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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 22, 2021 13:01:55 GMT -5
I love Casas but them 52% GB are giving me Eric Hosmer/Lars Anderson vibes. Do you mean hitting prospect overall, or specifically hit tool? Sorry for missing your post. It's the hit tool that excites the most about his profile. I'm a sucker for those 😅
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 22, 2021 13:47:37 GMT -5
Not to go too far off topic here, but regarding your point on Casas, it's worth noting that Double-A is the level where teams have to keep all infielders on the dirt this year. They are almost certainly shifting him (you'd be surprised how many shifts teams employ in the minors now) already, but the guy in the middle is probably in shorter than he otherwise would be.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 22, 2021 14:33:32 GMT -5
I find it amazing that anyone would hesitate to choose between Casas or Yorke as a hitter or even as a prospect. Casas is a no-doubt average major leaguer with a chance to be a real star. As a hitter he has the hit tool, power, and patience. He’s rightly the top prospect on this site and rated far above Yorke by everyone. Yorke is an intriguing bat who’s had a few good games and shown glimpses suggesting he could be something special. Eh, when you look deeper into the numbers, it's not that "amazing" to hesitate between them but let me start by repeating myself: I love Triston Casas. When you look closer, the similarities between them are eye popping: - The Sox surprised the draft world when they picked them in the 1st round out of HS: They usually don't draft 1st basemen this early in the draft for Casas' case and Yorke's pick shocked everybody. [...] In conclusion, we can all agree that they're exciting to follow this year and the organization is lucky to have them both. Hmm, the only surprise when they picked Casas was that he was still there at #26. - mlb.com had him at #16 (both Callis and Mayo)
- fangraphs literally mocked him to the Red Sox
- Sporting News had him at #22
- Baseball America had him at #23
The Yorke pick was a genuine shock as no one had him in the first round at all. - MLB.com’s draft prospect rankings had him at No. 139
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Post by chr31ter on Jun 23, 2021 10:27:46 GMT -5
Nick Yorke in the month of June: .362/.457/.534/.992. 70 plate appearances, 9 walks, 10 strikeouts
Every single plate appearance this season has come against a pitcher who is older than he is.
He really seems to have figured some stuff out.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2021 10:44:35 GMT -5
Nick Yorke in the month of June: .362/.457/.534/.992. 70 plate appearances, 9 walks, 10 strikeouts Every single plate appearance this season has come against a pitcher who is older than he is. He really seems to have figured some stuff out. I know radiohix is doing the Casas/Yorke comparison thing and yes, Casas is the #1 prospect here, but I can see where he's coming from. I think Bloom and his staff picked a gem in last year's draft. I think they recognized that if he had gotten more ABs he might have been a first rounder. That and that he's most likely a 2b, not a SS. He's gotta a long way to go, but it's not hard to imagine a .300 hitter with pop, a guy who can do a lot of the things (on offense) Pedroia did. I think that talent is in there. Good to see some confirmation of that after he struggled badly the first month, but that's not that uncommon. At some point the light goes on with some of these talented players. Mookie wasn't Mookie instantly but a switch got thrown and the talent blossomed. I think we're seeing that with Yorke and I am excited for his future. That's the funny thing with drafts. I remember being so excited when the Sox drafted Groome, a guy rumored to be 1-1, but it's an open question at this point if he's going to be a major league pitcher, let alone somebody who can pitch toward the top of a rotation. Contrast that with Yorke, whose selection made me shriek, "WHO??? WHY? " Now I think the Sox picked a gem, especially given their circumstances. If they somehow hit on both Yorke and Blaze Jordan, then that's one helluva drafting job. As for Casas and Yorke, it's not too difficult to imagine them on the right side of the infield together at some point. Jeter Downs will enter into the equation first at 2b (probably next season), I'd assume, but then again he's capable of playing other positions as well down the road, so we'll see what happens.
