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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 1, 2020 21:43:35 GMT -5
Lol Umm I've seen him throw it much further and they are showing interest. He's an athletic high IQ guy that has shown he can play in the NFL. He wasn't that bad till their offensive line was horrible. If no Brady that wouldn't surprise me. Bring him in let him compete with Stidham, then draft another guy. Hill hasn't thrown a pass in the NFL per Football Reference. How do you reconcile the performance of the team under Tannehill vs Marriota, doesn't it undermine how bad he is? Offensive fit, they are two totally different QBs, Mariota fits in a short passing game like we run. Tannehill is a vertical passer, who wouldn't be good in our system. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2020 0:08:21 GMT -5
Lol Umm I've seen him throw it much further and they are showing interest. He's an athletic high IQ guy that has shown he can play in the NFL. He wasn't that bad till their offensive line was horrible. If no Brady that wouldn't surprise me. Bring him in let him compete with Stidham, then draft another guy. Hill hasn't thrown a pass in the NFL per Football Reference. Obviously the statement about 20 yards was facetious, but he does have a noodle arm. I don't know about that, are you talking about in 2018 when he was injured? Coming out of College he was rated from average to elite. I see reports now that say adequate, nothing showing he's horrible. More like his production, yet that seems a lot like the offense. I mean Brady wouldn't look good in a vertical passing attack. It's also not like I think Mariota is a future stud. A guy that fits with experience and upside. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 2, 2020 5:44:24 GMT -5
Obviously the statement about 20 yards was facetious, but he does have a noodle arm. I don't know about that, are you talking about in 2018 when he was injured? Coming out of College he was rated from average to elite. I see reports now that say adequate, nothing showing he's horrible. More like his production, yet that seems a lot like the offense. I mean Brady wouldn't look good in a vertical passing attack. It's also not like I think Mariota is a future stud. A guy that fits with experience and upside. How far you throw down field doesn’t dictate how strong your arm has to be. All these guys can get the call 40-50 yards down field. A 12 yard out or a ball over the middle 10 Yards down field between coverage needs pace. Brady has a laser he can thrown when he needs to. His down field passing is about accuracy on the deep ball and at least some of that has been held back due to his receivers being short and more quick than fast. You saw what Randy Moss did with Brady. No one would say Brady has adequate arm strength. I can see a world where Mariota is a solid QB, but he had weapons, a great line and was god awful. A QB needs to at least have the threat of throwing the ball down field or a defense can just pack things tight and that’s not a good thing. If you’re talking a super cheap deal, and you can’t get a Bridgewater on a decent contract then sure take a shot. And I’d for sure do they before these Andy Dalton rumors. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 2, 2020 16:30:01 GMT -5
Rjp Brady has never had good deep ball accuracy. He's looked good playing with the best deep ball WR I've ever seen and the best TE in the history of the game. I think you need to go watch some 2007 tape, it was just Brady throwing as hard as he could and Moss running it down.
If you were to rate Brady's deep ball right now adequate is about what I would say. There are a ton of guys that throw better deep balls than Brady.
Brady is all about accuracy in the short and medium throws. While being the best gamer I've ever seen. That is Mariota game.
I don't know how you can think the Titans had a good line, they gave up 56 sacks and an 11.1% sack rate. The highest in Brady's career is 41 sacks and an 9% rate from 2001.
Mariota in six starts last year was sacked 25 times for a 13.5% sack rate, Tannehill was sacked 31 times for a 9.8% sack rate. The big difference is Henry went off the last six games rushing for 896 yards and 10 TDs. Brady was sacked 27 times in 16 games last year for a sack rate of 4.2%. The Titans hardly used Sharpe and Humphreys, in favor of going vertical to Brown and Davis. The exact opposite of what we do.
