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Post by manfred on Aug 20, 2019 23:33:56 GMT -5
This thread was a train wreck 4 pages ago But, like, one of those funny prop train wrecks they used to stage in the early 20th century. Buster Keaton’s The General? One of the greatest movies ever. AND... germane to this thread: he broke his neck making it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 4:30:58 GMT -5
I'm going to walk away already showing the board what kind of a person you are. I honestly don't get this bickering and blocking people. Don't agree and move on. I actually enjoy Pedro's posts. This season is dead. I appreciate the staunch stances even if I disagree and honestly, I'm enjoying the debating. Thanks my dude. I appreciated the Math of the Sox thread. It was a very informative thread all year, and it was a thread that needed to be created after the Sox bad start. Despite it being wildly unpopular, you stuck with it and made it relevant. Despite me being called a troll, I do post a lot of good information from every source of the internet and radio I can find and I'll share it here if it's good. I have a different opinion than most that some people don't like, but it comes with heavy research on the baseball side (I think). Just wish the Sox were more relevant this year. Everytime they shown signs, they either got stomped the next week or now, they run into bad injuries like this one. I wish Sale a speedy recovery, and I'd prefer if his arm wasn't damaged, but we've seen this a thousand times. Everyone defends Chris Sale because he's a important piece of the Boston Red Sox, both now and in the future. I said the same things about Heath Hembree and Stephen Wright a week or 2 ago about their PRP injections, and no one said a peep about it. I don't know if anyone here even knew about their PRP injections until I posted on it. It hasn't been talked about (even on the injury update thread), and they were supposed to be important bullpen pieces this year. Now they might be non tender candidates.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2019 8:33:14 GMT -5
I mean, it's not unfathomable to think a player/organization might be not being completely honest about injuries. Remember when Gisele made a random comment about Brady having a concussion and then the immediate spin afterwards? I'm not saying Sale or the team is lying, but it's not unheard of in professional sports. With that said, we have no information to suggest otherwise. There's a big difference between what you say here and knowing for absolute fact that they are lying and that he is the only person right about anything despite having zero evidence of it.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2019 8:37:11 GMT -5
...Says the guy with 50 argumentative and completely made up posts since noon today Says you dude. Like don't comment if you have a problem with my posts. Remember the time I made crap up on the Steve Pearce thread and argued with 20 people to be proven right later? Remember the time when you argued for the Red Sox to just DFA Workman despite having everyone argue with you? Don't even start with that crap. Remember the time when you argued that Devers could not possibly improve defensively at 3B despite having everyone argue with you? Everyone has the perfect predictions when you selectively forget the ones that didn't work out.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 8:43:29 GMT -5
Says you dude. Like don't comment if you have a problem with my posts. Remember the time I made crap up on the Steve Pearce thread and argued with 20 people to be proven right later? Remember the time when you argued for the Red Sox to just DFA Workman despite having everyone argue with you? Don't even start with that crap. Remember the time when you argued that Devers could not possibly improve defensively at 3B despite having everyone argue with you? Everyone has the perfect predictions when you selectively forget the ones that didn't work out. Devers is still a negative DRS guy, and there was plenty of people suggesting the same thing about Workman back in spring training. Workman has shown plus velocity for the first time in 3-4 years after Tommy John surgery. But thanks for asserting yourself completely out of no where when everyone moved on 12 hours later.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 21, 2019 8:45:03 GMT -5
Posting 50 times that you've moved on is not moving on. When you stop feeling like you need to have the last word every time is how you move on.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 8:47:26 GMT -5
Posting 50 times that you've moved on is not moving on. When you stop feeling like you need to have the last word every time is how you move on. I mean, I did move on until 4 other people attacked my post 50 times later.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2019 8:47:38 GMT -5
Remember the time when you argued for the Red Sox to just DFA Workman despite having everyone argue with you? Don't even start with that crap. Remember the time when you argued that Devers could not possibly improve defensively at 3B despite having everyone argue with you? Everyone has the perfect predictions when you selectively forget the ones that didn't work out. Devers is still a negative DRS guy, and there was plenty of people suggesting the same thing about Workman back in spring training. Workman has shown plus velocity for the first time in 3-4 years after Tommy John surgery. But thanks for asserting yourself completely out of no where when everyone moved on 12 hours later. Oh I knew you'd change the Devers argument, Mr. Argumentative. Cannot possibly ever admit you've ever been wrong about a damn thing. The weakest possible characteristic about a person.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 8:48:46 GMT -5
