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2019-20 Boston Celtics Season
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 23, 2020 22:27:33 GMT -5
Boy I guess you could say they turned their SEASON over
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 23, 2020 22:33:10 GMT -5
They showed up to a must-won game with zero heart, and proceeded to not use their brains either. Really a pitiful series by this team, there’s no other word to describe it.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 23, 2020 22:37:09 GMT -5
It’s also funny that Marcus was yelling at teammates in the locker room after Game 2 when he’s straight up stunk all series. But when you’re allowed to take bad shots without being held accountable, that will continue to happen.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 23, 2020 22:54:52 GMT -5
It’s also funny that Marcus was yelling at teammates in the locker room after Game 2 when he’s straight up stunk all series. But when you’re allowed to take bad shots without being held accountable, that will continue to happen. He needs to stop with the transition pull up 3. I can live with everything else, but this needs to stop. Also, Ainge needs to get a fucking big already. Theis is nice and all, but we can't continue to get worked on the glass like that.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Sept 24, 2020 0:40:39 GMT -5
Unfortunate because we could have swept the Heat. Herro with 35+ is laughable lol credit to him but you don't deserve to win if you let a 20 year old do that to you. The refs even tried to hand us this game at the end.
Love Smart but dang that silly offense can be annoying.
Would be pleasantly surprised if we could pull this off but not expecting much. Am I crazy for wanting 20-25 Grant Williams minutes instead of 12-12-4 of Wanamaker/Timelord/Semi? Feel like he would be a way better fit defensively against Bam/Herro...
Or maybe even cutting Theis Minutes by 10 if you want to keep Timelords
Whatever happens we have the brightest future in the East and this season exceeded expectations for me.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 24, 2020 12:24:13 GMT -5
How do you rate D? Is it 50% how you defend players vs 50 team? Is it 75% vs 25%? For me it has to be at minimum 51% vs 49% because being able to take away players with man on man D makes a bigger impact. Jaylen Brown taking away Siakam makes a bigger impact than a heady smart player team D player. Why do you act like Hayward can’t guard guys one on one? That’s just not accurate. We were getting crushed in game 2 because players weren’t rotating correctly on the screen and roles. Hayward’s ability to do that is big. So i can’t give you a percentage - but Hayward fits really well defensively with this team. He’s switchable because he can guard multiple spots as well. I don't, he's just an averagish type one on one defender. He tries hard, is very smart and does play good team D. Yet you can attack him. Something no one says about Brown, Smart, Tatum or Theis. Like he's much closer to Grant Williams than the other defenders on this team. It's why I asked about how you grade D because you rate him a very good defender. Which for me can't happen if people can attack you one on one. You're not putting Hayward on Butler at the end of games.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 24, 2020 13:20:17 GMT -5
It’s also funny that Marcus was yelling at teammates in the locker room after Game 2 when he’s straight up stunk all series. But when you’re allowed to take bad shots without being held accountable, that will continue to happen. He needs to stop with the transition pull up 3. I can live with everything else, but this needs to stop. Also, Ainge needs to get a fucking big already. Theis is nice and all, but we can't continue to get worked on the glass like that. I wasn't able to watch the game, yet the box score kinda shows the same old issues TOs 19 vs 8, cost us the game. We out rebounded them in the game with Theis and Williams having 13 boards in 42 minutes to Bam's 12 in 41 minutes. What am I missing?
