SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
|
Post by mobaz on Jun 17, 2021 7:57:49 GMT -5
Too late, Mac is Trash and Cam is the Man given Minicamp Practice 3! How the turntables have... turned.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2021 11:46:34 GMT -5
What I can't wait for is preseason games and intra squad practices. It really hurt Stidham as a young guy last year to not have those. It was the 2019 preseason that put Stidham on the map. It was his instant chemistry with Meyers that likely was the reason he made the team, even when Brady had no chemistry with him. He was able to make a player look good in a way Brady couldn't. Brady had Meyers benched to end the year and it killed us because he just refused to work with the young guys.
Mac Jones is going to struggle, every rookie QB does. Yet it's stuff like that I'm looking for, something Cam Newton couldn't do last year. Heck he'd miss open WR, nevermind doing things to to make them look better. His best throws were to a crazy wide open Meyers. The QB we need is a guy that can make plays when guys are just wide open.
Unless Cam Newton is some new guy, I truly hope Stidham starts. That will create the offense we need, not the offense we had last year with Newton running it on 3rd downs when we should be passing. Either Stidham takes off and is good or he sets things up for Mac Jones. I pushed for Jones because he's the type of WR that could actually make Newton look good and open things up. I have big doubts if Newton has the accuracy to hit Agholor on bombs like Carr could. He missed almost all of those throws to Byrd last year. I'm a big fan of letting rookies sit and learn, the longer the better. Just afraid if you build an offense like you had last year with Newton, it makes it hard to replace him because neither Stidham or Jones are even close to Newton running.
I can't take another season of a QB not having the arm talent to play in our offense. I'd rather watch the young guys make mistakes and learn. Have a chance to build up to something, than just play a guy because he has experience and makes a few less mistakes day one. It's funny everything has been about Newton not knowing the playbook, when the bigger issue was Newton not having the arm talent to run the offense. If you can't stretch the field, you won't have success no matter the weapons. You'll just get last year again, with the defense putting an extra guy in the box and blitzing like crazy because they have no fear of you beating them deep.
That's my no logic rant of the day. Newton gets cut or traded, you go Stidham, Jones and Hoyer. You go back to early 2000 style offense. Stidham takes off or Mac Jones becomes our savior during the season. Now watch Newton have an MVP type season.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2021 13:14:47 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 21, 2021 13:20:17 GMT -5
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
|
Post by mobaz on Jun 21, 2021 13:43:03 GMT -5
What these projections show us is how deep this team is at the 50-60 spots in the roster. A lot of legit NFL players are going to be cut/traded/IR'd. Still don't like the top end of the WR chart and worry what happens if D-Mac loses a step or one of Gilly/JC are gone, but this team has enviable depth and should have a strong practice squad too.
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 22, 2021 11:33:05 GMT -5
Just read in the Athletic about Stevenson being a really good special teams player and loving it, that will be the final nail in Boldens coffin. Maybe he can catch on with someone else this year but roster spots on the Pats this year are going be tough for a few guys.
I would love to see Keene become an effective blocking FB because he could be a lot more of a weapon then anyone they have had there in my memory. Anyone remember Mosi Tatupo?
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2021 12:03:24 GMT -5
It's why I bitched during the draft, they targeted players at positions of strength and basically didn't go after positions of need. End result is the WR and CB battles are crazy weak, yet you have tons of OLB, RBs and DL guys.
Last three years you drafted Winovich, Uche, Jennings and Perkins, while also signing Judon and Van Noy. You draft two TEs, then sign two. You sign a whole DL then draft a guy in the second. RB depth was a strength last year and you take another guy in the 4th.
|
|
sportshubby
Rookie
yup that is my twitter handle
Posts: 98
|
Post by sportshubby on Jun 22, 2021 13:36:08 GMT -5
Just read in the Athletic about Stevenson being a really good special teams player and loving it, that will be the final nail in Boldens coffin. Maybe he can catch on with someone else this year but roster spots on the Pats this year are going be tough for a few guys. I would love to see Keene become an effective blocking FB because he could be a lot more of a weapon then anyone they have had there in my memory. Anyone remember Mosi Tatupo? I have been projecting Bolden as a cut since Stevenson was drafted, as well as Brandon King. The special teamers that didn't play last year were replaced, and I just don't see a place for them. I also agree on Keene. Best cast scenario for Pats is him forcing his way into the FB role by outblocking Johnson, because his upside is much better. My biggest question marks for the team are Michel and Harry. They seem very replaceable and if another team has any interest, I would see them being moved. I am expecting the defense to positively impact our offense this year, as starting field position should be better. But our offense should be improved as well. I know they will be on opposite sides of the line, but I daydream about Brown and Onwenu absolutely collapsing a def line in the run game. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2021 5:16:57 GMT -5
It’s dangerous to predict Bolden as a cut, but this year is completely different than in years past with the depth in certain areas.
