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Patriots 2020 season thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2020 8:31:59 GMT -5
The baffling part is a Patriots team has gotten worse after six games, like a lot worse. The 49ers were gashed by the run for a ton of games and they go away from that. It's like they got cute and tried to do what they didn't expect. D couldn't come close to even slowing down the 49ers in either the run or pass. They didn't force a punt till the 4th.
So glad they traded up for Uche and didn't take a WR. When Meyers is your best WR things are going to be bad. Really fun watching all the very good WRs drafted the last two years on other teams.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 8:45:45 GMT -5
The baffling part is a Patriots team has gotten worse after six games, like a lot worse. The 49ers were gashed by the run for a ton of games and they go away from that. It's like they got cute and tried to do what they didn't expect. D couldn't come close to even slowing down the 49ers in either the run or pass. They didn't force a punt till the 4th. So glad they traded up for Uche and didn't take a WR. When Meyers is your best WR things are going to be bad. Really fun watching all the very good WRs drafted the last two years on other teams. It’s hard to gash an NFL team running the ball when you have zero threat of a passing game. Once teams get tape on you, if you have no ability to adjust and do different things you are going to get crushed. That’s what we’ve seen happen here. The thing is, that should make things wide open in the passing game so if they can take advantage opportunity is going to be there. Hard to do with shitty weapon and Cam Newton playing like trash. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 9:37:23 GMT -5
Just saw a stat that I can’t corroborate but have no reason to think it’s wrong. Yesterday Newton didn’t throw one pass to his right and the week before he only threw 3. That’s 3 passes to the right in 40 throws. I’m going to assume right means outside the hashmarks.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 10:47:54 GMT -5
Reiss' guess is that this week may have been due to a substitution error on his part. I’m also now remembering his personal foul penalty blocking Garoppolo away from the play, then his “conversation” with Bill on the sidelines. |
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2020 11:26:41 GMT -5
Yeah. The combining of "expert" analysis would suggest:
- He was already getting moved to a more situational player (last week's reduction on time)
- Was on the same path against SF but then made some critical errors (Substitution issue; roughing the passer penalty; and someone mentioned an additional penalty but I can't say I recall).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2020 13:25:39 GMT -5
The baffling part is a Patriots team has gotten worse after six games, like a lot worse. The 49ers were gashed by the run for a ton of games and they go away from that. It's like they got cute and tried to do what they didn't expect. D couldn't come close to even slowing down the 49ers in either the run or pass. They didn't force a punt till the 4th. So glad they traded up for Uche and didn't take a WR. When Meyers is your best WR things are going to be bad. Really fun watching all the very good WRs drafted the last two years on other teams. It’s hard to gash an NFL team running the ball when you have zero threat of a passing game. Once teams get tape on you, if you have no ability to adjust and do different things you are going to get crushed. That’s what we’ve seen happen here. The thing is, that should make things wide open in the passing game so if they can take advantage opportunity is going to be there. Hard to do with shitty weapon and Cam Newton playing like trash. Is that what you just watched happen? I didn't see anything that showed the 49ers can stop us running. What I did see was instead of things like running the option with Newton, they went pass happy. Some teams run to set up the pass, some pass to set up the run and the really good teams can do both. We are clearly a run to set up the pass. You want them selling out on the run, it opens up the passing game. Now if you can't run, that doesn't work. Yet we're an elite running team. We just averaged 4.3 yards a carry in that game and we didn't even use Newton and the run option. On offense the clear strength is the OL, use it. This team should be the opposite of the Brady days were he would call a few runs to keep them honest, it's a few passes to keep them honest. Yet 25 passes to 22 runs and that ratio was worse before they pulled Newton. This team needs to play like Baltimore last year. They have the talent to do it. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 13:40:44 GMT -5
Copeland out for the year
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Post by costpet on Oct 26, 2020 14:02:52 GMT -5
The bottom line is that we need a good quarterback. He is available if we get cute. What if we lost all the rest of our games? That would make us 2-14. We would have to lose 2 to the Jets, which would put us in a tie with them for the worst record, but head to head we would get the better draft choice. That means we could draft Trevor Lawrence and get back to being a dynasty. Simple huh?
