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2019 Celtics Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2019 17:38:53 GMT -5
I was going off NBA Draft Room with Herro, listed him as having good length and 6'10'' wingspan. Which given his game and athletic ability was huge. I need to watch more tape on him now. He's smaller than Luke Kennard now and they seem like very similar players. Kinda hard for guys that are so so athletes that are small without good length to become big time players. He's also going to really struggle on D, unless he can play PG, which changes everything. NAW is much more a typical Danny pick, a great defensive player. Right now I'd have a hard time passing on him or Bol. Given the draft I'd take NAW over Washington right now. Much more depth at PF than guard in this draft www.nbadraftroom.com/p/luguentz-dort.htmlMy first dark horse candidate. Comp is a much bigger Marcus Smart and he's a better athlete, tested very well at the combine. Kinda reminds me of Rozier, in that he needs time, yet has very good upside. In small ball lineups he might be able to guard 1-4. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 20, 2019 20:56:29 GMT -5
NAW is also a good shooter. I'm torn when it comes to Bol, he's too goofy and I just don't see how he'd have an NBA offensive game. I've been watching some Dort highlights and yeah, I see that Marcus Smart build. I like it, like his game and like his upside. Not crazy about the fit, NAW could play point, isn't Dort more of a wing? And I mean WING, not possible stretch 4.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 20, 2019 22:28:50 GMT -5
Dart is a combo guard kinda like NAW, he played PG for a while this year. Kinda why I brought up Rozier, he's similar. Like a Rozier type PG is his ceiling and that would take time. Heck he kinda sounds like a Tony Allen, Rozier, Smart mix type player. I love the D and that he's a fearless driver, we need that. Maybe pick 22 is too high, but he's a Celtic type player. Given Danny's draft history I can't overlook guys like him.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 21, 2019 3:38:56 GMT -5
www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/05/one-way-the-boston-celtics-could-get-a-quality-replacement-if-kyrie-irving-leaves-in-free-agency.html?outputType=ampThis article talks about how Kyrie can help out the Celtics if he bolts to the Knicks. "In this scenario, Boston could sign-and-trade Kyrie Irving to a team with cap space. That team gets Irving, and sends back an exception in the amount of the first year of Irving’s contract, just over $32 million." "They could use it to acquire, as noted above, Mike Conley, who almost exactly fits into the exception. They could also split it up and use it to trade for Bradley Beal’s $27 million contract and a $5 million contract from another team. No salary-matching would be required. The only rule is the traded player or players would have to fit into the exception." "Why would another team do this? Boston would have to throw something of value in there as a thank you of sorts. The deal would be Irving plus a pick or a player so the other team gets a little something more of value. Irving would have to be on board with this. He gets nothing extra by agreeing to the sign-and-trade. The old rule of using a team’s ability to give its own free agents more money over an extra year has been changed and doesn’t apply to sign-and-trades anymore. Essentially, the acquiring team would do it because it got them a little something more than just Irving, and because he asked them to."
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 21, 2019 3:42:30 GMT -5
I would totally be on board with this and didn't even know this was a possible scenario. Throw in a Celtics first round pick if you need to.
Mike Conley is a big boy point guard. Bradley Beal is a big-time scorer. Sign me up. I'd take either.
Hard to envision a New York team helping a Boston team in any shape or form, but if they get something good out of it, then they should, unless they're dumb.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 21, 2019 3:51:02 GMT -5
I'll lay out what I think is going to happen and how I think Danny Ainge is thinking.
Option A) Acquire AD for as little as possible
Option B) Acquire AD for the highest price you're willing to pay
Possible Option C) Acquire AD for top dollar
Option D) After resign Iriving
Option E) Explore sign and trades, bring back Rozier, prepare for the draft. Stand pat.
I'm almost positive Danny Ainge has Kyrie's back 100 percent and wants him back badly. He's backed him with tweets as seen here-
Ainge is a gunslinger and a talent first guy, that's why I respect him a whole lot as a GM. See guy, go get star player. That's how I think Danny operates. He'll even try to sign a bad dude in Demarcus Cousins for a good mid level exception. (Last year) because he loves the talent. He also loves to rip off other teams in deals, so that's the only part I'm skeptical of.
