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Coronavirus thread tangent
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 30, 2020 23:24:45 GMT -5
We will have to see but I think the dictatorial countries like Singapore and Cuba will fare better than the democracies. That's not meant as a political endorsement, just an opinion relative to the virus. I agree with this. It's easier to get something done in a situation like this. Also, we probably could have flattened the curve just slightly more early on or potentially been in earlier development of a vaccine or even just getting the medical supplies ready, earlier which we're still experiencing shortages on.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2020 7:49:20 GMT -5
If you believe how they are counting numbers I guess. But 80% of people with coronavirus show almost no symptoms and have no reason to even go to a doctor or get tested. So the number is surely lower. As with every sickness and disease, work on improving your immune system and there is nothing to ever fear. Don't wait for "help" from big pharma and government. We're far more likely to get cancer from our environments than we are to die from some mysterious magical bug. Humans wouldn't even exist if they couldn't fight off all viruses most of the time. Wow I'm so glad we have someone like you on the board, zero reasons to worry we just need to work on improving our immune systems! So please tell me how I do that? I'm 37 years old and have had psoriatic arthritis since I was 16. I'm on Remicade which weakens my immune system. The common cold takes 2-3 weeks before my body can fight it off. I'm just so thankful for people like you spreading lies and misinformation. Let me guess you're a big fan of Andrew Wakefield? I can't wait for the day they can change my dna and fix my auto-immune disease, yet my Doctor tells me that is 10 to 20 years in the future. UMass, have you seen unnatural selection on Netflix? If not, check it out. Gnome editing is here already.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 31, 2020 8:04:39 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2020 8:06:12 GMT -5
A view from another country. The Philippines (population a little over 100 million) now has 636 confirmed cases and 39 deaths where Covid-19 is suspected. Fortunately for us, we don't have much political turmoil since the President is enormously popular. I say fortunately because the entire country is pretty much taking this seriously. We don't have spring break beach parties going on. Even the churches have shut down in spite of being a heavily Christian country. The Senate has given the President pretty much unlimited powers: 1. He now has the authority to rearrange the budget where monies are needed for fighting the virus. Hospitals, for example are likely to be huge beneficiaries. 2. He now has the authority for the government to take control of all public utilities which are privately owned. Electric, water, internet, communications, etc. It's unlikely that he will exercise that power but, I'm guessing the government will do some dictating on pricing to consumers. 3. He now has a similar authority to the USA wartime act which allows him to dictate production at privately owned manufacturing firms. Fortunately, several companies have already changed production. San Miguel (beer) is now producing hand sanitizer and disinfectant and wholesaling it at cost. Like the USA, beer is popular here so, that one company can produce the entire country's needs. Other companies like Coca-Cola, are donating their advertising budgets to hospitals. We have an isolation island under construction by the Army. It's already capable of taking in patients but it's intent is if the hospitals become overcrowded so no patients at this time, just planning for a worst case scenario. China has already sent free medical equipment and is likely to send more. The Philippines was one of only two countries to send medical supplies to Wutan in the early going and President Xi has said they won't forget that. It’s easier for a Dictator to shut things down because if you don’t comply really bad things will happen to you. In the US, we value our freedoms more. There’s a cost to them and it makes things less efficient and yes, if you have a good dictator things can function better. The problem is good dictators don’t last.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2020 8:09:37 GMT -5
I’m upset I missed the vaccination conversation with Jim. Where’d you go Jimbo?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 31, 2020 8:13:55 GMT -5
I think this is worth a watch.