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Post by jaffinator on Jun 23, 2021 10:46:39 GMT -5
Absolutely lovely to see the power he's shown in June, especially given his frankly aggressive assignment in the system. All that being said, I'll hold off on the champagne until he shows it after his next promotion. Too easy to get burned, and as encouraging as the slugging is there, a single HR can skew those in a less than a month sample size. Cautiously optimistic.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 23, 2021 11:15:08 GMT -5
I think it's within Yorke's reach to match or exceed Casas' teenaged Low-A season (adjusting for position). If he pulls that off, and Casas doesn't break out, then I think there's a solid case to rank them similarly. Yorke isn't quite there yet, though.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2021 11:18:27 GMT -5
I think it's within Yorke's reach to match or exceed Casas' teenaged Low-A season (adjusting for position). If he pulls that off, and Casas doesn't break out, then I think there's a solid case to rank them similarly. Yorke isn't quite there yet, though. Way, way, way too soon of course, but I could see Casas being a 30 HR guy in the majors with a high OBP primarily because of walks. He's probably a .270ish hitter. With Yorke, I don't know how his plate discipline is but I think the Sox can see a guy with potential to be a .300 hitter with 20 HR power. Defense aside as Youks and Pedroia were great, but on offense they could remind one of a Youks/Pedroia right side if they develop as hoped for.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 23, 2021 13:52:27 GMT -5
I know this is not much of a source, but it seems factual, and interesting: "The San Francisco Giants made Christian Arroyo the biggest surprise of the first round of the 2013 Major League Baseball draft by taking him at No. 25 overall; many experts didn't even have him ranked in the top 100 prospects. Arroyo isn't the most talented player in the draft, but the Giants saw something in him. The infielder started to receive some buzz as the draft got closer, but it's still a surprise to see him drafted in the first round." bleacherreport.com/articles/1664869-christian-arroyo-prospect-profile-for-san-francisco-giants-1st-round-pickor this one: "The Giants drafted Arroyo 25th overall in 2013 as a prep shortstop, signing him to a slot deal and sending him to the Arizona Rookie League, where he promptly hit .326 in a 45-game professional debut. Outside of a briefly rude introduction to full-season pitching the following year, he hit everything thrown at him up to Double A, climbing to the organizational top spot heading into the 2016 season. Still just 21, he yesterday became the lucky thirteenth member of the first round of his draft class to step between the lines of a big-league baseball game." www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/31685/the-call-up-christian-arroyo/
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 24, 2021 15:28:08 GMT -5
Arroyo was BA's #102 prospect.
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Post by coachmac on Jun 25, 2021 7:52:38 GMT -5
While Yorke was a surprise to the draft experts, Tim Corbin, Vanderbilt,said on the draft show that he rated Yorke as the top high school hitter that year and that Vanderbilt had tried extemely hard to recruit Yorke.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 25, 2021 11:04:34 GMT -5
Eh, when you look deeper into the numbers, it's not that "amazing" to hesitate between them but let me start by repeating myself: I love Triston Casas. When you look closer, the similarities between them are eye popping: - The Sox surprised the draft world when they picked them in the 1st round out of HS: They usually don't draft 1st basemen this early in the draft for Casas' case and Yorke's pick shocked everybody. [...] In conclusion, we can all agree that they're exciting to follow this year and the organization is lucky to have them both. Hmm, the only surprise when they picked Casas was that he was still there at #26. - mlb.com had him at #16 (both Callis and Mayo)
- fangraphs literally mocked him to the Red Sox
- Sporting News had him at #22
- Baseball America had him at #23
The Yorke pick was a genuine shock as no one had him in the first round at all. - MLB.com’s draft prospect rankings had him at No. 139
