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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 29, 2021 8:47:28 GMT -5
You worry about Jimmy and his health, okay. Yet when healthy he's a great QB, that just wins games. 24-8 record, 67.5% completion percentage, 98.9 career QB rating. Came darn close to winning a Superbowl. He knows our system, he's such a massive upgrade over Newton it's not even funny. Yet yeah you have limits to what you'll trade and getting Jimmy doesn't mean you don't take a young QB. The chances a rookie is better than Jimmy are slim. "The chances a rookie is better than Jimmy are slim". Pretty sure I was saying the same thing about the position the Niners are in. If he can stay healthy they are a SB contender and the chances get slimmer with a rookie QB yet the trade they made is obviously for a QB. Like I said it makes sense for the Niners to keep him and hope, then the rook starts as a 2nd yr player. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 29, 2021 8:52:33 GMT -5
Happy Draft Day... I have no idea what’s about to happen tonight. I know I can't wait, although it always seems to end up less exciting than anticipated, but then again the Patriots never used free agency like this before so maybe this year will be different. Last night Dale Arnold was saying that his source, which told him Brady was going to TB, is telling them that the Pats are negotiating with Garappolo to restructure in his contract with the hopes of trading for him. Meanwhile Tom E Curran said the Pats are not going to get Garappolo right now. Maybe SF parts with him before training camp, but they don't have to deal him to the Pats now. When all is said and done, I think the 49ers will trade Garropolo to NE soon, perhaps tonight. I think they'll get a QB in a lower round. I can see them trading down and grabbing a linebacker. I can see them trading Gilmore for more picks today too. Either way, I can't wait....so much anticipation....and then the Sox pick 4th. These two drafts are must-see TV. Exactly! The anticipation and excitement are always a letdown but this year does seem to be setting up to be a fun watch with so many anticipated moves and picks, who falls? |
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 29, 2021 9:06:02 GMT -5
I know I can't wait, although it always seems to end up less exciting than anticipated, but then again the Patriots never used free agency like this before so maybe this year will be different. Last night Dale Arnold was saying that his source, which told him Brady was going to TB, is telling them that the Pats are negotiating with Garappolo to restructure in his contract with the hopes of trading for him. Meanwhile Tom E Curran said the Pats are not going to get Garappolo right now. Maybe SF parts with him before training camp, but they don't have to deal him to the Pats now. When all is said and done, I think the 49ers will trade Garropolo to NE soon, perhaps tonight. I think they'll get a QB in a lower round. I can see them trading down and grabbing a linebacker. I can see them trading Gilmore for more picks today too. Either way, I can't wait....so much anticipation....and then the Sox pick 4th. These two drafts are must-see TV. Exactly! The anticipation and excitement are always a letdown but this year does seem to be setting up to be a fun watch with so many anticipated moves and picks, who falls? So many moving parts. I think they get either Fields or Jimmy G. The Bridgewater deal opens up a possibility that the Pats can get Fields without having to trade too much to move up - in other words they might not have to move up to 4 or 8 to snag Fields. But I can't imagine Belichick is willing to give up much to make that move, not when he probably has Jimmy G in his back pocket as an option. But then again he also has Gilmore as a chip with the intent of getting a CB in the draft anyways. And getting Jimmy G doesn't stop them from getting Mills or Trask, somebody who's a longer term project who could eventually step in for Jimmy G if he gets hurt or even eventually take over and be the starting QB. My guess is we see a CB, a wide receiver and a longer-distant future QB as the targets (along with a linebacker I assume) in this draft. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2021 9:35:02 GMT -5
I’m not going to make guesses at this point. I will say this. I said at the start of everything that I loved Mac Jones and thought Fields would be a bust. I also said 5 QBs wouldn’t go before the 15th pick but I assumed it would be Jones there for the taking.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2021 9:46:06 GMT -5
You worry about Jimmy and his health, okay. Yet when healthy he's a great QB, that just wins games. 24-8 record, 67.5% completion percentage, 98.9 career QB rating. Came darn close to winning a Superbowl. He knows our system, he's such a massive upgrade over Newton it's not even funny. Yet yeah you have limits to what you'll trade and getting Jimmy doesn't mean you don't take a young QB. The chances a rookie is better than Jimmy are slim. "The chances a rookie is better than Jimmy are slim". Pretty sure I was saying the same thing about the position the Niners are in. If he can stay healthy they are a SB contender and the chances get slimmer with a rookie QB yet the trade they made is obviously for a QB. Like I said it makes sense for the Niners to keep him and hope, then the rook starts as a 2nd yr player. Teàms are stupid. Like I hated the Packers taking Love when Rodgers needed help, yet at the same time that's how you should develop QBs. If I was the 49ers I'm not trading Jimmy, yet if I was the Jets I wouldn't have traded Darnold either. Take these guys and give them time to develop. If they force your hand than so be it, yet don't set it up so you have to start them week one. Overall that will hurt more young QBs than it helps. Overall teams don't pick the wrong players, they just do a horrible job developing them. |
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Post by costpet on Apr 29, 2021 9:46:18 GMT -5
I’m just glad it’s almost over.