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 24, 2020 15:56:21 GMT -5
I wasn't able to watch the game, yet the box score kinda shows the same old issues TOs 19 vs 8, cost us the game. We out rebounded them in the game with Theis and Williams having 13 boards in 42 minutes to Bam's 12 in 41 minutes. What am I missing? Miami getting a lot of key rebounds in the 4th and Bam generally abusing Theis or Williams. I've seen a lot of Celtics fans saying Stevens messed up by not playing Timelord more, but Timelord absolutely blows on switches so Miami would have mauled us. Anyway you look at it, we need to get a better big to take that next step. Theis showed glimpses of being that guy, but he's having a very bad series.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 24, 2020 16:35:28 GMT -5
I wasn't able to watch the game, yet the box score kinda shows the same old issues TOs 19 vs 8, cost us the game. We out rebounded them in the game with Theis and Williams having 13 boards in 42 minutes to Bam's 12 in 41 minutes. What am I missing? Miami getting a lot of key rebounds in the 4th and Bam generally abusing Theis or Williams. I've seen a lot of Celtics fans saying Stevens messed up by not playing Timelord more, but Timelord absolutely blows on switches so Miami would have mauled us. Anyway you look at it, we need to get a better big to take that next step. Theis showed glimpses of being that guy, but he's having a very bad series. Don the box score doesn't show that, we out rebounded them 10 to 8 in the fourth, Theis only played seven minutes and Bam had four points. We shot 52.6% vs 48% for the Heat, yet we had seven TOs, they had one and Herro went off for 17 points on 6 for 9 shooting. On a side note Robert Williams was plus ten in that game. It kinda looks like the series we just keep turning it over and they don't. We play like crap in the 4th, they play awesome.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 24, 2020 20:57:24 GMT -5
Don the box score doesn't show that, we out rebounded them 10 to 8 in the fourth, Theis only played seven minutes and Bam had four points. We shot 52.6% vs 48% for the Heat, yet we had seven TOs, they had one and Herro went off for 17 points on 6 for 9 shooting. On a side note Robert Williams was plus ten in that game. It kinda looks like the series we just keep turning it over and they don't. We play like crap in the 4th, they play awesome. You said it yourself bro, you didn't watch the game. Theis was atrocious and while Timelord had a positive plus/minus, he can be exploited if Miami wants to. If we plan to guard guys like Bam, Giannis, Embiid and heck even KD when he's back since he should be slower, we need a better big. Not that Theis isn't good, but he really is backup good.
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Post by tizzle on Sept 24, 2020 22:08:18 GMT -5
Don't know if it's approbate to make a comment in here about the other series, but man, this is why I despise NBA officials, and why it so weakens my desire to follow the NBA. The refs are trying so hard to give this game to LA. It's ridiculous.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 24, 2020 22:56:57 GMT -5
Don't know if it's approbate to make a comment in here about the other series, but man, this is why I despise NBA officials, and why it so weakens my desire to follow the NBA. The refs are trying so hard to give this game to LA. It's ridiculous. The non call on Lebron on that Murray drive late in the 4th broke me. There's no way this is regular incompetence, this shit has to be rigged.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Sept 25, 2020 3:02:07 GMT -5
Don't know if it's approbate to make a comment in here about the other series, but man, this is why I despise NBA officials, and why it so weakens my desire to follow the NBA. The refs are trying so hard to give this game to LA. It's ridiculous. Yeah its absolutely shameless...they don't even try to hide it anymore. The refs were trying to give us the last game and I don't even like that. Not only can it change the outcome, but it can completely unnecessarily change the flow of a game and those types of games are much less watchable.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 11:24:21 GMT -5
Don the box score doesn't show that, we out rebounded them 10 to 8 in the fourth, Theis only played seven minutes and Bam had four points. We shot 52.6% vs 48% for the Heat, yet we had seven TOs, they had one and Herro went off for 17 points on 6 for 9 shooting. On a side note Robert Williams was plus ten in that game. It kinda looks like the series we just keep turning it over and they don't. We play like crap in the 4th, they play awesome. You said it yourself bro, you didn't watch the game. Theis was atrocious and while Timelord had a positive plus/minus, he can be exploited if Miami wants to. If we plan to guard guys like Bam, Giannis, Embiid and heck even KD when he's back since he should be slower, we need a better big. Not that Theis isn't good, but he really is backup good. Don I've watched every minute besides one game, did Bam all of a sudden develop scoring moves in the post? All series he's scored on put backs and dunks basically or getting to the line. More times than not they drive, get our center to cut off the drive, Bam cuts to the rim and gets a dunk because of the players not rotating or they got Kemba matched up against him. Not Bam going at Theis or our centers in general. I have zero issues rolling with Theis, Williams and Kanter next year at center. I don't see that as our big issue. Not when we can't play well in the 4th quarter of games and keep turning it over game after game. I certainly don't see how Bam's 4 points and 3 rebounds killed us, compared to 7 turnovers and 17 points by Herro. You could trade for Embiid and you'll still lose games if you turnover the Basketball seven times in the 4th quarter and 19 times overall. I wouldn't get down on Robert Williams either. He's 22 years old, has only played 61 regular season games, was very raw when we drafted him. Yet is already ten times better than he was. If you want a guy like Bam, he's it. He just needs more experience. Bam only became this player this year after 223 regular season games played. The big jump was year two to year three.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 11:27:27 GMT -5
The Celtics just need to play better, I still believe they are the more talented team. They just have to cut the turnovers.