Fair enough but that's not the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is that the pick was unconventional when you take into consideration the draft philosophy of the different Red Sox Front Offices during the past two decades: It's either tall pitchers or up the middle position players in the First Round. Casas was the first and only corner infielder taken by the Red Sox in first round in the 2000s. Put this way: - Red Sox selects Triston Casas ---> Wow They never do that in the 1st round! They must believe strongly in his bat (Power production). - Red Sox selects Nick Yorke ---- > Wow They picked a guy that no publication thought he was a 1st rounder? They must must strongly believe in his bat (Hit tool). Anecdotally, the similarities between these two future studs (fingers crossed) go even further: Yorke's jersey number in Salem: 3 Casas' jersey number in Portland: 3 This is certainly not a coincidence
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 25, 2021 12:09:05 GMT -5
Hmm, the only surprise when they picked Casas was that he was still there at #26. - mlb.com had him at #16 (both Callis and Mayo)
- fangraphs literally mocked him to the Red Sox
- Sporting News had him at #22
- Baseball America had him at #23
The Yorke pick was a genuine shock as no one had him in the first round at all. - MLB.com’s draft prospect rankings had him at No. 139
Fair enough but that's not the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is that the pick was unconventional when you take into consideration the draft philosophy of the different Red Sox Front Offices during the past two decades: It's either tall pitchers or up the middle position players in the First Round. Casas was the first and only corner infielder taken by the Red Sox in first round in the 2000s. Put this way: - Red Sox selects Triston Casas ---> Wow They never do that in the 1st round! They must believe strongly in his bat (Power production). - Red Sox selects Nick Yorke ---- > Wow They picked a guy that no publication thought he was a 1st rounder? They must must strongly believe in his bat (Hit tool). Anecdotally, the similarities between these two future studs (fingers crossed) go even further: Yorke's jersey number in Salem: 3 Casas' jersey number in Portland: 3 This is certainly not a coincidence Kolbrin Vitek, 2010, 3b. Nobody was surprised when, seeing Casas available, they took him.
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Post by ramireja on Jun 25, 2021 12:17:18 GMT -5
Ehhh, we can check the archives. I mean he wasn't a surprise on a Yorke level, and yes, based on his ranking the pick made sense. That said I think Radiohix has a point. I don't recall many of us discussing Casas in advance of the pick, and I do think there was a relative amount of surprise in a "huh, didn't think we'd take a HS 1B whose best attribute is power, but I'm not mad at it because the ranking seems appropriate for the pick" kind of way. Okay -- checked the archives. There wasn't as much 'surprise' as I had seemed to remember. I wouldn't say the response to the pick was ecstatic but there were several who were pretty excited by the upside in his bat.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2021 15:44:59 GMT -5
I think the surprise on Casas was that he was kind of atypical for them, but "surprise" might be strong and I think digging deeper than "HS power 1B" it made more sense.
Also radiohix' post makes me think of an old Dana Carvey stand-up (for SportsCenter fans, the one where Kenny Mayne or whoever it was got "Choppin' Broccoli" from) when he's impersonating Johnny Cochran during the OJ Simpson trial
"God has 3 letters, Ito has 3 letters. Coincidence? I think not!"
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 3, 2021 12:09:33 GMT -5
For those who were very concerned about Yorke and his assignment to Salem, you can drop the frown. I'd caution against early season judgements when just a few games have been played. That's a small sample by definition. Watching last nights video (thanks SoxStats...), what was most impressive was the way he was shooting balls to all fields. He got out the nine iron and the driver and they all performed. He looks like a hitter.
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Post by borisman on Jul 3, 2021 12:29:40 GMT -5
For those who were very concerned about Yorke and his assignment to Salem, you can drop the frown. I'd caution against early season judgements when just a few games have been played. That's a small sample by definition. Watching last nights video (thanks SoxStats...), what was most impressive was the way he was shooting balls to all fields. He got out the nine iron and the driver and they all performed. He looks like a hitter. That's great to hear. I hope Yorke and Jordan work out well. I would still have taken either PCA or Garrett Mitchell last draft. PCA is hurt, I see, but Mitchell has been as advertised.
