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Post by ryan24 on Jun 29, 2020 17:15:19 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see how this signing of Newton works out. Stidham certainly knows the system. That is an advantage. Newton certainly has the experience. That's an advantage. I wonder if they put in packages just for Newton to take advantage of. Stidham is injury free and Newton comes in with an injury history. What does Newton have left in the tank. How will he work with Josh and the offensive schemes. What does the depth chart look like now? I do not think that Newton would come in without some expectations of playing. Not saying how much that is. Wonder if any of the EXPERTS who forecasted win loss totals will change their minds? Actually as far as the fine goes, I am surprised that it was so small a penalty. It seems like every couple of years the pats get caught doing something like this. I guess Kraft still has some juice with Goodell. I would think with this not being the first, the second, or the third that a bigger fine and more picks would be lost, but what do I know. Any other team given what happen likely get something like a $250,000 fine and doesn't lose a pick. So 1.1 million and a third is a huge jump up. Remember they found it was just a mistake, it wasn't them trying to break the rules and get an advantage. That would have been huge, likely Bill suspended for a year, loss of two first round picks and a 5-10 million fine. Kraft has zero juice when it comes to Goodel and punishment for breaking rules. If anything they have been treated worse than they should. You are a total pats fan. they can do nothing wrong. if this was the first time with a problem and getting CAUGHT. I will go with what you just said. BUT, this is not the first time and WE all have to wonder after 3 or 4 times whether they were NOT trying to break the rules. Once fine I go with your statement but this is not even the third time with an investigation of problems with the pats doing something they are getting called on. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 29, 2020 17:18:57 GMT -5
Sometimes people just get burned out doing the same job in the same place. It appears that Tom needed a change of scenery. I also think it is a theme that has been mentioned way back months ago. Tom and Bill want to show that they do not need the other to win a title. Pretty harsh words for the guy who won 6 titles for the pats. Maybe that is the case, yet that's not what Brady has said and we have stories he's told to back it up. He did it for his family. Go search the web, you'll find a bunch straight from his mouth. Now because he wants to prove something, his family isn't this huge concern. That's his decision, yet acting like we can't be upset because of the past is kinda crazy. It's come from former Patriots, that said Tom wouldn't put in the time with young guys. As a Patriot fan I frankly don't know how you can't be upset. They draft a first round WR for the first time in the Brady era and he wants no part of him! He's older, were in the middle of a Pandemic and he's doing things he hasn't done in years for his legacy that he wouldn't do for our team. You are very funny. You are a true blue pats fan. No you totally do not get it. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 29, 2020 17:29:57 GMT -5
Does Stidham know the system? He definitely knows the terminology, but both he and Newton are mobile QBs. My guess is the system is very different with either of them than it was with Brady. As it should be.. Brady is the best ever but his offense was about timing which made it very hard to stop but also very hard to execute. Yeah reports have made it seem he knows the system and picked it up crazy fast. Yet he also doesn't have any experience. The question is what does training camp look like? Are their preseason games and joint practices? How quickly can Newton pick up the system? Maybe I'm wrong, but I have this feeling that this took this long because Newton wanted to be the starter. Bill wouldn't give him that, so he settled for a chance to start. I still think Bill wants Stidham to start, yet couldn't resist a backup plan as good as Newton given the current unknowns. Quite a while back when I questioned whether Stidham was going to be able to continue on and make the pats a contender you immediately jumped on that Stidham was Bill's guy and questioning this was wrong. You supported Bill's decision all the way. Stidham could be the second coming of Pat M . I do not know and neither do you. Hopefully one of Stidham or Newton give the pats a great chance to win. Injury history hurts Newton and maybe he is washed up. Stidham HAS NO experience in real games so is he Baker M or Pat M? I have no idea and neither do you. My sincere wish is that one of them helps the pats to a playoff spot. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 29, 2020 19:29:21 GMT -5
Ryan what are all the cases you talk about? There is Spygate, they did it. There is deflate gate that ten year olds have proven false with simple science experiments and now this. The league concluded it wasn't done on propose and was a simple mistake by a group hired by Kraft. Go compare that to other teams pumping in fake noise and heating up footballs that resulted in no loss of picks and a tiny fine. Those are as bad as anything the Patriots have done ever, yet they keep losing first round picks.