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 14:03:16 GMT -5
It’s hard to gash an NFL team running the ball when you have zero threat of a passing game. Once teams get tape on you, if you have no ability to adjust and do different things you are going to get crushed. That’s what we’ve seen happen here. The thing is, that should make things wide open in the passing game so if they can take advantage opportunity is going to be there. Hard to do with shitty weapon and Cam Newton playing like trash. Is that what you just watched happen? I didn't see anything that showed the 49ers can stop us running. What I did see was instead of things like running the option with Newton, they went pass happy. Some teams run to set up the pass, some pass to set up the run and the really good teams can do both. We are clearly a run to set up the pass. You want them selling out on the run, it opens up the passing game. Now if you can't run, that doesn't work. Yet we're an elite running team. We just averaged 4.3 yards a carry in that game and we didn't even use Newton and the run option. On offense the clear strength is the OL, use it. This team should be the opposite of the Brady days were he would call a few runs to keep them honest, it's a few passes to keep them honest. Yet 25 passes to 22 runs and that ratio was worse before they pulled Newton. This team needs to play like Baltimore last year. They have the talent to do it. Yesterday on their first 2 possessions they called 6 runs and 5 passes (i counted the PI as a pass play and I counted a Cam run as a pass play because it was a called pass). They were down 10-3 when they got the ball back and Cam threw a pick on the first play (hard to say they should run every first down). Then it’s 16-3. They run for 3 yards on first down then 1 yard pass (i believe it was a screen to Jacob Johnson) so it’s 3 and 6 and they have to pass. Then they are down 23-6 with 54 second in the half so naturally they pass the ball 3 times. They ran 7 times for 25 yards in the first half on designed runs. Then the first drive of the half they only got a FG after driving; They did get some chunk runs and passes on this drive in the no huddle but was derailed by a sack. Then they were down 30-6. You want them to establish the run down 24? The reality is they tried running in the first half and couldn’t do it. If you want to say they screwed up not running more; i guess but they ran the same number of times as they passed for first 3 drives. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 14:13:37 GMT -5
Also we can’t run the same offense as Baltimore because Cam isn’t as explosive as Lamar but more importantly we don’t have the stable of receivers and the tight end they have to open things up a little.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Oct 26, 2020 14:25:44 GMT -5
The bottom line is that we need a good quarterback. He is available if we get cute. What if we lost all the rest of our games? That would make us 2-14. We would have to lose 2 to the Jets, which would put us in a tie with them for the worst record, but head to head we would get the better draft choice. That means we could draft Trevor Lawrence and get back to being a dynasty. Simple huh? 11 teams have the same or worse win percentage as the Patriots. 7 teams have 0 or 1 wins. Many of those teams are worse than the Patriots, and they don't have Belichick. There are so many teams that have been a dumpster fire all year, and before the last two games the Patriots looked like a playoff contender. The Patriots have no viable path to a top 2 pick in this season, short of intentionally throwing games. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2020 16:15:35 GMT -5
Is that what you just watched happen? I didn't see anything that showed the 49ers can stop us running. What I did see was instead of things like running the option with Newton, they went pass happy. Some teams run to set up the pass, some pass to set up the run and the really good teams can do both. We are clearly a run to set up the pass. You want them selling out on the run, it opens up the passing game. Now if you can't run, that doesn't work. Yet we're an elite running team. We just averaged 4.3 yards a carry in that game and we didn't even use Newton and the run option. On offense the clear strength is the OL, use it. This team should be the opposite of the Brady days were he would call a few runs to keep them honest, it's a few passes to keep them honest. Yet 25 passes to 22 runs and that ratio was worse before they pulled Newton. This team needs to play like Baltimore last year. They have the talent to do it. Yesterday on their first 2 possessions they called 6 runs and 5 passes (i counted the PI as a pass play and I counted a Cam run as a pass play because it was a called pass). They were down 10-3 when they got the ball back and Cam threw a pick on the first play (hard to say they should run every first down). Then it’s 16-3. They run for 3 yards on first down then 1 yard pass (i believe it was a screen to Jacob Johnson) so it’s 3 and 6 