We just ran into a team playing perfect and better than there parts and we are doing the opposite. We've seen the Nuggets come back from 3-1 already this year.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 25, 2020 11:53:41 GMT -5
I have zero issues rolling with Theis, Williams and Kanter next year at center. I don't see that as our big issue. Not when we can't play well in the 4th quarter of games and keep turning it over game after game. Actually I think that's a symptom of the other issue with the current Celtics team, lack of depth. Guys are flat out exhausted in the clutch time.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 12:10:57 GMT -5
I'd buy that in the Raptors series, I don't see it last game. Tatum 39 minutes Butler 39 minutes, Dragic 39 minutes Brown 40 minutes, Walker 34 minutes Herro 36 minutes, Smart 36 Crowder 31, Theis 30 minutes Bam 41. Hayward gives you good depth and the Heat's main players played about equal minutes.
I also don't buy it because Tatum and Brown are much younger than Butler and Dragic. If anything you should have the advantage given the minutes last game.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 25, 2020 12:40:35 GMT -5
I'd buy that in the Raptors series, I don't see it last game. Tatum 39 minutes Butler 39 minutes, Dragic 39 minutes Brown 40 minutes, Walker 34 minutes Herro 36 minutes, Smart 36 Crowder 31, Theis 30 minutes Bam 41. Hayward gives you good depth and the Heat's main players played about equal minutes. I also don't buy it because Tatum and Brown are much younger than Butler and Dragic. If anything you should have the advantage given the minutes last game. Ok then, what is the problem? What is the hurdle we cannot clear? And be specific, we're getting outplayed in the 4th often, why is that?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 14:04:51 GMT -5
The biggest issue? Easy coaching, ever since the brilliant Nick Nurse starting using zone and other types of usually not used D to stop the Celtics normal offense things haven't been good.
It's not even a huge dig at Stevens because he's going against two great coaches that have won Championship's. Yet the Heat coach is getting his players to play at the 99% mark, Steven's is getting his guys to play at the 90% mark.
I didn't watch the game, yet I'm going to assume the Heat switched between zone, cover two and having two guys at the tree point line pressuring our ball handlers. It takes away our normal offense and Steven's doesn't have his team ready to handle it. He makes a switch and the Heat switch it up again. He's always reacting to what the other team does. He tries zone and the Heat are 100% ready and destroy it. That's just coaching, one team seems to be able to run different offenses and defenses flawlessly, and we can't.
I have a very hard time blaming experience when we have more or young players when a rookie just dominated the 4th quarter for the Heat.
You could say we don't have clutch players, yet I don't buy that for one second. It's much more what the other teams are doing than our guys just not being good enough. They aren't ready for it and don't have experience using an offense to beat it. Steven's needs to spend all next year getting his team ready to attack multiple different defenses and not be trying to teach them on the fly in the playoffs. He needs to get his players to play under control and cut down the TOs.