Ryan please show me where I ever said Stidham could be Patrick Maholmes? I trust Bill and believe in Stidham, but you are just making stuff up. I never comped him to either of those guys, it doesn't match.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 30, 2020 5:10:12 GMT -5
Also, it was the Bengals - the Pats aren’t going to risk everything to film the Bengals.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jun 30, 2020 6:46:12 GMT -5
Also, it was the Bengals - the Pats aren’t going to risk everything to film the Bengals. You are obviously forgetting the power of being "on to Cincinnati" |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 7, 2020 19:05:31 GMT -5
www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29424672/patrick-mahomes-sought-security-flexibility-chiefs-landmark-deal?platform=ampI find it funny that he thinks this deals gives his team flexibility to surround him with talent. Biggest contract was Matt Ryan at $150 million, he just got over $470 million and can earn more in incentives. Plus the start of every year kicks in to fully guarantee next year's full salary. So he'll never not have guarantee money on his deal making restructures very hard. His cap number in 2027 is basically $60 million. Largest deal in sports history. The Chiefs window just got cut short.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2020 4:54:47 GMT -5
Burkhead restructured.
Burkhead will get a $550,000 signing bonus, but his salary will fall from $2.5 million to $1.05 million and his bonuses will decrease from $500,000 to $400,000, per Yates. That creates $981,250 million in cap space, and should get the Patriots’ cap space to just over $1 million.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 8, 2020 4:56:39 GMT -5
www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29424672/patrick-mahomes-sought-security-flexibility-chiefs-landmark-deal?platform=ampI find it funny that he thinks this deals gives his team flexibility to surround him with talent. Biggest contract was Matt Ryan at $150 million, he just got over $470 million and can earn more in incentives. Plus the start of every year kicks in to fully guarantee next year's full salary. So he'll never not have guarantee money on his deal making restructures very hard. His cap number in 2027 is basically $60 million. Largest deal in sports history. The Chiefs window just got cut short. I guess it depends on what happens with the cap but it’s always a lot harder to build a consistent contender once your QB gets paid. No one but the Patriots and maybe the Steelers for a while could really do it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2020 12:07:39 GMT -5
Unless there is something huge that happens like the NBA new TV deal that made the cap jump up huge I don't see it. 2008 the cap was $116 million, it's just under $200 million now. Last six years been about a $10 million per year increase. Yet it's not increases for a few years given what's happening. He's going to be counting for $60 million in 2027 and the cap will likely be around 250-270 million. Normally guaranteed money at that point would be almost gone, but his deal kicks locks in next year's salary as guaranteed a year before. If they restructure, they'll just have the same problem the next year and won't be able to restructure.
No team has had QB deals where the QB averages over 20% of the cap. Farve signed a ten year deal at over 18% of the cap, Wilson current deal is right around there. Mahomes deal is about 24% of the current cap. Brady and Big Ben never had deals like that, no QB ever has. It's crazy hard at when it's under 20%, it's going to be impossible at those numbers. If he wanted to shatter records I get it, I just laugh when he says it's team friendly and gives them flexibility. Farve went to two Superbowls before his record deal and never went to another one after signing it. It's like the league still hasn't learned from the Patriot model.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 11, 2020 14:25:34 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 11, 2020 15:08:24 GMT -5
Holy Moley that’s huge news
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Post by costpet on Jul 12, 2020 4:40:49 GMT -5
Cap space. Ummmmmmmm
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Post by costpet on Jul 12, 2020 4:41:10 GMT -5
Clowney?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2020 5:00:43 GMT -5
Keep in mind they still need about 5m for in season roster movement but yes now they can do their extensions and restructures and add a guy like Clowney or trade for Njoku |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2020 5:14:23 GMT -5
Base defense was only 16% of the Patriots D last year. That combined with their draft picks recently means we might want to be putting less emphasis on what their base is when figuring their likely personnel.
