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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 2, 2021 20:24:51 GMT -5
From a Jen McCaffrey mailbag: Can we expect the Red Sox to make some trades involving some of their minor league talent this offseason, particularly infield prospects as there seems to be an abundance? (Jeter Downs, Nick Yorke, Marcelo Mayer, Jonathan Arauz, Cameron Cannon, Christian Arroyo, Matthew Lugo, Blaze Jordan, Bobby Dalbec) — Chris Correa via email
It’s possible the Red Sox trade some players and prospects from that group, but I’d have to think Mayer, Yorke and Jordan are off-limits. There’s too much potential with that group to trade right now. I’m inclined to put Downs in that group, too, but I’m less certain on that. He’s having a good stretch in the Arizona Fall League after a rough year overall. After so many starts and stops because of the trades, I think they’d like to give Downs more of a chance before yet another trade. Arroyo seems likely to be part of the equation for the Red Sox at second base next year. It is possible after a strong second half that Dalbec is tradable this winter, especially with Triston Casas nearing his debut. Cannon and Lugo probably wouldn’t get much on their own but could be pieces in a deal. theathletic.com/2928753/2021/11/02/free-agent-starters-reliever-possibilities-and-the-fate-of-eduardo-rodriguez-red-sox-mailbag-part-2/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 14, 2022 15:16:02 GMT -5
In regards to what was just being discussed in the Devers extension thread that was halted by Chris, rightfully, as being off topic.
When we discuss the return on the Mookie deal I think most would say that Downs was supposed to be a big part of that return and his performance to date has been nothing short of terrible. If he had continued to be a top prospect then the debate would be very different, what if he was actually the starting 2nd baseman and producing? Yeah I know prospects are suspects and he is proof.
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 14, 2022 15:24:07 GMT -5
In regards to what was just being discussed in the Devers extension thread that was halted by Chris, rightfully, as being off topic. When we discuss the return on the Mookie deal I think most would say that Downs was supposed to be a big part of that return and his performance to date has been nothing short of terrible. If he had continued to be a top prospect then the debate would be very different, what if he was actually the starting 2nd baseman and producing? Yeah I know prospects are suspects and he is proof. It sounds like his defense has gotten better recently and he's shown good pop for a 2nd baseman but he clearly has giant holes in his swing. Perhaps he can figure a way to get his swing in miss issues controlled to maybe still be a viable major leaguer but I'm not optimistic to say the least. You can't fault the sox for grabbing downs in the deal when at the time he was ranked a top 75 prospect or so who looked like a good bet to be a solid 2nd baseman. He's the usual cautionary tale of following prospects. Frankly most don't pan out.
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Post by patford on Apr 14, 2022 15:45:06 GMT -5
In regards to what was just being discussed in the Devers extension thread that was halted by Chris, rightfully, as being off topic. When we discuss the return on the Mookie deal I think most would say that Downs was supposed to be a big part of that return and his performance to date has been nothing short of terrible. If he had continued to be a top prospect then the debate would be very different, what if he was actually the starting 2nd baseman and producing? Yeah I know prospects are suspects and he is proof. The return in the Betts deal is not having a guy who is hitting .217 and is under contract for a gazillion dollars per year forever.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 14, 2022 17:27:45 GMT -5
In regards to what was just being discussed in the Devers extension thread that was halted by Chris, rightfully, as being off topic. When we discuss the return on the Mookie deal I think most would say that Downs was supposed to be a big part of that return and his performance to date has been nothing short of terrible. If he had continued to be a top prospect then the debate would be very different, what if he was actually the starting 2nd baseman and producing? Yeah I know prospects are suspects and he is proof. The return in the Betts deal is not having a guy who is hitting .217 and is under contract for a gazillion dollars per year forever. 23 at bats. Let's relax a little. I was really hoping the kid who was said to be have every tool rated as potentially above average, but none great would look like someone who could contribute somewhat at the MLB level.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2022 19:29:55 GMT -5
Just a thought.