This is what I hope is the maximum offer for AD-
Al Horford, Tatum, 2 first round Celtic picks (maybe the Sacramento pick instead of one of the first round picks).
Now is time for the waiting game to happen.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 21, 2019 5:12:50 GMT -5
Pedro I am pretty sure that no other team can sign Kyrie for any where near as much as the C's. So their are 50 million, I think, reasons why Kyrie would want to do this. And that is also whu the trading team would want to do it, if you want Kyrie this is the price.
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 7:19:25 GMT -5
Not sure if it happens here but I've seen even "experts" say it on Twitter so I'll mention it here. People are saying that Irving would have to leave 49 Million on the table to sign with another team. That's true if he signs a full term max deal. Per ESPN: BOS NEW TEAM 19-20: 32.7 32.7 20-21 35.3 34.3 21-22 37.9 36.0 22-23 40.5 37.6 23-24 43.1 TOTAL 189.7 140.6 There is your 49M difference. However, Kyrie has 8 years under his belt. At 10 years, there is a big jump for the starting salary on a max deal. So whatever team he signs with, it's likely to be a 2 year deal with an opt out on a 3rd. The difference after those 2 years is 1 million. If he decides to wait the full 3 years, the difference is 2.9 million. So if you see a comment that says he needs to leave 49 million on the table to sign with another team, that's not really true given his likely path. My guess is that folks on here know that but, again, I've seen it so much today already so I thought I'd just get it out of the way here (in case). Bringing back up. Danny CAN sign him for more than anyone else IF Kyrie wants to sign for the full term max. But I feel Irving will likely go the route so many other max FAs go (as outlined above). I also believe Sign and Trades limit to 4 years and hard cap the receiving team (not 100% on that though) |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2019 11:25:21 GMT -5
Are there limits or rules on opt-outs? Like why couldn't Irving sign for 4 years with an opt out after 2 years or 5 years with an opt-out after 2 years if he wanted?
I have noticed like every opt-out is the last year, but is that a rule or just common practice?
Irving has had more than his fair share of injuries. So he could certainly gamble for more money, but he might just want a long-term deal to avoid risk also. He's not LeBron or Durant who have been crazy healthy.
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 11:49:47 GMT -5
Not sure on the first part.
But, yes, uncertainty about his health would be the reason to sign a longer deal. But the reports that suggest he'd have to give up 49 million to sign elsewhere is misleading (or, at best, not the full story).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2019 13:39:57 GMT -5
I wanted to add that the Knicks need to make moves to sign two max free agents. They currently can't just do it. Like they have to release cap holds, stretch guys or trade them. For them to do that will gut the team. So a sign and trade could really benefit them and help them keep a few players if I understand the rules correctly, which frankly I'm not sure I fully do.
I will say I'd target Dennis Smith Jr. if they sign Irving. He's a horrible fit next to or playing with Irving. They could save money by getting cheaper first round picks, allowing them to keep more players and build better depth that isn't just minimum salary guys. The best part is they might really want a do over in a few years.
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Post by texs31 on May 21, 2019 14:08:16 GMT -5
They can sign a 7 Year Max guy (32.7) and a 10+ (38.15) - so Kyrie and KD - by only renouncing all FAs and non-guaranteed contracts.
Only DJS, Knox, Robinson and Ntilikina (along with the 4th pick) have guarantees and they total $15M. Add 6.4 for Dead Money already on the books and 6.3 for an incomplete roster and that totals 35.8 leaving them with 73.1 compared to the projected 109M Cap
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 21, 2019 18:37:01 GMT -5
That is the issue, is that a Championship caliber team? You'd have mid-level and vet minimum deals only to fill out the roster.
You'd also be waiving Trier and Dotson two guys you don't want to. Guys that would fit perfectly with Irving and frankly guys that have trade value to keep Ntilikina and Smith Jr. guys that don't come close to fitting with Irving. Hence if they are smart they make some trades.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 22, 2019 7:55:11 GMT -5
If the C's got Dennis Smith Jr for Kyrie I would be happy with that, certainly beats getting a goose egg.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 22, 2019 7:58:19 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on May 22, 2019 9:21:47 GMT -5
NY could also try and convince NO that the young guys (including, RJ Barrett) are the best package for AD. Up against the best offers, that may not be enough. However, if NO refuses to do business with LAL (and/or they don't like the offer) and if Danny holds back some assets with Kyrie going elsewhere, that could be a different story. Point is, the mechanics could work and they COULD have Kyrie, KD and AD. They'd also have exceptions to work with (1 + multiple minimum exceptions).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 22, 2019 11:38:35 GMT -5
Getting Davis makes depth even worse, you litterally need to cut everyone, but those five young guys. Then trade all of them for Davis. Your roster would be KD, Davis, Irving, Mid-level guy,and minimum level guys.