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Post by soxinsf on Jul 3, 2021 12:52:37 GMT -5
For those who were very concerned about Yorke and his assignment to Salem, you can drop the frown. I'd caution against early season judgements when just a few games have been played. That's a small sample by definition. Watching last nights video (thanks SoxStats...), what was most impressive was the way he was shooting balls to all fields. He got out the nine iron and the driver and they all performed. He looks like a hitter. After his seemingly great results at the ATF, it was a surprise and disappointment that Yorke started so poorly in May. But he certainly has made up for it in June and early July. If he keeps it up, does he merit an August promotion?
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Post by unitspin on Jul 3, 2021 12:59:17 GMT -5
For those who were very concerned about Yorke and his assignment to Salem, you can drop the frown. I'd caution against early season judgements when just a few games have been played. That's a small sample by definition. Watching last nights video (thanks SoxStats...), what was most impressive was the way he was shooting balls to all fields. He got out the nine iron and the driver and they all performed. He looks like a hitter. That was me, I thought after his poor start they might have brought him up too fast but he has with time shown what bloom and co saw in him. Hope it continues, deff a prospect to get excited about.
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Post by jaffinator on Jul 3, 2021 13:05:42 GMT -5
Not to re-legislate the draft (again) but knowing where we are today, I would probably take Nick Yorke + Blaze Jordan over Garrett Mitchell + Anthony Walters (who was the next college selection after Blaze Jordan, which is the direction the team likely would have had to go at that point if they picked Mitchell or PCA - also I laugh every time I see PCA as a nickname because it's also a math/stats thing) and would probably also take Yorke + Jordan over PCA + Walters. Mitchell's been killing it to start the year (according to the numbers, I watched him in college but not as a Brewers minor leaguer) but watching him in college I was a little skeptical of the power and I probably still am (though it does seem better). Huge fan of him and that UCLA team though. Once again though, Mitchell's numbers have come against nearly age-even competition whereas Yorke is almost two and a half years younger than the average age of his league and I still don't think he's faced a pitcher younger than him. Super small sample size, but Jordan has started the FCL well enough and because he graduated early, he entered the draft as maybe the youngest pick and is almost 2 years younger than the average FCL player. Anthony Walters doesn't look very good thus far.
There's a fairly good chance one (or both) of PCA and Mitchell make this take look exceedingly stupid, but as of right now I'm not really sure the Red Sox could have reasonably handled their first two selections better. I guess we will see.
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Post by soxinsf on Jul 3, 2021 13:07:33 GMT -5
For those who were very concerned about Yorke and his assignment to Salem, you can drop the frown. I'd caution against early season judgements when just a few games have been played. That's a small sample by definition. Watching last nights video (thanks SoxStats...), what was most impressive was the way he was shooting balls to all fields. He got out the nine iron and the driver and they all performed. He looks like a hitter. That was me, I thought after his poor start they might have brought him up too fast but he has with time shown what bloom and co saw in him. Hope it continues, deff a prospect to get excited about. From May 31 onward, Yorke is 32 for 81, a nice .395 BA.
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Post by soxinsf on Jul 4, 2021 0:10:35 GMT -5
Add in today’s 2 for 4, and Yorke is now hitting .400 since the end of May.
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Post by chr31ter on Jul 4, 2021 9:47:14 GMT -5
Nick Yorke's first 20 games: .177/.250/.190/.440, 8 BB, 21 K
Since then (23 games): .400/.485/.588/1.073, 13 BB, 12 K
He still has yet to have a plate appearance this season against a pitcher who is younger than he is.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 4, 2021 10:07:20 GMT -5
Insanely way too early hot take but as good as the Yorke pick is looking now, it’s going to look even better if Jordan becomes a guy.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 4, 2021 20:33:00 GMT -5
I think the kid from Hawaii has a chance to be a bullpen guy. In Boston. I’ve only seen him pitch twice, but his two pitches might be able to play in the majors.
Time will tell if his command and control improves!
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