Dr. David Price of Weill Cornell Medical Center in New York City shares information in a Mar. 22 Zoom call with family and friends on empowering and protecting families during the COVID-19 pandemic.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 31, 2020 11:22:30 GMT -5
A view from another country. The Philippines (population a little over 100 million) now has 636 confirmed cases and 39 deaths where Covid-19 is suspected. Fortunately for us, we don't have much political turmoil since the President is enormously popular. I say fortunately because the entire country is pretty much taking this seriously. We don't have spring break beach parties going on. Even the churches have shut down in spite of being a heavily Christian country. The Senate has given the President pretty much unlimited powers: 1. He now has the authority to rearrange the budget where monies are needed for fighting the virus. Hospitals, for example are likely to be huge beneficiaries. 2. He now has the authority for the government to take control of all public utilities which are privately owned. Electric, water, internet, communications, etc. It's unlikely that he will exercise that power but, I'm guessing the government will do some dictating on pricing to consumers. 3. He now has a similar authority to the USA wartime act which allows him to dictate production at privately owned manufacturing firms. Fortunately, several companies have already changed production. San Miguel (beer) is now producing hand sanitizer and disinfectant and wholesaling it at cost. Like the USA, beer is popular here so, that one company can produce the entire country's needs. Other companies like Coca-Cola, are donating their advertising budgets to hospitals. We have an isolation island under construction by the Army. It's already capable of taking in patients but it's intent is if the hospitals become overcrowded so no patients at this time, just planning for a worst case scenario. China has already sent free medical equipment and is likely to send more. The Philippines was one of only two countries to send medical supplies to Wutan in the early going and President Xi has said they won't forget that. It’s easier for a Dictator to shut things down because if you don’t comply really bad things will happen to you. In the US, we value our freedoms more. There’s a cost to them and it makes things less efficient and yes, if you have a good dictator things can function better. The problem is good dictators don’t last. That would seem to apply to Singapore which is a dictatorship but has had a father/son set of leaders for many years now. That's one of the best standard of living countries in the world with one of the happiest populations according to external polls. They are also up there with health, education and per capita millionaires. I've never been to Singapore but that's pretty much how it appears to be. so I'm just commenting from the outside in.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2020 14:07:25 GMT -5
It’s easier for a Dictator to shut things down because if you don’t comply really bad things will happen to you. In the US, we value our freedoms more. There’s a cost to them and it makes things less efficient and yes, if you have a good dictator things can function better. The problem is good dictators don’t last. That would seem to apply to Singapore which is a dictatorship but has had a father/son set of leaders for many years now. That's one of the best standard of living countries in the world with one of the happiest populations according to external polls. They are also up there with health, education and per capita millionaires. I've never been to Singapore but that's pretty much how it appears to be. so I'm just commenting from the outside in. Yea publicly caning people for things like vandalism has a way to keep the population “in-line”. But as far as dictators go they are good and smart as they provide for their people. That won’t last tho.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 31, 2020 18:47:54 GMT -5
That would seem to apply to Singapore which is a dictatorship but has had a father/son set of leaders for many years now. That's one of the best standard of living countries in the world with one of the happiest populations according to external polls. They are also up there with health, education and per capita millionaires. I've never been to Singapore but that's pretty much how it appears to be. so I'm just commenting from the outside in. Yea publicly caning people for things like vandalism has a way to keep the population “in-line”. But as far as dictators go they are good and smart as they provide for their people. That won’t last tho. I'm not sure what you mean by "last" but Lee Kuan Yew and his son Lee Hsien Loong have been in power since 1959. Like I said, I haven't been there but Pulse Asia which is not a Singapore company always come up with positive polls. I also don't know what freedoms you enjoy that they don't enjoy. Having a government that is tough on crime is a plus to freedom not a minus. From the outside, it seems their people have far less to fear from crime than from their government because their crime rates are also very very low. Relative to the virus, I would think that's a plus but like I said, I don't live in Singapore. I should think that any government popular with the people would be a plus. It's certainly a plus here. We're an island with 100,000 people and no virus cases and yet our streets are empty. Just from talking to people and seeing social media, the primary driver here is respect for each other. Having a President who's NET trust ratings hover in the low 80's is certainly a plus when that President says people should stay home. Our mayors are the second line of power here and even the opposition party mayors are all pretty much preaching the same line and are pretty much all closing down non essential large businesses. I haven't been to Davao since the outbreak but friends in Davao say the same about it. Here, you can't get a haircut or get your clothes washed, they've voluntarily closed but I was able to get a tire fixed and get gas for my motorcycle yesterday. There also doesn't appear to be any shortages, shelves are still stocked but the open stores are requiring maska and having people disinfect their shoes, get their temperatures taken and hands sprayed plus you have to respect social distancing (WHO wants it called physical distancing). For places like supermarkets, there's a queue outside the store.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Mar 31, 2020 20:07:48 GMT -5