2016 when Mariota was in a system that fit him and had time to throw, 23 sacks 4.9% sack rate 26 TDs 9 interceptions, 228 yards a game and a 95.6% rating. He's also a crazy athlete at QB that can move around in ways Brady never dreamed of. I can see McDaniels raising his game a ton. He's seems like the perfect fit for our offense. A very smart QB who's very teachable and very accurate with the football. My worry isn't arm strength, but durability.
He also seems like exactly the guy Bill would want to prove how good he is. Look at me I can take a former bust and make him look very good.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 2, 2020 18:14:32 GMT -5
I don't know about "struggled" & "last few years." This past year wasn't great but in 2018 Total Offense was 4th in points, 5th in yards & in 2017 it was better: 2nd in points, 1st in yards. I'm not sure I see a correlation between TB missing some voluntary Spring workouts and regular season offensive success. Seems more like a talk radio topic. That may be true but once upon a time he placed a lot of value on it. Can't just discount the effects it had when he was doing it, did it just become unimportant? I didn't discount the "effects," whatever that might be. What I did discount was the claim Brady missing this camp correlated with offensive struggles. I'd prefer he be there too. But I don't know what the benefits are. And I don't claim to know. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 2, 2020 23:21:16 GMT -5
I'm going to agree with umass here on Mariota. I'm still a fan, he has all the tools and he was a crazy impressive prospect that looked good here and there as a pro. Still young too. I think he was mismanaged with the Titans although I can't back that up. It's a hunch based on how solid he is overall.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 3, 2020 6:31:19 GMT -5
Rjp Brady has never had good deep ball accuracy. He's looked good playing with the best deep ball WR I've ever seen and the best TE in the history of the game. I think you need to go watch some 2007 tape, it was just Brady throwing as hard as he could and Moss running it down. If you were to rate Brady's deep ball right now adequate is about what I would say. There are a ton of guys that throw better deep balls than Brady. Brady is all about accuracy in the short and medium throws. While being the best gamer I've ever seen. That is Mariota game. I don't know how you can think the Titans had a good line, they gave up 56 sacks and an 11.1% sack rate. The highest in Brady's career is 41 sacks and an 9% rate from 2001. Mariota in six starts last year was sacked 25 times for a 13.5% sack rate, Tannehill was sacked 31 times for a 9.8% sack rate. The big difference is Henry went off the last six games rushing for 896 yards and 10 TDs. Brady was sacked 27 times in 16 games last year for a sack rate of 4.2%. The Titans hardly used Sharpe and Humphreys, in favor of going vertical to Brown and Davis. The exact opposite of what we do. 2016 when Mariota was in a system that fit him and had time to throw, 23 sacks 4.9% sack rate 26 TDs 9 interceptions, 228 yards a game and a 95.6% rating. He's also a crazy athlete at QB that can move around in ways Brady never dreamed of. I can see McDaniels raising his game a ton. He's seems like the perfect fit for our offense. A very smart QB who's very teachable and very accurate with the football. My worry isn't arm strength, but durability. He also seems like exactly the guy Bill would want to prove how good he is. Look at me I can take a former bust and make him look very good. Yea thats why i said his down field passing was about accuracy. In that he struggled with it: that’s not an arm strength issue. However, a lot of down field passers who are “accurate” have big and/or fast receivers to run under the ball. Are you trying to argue that Mariotta’s arm strength is equal to that of Brady’s? Brady can throw or at least used to be able to throw a ball on a string between coverage. I don’t think Mariotta can. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 3, 2020 6:33:33 GMT -5
A few reasons Brady has low sack rates is because he throws the ball away more than any other QB, makes quick reads on plays and moves well in the pocket. Marriotta doesn’t do any of that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 3, 2020 14:14:37 GMT -5
