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Coronavirus thread tangent
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 2, 2020 12:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 2, 2020 13:29:07 GMT -5
I'm not going to retrace anything I've said about Duterte vs the western media. I will say this though. Like the USA, we follow English law. There is no freedom that law abiding American citizens have that law abiding Filipino citizens don't have.
ADD: We are way tougher on crime. Our child molesters aren't back on the streets after a few months.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 2, 2020 13:29:20 GMT -5
I thought this was a good video on the virus. Easy to break down and relate back to people. Seems like an honest straight shooting M.D.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 2, 2020 14:11:53 GMT -5
I'm not going to retrace anything I've said about Duterte vs the western media. I will say this though. Like the USA, we follow English law. There is no freedom that law abiding American citizens have that law abiding Filipino citizens don't have. ADD: We are way tougher on crime. Our child molesters aren't back on the streets after a few months. Yes, the United States famously goes way too easy on criminals. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 2, 2020 14:44:38 GMT -5
Geez. It's kind of troubling to read this thread and see that it's an apparently widespread assumption that authoritarian governments "get things done" more effectively than democracies. I think that's totally backwards. For one thing, China's authoritarian tendencies led it to downplay the virus in the earliest, most critical stages; if not for that, maybe none of us would even be dealing with this right now. In general, authoritarians seek to control the flow of information and value appearance over fact, and these motivations are inconsistent with handling a crisis well. For another thing, we've seen that some of the countries with the best responses so far have been democracies, including South Korea. More authoritarian governments like Iran have done poorly. And finally, one of the big lessons of the last few years for me has been that authoritarians are not especially competent, contrary to the popular image of the savvy, calculating wielder of power. Rather, authoritarianism flows from incompetence, and vice versa - authoritarians are too clumsy to operate with a light touch, and then (for reasons mentioned above) their authoritarianism leads them to act stupidly. As for the Philippines' specific authoritarian leader: he has threatened genocide against drug addicts, threatened extrajudicial killings against journalists, admitted to some extrajudicial killings, and been tied to death squads in Davao City. Definitely the sort of person you could trust with extraordinary executive powers in full confidence that they won't be abused... If you were referring to anything in my posts then you completely misread them. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 2, 2020 15:00:34 GMT -5
I'm not going to retrace anything I've said about Duterte vs the western media. I will say this though. Like the USA, we follow English law. There is no freedom that law abiding American citizens have that law abiding Filipino citizens don't have. ADD: We are way tougher on crime. Our child molesters aren't back on the streets after a few months. Yes, the United States famously goes way too easy on criminals. You don't think there a link between recidivism and short sentences ? That chart doesn't say much about American morality, eh ? |
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Post by incandenza on Apr 2, 2020 21:35:40 GMT -5
Geez. It's kind of troubling to read this thread and see that it's an apparently widespread assumption that authoritarian governments "get things done" more effectively than democracies. I think that's totally backwards. For one thing, China's authoritarian tendencies led it to downplay the virus in the earliest, most critical stages; if not for that, maybe none of us would even be dealing with this right now. In general, authoritarians seek to control the flow of information and value appearance over fact, and these motivations are inconsistent with handling a crisis well. For another thing, we've seen that some of the countries with the best responses so far have been democracies, including South Korea. More authoritarian governments like Iran have done poorly. And finally, one of the big lessons of the last few years for me has been that authoritarians are not especially competent, contrary to the popular image of the savvy, calculating wielder of power. Rather, authoritarianism flows from incompetence, and vice versa - authoritarians are too clumsy to operate with a light touch, and then (for reasons mentioned above) their authoritarianism leads them to act stupidly. As for the Philippines' specific authoritarian leader: he has threatened genocide against drug addicts, threatened extrajudicial killings against journalists, admitted to some extrajudicial killings, and been tied to death squads in Davao City. Definitely the sort of person you could trust with extraordinary executive powers in full confidence that they won't be abused... If you were referring to anything in my posts then you completely misread them. It wasn't mainly referring to you. Though this did raise an eyebrow: Even acknowledging the context that you're saying "good dictators don't last," I just don't think it's right that our freedoms make things less efficient. I mean, it's complicated, but all else being equal a free, democratic society is a more efficient and productive society. |
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Post by incandenza on Apr 2, 2020 21:40:34 GMT -5
Yes, the United States famously goes way too easy on criminals. You don't think there a link between recidivism and short sentences ? That chart doesn't say much about American morality, eh ? I'm not sure I know what you're getting at, but I don't think Americans are 5x more immoral than people in other western nations. I think the cruel and punitive nature of our prison system does encourage recidivism, though, and countries with less punitive systems also have lower incarceration rates, as in Norway. But I suppose we're getting off-topic from the off-topic thread.  |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 2, 2020 22:33:13 GMT -5
You don't think there a link between recidivism and short sentences ? That chart doesn't say much about American morality, eh ? I'm not sure I know what you're getting at, but I don't think Americans are 5x more immoral than people in other western nations. I think the cruel and punitive nature of our prison system does encourage recidivism, though, and countries with less punitive systems also have lower incarceration rates, as in Norway. But I suppose we're getting off-topic from the off-topic thread. Our systems are private which doesn't help. The Supreme Court had to tell Kamala Harris to release prisoners in California because it was overcrowded and considered inhumane. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 3:06:13 GMT -5