Your island must be very remote within the archipelago as the Philippines have now reported almost 2100 case and over 500 in the past 24 hours. www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countriesStay safe and keep you bike fueled. Good luck
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 31, 2020 20:14:39 GMT -5
Your island must be very remote within the archipelago as the Philippines have now reported almost 2100 case and over 500 in the past 24 hours. www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countriesStay safe and keep you bike fueled. Good luck Yes, we follow it directly ncovtracker.doh.gov.ph/ (updated once a day) and on their Facebook page with multiple posts daily. More than 95% of the cases are in the north, near Manila or on that island. So far our closest city Davao which is directly across the bay, only has 40 cases and only two of those are native to Davao, most are residents transported from Manila for care. As the bird flies, my house is about 2 miles from Davao International Airport. The Philippines population at 100 million is the 12th largest in the world. Comparatively speaking, we've been extremely lucky but also extremely vigilant. You stay safe as well. ADD: The known cases were expected to rise but to a large extent because of a major increase in testing. Early on, there were only two countries, the Philippines and France which sent medical supplies to Wutan. China is flooding both countries with medical supplies. We now have testing machines capable of processing 1000 tests a day and an influx of ventilators to all our care facilities. ADD2: Right now, San Miguel Corp. (beer) is producing 100,000 liters a day of alcohol based disinfectants. They are donating it free including shipping to hospitals and first response workers. They are also converting two other plants and expect to produce 300,000 liters a day within a few weeks. A far different billionaire than the Bruins owner. www.facebook.com/OfficialDOHgov/photos/a.157979910879936/3192110657466831/?type=3&theater
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 1, 2020 0:04:12 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 1, 2020 6:16:16 GMT -5
Yea publicly caning people for things like vandalism has a way to keep the population “in-line”. But as far as dictators go they are good and smart as they provide for their people. That won’t last tho. I'm not sure what you mean by "last" but Lee Kuan Yew and his son Lee Hsien Loong have been in power since 1959. Like I said, I haven't been there but Pulse Asia which is not a Singapore company always come up with positive polls. I also don't know what freedoms you enjoy that they don't enjoy. Having a government that is tough on crime is a plus to freedom not a minus. From the outside, it seems their people have far less to fear from crime than from their government because their crime rates are also very very low. Relative to the virus, I would think that's a plus but like I said, I don't live in Singapore. I should think that any government popular with the people would be a plus. It's certainly a plus here. We're an island with 100,000 people and no virus cases and yet our streets are empty. Just from talking to people and seeing social media, the primary driver here is respect for each other. Having a President who's NET trust ratings hover in the low 80's is certainly a plus when that President says people should stay home. Our mayors are the second line of power here and even the opposition party mayors are all pretty much preaching the same line and are pretty much all closing down non essential large businesses. I haven't been to Davao since the outbreak but friends in Davao say the same about it. Here, you can't get a haircut or get your clothes washed, they've voluntarily closed but I was able to get a tire fixed and get gas for my motorcycle yesterday. There also doesn't appear to be any shortages, shelves are still stocked but the open stores are requiring maska and having people disinfect their shoes, get their temperatures taken and hands sprayed plus you have to respect social distancing (WHO wants it called physical distancing). For places like supermarkets, there's a queue outside the store. By “last”, I mean at some point there will be a dictator in place that basically enslaves a certain class of their people or “opposition”. They have the ability to suppress free speech in Singapore (not that they are alone - even the UK doesn’t have free speech). Like I said, if you have the right dictator a lot of things are easier to get done and life can even be better as a whole for a nation in many many ways. However, I try and avoid any governmental structure that if used improperly can take everything away from its citizens even if that “makes life worse” today.