Rjp Brady has never had good deep ball accuracy. He's looked good playing with the best deep ball WR I've ever seen and the best TE in the history of the game. I think you need to go watch some 2007 tape, it was just Brady throwing as hard as he could and Moss running it down. If you were to rate Brady's deep ball right now adequate is about what I would say. There are a ton of guys that throw better deep balls than Brady. Brady is all about accuracy in the short and medium throws. While being the best gamer I've ever seen. That is Mariota game. I don't know how you can think the Titans had a good line, they gave up 56 sacks and an 11.1% sack rate. The highest in Brady's career is 41 sacks and an 9% rate from 2001. Mariota in six starts last year was sacked 25 times for a 13.5% sack rate, Tannehill was sacked 31 times for a 9.8% sack rate. The big difference is Henry went off the last six games rushing for 896 yards and 10 TDs. Brady was sacked 27 times in 16 games last year for a sack rate of 4.2%. The Titans hardly used Sharpe and Humphreys, in favor of going vertical to Brown and Davis. The exact opposite of what we do. 2016 when Mariota was in a system that fit him and had time to throw, 23 sacks 4.9% sack rate 26 TDs 9 interceptions, 228 yards a game and a 95.6% rating. He's also a crazy athlete at QB that can move around in ways Brady never dreamed of. I can see McDaniels raising his game a ton. He's seems like the perfect fit for our offense. A very smart QB who's very teachable and very accurate with the football. My worry isn't arm strength, but durability. He also seems like exactly the guy Bill would want to prove how good he is. Look at me I can take a former bust and make him look very good. Yea thats why i said his down field passing was about accuracy. In that he struggled with it: that’s not an arm strength issue. However, a lot of down field passers who are “accurate” have big and/or fast receivers to run under the ball. Are you trying to argue that Mariotta’s arm strength is equal to that of Brady’s? Brady can throw or at least used to be able to throw a ball on a string between coverage. I don’t think Mariotta can. The reason Brady struggles is because he doesn't have great arm strength, he has to put everything into the throws and thus loses accuracy. Dorsett is crazy fast, yet Brady doesn't have enough arm strength to use that because he needs to be wide open because his accuracy is bad. We watched it all last year Brady would miss a wide open Gordon by five to ten yards. That's the difference with Brady he just doesn't need big or fast WRs, he needs guys that can run down his passes or have massive catch radius down the field. Those guys are crazy rare. Brady wouldn't be able to use Hill the way the Chiefs do, he doesn't have enough arm strength. I'm saying nothing I've seen shows Mariota has a noodle arm and he has more than enough arm strength for our offense. I wouldn't judge who's better till I got to see a lot more of Mariota live. All of these reports that he doesn't have enough arm only started after the Titans switch from an attack like ours to a vertical attack. If you put Brady in a vertical attack offense and ask him to throw deep a ton you wouldn't like the results and people would question his arm also. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 3, 2020 14:33:47 GMT -5
A few reasons Brady has low sack rates is because he throws the ball away more than any other QB, makes quick reads on plays and moves well in the pocket. Marriotta doesn’t do any of that. That's part offense though. If you have a short passing game where you get the ball out quickly it helps. You can tell in seconds if guys are open or the D has them covered. When you ask a guy to wait for WRs to get open going down the field it takes more time and you get sacked more. Actually that is Mariota game, he a very accurate high IQ QB that moves well in the pocket and can make quick reads. Look at 2016. Every year since then they moved away from an offense like ours and more to a vertical attack. It's like comparing Bledsoe who is like Tannehill vs Mariota who is like Brady, but he's also a crazy athlete. You can live with the sacks with Bledsoe because he has a cannon and can make tons of vertical plays. You can't when you have a QB who's best assets are shorter passes and moving the chains. Imagine Brady, but also a guy you can move around, throw on the run and run for first Downs. I'm not saying he's Brady, but he's very similar, yet a crazy athlete at QB. The reason we run the offense we do is because of Brady. It isn't easy to run an offense like ours so the Titans gave up and tried to force Mariota to change, rather than get creative and it was a disaster. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 3, 2020 19:39:49 GMT -5
So multiple connected people (Curren, Perry, Floria, Deion Sanders . . .) are throwing around the idea of Brady to the Niners with Jimmy G coming back here (separate transactions of course).
