redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 22, 2020 16:28:20 GMT -5
So it's using video to decode signs instead of letting players figuring it out themslves is the entire stink over? Cora not getting any fines and further punishment is quite a surprise. Is he going to get black listed from MLB teams? I wouldn't think he'd get black listed. I think it's obvious that the Astros front office condoned an atmosphere of cheating and Cora obliged. Yet when he went to Boston in a higher profile role, apparently, he wasn't involved in this situation, so I'd think it's just a matter of time before somebody hires him (and Hinch for that matter). I hope that somebody is the Red Sox. He was a very good young manager who could continue to improve given more opportunity. The Red Sox didn't really want to part with him in the first place. I know the Sox removed "interim" from Roenicke's title, but it's not hard to imagine that if the Sox have a 47-53 season this year or something like that it could only be a matter of time before Cora is back.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 22, 2020 16:51:58 GMT -5
Wow we will now be labeled cheaters for something you know every team did.
Cora gets no Punishment? Umm how could that be? He obviously knew about it and it's his job to manage his coaches and players.
Just looks like they thought this was an Astros type thing and when it wasn't they weren't going to just walk away. Yet now every casual fan will label us just like the Astros even though it's not even close to the same thing.
Can anyone really say with a straight face that all teams weren't doing this? I mean MLB put people in the replay room during the playoffs two years ago!
I'm sorry but I want no part of Cora again, way to tarnish the greatest season I've ever seen!
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Post by taftreign on Apr 22, 2020 17:15:03 GMT -5
From what I read I thought it sounded more that Watkins used video to decode signs and provided the information in the pregame info.
Manfred said he doesn’t believe Cora or the players specifically knew the information came from video decoding and wouldn’t have held them accountable even if the players were subject to discipline.
Also stresses the front office had repeatedly informed the staff and players about the requisite warnings about using video in game.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Apr 22, 2020 17:50:11 GMT -5
From what I read I thought it sounded more that Watkins used video to decode signs and provided the information in the pregame info. That was his legal job as an advanced scout. The report says 1 player out of 34 interviewed said they saw him amend his pregame report during a game as he was the replay room operator. Manfred notes having an advanced scout also be a replay room operator is kind of a conflict, but a lot of teams do it this way. (gee, I wonder why)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 22, 2020 18:42:22 GMT -5
Manfred, in requiring the Red Sox to forfeit a draft pick, said, “the club must be held accountable, particularly since the club may have benefited from Watkins’ conduct.” Manfred said he did not consider imposing discipline on players, just as he did not discipline any Astros players.mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-penalties-announced/
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 22, 2020 19:19:40 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 22, 2020 19:31:57 GMT -5
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 Chaim Bloom on if he would rehire Alex Cora: “All reasons we parted ways is still the case.” #RedSox
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 22, 2020 19:43:56 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo @chriscotillo · 48m Red Sox marathon conference call has wrapped up. Key takeaways: * Not budging on a Cora return * Roenicke contract up after 2020 * Apologized for breaking a rule * Wouldn't acknowledge Watkins was a scapegoat * Watkins not fired
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,984
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Post by jimoh on Apr 22, 2020 20:57:19 GMT -5
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 Chaim Bloom on if he would rehire Alex Cora: “All reasons we parted ways is still the case.” #RedSox Would a Yale Classics major say "all reasons ... is"?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 22, 2020 21:45:37 GMT -5
Red Sox President Sam Kennedy issued the following statement in the wake of the report: “As an organization, we strive for 100% compliance with the rules. MLB’s investigation concluded that in isolated instances during the 2018 regular season, sign sequences were decoded through the use of live game video rather than through permissible means. “MLB acknowledged the front office’s extensive efforts to communicate and enforce the rules and concluded that Alex Cora, the coaching staff, and most of the players did not engage in, nor were they aware of, any violations. Regardless, these rule violations are unacceptable. We apologize to our fans and Major League Baseball, and accept the Commissioner’s ruling.” mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-penalties-announced/