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 1, 2020 7:13:06 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean by "last" but Lee Kuan Yew and his son Lee Hsien Loong have been in power since 1959. Like I said, I haven't been there but Pulse Asia which is not a Singapore company always come up with positive polls. I also don't know what freedoms you enjoy that they don't enjoy. Having a government that is tough on crime is a plus to freedom not a minus. From the outside, it seems their people have far less to fear from crime than from their government because their crime rates are also very very low. Relative to the virus, I would think that's a plus but like I said, I don't live in Singapore. I should think that any government popular with the people would be a plus. It's certainly a plus here. We're an island with 100,000 people and no virus cases and yet our streets are empty. Just from talking to people and seeing social media, the primary driver here is respect for each other. Having a President who's NET trust ratings hover in the low 80's is certainly a plus when that President says people should stay home. Our mayors are the second line of power here and even the opposition party mayors are all pretty much preaching the same line and are pretty much all closing down non essential large businesses. I haven't been to Davao since the outbreak but friends in Davao say the same about it. Here, you can't get a haircut or get your clothes washed, they've voluntarily closed but I was able to get a tire fixed and get gas for my motorcycle yesterday. There also doesn't appear to be any shortages, shelves are still stocked but the open stores are requiring maska and having people disinfect their shoes, get their temperatures taken and hands sprayed plus you have to respect social distancing (WHO wants it called physical distancing). For places like supermarkets, there's a queue outside the store. By “last”, I mean at some point there will be a dictator in place that basically enslaves a certain class of their people or “opposition”. They have the ability to suppress free speech in Singapore (not that they are alone - even the UK doesn’t have free speech). Like I said, if you have the right dictator a lot of things are easier to get done and life can even be better as a whole for a nation in many many ways. However, I try and avoid any governmental structure that if used improperly can take everything away from its citizens even if that “makes life worse” today. We're getting off topic relative to my opening remark that, right or wrong, dictatorships seem likely to be in a better position to deal with the virus since lockdowns are a vital step All dictatorships aren't created equal. They run the gamut from kingdoms and military juntas to selection by group (for example the communist party). LOL, right now the king of Thailand has rented an entire hotel in Germany and is there with an entourage of 100 servants and 20 girls, none of which are his wife. Thailand is not likely to come out well. Singapore's Prime Minister requires the approval of the ruling party's assembly. If he pisses people off, he's gone.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 1, 2020 9:10:10 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 11:11:46 GMT -5
Yeah, zero cases is kind of ridiculous. However it is the end of cold/flu season and presumably corona virus season too, so it's reasonable to assume that cases are going to drop off across many countries. One other thing (not directly related to this post) - our media sucks too. Our media's tendency to sensationalize for the sake of ratings is generally unhelpful and uninformative. This case isn't much different, I've had to dig for most of the information I'm concerned about and I just don't have time to look for all the answers/opinions I'd like to see. I'd love some informed opinions regarding the mortality rates, spread of the disease, and our approach to handling this but I haven't seen much. I'm all for caution, but I'm having trouble understanding our current course of action and an intelligent and informative media world go a long way in helping people understand.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 1, 2020 11:25:43 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 1, 2020 11:37:51 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 1, 2020 11:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 1, 2020 19:57:00 GMT -5
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 1, 2020 22:04:37 GMT -5
Hmm. On the one hand, every public health expert in the world. On the other hand, jimed14 at soxprospects dot com. Thanks for doing your small part to spread misinformation and make all of us less safe, jimed. Not all heroes wear capes, as they say. Yes, the appeal to authority is all anyone has when trying to be logical. I guess the public health experts at the ISS in Italy didn't get the memo. Jimed it's not just Italy! The whole world is dealing with this new disease! The U.S. has almost twice as many confirmed cases as any other country. The coffee is brewing. Take a whiff.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 2, 2020 7:31:54 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 2, 2020 9:40:38 GMT -5
Still verrrrrrrry lucky here:
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Post by incandenza on Apr 2, 2020 10:51:15 GMT -5
Geez. It's kind of troubling to read this thread and see that it's an apparently widespread assumption that authoritarian governments "get things done" more effectively than democracies. I think that's totally backwards. For one thing, China's authoritarian tendencies led it to downplay the virus in the earliest, most critical stages; if not for that, maybe none of us would even be dealing with this right now. In general, authoritarians seek to control the flow of information and value appearance over fact, and these motivations are inconsistent with handling a crisis well. For another thing, we've seen that some of the countries with the best responses so far have been democracies, including South Korea. More authoritarian governments like Iran have done poorly. And finally, one of the big lessons of the last few years for me has been that authoritarians are not especially competent, contrary to the popular image of the savvy, calculating wielder of power. Rather, authoritarianism flows from incompetence, and vice versa - authoritarians are too clumsy to operate with a light touch, and then (for reasons mentioned above) their authoritarianism leads them to act stupidly. As for the Philippines' specific authoritarian leader: he has threatened genocide against drug addicts, threatened extrajudicial killings against journalists, admitted to some extrajudicial killings, and been tied to death squads in Davao City. Definitely the sort of person you could trust with extraordinary executive powers in full confidence that they won't be abused...
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 2, 2020 11:25:04 GMT -5
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