While I HATE the idea of agreeing with Felger, he did take his schlock jock hat off for a minute to say that sometimes connected people are given information by sources but are told that they should formulate it as an opinion not a report. He says he knows that Florio has operated this way before. And the idea that a number of people (who are legit in one way or another) are coming up with this all of a sudden could mean that they are being fed it.
By whom and for what purpose remains the question.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Mar 4, 2020 11:36:16 GMT -5
So multiple connected people (Curren, Perry, Floria, Deion Sanders . . .) are throwing around the idea of Brady to the Niners with Jimmy G coming back here (separate transactions of course). While I HATE the idea of agreeing with Felger, he did take his schlock jock hat off for a minute to say that sometimes connected people are given information by sources but are told that they should formulate it as an opinion not a report. He says he knows that Florio has operated this way before. And the idea that a number of people (who are legit in one way or another) are coming up with this all of a sudden could mean that they are being fed it. By whom and for what purpose remains the question. I'd be all about this. There has been a lot of Jimmy G bashing post-Super Bowl, but the guy had started 10 games before this season and was coming off a torn ACL. He looked as good or better this year than Brady did in 09 coming off a torn ACL FWIW. At this point t I think Brady is a marginal upgrade in the short term, but at his age I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy is as good or better by next season. I also don't think Shanahan is the coach who wants to turn over his offense to Brady and implement his scheme. I imagine this is wishful thinking leaked by the Brady camp as basically every report and rumor has been so far. The fact that it's Curran and Florio suggesting the 49ers definitely points in Brady's direction. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 4, 2020 12:11:02 GMT -5
Part of me thinks it could be BB though.
"You want to leave? Go. Your all-time favorite team. Ready made O and D. SB last year. No excuses". Brady is more likely but, "squinting" I could see Pats' side as well.
Either way, it does seem more like a leverage play than something with actual legs.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 4, 2020 15:26:45 GMT -5
Tom and BB have talked, or not. It was cold and contentious, or it was normal business as usual. It happened yesterday, or a different time earlier than yesterday. Interest from other teams is high, or much lower than that. News!!!
This will be a long 14 days.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 4, 2020 16:27:40 GMT -5
You'd have to be stupid to trade a guy in prime to get an old Brady.
Nevermind are the 49ers going to do us a favor on the trade? If you did an open bidding the Price for Jimmy would be rather high no? Is Bill going to pay a crazy high price for a guy he traded away for a 2nd round pick? Remember he turned down better offers from the Browns to send Jimmy to a team where he had the best chance of doing well.
Frankly this sounds like Brady's camp trying to come up with ideas to get him to good teams. Mainly because most rumors have him going to teams that aren't that good. Like how many teams have the talent he needs, plus the ability to build an offense around him? The 49ers check those boxes, so this isn't surprising.
This whole thing is kinda crazy. Like why at his age does he care about making top of the market money now? You would think his only goal would be trying to win more Championships and set all time records.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 4, 2020 16:30:52 GMT -5
Brady to the Niners I can almost see. It's stupid, but it's the kind of stupid decision with a rationale behind it. I wouldn't do it and I honestly think the Niners wouldn't either, but I can understand why this is a rumor.