and they have to pass. Then they are down 23-6 with 54 second in the half so naturally they pass the ball 3 times. They ran 7 times for 25 yards in the first half on designed runs. Then the first drive of the half they only got a FG after driving; They did get some chunk runs and passes on this drive in the no huddle but was derailed by a sack. Then they were down 30-6. You want them to establish the run down 24? The reality is they tried running in the first half and couldn’t do it. If you want to say they screwed up not running more; i guess but they ran the same number of times as they passed for first 3 drives. I have five runs to 13 passes in the first half. I think your counting a bunch of scrambles Newton did on pass plays as runs. I'm talking about play calling. Newton scrambling and calling Newton runs and run option plays are totally different. We didn't see a run option the whole game. I would have done that on the first series when it was third and 4. Set the tone type crap. That's what they were doing at the start of the year. It was clearly a different game plan. Five running plays got you 17 yards, 3.4 per carry. Runs of 5, 2, 5, 2 and 3. As we got to see in the second half when they actually committed to the run it just got better. That's what it's all about with power running, wear the team down and open up the passing attack. You don't do that with 5 carries in the first half. It should have been reversed 13-5 is how this team is built and it helps the defense. With this team third and under five should be a run just as much as a pass. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 26, 2020 16:34:12 GMT -5
Yesterday on their first 2 possessions they called 6 runs and 5 passes (i counted the PI as a pass play and I counted a Cam run as a pass play because it was a called pass). They were down 10-3 when they got the ball back and Cam threw a pick on the first play (hard to say they should run every first down). Then it’s 16-3. They run for 3 yards on first down then 1 yard pass (i believe it was a screen to Jacob Johnson) so it’s 3 and 6 and they have to pass. Then they are down 23-6 with 54 second in the half so naturally they pass the ball 3 times. They ran 7 times for 25 yards in the first half on designed runs. Then the first drive of the half they only got a FG after driving; They did get some chunk runs and passes on this drive in the no huddle but was derailed by a sack. Then they were down 30-6. You want them to establish the run down 24? The reality is they tried running in the first half and couldn’t do it. If you want to say they screwed up not running more; i guess but they ran the same number of times as they passed for first 3 drives. I have five runs to 13 passes in the first half. I think your counting a bunch of scrambles Newton did on pass plays as runs. I'm talking about play calling. Newton scrambling and calling Newton runs and run option plays are totally different. We didn't see a run option the whole game. I would have done that on the first series when it was third and 4. Set the tone type crap. That's what they were doing at the start of the year. It was clearly a different game plan. Five running plays got you 17 yards, 3.4 per carry. Runs of 5, 2, 5, 2 and 3. As we got to see in the second half when they actually committed to the run it just got better. That's what it's all about with power running, wear the team down and open up the passing attack. You don't do that with 5 carries in the first half. It should have been reversed 13-5 is how this team is built and it helps the defense. With this team third and under five should be a run just as much as a pass. Because you aren’t counting these 2 runs which were 100% run plays:  They were option runs with Burkhead. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2020 8:00:23 GMT -5
I have five runs to 13 passes in the first half. I think your counting a bunch of scrambles Newton did on pass plays as runs. I'm talking about play calling. Newton scrambling and calling Newton runs and run option plays are totally different. We didn't see a run option the whole game. I would have done that on the first series when it was third and 4. Set the tone type crap. That's what they were doing at the start of the year. It was clearly a different game plan. Five running plays got you 17 yards, 3.4 per carry. Runs of 5, 2, 5, 2 and 3. As we got to see in the second half when they actually committed to the run it just got better. That's what it's all about with power running, wear the team down and open up the passing attack. You don't do that with 5 carries in the first half. It should have been reversed 13-5 is how this team is built and it helps the defense. With this team third and under five should be a run just as much as a pass. Because you aren’t counting these 2 runs which were 100% run plays: They were option runs with Burkhead. I'm not so sure about that. The first one I can't see the WRs, it went to a game update and I'm not trying to find more tape. Yet that second one, watch the WRs, they aren't blocking so it wasn't a 100% run play. Maybe run pass option or Newton just called his own number given what he saw from the D. If that was 100% a running play Harry, Byrd and Edelman block coming off the line, not run routes. It certainly wasn't the running option plays we did against Miami. Heck after watching it again it looked like a play action call that Newton just ran instead of passed. When I talk about running option plays, I'm talking about what Navy does in College. The QB and RB are out in space and depending what the D does he keeps it or tosses it. Not a single one of those in that game. Just a huge difference in those plays. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 8:41:21 GMT -5