If Downs has the kind of season that forces the Sox hand, if X opts out and leaves, they could shift Story to SS and 2b is open in 2023 for Downs....if he performs this year in AAA.
With him struggling and David Hamilton off to an eye opening start, maybe Hamilton, at 24, forces his way to AAA sooner than later and positions himself as a possibility to leap Downs and potentially find himself as a 2b candidate in 2023?
Hamilton is supposed to project as a utility man but maybe he starts to hit enough to merit being better than his projection?
It's too early to draw any real conclusions but it's a new thought given how bad Downs continues to look and how intriguing Hamilton is becoming.
It's not a wish of mine to replace X with Downs or Hamilton, but they may need a 2 or 3 year solution until Yorke is ready to claim 2b for about six years.
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 14, 2022 19:45:37 GMT -5
Just a thought. If Downs has the kind of season that forces the Sox hand, if X opts out and leaves, they could shift Story to SS and 2b is open in 2023 for Downs....if he performs this year in AAA. With him struggling and David Hamilton off to an eye opening start, maybe Hamilton, at 24, forces his way to AAA sooner than later and positions himself as a possibility to leap Downs and potentially find himself as a 2b candidate in 2023? Hamilton is supposed to project as a utility man but maybe he starts to hit enough to merit being better than his projection? It's too early to draw any real conclusions but it's a new thought given how bad Downs continues to look and how intriguing Hamilton is becoming. It's not a wish of mine to replace X with Downs or Hamilton, but they may need a 2 or 3 year solution until Yorke is ready to claim 2b for about six years. They obviously aren't xandy nor could really replace his offense but looking at free agents this offseason. Maybe Kolten Wong or Dansby Swanson could be options on shorter term deals to plug 2nd until Yorke is ready or Hamilton and/or Downs forces their way up. Obviously the way things are trending on Downs I'm not holding my breath there but either way should Xander leave I'd hate for them to just say well story your ss now and we're gonna roll with what we have in the system no matter what for 2nd base. They'd be in a world of hurt if Xander leaves, they replace him with someone in the system and then as rookies do they struggle.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 15, 2022 13:14:30 GMT -5
I don't see a way in hell that Downs or Hamilton is the 2B next year over Arroyo.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 15, 2022 20:52:22 GMT -5
I don't see a way in hell that Downs or Hamilton is the 2B next year over Arroyo. Arroyo's injury history says hello. If you're entrusting 2b to Arroyo it's smart to have a viable backup plan.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 16, 2022 14:49:42 GMT -5
I don't see a way in hell that Downs or Hamilton is the 2B next year over Arroyo. Arroyo's injury history says hello. If you're entrusting 2b to Arroyo it's smart to have a viable backup plan. But why would anyone believe that Arroyo would be Downs or Hamilton's backup and not the starter if healthy?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 16, 2022 16:08:54 GMT -5
Arroyo's injury history says hello. If you're entrusting 2b to Arroyo it's smart to have a viable backup plan. But why would anyone believe that Arroyo would be Downs or Hamilton's backup and not the starter if healthy? If healthy is the key phrase. Again check Arroyo's injury track record. Having a guy capable of being an every day in case of an Arroyo injury makes sense.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 16, 2022 16:44:08 GMT -5
But why would anyone believe that Arroyo would be Downs or Hamilton's backup and not the starter if healthy? If healthy is the key phrase. Again check Arroyo's injury track record. Having a guy capable of being an every day in case of an Arroyo injury makes sense. That makes either Downs or Hamilton Arroyo's backup then.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 16, 2022 21:54:50 GMT -5
If healthy is the key phrase. Again check Arroyo's injury track record. Having a guy capable of being an every day in case of an Arroyo injury makes sense. That makes either Downs or Hamilton Arroyo's backup then. In a sense yes, but when you factor in that Arroyo has never approached a full season's worth of AB in any season, then you have to figure that a lot of playing time is up for grabs....unless you pencil on Arroyo for 500 AB which I wouldn't do. So a backup who could step in every day is a big deal and my larger point is that Hamilton could leap Downs in that regard. I mean I would think that when the Betts deal was made Bloom was probably hoping that they found their 2b of the future.