A look at the Patriots’ different personnel alignments, as compiled by Patriots Wire’s Brent Schwartz, shows this:
Nickel (2-4-5): 26.7%
3-4 Base: 16.4%
Big Dime (1-4-6): 15.4%
Big Nickel (2-4-5): 12.7%
Big Dime (2-3-6): 10%
Other (short yardage/goal line/heavy): 6.4%
4 CB Dime (1-4-6 or 2-3-6): 6.1%
Quarter (1-3-7): 4.1%
Nickel (3-3-5): 2.2%
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 12, 2020 5:35:39 GMT -5
www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29424672/patrick-mahomes-sought-security-flexibility-chiefs-landmark-deal?platform=ampI find it funny that he thinks this deals gives his team flexibility to surround him with talent. Biggest contract was Matt Ryan at $150 million, he just got over $470 million and can earn more in incentives. Plus the start of every year kicks in to fully guarantee next year's full salary. So he'll never not have guarantee money on his deal making restructures very hard. His cap number in 2027 is basically $60 million. Largest deal in sports history. The Chiefs window just got cut short. I totally agree with you here. I read thru some of the stuff in his contract and do not exactly understand how it all works. His base salary is like $10 mil and he gets a huge chunk of money the 3rd day of the new year. But I probably read it wrong but they said the chiefs can change some of this to signing bonus and that will free up cap space. You are always on top of stuff like this, can you explain any of it ? I guess the defense stays weak. The skill guys will be young rookie contract types and the O line will be pretty good. Banking an awful lot on him having a healthy career. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2020 8:48:47 GMT -5
www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29424672/patrick-mahomes-sought-security-flexibility-chiefs-landmark-deal?platform=ampI find it funny that he thinks this deals gives his team flexibility to surround him with talent. Biggest contract was Matt Ryan at $150 million, he just got over $470 million and can earn more in incentives. Plus the start of every year kicks in to fully guarantee next year's full salary. So he'll never not have guarantee money on his deal making restructures very hard. His cap number in 2027 is basically $60 million. Largest deal in sports history. The Chiefs window just got cut short. I totally agree with you here. I read thru some of the stuff in his contract and do not exactly understand how it all works. His base salary is like $10 mil and he gets a huge chunk of money the 3rd day of the new year. But I probably read it wrong but they said the chiefs can change some of this to signing bonus and that will free up cap space. You are always on top of stuff like this, can you explain any of it ? I guess the defense stays weak. The skill guys will be young rookie contract types and the O line will be pretty good. Banking an awful lot on him having a healthy career. Hardman is the only skill guy they really have thats going to be on a rookie contract going forward tho right? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 12, 2020 9:21:55 GMT -5
www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29424672/patrick-mahomes-sought-security-flexibility-chiefs-landmark-deal?platform=ampI find it funny that he thinks this deals gives his team flexibility to surround him with talent. Biggest contract was Matt Ryan at $150 million, he just got over $470 million and can earn more in incentives. Plus the start of every year kicks in to fully guarantee next year's full salary. So he'll never not have guarantee money on his deal making restructures very hard. His cap number in 2027 is basically $60 million. Largest deal in sports history. The Chiefs window just got cut short. I totally agree with you here. I read thru some of the stuff in his contract and do not exactly understand how it all works. His base salary is like $10 mil and he gets a huge chunk of money the 3rd day of the new year. But I probably read it wrong but they said the chiefs can change some of this to signing bonus and that will free up cap space. You are always on top of stuff like this, can you explain any of it ? I guess the defense stays weak. The skill guys will be young rookie contract types and the O line will be pretty good. Banking an awful lot on him having a healthy career. Taking incentives out of the equation the simplest version of the way the cap works is as follows: Signing bonus gets paid out to the player immediately but the cap hit gets spread over the life of the contract. 40m bonus over 10 years counts 4m towards every cap. Guaranteed salary - Gets counted towards the cap for whichever year it’s in. Non-guarantee salary - Doesn’t count against the cap until that season starts and it becomes guaranteed. When you cut a player all his guaranteed salary that’s left hits the cap so that’s why you can see players with dead cap hits that are much larger than their current cap hits. If you want to hear about incentives. An incentive that’s likely to be earned, which means the player’s prior year stats or awards suggest he’ll get them count against that coming years cap. If they don’t reach the incentives they’ll get a cap credit the following season for the hit they got but didn’t “use” the previous year. An incentive that’s “not likely to be earned” doesn’t count against the cap but if the player hits them then they take the hit the following season. Cam Newton can earn up to 7.5m this year but it won’t count this season on the cap. If he hits the incentives then they’ll have that hit next year even if Newton isn’t here. Hope this helps a bit. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 12, 2020 14:21:15 GMT -5
His extension cap hits 31, 42, 40, 42, 42, 60, 44, 45, 50, and 52 million. I rounded each number obviously.