Devers is still a negative DRS guy, and there was plenty of people suggesting the same thing about Workman back in spring training. Workman has shown plus velocity for the first time in 3-4 years after Tommy John surgery. But thanks for asserting yourself completely out of no where when everyone moved on 12 hours later. Oh I knew you'd change the Devers argument, Mr. Argumentative. Cannot possibly ever admit you've ever been wrong about a damn thing. The weakest possible characteristic about a person. I'm a great person Mr. Sunshine. I've admitted to being wrong plenty of times here too.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 21, 2019 9:06:10 GMT -5
Sam Kennedy made a couple of interesting remarks this morning. On one hand, he said, "we hope Sale will heal and get better" which to me has a gloomy undertone. If it's just inflammation, why wouldn't he? Seems like an unnecessary statement if it's minor.
He also said not to completely rule out Sale returning this year. At the very least, it shows they're cautiously optimistic that he will be fine.
I really hope we do not see Sale pitch again this year under any circumstance.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2019 9:09:43 GMT -5
Oh I knew you'd change the Devers argument, Mr. Argumentative. Cannot possibly ever admit you've ever been wrong about a damn thing. The weakest possible characteristic about a person. I'm a great person Humble, too.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 9:14:06 GMT -5
I can be at times, other times like when you're being literally attacked, then not so much.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2019 9:20:44 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2019 9:45:37 GMT -5
I can be at times, other times like when you're being literally attacked, then not so much. That's a little bit like saying you've got your drinking problem under control, except for when there's alcohol around. Acting well counts the most in situations when you are tempted to act poorly.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 21, 2019 9:47:54 GMT -5
I can be at times, other times like when you're being literally attacked, then not so much.
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Sale to IL
Aug 21, 2019 10:04:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 21, 2019 10:04:55 GMT -5
It's just weird he said that. So either he has proven himself a liar or he has completely forgotten 2014 (took me awhile to find the quote, almost gave up because I thought I might have misheard it on 98.5). weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bradford/chris-sale-injury-update-red-sox-ace-says-there-no-tearEdit: I don't want to jump into saying he's lying about this. I'm saying it shouldn't be shocking if he were and I wouldn't chastise a poster for not believing any professional athlete about injuries. Not just Sale in particular. We have no information other than he says, "yeah" when asked if there's no tear, the organization has a modicum of hope he pitches again this year, he got a PRP to deal with the inflammation, and Dr. Andrews has made no indication that surgery is necessary. Edit 2: Could also be option c where it was misreported in 2014 and he did something else.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 21, 2019 10:12:55 GMT -5
Remember the time when you argued for the Red Sox to just DFA Workman despite having everyone argue with you? Don't even start with that crap. Remember the time when you argued that Devers could not possibly improve defensively at 3B despite having everyone argue with you? Everyone has the perfect predictions when you selectively forget the ones that didn't work out. Devers is still a negative DRS guy, and there was plenty of people suggesting the same thing about Workman back in spring training. Workman has shown plus velocity for the first time in 3-4 years after Tommy John surgery. But thanks for asserting yourself completely out of no where when everyone moved on 12 hours later. Dever's has really improved since they called up Chavis. I don't know why, but he just stopped commiting so many errors. I've had my worries but he looks very good, even seems to have lost some weight. If the last like 70 games are the true Dever's he's an above average guy at 3B. Where is Workman's elite fastball? Per fangraphs 92.5, 91.6, and 93.2 the last three years. 93.2 is likely below average for a reliever in today's game. What he is doing is throwing less fastballs and more curve balls, FB last three years 51.2%, 38.9%, and 33.2%, curve balls 23.7%, 36.7%, and this year 47.4%. Three years ago he was throwing his fastball and cut fastball over 75% of the time, now he is throwing his curve almost 50% of the time. That is the huge difference in Workman, he evolved as a pitcher, not he regained extra velocity to an elite level. The little he gained is likely because he is throwing so many less per game. It looks better because hitters aren't sitting on it like they used too. I'm all for arguing a point you really believe in, but if you want to always throw around when you're right, you need to admit when you're wrong. Us regular posters will most times be right just as much as we are wrong, we post that much and debate that many things.
