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Post by azblue on Mar 9, 2021 9:17:16 GMT -5
There were 967 graduates from the Air Force Academy in 2020. None of the military academies have ever had the type of attrition suggested above (75%).
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Post by vermontsox1 on Mar 17, 2021 21:31:55 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 17, 2021 21:49:35 GMT -5
I repeat my point.....unless Song really wants a career as a Naval Officer (non pilot), he could have resigned after his junior years and had little to no commitment. My brother started at the Air Force Academy in a class of 4000 and at graduation there was only around 1000 remaining. Guys were cut for academics, could not pass basic training, could not officers training, or survival training.... Song has made it very clear that he wants both careers. I, for one, am unwilling to say that's beyond him. He seems laser focused, and that should serve him well as he works towards those goals.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Mar 18, 2021 3:48:27 GMT -5
I repeat my point.....unless Song really wants a career as a Naval Officer (non pilot), he could have resigned after his junior years and had little to no commitment. My brother started at the Air Force Academy in a class of 4000 and at graduation there was only around 1000 remaining. Guys were cut for academics, could not pass basic training, could not officers training, or survival training.... Song has made it very clear that he wants both careers. I, for one, am unwilling to say that's beyond him. He seems laser focused, and that should serve him well as he works towards those goals. I respect him for this choice. Have s said numerous times at least a 4y hitch in any service is good for any US citizen to teach and responsibilities and maturity, which many lack. Only did a 4y hitch myself, plus some reserve time later and most was close to "home", but the things taught by joining will never be gained in civilian life and the messages remembered forever.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Mar 21, 2021 18:35:36 GMT -5
Song has made it very clear that he wants both careers. I, for one, am unwilling to say that's beyond him. He seems laser focused, and that should serve him well as he works towards those goals. I respect him for this choice. Have s said numerous times at least a 4y hitch in any service is good for any US citizen to teach and responsibilities and maturity, which many lack. Only did a 4y hitch myself, plus some reserve time later and most was close to "home", but the things taught by joining will never be gained in civilian life and the messages remembered forever. Agreed, I did 1983 to 1989, military service would teach Americans responsibility and HUMILITY! One of my field training exercises was two weeks in a tent out in the field in January getting rained on. Most Americans could use an experience like that to teach them to ignore trivial annoyances and focus on what matters in life. My wife’s relatives would have a hard time leaving their LV purses behind. Lol
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Noah Song
Mar 21, 2021 18:37:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Soxfansince1971 on Mar 21, 2021 18:37:11 GMT -5
I respect him for this choice. Have s said numerous times at least a 4y hitch in any service is good for any US citizen to teach and responsibilities and maturity, which many lack. Only did a 4y hitch myself, plus some reserve time later and most was close to "home", but the things taught by joining will never be gained in civilian life and the messages remembered forever. Agreed, I did 1983 to 1989, military service would teach Americans responsibility and HUMILITY! One of my field training exercises was two weeks in a tent out in the field in January getting rained on. Most Americans could use an experience like that to teach them to ignore trivial annoyances and focus on what matters in life. My wife’s relatives would have a hard time leaving their LV purses behind. Lol I have my doubts that we will ever see Noah Song in a Boston Red Sox uniform!
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Post by waltmd on Mar 22, 2021 9:54:37 GMT -5
Agree, but there are no guarantees any pitching prospect makes the major leagues. The Sox surely took this into account when they drafted and signed Song.
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Post by jdog2020 on Mar 22, 2021 17:15:48 GMT -5
I'm a pacifist and like to play devil's advocate: There are many better options other than the military in terms of creating responsibility, awareness, maturity, and global awareness.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,980
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Post by jimoh on Mar 22, 2021 19:15:41 GMT -5
So this is a website to discuss whether serving in the military is a good thing?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Mar 22, 2021 19:35:11 GMT -5
Let's keep this discussion to Noah Song the baseball player. Thanks!
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Post by johnsilver52 on Mar 23, 2021 8:07:00 GMT -5
Let's keep this discussion to Noah Song the baseball player. Thanks! Which begs the question.. What is the reason he's not currently *playing* baseball? He's not on some pilgrimage to nowhereseville, seeing how some obscure tribe of who know what builds huts.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 23, 2021 9:51:46 GMT -5
Let's keep this discussion to Noah Song the baseball player. Thanks! Which begs the question.. What is the reason he's not currently *playing* baseball? He's not on some pilgrimage to nowhereseville, seeing how some obscure tribe of who know what builds huts. I went to officer candidate school. I can pretty much guarantee that an officer in any training program has no time to play anything.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 23, 2021 10:49:24 GMT -5
Let's keep this discussion to Noah Song the baseball player. Thanks! Which begs the question.. What is the reason he's not currently *playing* baseball? He's not on some pilgrimage to nowhereseville, seeing how some obscure tribe of who know what builds huts. I think the point was let's not veer into a discussion of the merits of the military writ large.
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Noah Song
Apr 30, 2021 13:59:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Addam603 on Apr 30, 2021 13:59:32 GMT -5
Not new, but an update.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 25, 2021 13:51:51 GMT -5
Bumping this post because a bunch of people are asking about Noah Song. He's at flight school. We're very unlikely to see him this year.
