SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
8/20-8/23 Red Sox @ Orioles Series Thread
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 23, 2020 10:17:18 GMT -5
Verdugo is at 3.0 fWAR/4.4 bWAR in 481 PAs and is batting .295/.347/.490 since the start of last season. He's on pace for 25 HRs and ~4.4/6.1 f/bWAR over a full season (700 PA). And he just turned 24.
I think maybe he is really, really good?
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 10:33:42 GMT -5
Verdugo is at 3.0 fWAR/4.4 bWAR in 481 PAs and is batting .295/.347/.490 since the start of last season. He's on pace for 25 HRs and ~4.4/6.1 f/bWAR over a full season (700 PA). And he just turned 24. I think maybe he is really, really good? He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 23, 2020 10:45:44 GMT -5
Verdugo is at 3.0 fWAR/4.4 bWAR in 481 PAs and is batting .295/.347/.490 since the start of last season. He's on pace for 25 HRs and ~4.4/6.1 f/bWAR over a full season (700 PA). And he just turned 24. I think maybe he is really, really good? He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. LOL. I'm putting the over/under on you admitting to liking Verdugo at June 30, 2021.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 10:47:24 GMT -5
He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. LOL. I'm putting the over/under on you admitting to liking Verdugo at June 30, 2021. Oh, I’ll go higher. Since the Sox will be bad in 2021, he will continue to be mini-Mookie. 2022 at soonest.
|
|
|
Post by juanfatj on Aug 23, 2020 10:50:12 GMT -5
Verdugo is at 3.0 fWAR/4.4 bWAR in 481 PAs and is batting .295/.347/.490 since the start of last season. He's on pace for 25 HRs and ~4.4/6.1 f/bWAR over a full season (700 PA). And he just turned 24. I think maybe he is really, really good? He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. That's not really the case. If you factor in salary we can spread around the lost production across multiple positions. And with the cost controlled Verdugo eating up a chunk of that production you could actually come out better. Find a few above average OF to fill the other two spots, and we become a more balanced and cost effective OF. Then using the savings to fix the biggest problem on the team, the pitching.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2020 10:51:06 GMT -5
LOL. I'm putting the over/under on you admitting to liking Verdugo at June 30, 2021. Oh, I’ll go higher. Since the Sox will be bad in 2021, he will continue to be mini-Mookie. 2022 at soonest. Back in the day, you would have hated Yaz because he wasn't Teddy Ballgame. (You wouldn't have been alone).
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 23, 2020 10:52:47 GMT -5
trade barnes for a bag of balls.....if any team is even willing to part with that. I know this is a game thread, heat of the moment, etc but what reliever with a better track record or upside is available in the trade market right now ? Lots of teams looking for pitching. I am not sure if there is any upside left. When he pitches well, for stretches, he can be elite. Teams know that that isn't the case. is it telling that Hembree and Workman left before he did ? Not sure, but there is enough bad performance to depress his value, just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Canseco on Aug 23, 2020 10:55:14 GMT -5
If a desperate contender would roll the dice on Barnes, then I’d settle for a lower minors lotto ticket type as opposed to the at-or-near majors return from the Phillies.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 10:58:20 GMT -5
Oh, I’ll go higher. Since the Sox will be bad in 2021, he will continue to be mini-Mookie. 2022 at soonest. Back in the day, you would have hated Yaz because he wasn't Teddy Ballgame. (You wouldn't have been alone). Nah... we didn’t trade Williams to get Yaz.