His signing bonus is small at ten million and goes away after 2024. His base salary is small and the majority every year is a roster bonus. The third day of every year he gets that roster bonus and it fully guarantees next year's base salary and roster bonuses.
You can certainly change base salary and roster bonus into signing bonuses and spread out the cap hit. Yet look at those numbers, it's only going to increase future cap numbers. They went so crazy with his numbers that there is zero ways to make it affordable. Sure in 2027 when he's 31 they can get some saving on that 60 million cap hit. Say take 20 million and spread it out over the five years left in the form of a signing bonus. They'd get 16 million in cap money, yet add 4 million more to the next four years, which are already crazy. Now they are 48, 49, 54, and 56 million.
They basically did an Alex Rodriguez type deal that is so crazy it will take a few decades for contracts to catch up. If he continues being great you won't want to cut him, yet won't be able to afford to build a team around him. Frankly it looks like a GM basically not carrying about the future, he just wants to win now. Andy Reid won't be around likely to see the back end of the deal, so it will be someone else mess to fix. They are going to have to be crazy creative and draft crazy well. Yet talk about Chris Jones getting a mega deal now. They could be in cap hell by 2023 the way they are going. Patrick Mahomes is great, but he's also looked that way with some of the best weapons in football that are being paid a lot of money. Going to be fun to see how this turns out. I would have went with a much shorter deal, giving you more options.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 13, 2020 6:35:37 GMT -5
Thanks umass and rip. I appreciate the info. I am/ was a finance guy so I am reasonably good with numbers, BUT, this contract is mind boggling. So, the chiefs have a 3 year window before The 40 mil numbers start to hit. So, assuming the cap increases by 10 mil a year. That increase is eaten up by Pat M's salary. So once he gets to the 40 mil numbers change the roster bonus to a signing bonus and keep adding years? Eventually you still have to pay the piper. Somewhere, there is a Harvard MBA guy who has come up with some option to make this work, LOL.
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 13, 2020 6:37:55 GMT -5
I have read in several places where the pats have to get thru this year with the cap and then next year have lots of money to spend. Does nyone know who comes off to free up this big chunk of money?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 13, 2020 8:03:02 GMT -5
Thanks umass and rip. I appreciate the info. I am/ was a finance guy so I am reasonably good with numbers, BUT, this contract is mind boggling. So, the chiefs have a 3 year window before The 40 mil numbers start to hit. So, assuming the cap increases by 10 mil a year. That increase is eaten up by Pat M's salary. So once he gets to the 40 mil numbers change the roster bonus to a signing bonus and keep adding years? Eventually you still have to pay the piper. Somewhere, there is a Harvard MBA guy who has come up with some option to make this work, LOL. The interesting part will be what happens to the cap with likely lost revenue. They could spread the loss over 3 seasons like last time or absorb it all next year. Either way, we likely aren’t seeing the same cap increases the next couple seasons. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 13, 2020 8:09:09 GMT -5
I have read in several places where the pats have to get thru this year with the cap and then next year have lots of money to spend. Does nyone know who comes off to free up this big chunk of money? There will always be dead money but this year they have a lot (over 26m) so part of the increased room is from that. But also: Thuney: 14m Hightower: 12.4 Sanu 6.5 Jason McCourty 5.5 Guy: 5.3 White 4.5 Andrews 3.4 Then guys like Burkhead, Butler, Simon and Wise are all 2m plus but UFAs. They have quite a few holes to fill, not to mention Cam Newton, but they’ll be in a good spot Cap wise to do it. |
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Post by ryan24 on Jul 13, 2020 8:42:59 GMT -5
I have read in several places where the pats have to get thru this year with the cap and then next year have lots of money to spend. Does nyone know who comes off to free up this big chunk of money? There will always be dead money but this year they have a lot (over 26m) so part of the increased room is from that. But also: Thuney: 14m Hightower: 12.4 Sanu 6.5 Jason McCourty 5.5 Guy: 5.3 White 4.5 Andrews 3.4 Then guys like Burkhead, Butler, Simon and Wise are all 2m plus but UFAs. They have quite a few holes to fill, not to mention Cam Newton, but they’ll be in a good spot Cap wise to do it. Wow almost 80 mil. They should be able to do something with that. |
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