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Post by bosoxnation on Apr 17, 2022 0:40:34 GMT -5
In regards to what was just being discussed in the Devers extension thread that was halted by Chris, rightfully, as being off topic. When we discuss the return on the Mookie deal I think most would say that Downs was supposed to be a big part of that return and his performance to date has been nothing short of terrible. If he had continued to be a top prospect then the debate would be very different, what if he was actually the starting 2nd baseman and producing? Yeah I know prospects are suspects and he is proof. Wrong, Brusdar Graterol was the return with Verdugo. We got spooked by Graterols medical review. Took Downs and Wong instead. So he was the backup option and Verdugo was all we really counted on and he has been nothing short of great since he’s come over for 1/4th of the price tag of Betts. I’m not giving up on Downs like everyone here. Tracy just came out saying his defense and base running are the best on the team and he had a good series despite not hitting for avg. I think he can be a good backup SS/2nd baseman. If he figures out a few things and can hit for a better avg he could be our starting 2nd next year, which is very possible seeing he’s only 23 years old.
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Post by nuttyredsox on Apr 17, 2022 2:52:56 GMT -5
Also, the return in the Mookie deal was getting ready of Price and half of his contract, don't forget that.
Verdugo can justify the deal by himself the way is looking.
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Post by jmei on Apr 17, 2022 6:50:15 GMT -5
/sigh
This is the Jeter Downs thread and let’s try to stay on topic. Thanks.
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Post by jaffinator on Apr 17, 2022 10:26:58 GMT -5
/sigh This is the Jeter Downs thread and let’s try to stay on topic. Thanks. imgur.com/a/mEEym9I
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 17, 2022 11:05:35 GMT -5
In regards to what was just being discussed in the Devers extension thread that was halted by Chris, rightfully, as being off topic. When we discuss the return on the Mookie deal I think most would say that Downs was supposed to be a big part of that return and his performance to date has been nothing short of terrible. If he had continued to be a top prospect then the debate would be very different, what if he was actually the starting 2nd baseman and producing? Yeah I know prospects are suspects and he is proof. Wrong, Brusdar Graterol was the return with Verdugo. We got spooked by Graterols medical review. Took Downs and Wong instead. So he was the backup option and Verdugo was all we really counted on and he has been nothing short of great since he’s come over for 1/4th of the price tag of Betts. I’m not giving up on Downs like everyone here. Tracy just came out saying his defense and base running are the best on the team and he had a good series despite not hitting for avg. I think he can be a good backup SS/2nd baseman. If he figures out a few things and can hit for a better avg he could be our starting 2nd next year, which is very possible seeing he’s only 23 years old. Wrong? Your talking in what shoulda or coulda while I'm talking about the reality of what actually happened and I am wrong. Bringing up Graterol at this point is just a waste of time, it didn't happen. What did happen is that the Sox got Downs and he has been a disappointment to this point. I mean he was ranked as high as the #44 prospect in baseball at the time of the trade and now what is he? So yeah it is a major factor in judging the Mookie trade. I certainly hope he turns it around but I am not holding my breathe. Just think about the guys who have hit really well in Worcester, Franchy, Duran, but couldn't hit a thing in Boston and realize he can't even hit down there, he has a long way to go.