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,653
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 23, 2020 10:59:17 GMT -5
Verdugo is at 3.0 fWAR/4.4 bWAR in 481 PAs and is batting .295/.347/.490 since the start of last season. He's on pace for 25 HRs and ~4.4/6.1 f/bWAR over a full season (700 PA). And he just turned 24. I think maybe he is really, really good? He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. It's not squarely on Verdugo. Think about it. Mookie is going to make about $30 million/year. Verdugo makes about $5 million, if that. So by downgrading from Betts from Verdugo and spending a lot less money, do you spend the money saved from that downgrade to upgrade other areas that were deficient? Does the cumulative of Verdugo plus money saved by not having Mookie equal Mookie plus those deficient areas? Right now the answer is no as they're in a long-term rebuild, I suspect. But down the road it can be if they get close enough. I do know that with Mookie, this team would still suck because the pitching is deficient and the offense is thin beyond the top 5 or 6 hitters. As we know, the idea this season was never to re-employ the money saved. It was to get under the luxury tax limit. Nothing else really mattered. Again, none of this is on verdugo. He did not demand that Mookie get traded for him. He's not the heavy here. Blame management if you feel this way. Not Verdugo.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 11:00:55 GMT -5
He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. That's not really the case. If you factor in salary we can spread around the lost production across multiple positions. And with the cost controlled Verdugo eating up a chunk of that production you could actually come out better. Find a few above average OF to fill the other two spots, and we become a more balanced and cost effective OF. Then using the savings to fix the biggest problem on the team, the pitching. That is still the point... the production must be spread around to make up the gap. I don’t wrote the checks, so the cost stuff is nor foremost on my mind. Of course it can be done... and I’ve been saying all along that now the outfield needs badly to add a far more productive CF or LF. That was less necessary before. So... we agree.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2020 11:03:47 GMT -5
He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. It's not squarely on Verdugo. Think about it. Mookie is going to make about $30 million/year. Verdugo makes about $5 million, if that. So by downgrading from Betts from Verdugo and spending a lot less money, do you spend the money saved from that downgrade to upgrade other areas that were deficient? Does the cumulative of Verdugo plus money saved by not having Mookie equal Mookie plus those deficient areas? Right now the answer is no as they're in a long-term rebuild, I suspect. But down the road it can be if they get close enough. I do know that with Mookie, this team would still suck because the pitching is deficient and the offense is thin beyond the top 5 or 6 hitters. As we know, the idea this season was never to re-employ the money saved. It was to get under the luxury tax limit. Nothing else really mattered. Again, none of this is on verdugo. He did not demand that Mookie get traded for him. He's not the heavy here. Blame management if you feel this way. Not Verdugo. Verdugo is minimum wage.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 23, 2020 11:06:18 GMT -5
That third base send on Verdugo reminded of....Wendell "Send him in" Kim.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 11:06:46 GMT -5
He’ll have to be to keep the gap close on the lost production in right field. It's not squarely on Verdugo. Think about it. Mookie is going to make about $30 million/year. Verdugo makes about $5 million, if that. So by downgrading from Betts from Verdugo and spending a lot less money, do you spend the money saved from that downgrade to upgrade other areas that were deficient? Does the cumulative of Verdugo plus money saved by not having Mookie equal Mookie plus those deficient areas? Right now the answer is no as they're in a long-term rebuild, I suspect. But down the road it can be if they get close enough. I do know that with Mookie, this team would still suck because the pitching is deficient and the offense is thin beyond the top 5 or 6 hitters. As we know, the idea this season was never to re-employ the money saved. It was to get under the luxury tax limit. Nothing else really mattered. Again, none of this is on verdugo. He did not demand that Mookie get traded for him. He's not the heavy here. Blame management if you feel this way. Not Verdugo. Again... nothing here I disagree with. But the point I made was simply that there is lost production that has to be found elsewhere. That tempers my enthusiasm. So in fact that is actually one more thing on the to-do list. Upgrade something to stand still. Yes, the money saved can go elsewhere. Hasn’t yet. And if it goes badly (as it has, well, more often than not in the last 10 years), it will merely rub salt in the wounds. 2022 at the earliest for my blessing. Edit: or, put differently, until the savings go into something concrete, it is a demonstrable loss. That is a statistical fact. Now, next year they’ll be reset (bismillah) and have all that dough. Only then can we see if the Sox came out ahead. Otherwise, that ratio of dollars to production just means how much extra John Henry pockets.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 23, 2020 11:21:33 GMT -5
A lot of the Barnes negativity is over reaction. He's not a closer and won't ever be one. proven that before, just like Taz did when he was with the Sox. not all good late inning setup guys can handle the closers job and that is just 2. Maybe Roenicke thought he owed Barnes the chance last night, or felt (probably) nobody else left, after brasier had already pitched had a chance, but he should probably rotate around both Brasier and barnes until he Taylor gets up to speed and Waldon back with the club to help out. I am not sure it is over reaction more than frustration over 6 years. He has 2.9 bWar during that time. His career walk rate is 4.3/9. He nibbles, despite having above average stuff. I have seen enough of him, and I was a big believer for a long time. He should have been a better reliever, acknowledging that he is better than league average.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 11:25:16 GMT -5
A lot of the Barnes negativity is over reaction. He's not a closer and won't ever be one. proven that before, just like Taz did when he was with the Sox. not all good late inning setup guys can handle the closers job and that is just 2. Maybe Roenicke thought he owed Barnes the chance last night, or felt (probably) nobody else left, after brasier had already pitched had a chance, but he should probably rotate around both Brasier and barnes until he Taylor gets up to speed and Waldon back with the club to help out. I am not sure it is over reaction more than frustration over 6 years. He has 2.9 bWar during that time. His career walk rate is 4.3/9. He nibbles, despite having above average stuff. I have seen enough of him, and I was a big believer for a long time. He should have been a better reliever, acknowledging that he is better than league average. He nibbles AND he has meltdowns when he is all over the place. I think he is one of those guys who does well enough to have decent cumulative numbers, but I never feel good about him coming in game to game. And he does not seem to be a high pressure guy, either. Or, as I’d say to GMs on other teams: guy’s great! Look at his track record!