The guy I’m super curious about is JoJuan Williams. Is he a bust or a victim of circumstances? We should find out this year.
|
|
sportshubby
Rookie
yup that is my twitter handle
Posts: 98
|
Post by sportshubby on Jun 23, 2021 9:50:58 GMT -5
It’s dangerous to predict Bolden as a cut, but this year is completely different than in years past with the depth in certain areas. The guy I’m super curious about is JoJuan Williams. Is he a bust or a victim of circumstances? We should find out this year. They have cut him in the past when they tried to sneak someone onto IR. That combined with special teams performance last year, the resigning of those special teamers, and the addition of Stevenson led me to speculate in my roster projection. Obviously injuries and trades can happen that change things. If Michel gets traded, the RB math changes. I'm with you on Williams, he is another borderline guy for me. He has been inconsistent as has his playing time. This should be a good camp battle. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2021 10:00:48 GMT -5
It’s dangerous to predict Bolden as a cut, but this year is completely different than in years past with the depth in certain areas. The guy I’m super curious about is JoJuan Williams. Is he a bust or a victim of circumstances? We should find out this year. They have cut him in the past when they tried to sneak someone onto IR. That combined with special teams performance last year, the resigning of those special teamers, and the addition of Stevenson led me to speculate in my roster projection. Obviously injuries and trades can happen that change things. If Michel gets traded, the RB math changes. I'm with you on Williams, he is another borderline guy for me. He has been inconsistent as has his playing time. This should be a good camp battle. They did and they lost him so not sure they play that game again, UNLESS, they don’t care if they lose him. It’s 100% possible and I’d do it, if I were predicting though, I don’t think Bill does it. I also, don’t think they trade Sony. Stevenson will likely be a bit player, if he even dresses, this year. It’d be an upset if not. That’s pretty much how they treat their RBs, unless his pass blocking is advanced. They did play Sony early but it took a couple years before they did anything but hand it off when he was in the game. They didn’t even let him pass-block, let alone throw it to him. That made them so predictable. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 14:16:25 GMT -5
Just read in the Athletic about Stevenson being a really good special teams player and loving it, that will be the final nail in Boldens coffin. Maybe he can catch on with someone else this year but roster spots on the Pats this year are going be tough for a few guys. I would love to see Keene become an effective blocking FB because he could be a lot more of a weapon then anyone they have had there in my memory. Anyone remember Mosi Tatupo? I have been projecting Bolden as a cut since Stevenson was drafted, as well as Brandon King. The special teamers that didn't play last year were replaced, and I just don't see a place for them. I also agree on Keene. Best cast scenario for Pats is him forcing his way into the FB role by outblocking Johnson, because his upside is much better. My biggest question marks for the team are Michel and Harry. They seem very replaceable and if another team has any interest, I would see them being moved. I am expecting the defense to positively impact our offense this year, as starting field position should be better. But our offense should be improved as well. I know they will be on opposite sides of the line, but I daydream about Brown and Onwenu absolutely collapsing a def line in the run game. With an offense that is going to be run heavy they need both Michel and Harris for depth in case one gets hurt, Stevenson could force the issue and get time but I doubt it. He is the Sony replacement for 2022 I would guess. Also would love to see the 2 big guys side by side on the Oline but it seems they will be on opp sides, still looking forward to watching a dominant line this year with the 2 TE sets. I also like Harry in that lineup as a very good blocking big guy who can be effective in the run game. I think Keene makes the team with his versatility, it's hard to cut a 3rd rd guy year 2. This team is going to be better than people think, the D is going to be top 5 and the running game is going to be also. BB likes this kind of team. All we need is decent to good QB play that doesn't throw int's. If they can get the passing game going they will be very good. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2021 7:47:15 GMT -5