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Post by cheers on Apr 22, 2020 22:12:14 GMT -5
Glad this drama is behind us, so we can focus on baseball. Oh s*&t, no baseball. Is there any way to subscribe to Korean baseball?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 22, 2020 22:18:51 GMT -5
From what I read I thought it sounded more that Watkins used video to decode signs and provided the information in the pregame info. That was his legal job as an advanced scout. The report says 1 player out of 34 interviewed said they saw him amend his pregame report during a game as he was the replay room operator. Manfred notes having an advanced scout also be a replay room operator is kind of a conflict, but a lot of teams do it this way. (gee, I wonder why) Yeah. I don't know that Watkins was scapegoated, but I also think the punishment is pretty overboard for the actual conduct described. It does say that he was adamant he didn't do anything wrong - one wonders if he came forward, hat in hand, if they'd have gone a bit easier on him. The report explains that the problem he was faced with was if he did the work pregame, then picked up something on video that made clear he wasn't correct, he was put in a position where he either had to update his data or give the players something that was wrong (or let them continue using something that was wrong). He's put in a no-win situation there. One-year suspension here feels brutal. Wouldn't surprise me if Danny Watkins gets a little extra loyalty bonus this year or something, wink wink nudge nudge.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 22, 2020 22:41:31 GMT -5
That was his legal job as an advanced scout. The report says 1 player out of 34 interviewed said they saw him amend his pregame report during a game as he was the replay room operator. Manfred notes having an advanced scout also be a replay room operator is kind of a conflict, but a lot of teams do it this way. (gee, I wonder why) Yeah. I don't know that Watkins was scapegoated, but I also think the punishment is pretty overboard for the actual conduct described. It does say that he was adamant he didn't do anything wrong - one wonders if he came forward, hat in hand, if they'd have gone a bit easier on him. The report explains that the problem he was faced with was if he did the work pregame, then picked up something on video that made clear he wasn't correct, he was put in a position where he either had to update his data or give the players something that was wrong (or let them continue using something that was wrong). He's put in a no-win situation there. One-year suspension here feels brutal. Wouldn't surprise me if Danny Watkins gets a little extra loyalty bonus this year or something, wink wink nudge nudge. Watkins wasn't fired. I'm guessing he will get whatever pay percentage the rest of the Sox staff gets.No winks needed.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 23, 2020 6:04:34 GMT -5
It strains credibility that Watkins acted alone and that many within the Red Sox management team knew or should have known about this sign stealing scheme. It makes me wonder if someone within the Red Sox told MLB that they had evidence of many other MLB teams doing it which could have been used as leverage to limit the punishment.
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Post by artfuldodger on Apr 23, 2020 6:13:16 GMT -5
I wonder why the team is more adamant about keeping Cora away than the fans.
The punishment seems worse than the announced offenses. Do you believe that the agreement was for the Red Sox to accept the punishment and the Commissioner would not reveal the offenses that may more implicate the team or players.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Apr 23, 2020 7:17:44 GMT -5
I wonder why the team is more adamant about keeping Cora away than the fans. The punishment seems worse than the announced offenses. Do you believe that the agreement was for the Red Sox to accept the punishment and the Commissioner would not reveal the offenses that may more implicate the team or players. I agree with this. There has to be something that MLB isn't telling us. Otherwise, the league taking a 2nd round pick makes no sense.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 23, 2020 7:35:05 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 23, 2020 7:47:13 GMT -5
Cora is my second favorite Sox manager after Francona. That said, the Sox would be crazy to bring back anybody associated with the 2018 Astros.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 23, 2020 7:49:13 GMT -5
Ok this answers the question raised by the comment attributed to Bloom and highlighted by you and jimoh above.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 23, 2020 8:04:32 GMT -5
Ok this answers the question raised by the comment attributed to Bloom and highlighted by you and jimoh above. To me, it's the same answer. It's basically what I assumed by Bloom's comment. Haha and jimoh I assumed was playing grammar policeman.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 23, 2020 8:09:55 GMT -5
So, what happens if there's no baseball in 2020? Would Cora be suspended in 2021? If they play 80 games, is he suspended for part of 2021?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 23, 2020 8:22:24 GMT -5
