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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 17:17:28 GMT -5
The "harsh" punishment for Cora is clearly based on his role in Houston, not in Boston. Find me a tweet that suggests otherwise to this point.
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Post by kevfc89 on Jan 13, 2020 17:25:57 GMT -5
Btw, Sox Winter Weekend is this Friday and Saturday and as of now Cora is scheduled to be there...that could be awkward
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 13, 2020 17:29:12 GMT -5
What a minute, Cora been in Boston for 2 years and Houston continued there video cheating. So Hinch can blame Cora all he wants facts are facts. Hinch let it ride for two more years.
I believe Cora will obviously get suspeneded but at least we have a capable bench coach to take over in Ron Roenicke.
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 13, 2020 17:32:38 GMT -5
The "harsh" punishment for Cora is clearly based on his role in Houston, not in Boston. Find me a tweet that suggests otherwise to this point.
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orion09
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Post by orion09 on Jan 13, 2020 17:36:38 GMT -5
We should be separating what Cora did in Houston from what he did in Boston and what Boston actually did. Boston cannot be punished for what Cora did in Houston. Agreed and we also have to consider that these talks about Cora being the mastermind of this scheme largely come from the Astros, it's possible they tried to scapegoat him to save themselves. It's a great point. If you read the report, Hinch claims he was against the sign-stealing and actually smashed the monitor a few times in protest. "It was all Cora's fault." Which... maybe, but I hope Manfred got independent confirmation of those facts.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 17:38:27 GMT -5
The "harsh" punishment for Cora is clearly based on his role in Houston, not in Boston. Find me a tweet that suggests otherwise to this point. Right, nothing about what the Red Sox did. Did you read the whole thing or is this in agreement with my post? Imagine how incompetent Manfred would have to be to give hints on what the Red Sox did before the investigation is over.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 13, 2020 17:39:36 GMT -5
Agreed and we also have to consider that these talks about Cora being the mastermind of this scheme largely come from the Astros, it's possible they tried to scapegoat him to save themselves. It's a great point. If you read the report, Hinch claims he was against the sign-stealing and actually smashed the monitor a few times in protest. "It was all Cora's fault." Which... maybe, but I hope Manfred got independent confirmation of those facts. There's some of that there. Astros are a classless organization for multiple reasons due to their past, but Cora is at fault. The commissioner admitted he was at fault and was just simply waiting at this point.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 13, 2020 17:57:22 GMT -5
I imagine they'll order Cora not to show up to winter weekend. What a depressing scene this winter weekend will be. Team not spending money. Cora about to be let go. Nothing has really happened. Yikes.
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Post by kevfc89 on Jan 13, 2020 17:59:20 GMT -5
one thing that sucks is you just know most teams were probably doing something like this. now that the cat's out of the bag, i wouldn't be surprised to see players begin to rat out other teams.
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Post by prangerx on Jan 13, 2020 18:03:31 GMT -5
The "harsh" punishment for Cora is clearly based on his role in Houston, not in Boston. Find me a tweet that suggests otherwise to this point. Because the investigation isn't finished yet. It took then awhile to finish the Astro's investigation. MLB isn't playing around. No way the Sox are getting off easy. Especially being repeat offenders. The league is trying to make a statement. Sox already had their easy out in the Apple Watch Scandal. Now they are going to pay.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 18:20:44 GMT -5
The "harsh" punishment for Cora is clearly based on his role in Houston, not in Boston. Find me a tweet that suggests otherwise to this point. Because the investigation isn't finished yet. It took then awhile to finish the Astro's investigation. MLB isn't playing around. No way the Sox are getting off easy. Especially being repeat offenders. The league is trying to make a statement. Sox already had their easy out in the Apple Watch Scandal. Now they are going to pay. Right, but there are so many people who are taking this news as evidence that the Red Sox are getting hammered. They have not determined or leaked anything about what the Red Sox actually did. Only Cora and the Astros. I have no doubt that Cora is getting severely punished FOR WHAT HE DID IN HOUSTON, but to take today's news and jump to any conclusion about the Red Sox is insane. Even if they turn out being right in the end. And even you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. The investigation isn't finished yet... but now they are going to pay. They are GOING TO PAY for doing 1/10th as much as Houston just because of a f'ing Apple Watch? If they are going to pay at anywhere close to the same level, there better be about 10 things we haven't heard them accused of yet.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 13, 2020 18:30:39 GMT -5