I have been projecting Bolden as a cut since Stevenson was drafted, as well as Brandon King. The special teamers that didn't play last year were replaced, and I just don't see a place for them. I also agree on Keene. Best cast scenario for Pats is him forcing his way into the FB role by outblocking Johnson, because his upside is much better. My biggest question marks for the team are Michel and Harry. They seem very replaceable and if another team has any interest, I would see them being moved. I am expecting the defense to positively impact our offense this year, as starting field position should be better. But our offense should be improved as well. I know they will be on opposite sides of the line, but I daydream about Brown and Onwenu absolutely collapsing a def line in the run game. With an offense that is going to be run heavy they need both Michel and Harris for depth in case one gets hurt, Stevenson could force the issue and get time but I doubt it. He is the Sony replacement for 2022 I would guess. Also would love to see the 2 big guys side by side on the Oline but it seems they will be on opp sides, still looking forward to watching a dominant line this year with the 2 TE sets. I also like Harry in that lineup as a very good blocking big guy who can be effective in the run game. I think Keene makes the team with his versatility, it's hard to cut a 3rd rd guy year 2. This team is going to be better than people think, the D is going to be top 5 and the running game is going to be also. BB likes this kind of team. All we need is decent to good QB play that doesn't throw int's. If they can get the passing game going they will be very good. All we need is the guy who was terrible last year to be good and we will be all set 😜. That’s the problem, power running only works if you are a threat as a passing team. You need the passing threats to keep the defense soft. If not, they stack the box, don’t even worry about deep safeties and you’re screwed. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 24, 2021 9:03:22 GMT -5
Agreed and I actually think Cam will be better this year but if not I think Mac will be just fine. Give them a great Oline and the running threat and passing is a lot easier.
The Defense is going to be the story, especially early when O's have yet to gel. Just like a few years ago when the D gave up like 10 points a game for the first half of the season. That will help the O as they can win with 20 points which means you need a game manager at QB and don't need 300 yards passing every game. Now if the O does excel this team will win 13 games. Yes that is aggressive but I say they win 11 anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2021 10:01:30 GMT -5
This team had a great OL and running game last year. Zero doubt Newton will be better, I just don't know if he has enough accuracy to actually make a defense adjust. If I was coaching against the Patriots I'm doing exactly what teams did last year until Newton proves he can make you pay. Sure you don't need 300 yards passing every game, yet you need the ability to actually get 300 yards if teams sell out to stop the run. You won't be able to run like crazy until teams fear your passing attack.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2021 10:22:10 GMT -5
One of the worst circumstances is Cam being mediocre so they stick with him and have no ceiling.
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 24, 2021 11:05:10 GMT -5
This team had a great OL and running game last year. Zero doubt Newton will be better, I just don't know if he has enough accuracy to actually make a defense adjust. If I was coaching against the Patriots I'm doing exactly what teams did last year until Newton proves he can make you pay. Sure you don't need 300 yards passing every game, yet you need the ability to actually get 300 yards if teams sell out to stop the run. You won't be able to run like crazy until teams fear your passing attack. Yeah you do need both and Cam was inaccurate last year but you know what I am talking about with a D that gives up less than 15. It means you can play conservative on O. Cam did have a few good games and a better completion % than Brady the previous season, so I am going to be optimistic that Cam will be better. If not hopefully Mac performs well enough for BB to turn the job over to him. We were all apoplectic last year when they kept trotting Cam out there, can't see that happening again. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 24, 2021 11:07:17 GMT -5
One of the worst circumstances is Cam being mediocre so they stick with him and have no ceiling. If that is the case then Mac is just not ready. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2021 13:32:00 GMT -5