Because you aren’t counting these 2 runs which were 100% run plays: They were option runs with Burkhead. I'm not so sure about that. The first one I can't see the WRs, it went to a game update and I'm not trying to find more tape. Yet that second one, watch the WRs, they aren't blocking so it wasn't a 100% run play. Maybe run pass option or Newton just called his own number given what he saw from the D. If that was 100% a running play Harry, Byrd and Edelman block coming off the line, not run routes. It certainly wasn't the running option plays we did against Miami. Heck after watching it again it looked like a play action call that Newton just ran instead of passed. When I talk about running option plays, I'm talking about what Navy does in College. The QB and RB are out in space and depending what the D does he keeps it or tosses it. Not a single one of those in that game. Just a huge difference in those plays. Call it what you want to call it but there was zero look to pass on those plays. It was no huddle, he immediately went into run-read option with Burkhead. If it wasn’t the kind of run read option you wanted, I don’t know what to say but they were clearly running plays not QB scrambles so they certainly shouldn’t be counted as pass plays. Also, after that Miami game McDaniels and Bill both said most of those Cam runs were RPOs that Cam’s read was running versus passing so I wouldn’t call it any different. |
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Post by costpet on Oct 27, 2020 8:53:59 GMT -5
It’s easy to throw games. Start Hoyer for the rest of the season.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 9:04:02 GMT -5
It’s easy to throw games. Start Hoyer for the rest of the season. Right now the way he’s playing Cam is the best guy to lose games, but I’d expect that to change. I think you lose more with Stidham than Hoyer to be honest. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 9:09:41 GMT -5
Thought this was humorous when i read it in bleacher reports power Rankings... Pats are 20th by the way.  I had last week as one of my wins in my revised 6-10 prediction so I’ll have to find another win outside of the Jets and Houston. The reality is they actually have a fairly difficult schedule outside of those 2. NFC West is stacked this year. The Chargers are looking fairly tough with Herbert and Miami is always tough in Miami but let’s see what Tua looks like. Honestly, if i were a betting man, which I’m not because I suck at it, I’d be tempted to lay a lot on the Patriots as dogs this weekend. 3 straight losses, coming off an embarrassment and a second full week of practice should equal bounce back game. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2020 10:52:01 GMT -5
I'm not so sure about that. The first one I can't see the WRs, it went to a game update and I'm not trying to find more tape. Yet that second one, watch the WRs, they aren't blocking so it wasn't a 100% run play. Maybe run pass option or Newton just called his own number given what he saw from the D. If that was 100% a running play Harry, Byrd and Edelman block coming off the line, not run routes. It certainly wasn't the running option plays we did against Miami. Heck after watching it again it looked like a play action call that Newton just ran instead of passed. When I talk about running option plays, I'm talking about what Navy does in College. The QB and RB are out in space and depending what the D does he keeps it or tosses it. Not a single one of those in that game. Just a huge difference in those plays. Call it what you want to call it but there was zero look to pass on those plays. It was no huddle, he immediately went into run-read option with Burkhead. If it wasn’t the kind of run read option you wanted, I don’t know what to say but they were clearly running plays not QB scrambles so they certainly shouldn’t be counted as pass plays. Also, after that Miami game McDaniels and Bill both said most of those Cam runs were RPOs that Cam’s read was running versus passing so I wouldn’t call it any different. They were likely RPOs, which isn't calling a run play. That's the problem, Newton was 100% run, everyone else was playing run pass option. If Newton is going to do that on an RPO than call a running play. He acted like it was a running play, which isn't what you do on a RPO. If he's going to act that way pre-snap