Because the investigation isn't finished yet. It took then awhile to finish the Astro's investigation. MLB isn't playing around. No way the Sox are getting off easy. Especially being repeat offenders. The league is trying to make a statement. Sox already had their easy out in the Apple Watch Scandal. Now they are going to pay. Right, but there are so many people who are taking this news as evidence that the Red Sox are getting hammered. They have not determined or leaked anything about what the Red Sox actually did. Only Cora and the Astros. I have no doubt that Cora is getting severely punished FOR WHAT HE DID IN HOUSTON, but to take today's news and jump to any conclusion about the Red Sox is insane. Even if they turn out being right in the end. And even you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. The investigation isn't finished yet... but now they are going to pay. I think common sense would say that the Sox' cheating wasn't as egregious as Houston, but being repeat offenders they will pay heavily. It's reasonable to expect they'll lose draft picks, but not as badly as Houston, but they will lose picks. They will probably have to pay a fine, although not as high as Houston, but I don't think anybody here really cares about that. As far as Cora goes, he'll probably get more than the 1 year Hinch got. No, it's not a foregone conclusion that Cora will be fired, but as the Astros mastermind and I think that the Sox FO is PR oriented, I now think it's more likely than not that Cora loses his job. He could be suspended for 2 years. AJ Hinch, in that report, sounds like the Buck Weaver of the scandal...not in favor of it, against it, but didn't report it or stop it - and he got a year. Sounds like Cora and Beltran were the two main culprits, but Beltran was only a player at the time. Kind of ironic that Beltran will come out of this keeping his new Mets managerial job, but because Cora was not a player at the time and that he, if not explicitly in charge, at least knew about it and didn't shut down what the Sox had going on in 2018 - and that's his best case Red Sox scenario - he'll get whacked harder than Hinch for that double whammy.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 13, 2020 18:34:41 GMT -5
Because the investigation isn't finished yet. It took then awhile to finish the Astro's investigation. MLB isn't playing around. No way the Sox are getting off easy. Especially being repeat offenders. The league is trying to make a statement. Sox already had their easy out in the Apple Watch Scandal. Now they are going to pay. Right, but there are so many people who are taking this news as evidence that the Red Sox are getting hammered. They have not determined or leaked anything about what the Red Sox actually did. Only Cora and the Astros. I have no doubt that Cora is getting severely punished FOR WHAT HE DID IN HOUSTON, but to take today's news and jump to any conclusion about the Red Sox is insane. Even if they turn out being right in the end. And even you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. The investigation isn't finished yet... but now they are going to pay. They are GOING TO PAY for doing 1/10th as much as Houston just because of a f'ing Apple Watch? If they are going to pay at anywhere close to the same level, there better be about 10 things we haven't heard them accused of yet. I agree with you, the investigation has to take its course. However, the Sox seemed to be on a warning for the Apple situation, i don't think that people are being overly dramatic by feeling that is could be very bad. Coupled with the Astros penalty, it is reasonable to me to think Manfred will come down with the hammer
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 18:44:27 GMT -5
Right, but there are so many people who are taking this news as evidence that the Red Sox are getting hammered. They have not determined or leaked anything about what the Red Sox actually did. Only Cora and the Astros. I have no doubt that Cora is getting severely punished FOR WHAT HE DID IN HOUSTON, but to take today's news and jump to any conclusion about the Red Sox is insane. Even if they turn out being right in the end. And even you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. The investigation isn't finished yet... but now they are going to pay. I think common sense would say that the Sox' cheating wasn't as egregious as Houston, but being repeat offenders they will pay heavily. It's reasonable to expect they'll lose draft picks, but not as badly as Houston, but they will lose picks. They will probably have to pay a fine, although not as high as Houston, but I don't think anybody here really cares about that. As far as Cora goes, he'll probably get more than the 1 year Hinch got. No, it's not a foregone conclusion that Cora will be fired, but as the Astros mastermind and I think that the Sox FO is PR oriented, I now think it's more likely than not that Cora loses his job. He could be suspended for 2 years. AJ Hinch, in that report, sounds like the Buck Weaver of the scandal...not in favor of it, against it, but didn't report it or stop it - and he got a year. Sounds like Cora and Beltran were the two main culprits, but Beltran was only a player at the time. Kind of ironic that Beltran will come out of this keeping his new Mets managerial job, but because Cora was not a player at the time and that he, if not explicitly in charge, at least knew about it and didn't shut down what the Sox had going on in 2018 - and that's his best case Red Sox scenario - he'll get whacked harder than Hinch for that double whammy. So what if it comes out that they stole signs (only with runners on 2nd base and not transmitted from the dugout) for a few weeks and then quit because it was ineffective (compared to the Astros doing it on every pitch effectively for years)? Just because of the Apple Watch, they're losing draft picks? What if Dombrowski found out about it and immediately shut it down? There's a whole lot of assumptions going on. And even if they're right in the end, they have no basis for stating anything as fact now and are simply guessing.