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Sale to IL
Aug 21, 2019 10:20:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 10:20:25 GMT -5
Devers is still a negative DRS guy, and there was plenty of people suggesting the same thing about Workman back in spring training. Workman has shown plus velocity for the first time in 3-4 years after Tommy John surgery. But thanks for asserting yourself completely out of no where when everyone moved on 12 hours later. Dever's has really improved since they called up Chavis. I don't know why, but he just stopped commiting so many errors. I've had my worries but he looks very good, even seems to have lost some weight. If the last like 70 games are the true Dever's he's an above average guy at 3B. Where is Workman's elite fastball? Per fangraphs 92.5, 91.6, and 93.2 the last three years. 93.2 is likely below average for a reliever in today's game. What he is doing is throwing less fastballs and more curve balls, FB last three years 51.2%, 38.9%, and 33.2%, curve balls 23.7%, 36.7%, and this year 47.4%. Three years ago he was throwing his fastball and cut fastball over 75% of the time, now he is throwing his curve almost 50% of the time. That is the huge difference in Workman, he evolved as a pitcher, not he regained extra velocity to an elite level. The little he gained is likely because he is throwing so many less per game. It looks better because hitters aren't sitting on it like they used too. I'm all for arguing a point you really believe in, but if you want to always throw around when you're right, you need to admit when you're wrong. Us regular posters will most times be right just as much as we are wrong, we post that much and debate that many things. -I never admit I'm always right. -I never said Workman had a elite fastball, I said he has shown plus velocity. Meaning, he has shown his best velocity in years. He's topping out at 95 mph this year. He hasn't done this since, what, 2013? -Devers has improved to a degree, but DRS suggests he still is a below average defender. I was wrong about Workman. He came back strong with a better fastball years later after Tommy John surgery. The better fastball is what helped his secondaries. Devers still might not be a great third baseman ever, but the Sox will probably stick with him at 3rd base to keep him happy, which I didn't agree with before and probably now. I would like to see better defense out of third base. Add- www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=519443&b_hand=-1&gFilt=&pFilt=FA|SI|FC|CU|SL|CS|KN|CH|FS|SB&time=month&minmax=ci&var=mph&s_type=2&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=08/21/2019Wrong initially about him topping out at 95 mph. I guess he's done that a few times in the years past, but his average velocity is literally the best we have ever seen from Workman, even before Tommy John Surgery, ever since May started. This is why he's better this year and looks like pre Tommy John surgery Brandon Workman. Second add- Go check out Workman's average velocity in 2018. It was clocked in at 91 mph all year. That's the biggest reason why he is bad that year and why I suggested that he could lose a roster spot at some point before the season started.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2019 11:04:39 GMT -5
See, he's right, even when he's wrong. Workman is great this year because of his fastball, not the drastically increased use of his curve ball, which has always been plus. No one ever could have seen a reason to not DFA him before.