Jimmy G back to the Pats, on the other hand, makes zero sense and it's a very lazy rumor.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 4, 2020 17:17:18 GMT -5
You'd have to be stupid to trade a guy in prime to get an old Brady. Nevermind are the 49ers going to do us a favor on the trade? If you did an open bidding the Price for Jimmy would be rather high no? Is Bill going to pay a crazy high price for a guy he traded away for a 2nd round pick? Remember he turned down better offers from the Browns to send Jimmy to a team where he had the best chance of doing well. Frankly this sounds like Brady's camp trying to come up with ideas to get him to good teams. Mainly because most rumors have him going to teams that aren't that good. Like how many teams have the talent he needs, plus the ability to build an offense around him? The 49ers check those boxes, so this isn't surprising. This whole thing is kinda crazy. Like why at his age does he care about making top of the market money now? You would think his only goal would be trying to win more Championships and set all time records. If Brady waits until after the new league year starts to sign a contract would the Pat's have to take the $13m dead money hit in addition to whatever contract he signs? I'm not 100% on this the NFL cap rules are crazy. Yet what I've seen is if he resigns before the new league year they can spread it out over two years. If he doesn't then it's just there. Which is why the more time this takes the more it looks like he might leave and if they don't resign him before the new year he's likely gone. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 5, 2020 6:28:15 GMT -5
If Brady waits until after the new league year starts to sign a contract would the Pat's have to take the $13m dead money hit in addition to whatever contract he signs? I'm not 100% on this the NFL cap rules are crazy. Yet what I've seen is if he resigns before the new league year they can spread it out over two years. If he doesn't then it's just there. Which is why the more time this takes the more it looks like he might leave and if they don't resign him before the new year he's likely gone. The reason it’s important that a new CBA be signed before a new Brady contract is because you can’t have “funny money” years in contracts signed during the last year of a CBA. So the contract Brady signed last offseason with the fake second year that voided which was used to spread the cap hit wouldn’t be allowed without a new CBA. In short, you can’t spread out cap hits if a new CBA isn’t signed. |
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Post by mobaz on Mar 5, 2020 8:26:08 GMT -5
Yeah, two things really affect this: The CBA needs to be signed (or not) and the Pats and Brady need to agree to a deal before March 18, or else the full $13.5M dead money is on the cap; if he signs an Extension (not a free agent contract) it gets split $6.5 this year and next. I think if there's no deal before March 18 he's gone. The cap penalty is too high otherwise. Can you really see BB letting Brady take up $30-$45M of cap space?
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Post by mobaz on Mar 5, 2020 8:41:41 GMT -5
Tom and BB have talked, or not. It was cold and contentious, or it was normal business as usual. It happened yesterday, or a different time earlier than yesterday. Interest from other teams is high, or much lower than that. News!!! This will be a long 14 days. Sounds like a distraction is in order, so here's an nfl draft simulator. Fanspeak.com/ontheclock-nfl-mock-draft-simulator/ If reality isn't going to give Boston fans any good news, let's make some up. Much more fun than Brady talk. I picked Mekhi Becton OL from Louisville in the first. Recent reports have him going much higher, but he's huge and strong in the Nate Solder vibe. (Interestingly, PFF has the Giants taking him at 4; does Scar get a commission on the insane contracts Solder, Brown, and soon Thuney and Karras get?). Houston's Josh Jones might be a realistic target, but I can't think of a non P5 school OL that Bill took that high. Still pissed about the 2nd rounder for Sanu. The Pats would have been in great position to get an OL at 23 and then a receiver in the 2nd that probably has a first round grade. Third round, I went: 87: R3P23 TE ADAM TRAUTMAN DAYTON 97: R3P33 WR ANTONIO GANDY-GOLDEN LIBERTY 99: R3P35 S JORDAN FULLER OHIO STATE I've seen some good Trautman press lately, and think the top tight ends all have questions. Kmet won't last to the Pats' range, and probably is a lower upside receiver than we need. Gandy-Golden is older so hopefully he help him gel in the offense faster. High upside for a comp pick receiver. I'm out of my comfort zone with non-skill position players after the first few rounds, but I remember seeing Fuller making plays in the CFB playoffs. And that's as far as I was willing to brave. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2020 14:17:50 GMT -5
I'm not 100% on this the NFL cap rules are crazy. Yet what I've seen is if he resigns before the new league year they can spread it out over two years. If he doesn't then it's just there. Which is why the more time this takes the more it looks like he might leave and if they don't resign him before the new year he's likely gone. The reason it’s important that a new CBA be signed before a new Brady contract is because you can’t have “funny money” years in contracts signed during the last year of a CBA. So the contract Brady signed last offseason with the fake second year that voided which was used to spread the cap hit wouldn’t be allowed without a new CBA. In short, you can’t spread out cap hits if a new CBA isn’t signed. Where do you get you can't spread out his dead money without a new CBA? No funny years doesn't mean no spreading money. Every article I've seen says you can split that 13.5 million if he resigns even if no new CBA. You just can't get crazy creative and push a ton of money into dead years. So a new CBA makes it easier. You also have the 30% rule, which means you can go over 30% of his 23 million last year, if that is the correct number. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2020 15:45:09 GMT -5
I wouldn't say Kmet is a lower upside receiver than we need. He's ranked the #1 TE because of his receiving. His blocking needs work, as Notre Dame has used specialized TE blockers for years. He was the #3 TE recruit nationally out of high school.