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Post by prangerx on Jan 13, 2020 18:45:52 GMT -5
Because the investigation isn't finished yet. It took then awhile to finish the Astro's investigation. MLB isn't playing around. No way the Sox are getting off easy. Especially being repeat offenders. The league is trying to make a statement. Sox already had their easy out in the Apple Watch Scandal. Now they are going to pay. Right, but there are so many people who are taking this news as evidence that the Red Sox are getting hammered. They have not determined or leaked anything about what the Red Sox actually did. Only Cora and the Astros. I have no doubt that Cora is getting severely punished FOR WHAT HE DID IN HOUSTON, but to take today's news and jump to any conclusion about the Red Sox is insane. Even if they turn out being right in the end. And even you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. The investigation isn't finished yet... but now they are going to pay. They are GOING TO PAY for doing 1/10th as much as Houston just because of a f'ing Apple Watch? If they are going to pay at anywhere close to the same level, there better be about 10 things we haven't heard them accused of yet. The second sign stealing allegations in 2018 is more of the issue here. The Apple Watch thing just makes them repeat offenders. Cora wasn't around for the first scandal but is a repeat offender do to the Astros. I think its pretty unlikely there isn't something to the 2018 Red Sox Scandal. Perhaps the fact that there might not be as much evidence or a less serious offense will help. But the second offense part could make up for that. Even if its a lighter punishment , then Astros' got, I expect a harsh punishment of some sort.
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bigmarty58
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Post by bigmarty58 on Jan 13, 2020 18:46:47 GMT -5
Repeat offender status if true will equal a similar penalty to the Sox as the Astros. Sorry to say but Cora is the common denominator and for that should be canned immediately regardless of MLB open investigation.
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Post by prangerx on Jan 13, 2020 18:50:04 GMT -5
One things for sure. Anyone thinking of digitally stealing signs in the future is going to have to think twice before doing it. If they get caught they are risking their jobs.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 18:58:34 GMT -5
For the record, I'm very, very glad for the harsh punishment. I just don't think what the Red Sox are accused of doing is in the same stratosphere.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 13, 2020 19:29:01 GMT -5
For the record, I'm very, very glad for the harsh punishment. I just don't think what the Red Sox are accused of doing is in the same stratosphere. What about the Sox being repeat offenders? That matters everywhere else when you break the law or rules. Does that not matter at all to you? Absolutely no one is saying what the Sox did was just as bad as the Astros.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 13, 2020 19:32:41 GMT -5
one thing that sucks is you just know most teams were probably doing something like this. now that the cat's out of the bag, i wouldn't be surprised to see players begin to rat out other teams. If the Red Sox get a harsher penalty for this than the Cardinals got for hacking, Manfred needs to be tossed into a volcano.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 19:44:13 GMT -5
For the record, I'm very, very glad for the harsh punishment. I just don't think what the Red Sox are accused of doing is in the same stratosphere. What about the Sox being repeat offenders? That matters everywhere else when you break the law or rules. Does that not matter at all to you? Absolutely no one is saying what the Sox did was just as bad as the Astros. Repeat offenders of what? Absolutely nothing meaningful until I see something that actually gave them a long term advantage over other teams.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 13, 2020 19:47:33 GMT -5
What about the Sox being repeat offenders? That matters everywhere else when you break the law or rules. Does that not matter at all to you? Absolutely no one is saying what the Sox did was just as bad as the Astros. Repeat offenders of what? Okay. Whatever dude.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 19:54:10 GMT -5
Repeat offenders of what? Okay. Whatever dude. Don't shorten my posts when replying to try to make me look stupid.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 13, 2020 20:11:28 GMT -5
When you ask that question first, you're blindly (and internationally) not even acknowledging what took place. Like it didn't even exist. It's infuriating to even have a conversation when one person just sticks his head in the sand about a subject, when everyone else is on the other side of the fence.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 13, 2020 20:15:53 GMT -5
When you ask that question first, you're blindly (and internationally) not even acknowledging what took place. Like it didn't even exist. It's infuriating to even have a conversation when one person just sticks his head in the sand about a subject, when everyone else is on the other side of the fence. I asked because I don't think what they're accused of gave them much advantage at all. I acknowledge that they probably stole the multiple sign code, that is often changed to sometimes help them and probably hurt them at other times when it was changed. If something else that has not been mentioned comes up, that may change. But to this point, I don't see a big deal if they did it or any other f'ing team did it, even the Yankees. That cannot be more different than what the Astros did and were punished for. Yet you and others are equating it because "cheating is cheating" without any regard for degree of advantage. I know for a fact that the Red Sox were changing their tells every time there was a runner on 2nd so any other team who "stole" their signs wouldn't be able to do anything at all with it. I cannot imagine that any other team wasn't also doing the same thing.
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