The key to our big three was keeping guys like Perkins, Rondo, and Allen. Then adding Posey and Brown.
As far as offers it's a really strong one in my opinion. It's just how do you build a team? You just got three guys not know for team play, so the roster around them is going to be crazy important. I'd want it to happen if I didn't really want Smith Jr., just to watch it as a Basketball fan.
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Post by texs31 on May 22, 2019 13:30:17 GMT -5
You dont believe the majority of the league would be perfectly happy to have that trio plus 1 MLE level player (or whatever exception it becomes when they exceed the cap) plus some combinations of 2nd rounders and vets taking minimum exceptions.
Is it a championship team in year 1? VERY unlikely. But it's a trio to build around for years to come. Especially with 2 of the 3 stars only being in mid 20s.
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Post by texs31 on May 22, 2019 14:07:59 GMT -5
Not sure how many people like the stats presented over at 82Games but, for those that like them, sure does seem like the source of the C's problem centered around 1 person.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 22, 2019 18:33:08 GMT -5
You dont believe the majority of the league would be perfectly happy to have that trio plus 1 MLE level player (or whatever exception it becomes when they exceed the cap) plus some combinations of 2nd rounders and vets taking minimum exceptions. Is it a championship team in year 1? VERY unlikely. But it's a trio to build around for years to come. Especially with 2 of the 3 stars only being in mid 30s. Every team is worried about the 9th man on the bench who sees zero playing time in the playoffs. Who needs Davis when you can have Ricky Rubio? You mean mid 20's? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 22, 2019 19:58:41 GMT -5
You dont believe the majority of the league would be perfectly happy to have that trio plus 1 MLE level player (or whatever exception it becomes when they exceed the cap) plus some combinations of 2nd rounders and vets taking minimum exceptions. Is it a championship team in year 1? VERY unlikely. But it's a trio to build around for years to come. Especially with 2 of the 3 stars only being in mid 30s. Every team is worried about the 9th man on the bench who sees zero playing time in the playoffs. Who needs Davis when you can have Ricky Rubio? You mean mid 20's? Age 31, 27, and 26 seasons. 9th person on the bench? You're talking about mid-level guy for one starter, and Veteran minimum for another starter. Then a whole bench of Veteran minimum guys and one pick 54 second round guy. They'd wish they could get guys like Rubio for the bench. It's your dream team, so I hope it happens. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 22, 2019 20:26:36 GMT -5
Not sure how many people like the stats presented over at 82Games but, for those that like them, sure does seem like the source of the C's problem centered around 1 person. Those stats are very reliable and yeah it's obvious that Morris and Rozier were hindrances to this team. It's downright inexcusable that Danny didn't make a trade. And I mean any trade, giving away Morris for a 2nd rounder would have been a plus. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 22, 2019 20:45:52 GMT -5
Every team is worried about the 9th man on the bench who sees zero playing time in the playoffs. Who needs Davis when you can have Ricky Rubio? You mean mid 20's? Age 31, 27, and 26 seasons. 9th person on the bench? You're talking about mid-level guy for one starter, and Veteran minimum for another starter. Then a whole bench of Veteran minimum guys and one pick 54 second round guy. They'd wish they could get guys like Rubio for the bench. It's your dream team, so I hope it happens. I think they would prefer those 3 versus Rubio. You can find depth from anywhere. Probably the easiest thing to do in the NBA is to fill the rest of the roster like that. The hardest thing to do is to find two top 5 players in the league and put them on the same team. I hope it doesn't happen, they'll be favorites for years and it'll be sickening because it's New York. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 22, 2019 20:59:24 GMT -5
Guess he is a great defender after all.
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Post by texs31 on May 22, 2019 22:32:08 GMT -5
If Rozier reads those stats then he should do one very important thing. Convince Daniel Theis to join him on his new team.
So strange.
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