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Post by costpet on Apr 29, 2021 10:33:14 GMT -5
I predict that the JAX will take 9+ minutes to make their first round pick. The question is why?
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 29, 2021 11:16:52 GMT -5
Zach Wilson COULD be a bust as much of his value is based on a season playing less than stellar competition. It would be great if the Jets move on from Darnold and then the next guy is even worse, assuming they take Wilson.
I hate NY teams!! Or is it the fans?
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2021 11:59:10 GMT -5
Just for the heck of it, I'm going to predict that NE trades up for Patrick Surtain II.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Apr 29, 2021 12:33:53 GMT -5
Still don't get the love for Toney; that type of receiver fails like 90% of the time in the NFL. Tyreek Hill has ruined everyone's evaluations; and though character concerns contributed, Hill was taken in the 5th round, not Top 20. I also hate breakouts by Seniors. Definitely a believer in Breakout Age theory of receivers, especially high picks. . He wasn't used that way in College, the two Moore's are much more like Hill. Toney just like that article says is all about YAC, not just using his speed to get open and make big plays. I worry about him, you worry about any receiver that's not a great route runner, yet he's kinda a different type of WR. He's not Dorsett, Patterson or that Baylor WR who's name eludes me. I'm not taking him in the first given this WR class. Yet it's not hard to envision him being a huge weapon in today's NFL in the right system. Look at Patterson drafted as an X WR and he was never that, yet look at what he did for the Patriots when used a different way. Toney is a slot WR in my book, not an X WR like Hill. If you draft him as an outside guy, you're going to be very disappointed. Grimes played the X for Florida. (revisiting this cuz I'm bored; I agree Toney isn't Hill which is part of why I don't like him since I think he's Tavon Austin or at best Percy Harvin, but the Hill comparison is def being made) theathletic.com/2550040/2021/04/29/predicting-top-100-picks-in-2021-nfl-draft-trevor-lawrence-to-kenneth-gainwell-bob-mcginn-makes-annual-picks/5. Kadarius Toney, Florida: Closest thing to Tyreek Hill in this draft. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2021 13:20:32 GMT -5
Toney isn't Hill, that's a horrible comparison. He wasn't used that way in College, the two Moore's are much more like Hill. Toney just like that article says is all about YAC, not just using his speed to get open and make big plays. I worry about him, you worry about any receiver that's not a great route runner, yet he's kinda a different type of WR. He's not Dorsett, Patterson or that Baylor WR who's name eludes me. I'm not taking him in the first given this WR class. Yet it's not hard to envision him being a huge weapon in today's NFL in the right system. Look at Patterson drafted as an X WR and he was never that, yet look at what he did for the Patriots when used a different way. Toney is a slot WR in my book, not an X WR like Hill. If you draft him as an outside guy, you're going to be very disappointed. Grimes played the X for Florida. (revisiting this cuz I'm bored; I agree Toney isn't Hill which is part of why I don't like him since I think he's Tavon Austin or at best Percy Harvin, but the Hill comparison is def being made) theathletic.com/2550040/2021/04/29/predicting-top-100-picks-in-2021-nfl-draft-trevor-lawrence-to-kenneth-gainwell-bob-mcginn-makes-annual-picks/5. Kadarius Toney, Florida: Closest thing to Tyreek Hill in this draft. One guy runs a 4.24 40, fastest time in history tying Chris Johnson, Toney is fast at 4.39, yet that difference is massive. One's just a fast player, ones the fastest guy in the league. Rondale Moore might be the best overall athlete in the draft. Now he wasn't used that way given the talent he had at QB, yet neither was Hill in College. For me if you want to try and get the next Hill, it's Moore who has elite everything. He has the speed/quickness/jump/change direction skills to make the best NFL athletes look stupid like Hill does. Hill makes 4.4 guys look like they are running in cement, it's just crazy. I mean people are comparing Brady to Mac Jones, which is just crazy. It's that time of year. I don't see Austin, yet Harvin isn't a bad comp. That's more what I see on tape with Tooney. Harvin was a darn good player his first four years before injuries ended his career. Look what the Seahawks traded for him and that contract they gave him. If he's a Percy Harvin that stays healthy isn't that a very good pick late first early second? The guy had 29 TDs in his first four years. |