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Noah Song
Jun 26, 2021 8:13:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by philarhody on Jun 26, 2021 8:13:26 GMT -5
Here’s a question on Song: why is he still considered a prospect? It would seem to me that has chosen the military over a baseball career. Good on him. But I don’t see how he is still a prospect. This feels like everyone holding their breath to see grainy video of Ryan Westmoreland hitting off a tee. It ain’t happening.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 26, 2021 9:27:25 GMT -5
Here’s a question on Song: why is he still considered a prospect? It would seem to me that has chosen the military over a baseball career. Good on him. But I don’t see how he is still a prospect. This feels like everyone holding their breath to see grainy video of Ryan Westmoreland hitting off a tee. It ain’t happening. I'm not sure it's a case of him choosing the military over baseball. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought he was fulfilling his obligations and was planning to play baseball once that's over
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Noah Song
Jun 26, 2021 12:19:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by soxinsf on Jun 26, 2021 12:19:47 GMT -5
Here’s a question on Song: why is he still considered a prospect? It would seem to me that has chosen the military over a baseball career. Good on him. But I don’t see how he is still a prospect. This feels like everyone holding their breath to see grainy video of Ryan Westmoreland hitting off a tee. It ain’t happening. I'm not sure it's a case of him choosing the military over baseball. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought he was fulfilling his obligations and was planning to play baseball once that's over There has been a lot of speculation about the obligations that follow a full education at one of the military academies. My understanding, through a kid I coached who was recruited to and attended the AF Academy, is that the obligation runs six years. If anyone knows for sure, please chime in. And if it is six years, then maybe Song is no longer a prospect in real life terms.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 26, 2021 12:35:57 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 26, 2021 16:31:05 GMT -5
^This.
Look, the writing was on the wall on Westmoreland for a while - he legit needed to re-learn to walk after his first surgery. That he came back and got a GCL at-bat or whatever it was is still one of the craziest things I've seen happen in the system. But I mean, he wasn't "Ryan Westmoreland," if that makes sense. We didn't really say anything about it here because nobody wants to be the one who's like "hey, stop hoping for a miracle, he's not coming back." But we also weren't out there like "yeah he's going to come back and immediately rake, he's still a top prospect in the system." We felt the appropriate thing was to take him out of the rankings and said hey, if he does come back, we'll evaluate him then, but his situation is that he's recovering and focusing on that. (Not getting defensive, but wanted to address because it's a fair-ish comparison to bring up and I want to differentiate how we handle these sort of situations.)
It became clear that Song was going to have to put in his 2 years after he waited for months on a final decision on his waiver request, so withdrew it and went to flight school so he wasn't just sitting around on deskwork only to learn months later he'd have to do the same thing. It made sense. His 2 years are up but if he's in the middle of flight school, he might as well finish. There's no reason to think he won't then ask for a waiver and return to baseball.
Like vtSox said, if he graduates flight school and still doesn't come back, then yeah, he's not coming back. But we wouldn't still be ranking him if it were clear that he had chosen to serve in the military.
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Noah Song
Jun 26, 2021 18:57:16 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by soxinsf on Jun 26, 2021 18:57:16 GMT -5
^This. Look, the writing was on the wall on Westmoreland for a while - he legit needed to re-learn to walk after his first surgery. That he came back and got a GCL at-bat or whatever it was is still one of the craziest things I've seen happen in the system. But I mean, he wasn't "Ryan Westmoreland," if that makes sense. We didn't really say anything about it here because nobody wants to be the one who's like "hey, stop hoping for a miracle, he's not coming back." But we also weren't out there like "yeah he's going to come back and immediately rake, he's still a top prospect in the system." We felt the appropriate thing was to take him out of the rankings and said hey, if he does come back, we'll evaluate him then, but his situation is that he's recovering and focusing on that. (Not getting defensive, but wanted to address because it's a fair-ish comparison to bring up and I want to differentiate how we handle these sort of situations.) It became clear that Song was going to have to put in his 2 years after he waited for months on a final decision on his waiver request, so withdrew it and went to flight school so he wasn't just sitting around on deskwork only to learn months later he'd have to do the same thing. It made sense. His 2 years are up but if he's in the middle of flight school, he might as well finish. There's no reason to think he won't then ask for a waiver and return to baseball. Like vtSox said, if he graduates flight school and still doesn't come back, then yeah, he's not coming back. But we wouldn't still be ranking him if it were clear that he had chosen to serve in the military. Tough call but absolutely understandable re Westphal. I see the arguable parallel to Song but think the Song situation is not deserving of the same compassion, and would not think that dropping out of the top twenty was inappropriate.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Jun 26, 2021 19:25:28 GMT -5
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Post by jchang on Jun 26, 2021 19:28:34 GMT -5
I repeat my point.....unless Song really wants a career as a Naval Officer (non pilot), he could have resigned after his junior years and had little to no commitment. My brother started at the Air Force Academy in a class of 4000 and at graduation there was only around 1000 remaining. Guys were cut for academics, could not pass basic training, could not officers training, or survival training.... each year, about 1400 are offered appointments, about 1200 or so accept. Total student body of 4 classes is somewhat 4000. The number remaining for graduation is somewhere upper 900. this year was 1019. I was Navy in the early 90's. Late in the Reagan built up, the need for warm bodies was high. if you were in a selective program/community and tried to complete but failed, then you were sent to a different community. After the desert storm, with the cold war also over, the military was downsizing. If you failed, they might just discharge you, releasing you from any commitment. You were also out of job in a down economy
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 26, 2021 19:50:42 GMT -5
I think a little of the discussion was considering what happened that minor league baseball got cancelled for the year, in Songs case was fortunate because it chopped off one year of a mandatory two year commitment. In a crazy way it was a bright spot to me.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 26, 2021 23:43:10 GMT -5
There's logic to this. All we have to do is accept his own words. He said pitching was in his plans. If that's so, he'll pitch in the Sox' system. This site evaluates those players and he's been scouted so there's information about his talent. That means he should be listed as a prospect.
If you don't think he was serious, that's the only reason for removing him.
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