|
|
|
Post by juanfatj on Aug 23, 2020 11:49:35 GMT -5
Completely unrealistic expectation of Perez, he’s really got you fooled. I was not a fan of Perez before the season, but he’s looked good. If they have an option, I’d still shop him but with a higher price. I don’t know what he’d look like over a full season (he declined last year... I know, not a perfect arc, more up and down), but if he has a strong first half, he’d pair well with Sale. Anyway, a relatively cheap bird in the hand is better than, er, something in the bush? If they let him go, they’ll need to find someone much like him. ERod, Eovaldi, Perez, 1/2Sale, maybe Mata and/or Pivetta + TBA between trades and signings is not a championship rotation, but it is more competitive than this year. It is also far more interesting to watch. I 100% agree that we shouldn't just give Perez away. You can count on him to throw strikes, and he has looked really good to me. Add in his cheap contract and unless blown away on an offer for him he should stay.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 23, 2020 12:07:06 GMT -5
game watching today. Pillar !!
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 23, 2020 12:11:18 GMT -5
Chaim needs to trade Pillar ASAP before he wins more games.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 23, 2020 12:13:19 GMT -5
Not good for LeBlanc
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 12:19:02 GMT -5
Bad. He looked uncomfortable in Xander’s at bat. I hope he’s ok.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 23, 2020 12:40:51 GMT -5
I feel content saying the only question to which Godley is the answer is “how can we get a high draft pick?”
|
|
cutz
Veteran
Posts: 2,321
|
Post by cutz on Aug 23, 2020 12:57:59 GMT -5
When will a pitcher throw the ball near Nunez? (because he's now where near the on-deck circle)
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 23, 2020 12:58:55 GMT -5
I don't agree with this, Phils. Adding a high-quality college SP prospect like Jack Leiter has more value than a stockpile of lottery tickets like the kind we got for BWM and HH. I'm all in on having the worst record in the AL. I also don't think CB trades Perez. He has a 2021 team option for $6.25M. That's an incredible value for a guy who appears to be, at worst, a solid, durable No. 4 or 5 starter. Trading him and/or Moreland (team option of $3M) would be a major white flag on the 2021 season and I don't think CB will wave that flag. I expect to see JBJ go and I'm sure he'd like to move JDM, who is sure to exercise his opt-out after the 2021 season. Completely unrealistic expectation of Perez, he’s really got you fooled. What do you think constitutes a number 5 starter? You think that's like a sub-3 ERA, 12+ K/9 I bet. Perez is putting up borderline #3 starter numbers right now and I don't expect that to continue but he definitely seems like a guy you can rely on to be a good back-end piece.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 23, 2020 13:01:46 GMT -5
Completely unrealistic expectation of Perez, he’s really got you fooled. What do you think constitutes a number 5 starter? You think that's like a sub-3 ERA, 12+ K/9 I bet. Perez is putting up borderline #3 starter numbers right now and I don't expect that to continue but he definitely seems like a guy you can rely on to be a good back-end piece. He said in another thread that Eduardo Rodriguez should be the Red Sox' 5th starter, so there you go.
|
|
|