So, what happens if there's no baseball in 2020? Would Cora be suspended in 2021? If they play 80 games, is he suspended for part of 2021? Baseball or no baseball, all the suspensions will be served in 2020 including the Astros.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 23, 2020 8:32:54 GMT -5
Watkins wasn't fired. I'm guessing he will get whatever pay percentage the rest of the Sox staff gets.No winks needed. He was suspended for 2020 without pay. The "without pay" part is what I was referring to. And it's not like he'll be able to apply for unemployment benefits like those who are being laid off are at the moment, so it's a pretty harsh punishment compared to what he's accused of doing, imo. It strains credibility that Watkins acted alone and that many within the Red Sox management team knew or should have known about this sign stealing scheme. It makes me wonder if someone within the Red Sox told MLB that they had evidence of many other MLB teams doing it which could have been used as leverage to limit the punishment. Honest question here: did you actually read the report? He is an advance scout and part of what he does is try and figure out what other teams' signs might be. That is completely above board and legal. The issue is that he updated that information while he was working as the video guy during games. How does it strain credulity that he acted alone in doing so? Also, consider (a) previous reporting that this is not a thing that the Red Sox were alone in doing, and (b) the note in this particular report that other teams had their advance scouts working in similar positions. Those on Twitter who are expressing righteous indignation that the Red Sox penalty was so much lesser than the Astros' was are, in my opinion, outing themselves as not actually having read any of this stuff. I wonder why the team is more adamant about keeping Cora away than the fans. The punishment seems worse than the announced offenses. Do you believe that the agreement was for the Red Sox to accept the punishment and the Commissioner would not reveal the offenses that may more implicate the team or players. I agree with this. There has to be something that MLB isn't telling us. Otherwise, the league taking a 2nd round pick makes no sense. As stated previously in this thread, the problem is that the Red Sox were already slapped on the wrist for something similar with the Apple Watch incident. I'm sure if not for their being "second-time offenders," there's an even lesser punishment, and there might not have been nearly as intense an investigation by MLB.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 23, 2020 8:36:30 GMT -5
Ok this answers the question raised by the comment attributed to Bloom and highlighted by you and jimoh above. To me, it's the same answer. It's basically what I assumed by Bloom's comment. Haha and jimoh I assumed was playing grammar policeman. Jimoh did an outstanding job! Head of the class.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 23, 2020 9:11:36 GMT -5
Watkins wasn't fired. I'm guessing he will get whatever pay percentage the rest of the Sox staff gets.No winks needed. He was suspended for 2020 without pay. The "without pay" part is what I was referring to. And it's not like he'll be able to apply for unemployment benefits like those who are being laid off are at the moment, so it's a pretty harsh punishment compared to what he's accused of doing, imo. It strains credibility that Watkins acted alone and that many within the Red Sox management team knew or should have known about this sign stealing scheme. It makes me wonder if someone within the Red Sox told MLB that they had evidence of many other MLB teams doing it which could have been used as leverage to limit the punishment. Honest question here: did you actually read the report? He is an advance scout and part of what he does is try and figure out what other teams' signs might be. That is completely above board and legal. The issue is that he updated that information while he was working as the video guy during games. How does it strain credulity that he acted alone in doing so? Also, consider (a) previous reporting that this is not a thing that the Red Sox were alone in doing, and (b) the note in this particular report that other teams had their advance scouts working in similar positions. Those on Twitter who are expressing righteous indignation that the Red Sox penalty was so much lesser than the Astros' was are, in my opinion, outing themselves as not actually having read any of this stuff. I agree with this. There has to be something that MLB isn't telling us. Otherwise, the league taking a 2nd round pick makes no sense. As stated previously in this thread, the problem is that the Red Sox were already slapped on the wrist for something similar with the Apple Watch incident. I'm sure if not for their being "second-time offenders," there's an even lesser punishment, and there might not have been nearly as intense an investigation by MLB. You could be right but I'm not so sure if suspended and suspended without pay are one in the same. To me, suspended means he can't do baseball stuff, not that he won't be paid. I don't recall seeing the words without pay. Cora was fired, he won't need to go to his mailbox every month.
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