The Philippines government is re-purposing 14 large complexes for an expected rise in Covid cases.   As of yesterday, we had 2633 cases with 107 deaths. Still no cases on the island I am on. All of the sites are up north where more than 95% of the Covid-19 positives are. I'm sure that if the south's numbers start to rise fast, they will do the same here. ADD:  |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 3:26:47 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 3, 2020 5:55:48 GMT -5
If you were referring to anything in my posts then you completely misread them. It wasn't mainly referring to you. Though this did raise an eyebrow: Even acknowledging the context that you're saying "good dictators don't last," I just don't think it's right that our freedoms make things less efficient. I mean, it's complicated, but all else being equal a free, democratic society is a more efficient and productive society. You and I agree so it’s likely not worth expanding this discussion but you are missing the point. I was focused on one point but yes the expansion of that is a free society is the better society, but it’s that way because power corrupts people. This was about the ability for quick action. There’s no argument that one decision maker with absolute authority can make quicker decisions than our form of government. That’s not saying that way of governing is better. It’s just an acknowledgment of a reality. We have to acknowledge that and resist any feeling at times like these that that’s a better way. We live in a world where people want a solution to the problem in front of them and don’t think about ramifications. We do this with laws all the time. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 6:34:54 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 3, 2020 7:21:28 GMT -5
It’s also a byproduct of an unhealthy and diverse population. It’s a lot easier to provide healthcare for a homogeneous populous and one that lives a much healthier lifestyle. |
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Post by incandenza on Apr 3, 2020 12:31:22 GMT -5
It wasn't mainly referring to you. Though this did raise an eyebrow: Even acknowledging the context that you're saying "good dictators don't last," I just don't think it's right that our freedoms make things less efficient. I mean, it's complicated, but all else being equal a free, democratic society is a more efficient and productive society. You and I agree so it’s likely not worth expanding this discussion but you are missing the point. I was focused on one point but yes the expansion of that is a free society is the better society, but it’s that way because power corrupts people. This was about the ability for quick action. There’s no argument that one decision maker with absolute authority can make quicker decisions than our form of government. That’s not saying that way of governing is better. It’s just an acknowledgment of a reality. We have to acknowledge that and resist any feeling at times like these that that’s a better way. We live in a world where people want a solution to the problem in front of them and don’t think about ramifications. We do this with laws all the time. I see what you're saying. I guess I would quibble that "making quick decisions" is not the same as being efficient, but I think this is basically an issue of semantics. We'll just have to agree to agree on this one. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 3, 2020 15:51:52 GMT -5
Coronavirus Cases (US):
271,152
Deaths:
6,946
Death count is now 2.56%
Coronavirus Cases (Italy):
119,827
Deaths:
19,758
Death count is now 16.49%
If not contained, I shudder to think what the mortality rate will be in the US when we peak.
Open cases vs death is a nicer, rosier optic when you look at the official closed cases:
US:
Cases which had an outcome: 18,961
Recovered / Discharged:
12,015 (63.37%)
Deaths:
6,946 (36.63%)
Italy:
Cases which had an outcome: 34,439
Recovered / Discharged
19,758 (57%)
Deaths
14,681 (43%)
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Apr 3, 2020 18:45:22 GMT -5
One problem with looking at the recovered/death stats as a percent of cases is that the resolution takes 7 to 14 days from the time a case is considered severe enough to track to an outcome. That means that the denominator should be total cases from 7 to 14 days earlier all of which makes the whole situation even scarier.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 19:06:09 GMT -5
One problem with looking at the recovered/death stats as a percent of cases is that the resolution takes 7 to 14 days from the time a case is considered severe enough to track to an outcome. That means that the denominator should be total cases from 7 to 14 days earlier all of which makes the whole situation even scarier. This and looking at it the other way around, initially since recovery takes a period of time which is greater than the period of time for a death to occur, very early on, the death rates will by even more heavily weighted. Using Davao city as an example, it's been about 3 weeks since the first case was reported. there are now 51 cases, 6 deaths and 2 recoveries. Very disproportionate numbers including the cases because it's only been about a week that they've had a machine capable of processing 1000 tests a day. The numbers for places that are further along the curve and in countries where you are likely to have transparency like Italy and Spain are far more telling. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 3, 2020 20:01:52 GMT -5
These are fair points, but it's also fair to say there's also pending death cases as well. People who are sick right now will die later. Admittedly, it's "only" 5% that are super, critical condition. Though, could you still die if you're in the 20% "severe" group? This is just sad. www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0OeJUBYx?s=a4&pd=048VaAncI wonder what happened to Jimed? |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 20:08:28 GMT -5
I just got this forwarded from a college friend. My friend that's typing is in Albuquerque New Mexico. No names so I'll post it because it shows there's also going to be collateral deaths although hopefully not my friend from college:
I had MRI's of my neck and brain on Tuesday. I have stenosis in my cervical spine, but my brain MRI shows I had a stroke. That explains what happened on February 25, when numbness started on my left side. I can still do everything, but it's always there. Waiting for Neurologist to schedule me, but they said it takes 5 to 7 BUSINESS days for them to get the medical records. Hope I don't have another one in the meantime!