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Post by mobaz on Apr 29, 2021 13:56:09 GMT -5
Harvin is certainly an above average outcome for a 1st round pick, but a lower ceiling than I'd like. Also, again don't like receivers who don't excel until Sr. year.
I'd rather E. Moore > Bateman > R Moore > Marshall (pending a draft day medical question). After that, Toney is probably a better bet than everyone else. So I guess I see him 8th and in the 2nd/3rd turn instead of (say) WR4 and Mid-1st, which is see pop up.
But I don't see the Pats ending up with anyone in those tiers, given other needs and some good shots you can take later (Darden, Wallace, St. Brown, and many others they might like better than some).
In other news, Tebow working out at TE for the Jaguars(!)
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2021 14:23:12 GMT -5
Craziest thing I've seen lately is Todd McShay rating Darden as the 314th best prospect, so undrafted and the 47th best WR. I find that laughable.
I don't think we've talked about Marquez Stevenson, yet he had a 6.46 3 cone time. Three years of good production. It's just a crazy class of WRs.
It's a crazy talented group, yet you can't wait too long because they are going to disappear quicker than scouts think. I do agree about production which is why I don't have Tooney as a first round guy. Too many other great prospects this year.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2021 14:27:27 GMT -5
Tebow back to the NFL? Aaron Rodgers wants out (Schefter)? What a day (even if nothing comes from EITHER of those 2 things).
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2021 14:32:09 GMT -5
Shefty reporting Rogers wants out of GB
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Apr 29, 2021 14:41:43 GMT -5
I swear to God, between Tebow, the rumor earlier that SF tried to offer 1.3 for Rodgers last night, and the Rodgers is disgruntled rumors now, I've never been more thankful for blue checkmarks, because all three of those seem like silly season shenanigans.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2021 14:57:42 GMT -5
Glazer following up saying this more than just a contract thing (and Schefter confirms).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2021 16:09:05 GMT -5
Glazer following up saying this more than just a contract thing (and Schefter confirms). He has three years left on his contract which takes him through his age 40 season. He's getting paid, so what's his problem? Is this another case of a QB who doesn't understand what a salary cap is? In 2020 the Packers spent their first two picks getting his replacement and one for Jones, rather than truly upgrading the team. I don't think it's crazy that a QB gets upset with that strategy. They then resign Jones, yet he losses his great Center. So you're going into 2021 and likely getting very little from your top two picks yet again. You have Aaron Rodgers shouldn't you be drafting to win now? Go get him a WR, OL help, or even talent on D to make things easier on him. I'd also be very pissed off. Like imagine Higgins or Claypool lining up opposite Adams, it would have been massive. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2021 16:21:49 GMT -5
And now you have to pay Adams next year when you're cap situation is less than ideal.
So maybe it's not Rodgers that doesn't understand what a salary cap is.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 29, 2021 17:04:35 GMT -5
When evaluating QB prospects, I don’t understand why guys like Lawrence are still a bit overrated. I don’t like his loopy mechanics and he misses open receivers. I understand the Elway comparisons. But Elway was never the best qb in the league, and often was not a top 5 qb.