Stat of the day, the Heat had two TOs in the second half last game, Smart had three in the 4th quarter. The type of crap were you tip your hat to the Heat coach because he's been darn near perfect. With a ton of praise going to Nurse who gave the league a blue print of how to really mess with us. Yet it's still the Heat coach saving that for critical spots, not using it too much so the Celtics learn how to beat it. Brilliant coaching by the Heat, I really can't say enough about how good it has been and how ready he has those guys for everything you throw at them.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 25, 2020 14:54:29 GMT -5
So, it's not the personnel, it's the coach, right? Boy I can't wait to see Stevens getting fired so you guys can get your wish and finally get some relief as we replace him with a middling guy. Don't get me wrong, the team will tank and we'll have to trade Tatum and Brown to rebuild again, but at least you guys will be satisfied.
I legit wonder if Milwaukee fans are like that with Budenholzer or heck even Utah with Snyder. And Stevens has reached more Conference Finals than these guys combined.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 15:34:41 GMT -5
So, it's not the personnel, it's the coach, right? Boy I can't wait to see Stevens getting fired so you guys can get your wish and finally get some relief as we replace him with a middling guy. Don't get me wrong, the team will tank and we'll have to trade Tatum and Brown to rebuild again, but at least you guys will be satisfied. I legit wonder if Milwaukee fans are like that with Budenholzer or heck even Utah with Snyder. And Stevens has reached more Conference Finals than these guys combined. Who wants to fire him? Coaches can grow and get better, just look at the Heat coach. He's much better now than he was during the LeBron era in my opinion. You can have Stevens needs to be better and he's still one of the better coaches that I want around long-term. The Great Bill took years and years to become the coach he is. I don't see why if we think Stevens is being out coached by a great coach it means we have to fire him or the it's not the coach it's 100% the players. Who has the more talented roster? Don you make it sound like you think this is mostly because the Heat just have better players. For me it's just the Heat coach has his guys playing darn near perfect and we aren't coming close to that.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 25, 2020 17:55:51 GMT -5
Who wants to fire him? Coaches can grow and get better, just look at the Heat coach. He's much better now than he was during the LeBron era in my opinion. You can have Stevens needs to be better and he's still one of the better coaches that I want around long-term. The Great Bill took years and years to become the coach he is. I don't see why if we think Stevens is being out coached by a great coach it means we have to fire him or the it's not the coach it's 100% the players. Who has the more talented roster? Don you make it sound like you think this is mostly because the Heat just have better players. For me it's just the Heat coach has his guys playing darn near perfect and we aren't coming close to that. A lot of Celtics fans want to fire Stevens right now, others think next season should be his last one to "prove" he can do it. You didn't advocate firing him, but there's this ominous undertone about his work like he's getting outcoached badly. He's not. He had his team in the position to win every single game in this series. They haven't won. Some of that is his fault, but he's not the main culprit. The Heat has a more cohesive team, they have more options then we do. With Hayward not looking 100% and Kemba being really up and down, Boston has to rely their entire game on two guys who are 22 and 23 years old. That's not how you're supposed to chip. Boston has terrible depth and no reliable offensive contribution from their big men, that's to me a more tangible flaw than anything Stevens has done. Even not playing lights out, they're dead even with the Heat in points this series. These teams have scored exactly the same amount of points. You can look at that and say hey they failed to deliver in the clutch, I look at that and see randomness.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 25, 2020 19:59:24 GMT -5
Lol stick a fork in this team. Zero fight.
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Post by tizzle on Sept 25, 2020 20:17:58 GMT -5
I hope we can win this one, just so I can see what other white boy Miami pulls out of their ass to kill us next game.
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Post by tizzle on Sept 25, 2020 20:46:24 GMT -5
These refs can just go to hell.
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