The only thing with him, is he basically only has one year of production. He missed the first two games and when he came back it changed everything. Giving Book a second great weapon to Claypool. He moves well, can make big plays, has a huge catch radius and was huge for us in the Red Zone. I just haven't seen a ton of his games and haven't seen the growth like with Claypool. Claypool got better every year. He went from okay starter, to very good starter to star in three years. Maybe that shouldn't be a big worry as the two guys before him both got drafted in Mack and Smyth. It just makes it harder to know how much growth he has left in him.
At the same time he might just be scratching the surface of his potential. Notre Dame hasn't has a TE that could do the things he did since Tyler Eifert like a decade ago. He's not that athletic, Eifert was basically a big WR. Yet he's got a huge catch radius and can go up and get the ball.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 5, 2020 18:43:41 GMT -5
The reason it’s important that a new CBA be signed before a new Brady contract is because you can’t have “funny money” years in contracts signed during the last year of a CBA. So the contract Brady signed last offseason with the fake second year that voided which was used to spread the cap hit wouldn’t be allowed without a new CBA. In short, you can’t spread out cap hits if a new CBA isn’t signed. Where do you get you can't spread out his dead money without a new CBA? No funny years doesn't mean no spreading money. Every article I've seen says you can split that 13.5 million if he resigns even if no new CBA. You just can't get crazy creative and push a ton of money into dead years. So a new CBA makes it easier. You also have the 30% rule, which means you can go over 30% of his 23 million last year, if that is the correct number. Yea that’s the point you can’t do dead year deals, like the Revis and last Brady contract. That’s key for the Patriots having the dead money they have. I didn’t say they couldn’t sign him without a new CBA but having one is important to allow them to sign him and do other things. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 7, 2020 18:34:17 GMT -5
My first draft magazine rates TE an A, yet only gives one TE a grade before the third round. Yet rates WR a B+, yet there is a massive amount of guys that could go top 100. It makes no sense.
Who's your QB next year? I wouldn't go WR again if it's Brady, he just takes too long to gain that trust he needs. Yet after a quick look the best value could be at WR for our pick. Yet this class is so deep early projections have a guy like Claypool going 3-4 round, yet I've seen a few moving him up to late second after his big combine. I wouldn't rule out a QB and Herbert makes some sense.
Jake Fromm seems like a guy the Patriots would love if he's there late third round or later. Yet it just depends if Brady comes back and if they want to carry three guys.
This could easily change with free agency but we need a lot of help at WR, TE and RB. I don't like the fact they took Harris in the third round and didn't basically play him all year even when we needed RB depth. Michel needs a RB partner, that much is clear. We need a WR that can stretch the field. We need TEs that can stretch the field and ones that can block.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 15, 2020 17:15:03 GMT -5
Well there is the new CBA. We have a few days to see if they can workout a deal. That first conversation that didn't go well, mainly because Bill said he can't pay Brady even the 23 million he made last year because of the dead money.
Ryan Tannehill got four years 118 million with like 80 million guaranteed. Like OMG how stupid are teams? I would have franchised him and let him prove it for a full season before giving him that much.
Jimmy Graham got released, kinda seems like the older should be rather cheap type of move the Patriots love.
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