I like Wilson. His feet are awesome. He throws from different angles with accuracy. He has touch but also some pop. Does Lawrence throw the ball harder? You bet. But does the ball usually get there at about the same time considering the deliveries? I would say so.
Fields is a scheme dependent superstar. He can hit the first read on a rope. He gets weird with pocket pressure, and lacks the improvisational skills of Wilson. But if you scheme him right he can punish a defense like few can. Who knows, maybe he develops pocket presence and some improvisational skills.
I like Mac Jones more than others. I like that he has the body of a 50 year old cpa and runs a 4.68. I like his footwork a lot a lot. Smooth. I think San Fransisco might take Lance, which means one of Jones or Fields slips a bit. I would like to see a pissed off Jones go from Saban to Belichick.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2021 19:03:43 GMT -5
When evaluating QB prospects, I don’t understand why guys like Lawrence are still a bit overrated. I don’t like his loopy mechanics and he misses open receivers. I understand the Elway comparisons. But Elway was never the best qb in the league, and often was not a top 5 qb. I like Wilson. His feet are awesome. He throws from different angles with accuracy. He has touch but also some pop. Does Lawrence throw the ball harder? You bet. But does the ball usually get there at about the same time considering the deliveries? I would say so. Fields is a scheme dependent superstar. He can hit the first read on a rope. He gets weird with pocket pressure, and lacks the improvisational skills of Wilson. But if you scheme him right he can punish a defense like few can. Who knows, maybe he develops pocket presence and some improvisational skills. I like Mac Jones more than others. I like that he has the body of a 50 year old cpa and runs a 4.68. I like his footwork a lot a lot. Smooth. I think San Fransisco might take Lance, which means one of Jones or Fields slips a bit. I would like to see a pissed off Jones go from Saban to Belichick. How real is this second third read stuff with Fields? I can’t find them now, but I’ve seen stats that showed his actual numbers were some of the best in College on second and third reads. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Apr 29, 2021 19:42:11 GMT -5
When evaluating QB prospects, I don’t understand why guys like Lawrence are still a bit overrated. I don’t like his loopy mechanics and he misses open receivers. I understand the Elway comparisons. But Elway was never the best qb in the league, and often was not a top 5 qb. I like Wilson. His feet are awesome. He throws from different angles with accuracy. He has touch but also some pop. Does Lawrence throw the ball harder? You bet. But does the ball usually get there at about the same time considering the deliveries? I would say so. Fields is a scheme dependent superstar. He can hit the first read on a rope. He gets weird with pocket pressure, and lacks the improvisational skills of Wilson. But if you scheme him right he can punish a defense like few can. Who knows, maybe he develops pocket presence and some improvisational skills. I like Mac Jones more than others. I like that he has the body of a 50 year old cpa and runs a 4.68. I like his footwork a lot a lot. Smooth. I think San Fransisco might take Lance, which means one of Jones or Fields slips a bit. I would like to see a pissed off Jones go from Saban to Belichick. How real is this second third read stuff with Fields? I can’t find them now, but I’ve seen stats that showed his actual numbers were some of the best in College on second and third reads. If the Pats pick him I'll try to dig up a fantastic breakdown I read. Their conclusion was it was definitely overstated on not getting to 2nd read, but there were some clear missed reads. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2021 19:47:23 GMT -5
Yeah with Fields it's more he misses some, leaves plays on the field, takes the easy ones versus he can't get through his reads overall.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2021 19:51:47 GMT -5
With Lance in SF, feels like he's the rawest of the prospects which might lead SF to keep Jimmy.
Meanwhile, with the QB pecking order a little more in line (though many feel Fields shouldn't be only the 4th), feels like Mac Jones has a better chance of dropping to NE without much of a move needed. That is, of course, if BB likes Mac Jones.
Obviously, Fields still in play as well.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Apr 29, 2021 20:06:08 GMT -5
IF there was a time to trade up, before Carolina (and especially Denver) would be the time to do it. Though I don't think they love Jones enough to do it.
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