I received my MRI results. A section of the right side of my brain is dead. Fighting to get a neurologist or my primary doctor to see me, no luck so far. Everyone has such tunnel vision on COVID-19, all other patients and conditions be damned.
I'm taking bets on what will kill me first; cancer, stroke or coronavirus. I fear I'm close to the end of my life.
ADD: He was born and raised in Danvers.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 20:40:45 GMT -5
Contemplating how life works (aiming at the younger guys here)...
For my friend above, like most long time friends, I have stories which affected the rest of my life. In Kevin's case, at UMass, I was living off campus as a Freshman. An incident involving Kevin and myself (lol, and Albert Camus, sortof) in my very first class at the school led Kevin to introduce me to his dorm floor where I moved to for my Sophomore year. I'm still friends and communicate with more than 20 of those people. That same incident also got me the girl I dated the entire Freshman year. That girl went on to become the principal of a high school in Rhode Island until she retired.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 3, 2020 21:56:19 GMT -5
I just got this forwarded from a college friend. My friend that's typing is in Albuquerque New Mexico. No names so I'll post it because it shows there's also going to be collateral deaths although hopefully not my friend from college: I had MRI's of my neck and brain on Tuesday. I have stenosis in my cervical spine, but my brain MRI shows I had a stroke. That explains what happened on February 25, when numbness started on my left side. I can still do everything, but it's always there. Waiting for Neurologist to schedule me, but they said it takes 5 to 7 BUSINESS days for them to get the medical records. Hope I don't have another one in the meantime!
I received my MRI results. A section of the right side of my brain is dead. Fighting to get a neurologist or my primary doctor to see me, no luck so far. Everyone has such tunnel vision on COVID-19, all other patients and conditions be damned.
I'm taking bets on what will kill me first; cancer, stroke or coronavirus. I fear I'm close to the end of my life.ADD: He was born and raised in Danvers. This is sad and I hope for the best for that gentleman. This world is a flippin' mess right now. Will all the money and power these countries have and people got to suffer because there really is no leadership in this world. This story was foretold and still no planning / coordination was undertaken. Well, I bet they will straighten up after this, sure as sh*t. The people on the front lines are doing every thing they effin' can, I can't imagine the pressure they are under. Hoping for the best for all you !!! |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 3, 2020 22:19:11 GMT -5
I'm afraid that it's going to have a personal affect one way or another on all of us who didn't lead their lives as hermits.
For my friend, my college classmates are now trying to do something behind the scenes. Several are in the medical field. There's already a video conference arranged with a neurologist. This has pretty much all happened in the last hour or so.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 4, 2020 5:17:13 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 4, 2020 9:24:28 GMT -5
Just opened up this thread and this is the first post. We can call this Exhibit A of just how wrong and misguided people can be, that's the nice way of putting it. I know we aren't supposed to get political on here but I have a pretty good idea where this thought originated. My daughter is a critical care nurse and she calls me crying every day with worry about how badly prepared they are for this. Not enough ventilaters, not enough masks, spreading the virus in the hospital because of a lack of supplies. If I get going I might just get kicked off this site. All I know is that proper leadership and fore thought from the beginning would have helped a lot more than the lies. You mean to tell me that the Great America couldn't produce these things in less than a month. Yup we are making America great again for sure. And now all they can say is stop pointing fingers. I for one will not stop pointing fingers, the man has literally cost many many lives and they still support him as he said they would. November is coming and I don't plan on being quiet. What a load of crap that is. Here's Dr. Fauci: www.facebook.com/cnsnewscom/videos/213870806487888/"Load of crap" I think it is pretty much accepted knowledge that Trump wasted 6 weeks of time while he lied and fretted about Wall Street, no refuting that. No plans, no listening to the experts, no leading just lies until he couldn't lie anymore. So now we are left reacting rather than acting. It is all in black and white, yup just another Democratic hoax or the common flu. This man is over is head and has been since day 1 and yet still his supporters defend him when his delays and inaction will cost thousands of lives. It is a sad simple fact. |
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