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Post by bosoxnation on Apr 17, 2022 11:33:29 GMT -5
Wrong, Brusdar Graterol was the return with Verdugo. We got spooked by Graterols medical review. Took Downs and Wong instead. So he was the backup option and Verdugo was all we really counted on and he has been nothing short of great since he’s come over for 1/4th of the price tag of Betts. I’m not giving up on Downs like everyone here. Tracy just came out saying his defense and base running are the best on the team and he had a good series despite not hitting for avg. I think he can be a good backup SS/2nd baseman. If he figures out a few things and can hit for a better avg he could be our starting 2nd next year, which is very possible seeing he’s only 23 years old. Wrong? Your talking in what shoulda or coulda while I'm talking about the reality of what actually happened and I am wrong. Bringing up Graterol at this point is just a waste of time, it didn't happen. What did happen is that the Sox got Downs and he has been a disappointment to this point. I mean he was ranked as high as the #44 prospect in baseball at the time of the trade and now what is he? So yeah it is a major factor in judging the Mookie trade. I certainly hope he turns it around but I am not holding my breathe. Just think about the guys who have hit really well in Worcester, Franchy, Duran, but couldn't hit a thing in Boston and realize he can't even hit down there, he has a long way to go. WRONG! lol i’m sorry i misread what you said. I saw you said supposed to and I ran with it. You need to give these guys regular ABs in the majors before saying they can’t hit. Idk if you played baseball but getting to play every day is a lot different and easier then playing a few days here and there. Franchy and Duran have what 175 ABs combined in a Sox Uniform? That’s not enough to say they can’t hit. If they both got 10 more hits then they are hitting what .350? It’s really to small of a sample size to make that statement. Downs is only 23. I think we need to be a little more patient with him.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 17, 2022 17:20:31 GMT -5
Wrong? Your talking in what shoulda or coulda while I'm talking about the reality of what actually happened and I am wrong. Bringing up Graterol at this point is just a waste of time, it didn't happen. What did happen is that the Sox got Downs and he has been a disappointment to this point. I mean he was ranked as high as the #44 prospect in baseball at the time of the trade and now what is he? So yeah it is a major factor in judging the Mookie trade. I certainly hope he turns it around but I am not holding my breathe. Just think about the guys who have hit really well in Worcester, Franchy, Duran, but couldn't hit a thing in Boston and realize he can't even hit down there, he has a long way to go. WRONG! lol i’m sorry i misread what you said. I saw you said supposed to and I ran with it. You need to give these guys regular ABs in the majors before saying they can’t hit. Idk if you played baseball but getting to play every day is a lot different and easier then playing a few days here and there. Franchy and Duran have what 175 ABs combined in a Sox Uniform? That’s not enough to say they can’t hit. If they both got 10 more hits then they are hitting what .350? It’s really to small of a sample size to make that statement. Downs is only 23. I think we need to be a little more patient with him. I agree with you but there is an inherent problem with that when a team is competing to win every game. It is just hard to go thru the growing pains. I am a big Dalbec fan and think he will be a very good player but it is hard for the team to give consistent ab's when he doesn't produce. Yes they need consistent AB's but at what cost to the team. Perdoia came up and sucked for a month and a half then went on to win the ROY award because Francona stuck with him. Bottom line is it is tough to let guys develop at the ML level when every game counts but that is what the Sox will have to navigate to accomplish their goals.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 17, 2022 17:29:08 GMT -5
This is the second request to keep this thread about Jeter Downs. Further posts will be deleted. Thanks.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 17, 2022 18:23:18 GMT -5
What does that mean? We have to keep it to what he is doing currently and not his history with the team?
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Post by jmei on Apr 17, 2022 21:48:32 GMT -5
It means that this is not the thread to (sigh) revisit the Betts trade.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 18, 2022 5:41:11 GMT -5
Ok {sigh} the trade never happened and is now wiped from memory and history books never to be discussed again.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,075
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Post by cdj on Apr 18, 2022 6:54:52 GMT -5
Every thread doesn’t *have* to devolve into talk about the Mookie trade. It gets kind of insufferable and I appreciate that they want to keep that out of here so we can actually get updates about the player and I don’t have to hear everybody’s opinion of the Mookie deal for the 75th time each
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