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Sale to IL
Aug 21, 2019 11:09:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 21, 2019 11:09:34 GMT -5
See, he's right, even when he's wrong. Workman is great this year because of his fastball, not the drastically increased use of his curve ball, which has always been plus. No one ever could have seen a reason to not DFA him before. No. There's reasons to suggest why he wasn't good in 2018. He could have increased his curveball usage last year also. He could have still been bad, because there's no advantage to having a bad fastball. The real reason why Workman is better is probably because of the increased average velocity and increased curveball usage, but you know, you don't like my opinion. So whatever. Add- Admitted I was wrong, like 2 or 3 seperate times in the last post. Fully admitted. No step backs or nothing.
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Post by manfred on Aug 21, 2019 11:39:35 GMT -5
Nothin’ like a few pals getting together to talk baseball.
Maybe we can bring the temperature down by switching to gun control or the border?
Please: I’m kidding.
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Post by danredhawk on Aug 21, 2019 11:40:02 GMT -5
I would love to ask the board though, what is worse, calling people obligatory names and insulting people or a person who has a different opinion, who just posts too much? One seems harmless. The other isn't. It is absolutely classic that you think having opinions is what bothers other posters. You’re complete lack of self-awareness is ASTOUNDING... —- Here’s an opportunity for personal growth. A chance for a mea culpa on the Bullpen/Trade Deadline. Remember, no one took issue with any other posters who wanted a trade or thought a trade was needed or thought the bullpen might struggle down the stretch. The only issue was with posters who KNEW what the outcome (in terms of both the Sox pen and those they could have acquired) would certainly be, advocated for their own superior knowledge of the situation, claimed not making a trade was GM malpractice and made such claims MANY times over... Can you now admit that while wishing for a trade at the time, not making one has not hurt the Sox thus far and the bullpen has been a pleasant surprise despite your misgivings? No one would hold it against you, but you would have to recognize that you’re not a soothsayer... Tough decision. Can you do it?
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Post by ramireja on Aug 21, 2019 11:41:25 GMT -5
So we're clearly off the topic of Sale here (have been for a while) and its the usual suspects derailing the thread. When you say you're done arguing....be done. Do it for the sake of the thread and the readers (not just posters) who come here for informative conversation.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 21, 2019 12:59:50 GMT -5
No, seriously. I just deleted four posts that had nothing to do with the topic.
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gerry
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Posts: 1,664
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Post by gerry on Aug 21, 2019 13:01:54 GMT -5
So we're clearly off the topic of Sale here (have been for a while) and its the usual suspects derailing the thread. When you say you're done arguing....be done. Do it for the sake of the thread and the readers (not just posters) who come here for informative conversation. Will do. Literally getting attacked by now 4 posters. Freaking ridiculous. 7 posters can't stand my opinion on the board. Made that definitive the past two days. Pedro. One last try. It’s not that you have an opinion, it’s that you completely dominate the conversation trying to prove, over and over, that your opinion is the only correct one. And the more evidence that comes out that your opinion may not be correct, the more you insist, and keep insisting, over and over and over and over, that your opinion is the correct one. You are not a victim here. Nor are your posts without merit. But, like everyone’s posts, they are not Gospel truth. Over the past year you have shown increased understanding of metrics and the capacity for finding good information with research. You have, indeed, lately found and posted interesting information you have shared with the board. This shows hard work. I admire that. If you don’t mind my saying so, you seem to have become a more complete student of the game, which is appreciated by all. But you have to acknowledge that this board is full of savvy, experienced, often elite students of the game. You need to respect them as much as you want, even demand, their respect.[br Unfortunately, your posting “style” is to beat anyone with opposing opinions into the ground. As evidence of this, I present your thousands of posts in a relatively short time, so very many of them repetitively disrespectful. I can understand members getting tired of this behavior. No, you aren’t the only one caught in these escalating arguments, but you are absolutely part of the reason they continue. For example, just hours ago you said you will leave the board, but you have been the most dominant and most argumentative poster since you said that. Members of this board have too much baseball smarts, experience and integrity to allow you to do that. This is a platform for enlightened discussion, not circular arguments. Please stop trying to be right all the time. No one ever is. Thanks for listening, Pedro, and please don’t argue about this, lolol.
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