he needs to let the team know. An RPO only works if you actually run and pass out of it based on the D. If you are just going to run, bring in a running unit, two TEs, extra lineman etc. Have your WRs blocking, your not confusing a D if you won't pass and your just making things harder. Against Dolphins first series five straight runs to set up the pass, next series three straight runs. I will admit they kept using Onwenu a ton in that game as an extra guy and he was starting this week and you had no Michel, yet had Harris. Yet the play calling was much different, it wasn't just run it down their throats to set up the pass and they weren't bringing in an extra lineman. Hence my issues with the play calling. The game plan was different. Could have started Herron and used Onwenu the same way. Asiasi has been good as a blocker, yet was not active for Keene who isn't nearly as good. Yet that's because the game plan was different and I think it 100% fair to ask why and question that. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 11:10:40 GMT -5
You can question the game plan all you want but it’s pretty rough to do that when the QB was bouncing throws and missing wide open receivers. To judge the ineffectiveness of the play calling when the QB wasn’t executing just seems odd.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2020 12:55:43 GMT -5
That's the whole reason to question the play calls. If Newton was awesome throwing you wouldn't question anything. He looked lost last week, 49ers had issues with the run and especially QB runs. So if Newton looks lost why would you design a game plan built around him throwing?
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Oct 27, 2020 13:51:01 GMT -5
At this point I think we're seeing the answer to the Brady vs Belichick debate play out on the field. Not to diminish the career of amazing accomplishments, but I haven't been a huge fan of Belichick the last year or so. There are flashes of greatness still. The gameplan against the Chiefs twice and Rams, some huge upside finds late in the draft, building such a strong secondary) Adapting the team to the skills of players there. However, the lack of return at the top of the draft is confounding; it seems impossible that every single 1st to 3rd round pick could go badly as they have for 5 years. The lack of attention to offensive skill players this season was pure arrogance; the past few years it was mis-allocated resources and misses (Michel, Harry, Sanu, Cooks) but this season it is negligent. The lack of plan for quarterback. All his gambles that worked in the past are coming up losers, and there's no prime Brady to bail them out. I really really thought this was a team after that Chiefs game, that they'd clean up a few things, hit their stride and be top of the league November and December pending good health. Oops. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 14:28:12 GMT -5
At this point I think we're seeing the answer to the Brady vs Belichick debate play out on the field. Not to diminish the career of amazing accomplishments, but I haven't been a huge fan of Belichick the last year or so. No we are not |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2020 15:51:11 GMT -5
That's the whole reason to question the play calls. If Newton was awesome throwing you wouldn't question anything. He looked lost last week, 49ers had issues with the run and especially QB runs. So if Newton looks lost why would you design a game plan built around him throwing? This is the last I’ll say about anything on last game.... A few days ago i was way too negative and part of it was saying Newton sucked, so far so why going into the game, if you disagreed with that, would you have a problem with them throwing a little? They did not build the game plan around throwing either thats just false. You just don’t like HOW they ran - they didn’t not run the ball early in the game. Also, we don’t know how he was in practice last week. If he were as bad as he was in the game, I’d be surprised. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2020 17:02:21 GMT -5
That's the whole reason to question the play calls. If Newton was awesome throwing you wouldn't question anything. He looked lost last week, 49ers had issues with the run and especially QB runs. So if Newton looks lost why would you design a game plan built around him throwing? This is the last I’ll say about anything on last game.... A few days ago i was way too negative and part of it was saying Newton sucked, so far so why going into the game, if you disagreed with that, would you have a problem with them throwing a little? They did not build the game plan around throwing either thats just false. You just don’t like HOW they ran - they didn’t not run the ball early in the game. Also, we don’t know how he was in practice last week. If he were as bad as he was in the game, I’d be surprised. Thanks for telling me what I think, that just clears up everything. I've made my point crystal clear, end of story. |
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