This team had a great OL and running game last year. Zero doubt Newton will be better, I just don't know if he has enough accuracy to actually make a defense adjust. If I was coaching against the Patriots I'm doing exactly what teams did last year until Newton proves he can make you pay. Sure you don't need 300 yards passing every game, yet you need the ability to actually get 300 yards if teams sell out to stop the run. You won't be able to run like crazy until teams fear your passing attack. Yeah you do need both and Cam was inaccurate last year but you know what I am talking about with a D that gives up less than 15. It means you can play conservative on O. Cam did have a few good games and a better completion % than Brady the previous season, so I am going to be optimistic that Cam will be better. If not hopefully Mac performs well enough for BB to turn the job over to him. We were all apoplectic last year when they kept trotting Cam out there, can't see that happening again. I don't think it's fair to compare Brady to Newton because Brady didn't have a great OL or RBs. Wynn missed eight games, Andrew's missed the year and Shaq Mason had a down year. We didn't have the same depth we did last year with two rookies playing well, it was guys signed off the street. 2019 18th in rushing yards, 25th in yards per attempt, 2020 4th in yards, 8th in yards per attempt. The fact Newton took more sacks in less games with a much better OL is scary. Brady had a bad OL and running attack, Newton had an elite one, yet he still sacked. It's tricky because we have no clue right now when Mac Jones is going to be ready. Tom Brady sat for a year and still really struggled his first games. I hope Mac Jones is some crazy super advanced guy and he's ready rather quickly. You just can't count on that. The great Payton Manning wasn't very good his first year throwing interceptions like crazy. So I certainly fear a full season of Newton driving me nuts. I figure worst if I say it enough he'll prove me wrong and have a huge year. When Bill loves a player, when they fully buy in they tend to stick around. Just look at Bolden. |
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 24, 2021 14:01:26 GMT -5
For a "where things stand" look following the close of OTA's, I was just waiting for Karen Guregian and Greg Bedard to update their Pre-Camp Roster Projections. Karen's still missing but I figured I'd aggregate the others (Bedard, NESN - Kyed, PatriotsWire - McKenna, NBCBoston - Perry, MassLive - Mason, Evan Lazar, Patsfans - Balestrieri and SportsHub - Barth) to see what the "local experts" think and how that might change as we go through camp.
By position (tried to group where possible to show the decisions to be made - again, to the extend that these are a good reflection of the competitions headed into July).
QB - The 2 locks are obvious (Newton and Jones). The others think Stidham will either make the team or get traded (with Kyed being the lone "cut him" prediction.
RB - Gaffney the only clear cut. Harris and Stevenson are "locks". Bedard thinks White could be traded (keeping Taylor). Patsfans that trade will be Michel. McKenna cuts Taylor.
WR - Agholor, Bourne, Meyers and Gunner are in all 8 projections. 5 of them keep Henry with Nixon (Kyed), Hall (McKenna) and Zuber (Barth) getting votes as well. Bedard and Barth think Harry will get traded.
FB/TE - Henry, Smith and Asiasi locked in while Johnson(FB) and Keane(TE/HB) battle over the 4th spot here.
OL - Wynn, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Brown, Karras and Herron are in the absolute consensus with Sherman in on 7 out of 8 projections. Ferentz(Balestrieri) and Redmond (McKenna) are picked as possibilities as well.
DL - Guy, Godchaux, Wise, Anderson and Barmore are the top 5. McKenna and Bedard chose to go with a 6th DL with Adams being their guy.
LB - Van Noy, Hightower, Judon, Uche and Perkins on all 8 projections. McKenna cuts Bentley. Bedard trades Wino (he's been on that for a while now). He also trades Jennings who is cut by Perry. McMillan replaces Jennings in those projections and is an extra guy in Mason's.
DB - Gilmore, Jackson, Jones, Bryant, Phillips, McCourty, Mills and Dugger are on all 8 projections. JoeJuan Williams appears on 5 projections with Michael Jackson Sr (McKenna), Dee Virgin (Perry) and Bledsoe (Bedard) being the competition.
ST - Bailey, Folk and Cardona (Bailey and Cardona via no competition) win their respective jobs in all 8 projections. Slater, Davis and Bethel do as well. Bolden (some list him at RB) is on 5 of the 8. His inclusion would seem to be linked to trades/cuts of the RBs and/or the inclusion of McMillan who is also seen as primarily a ST guy.
So that's 42 locks (8 out of 8 projections). 6 more (7/8) are close to it.
It's early but that's where the "experts" say we are. No real competition to determine that yet as OTAs are about teaching (per BB himself). It'll be interesting once the real competition begins. Injuries and Maximizing the Depth (all vets eligible for PS; IR "chicanery", etc) will play a big role as usual.
If KG does one before camp and adds anything that would be an outlier to the above, I'll update.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2021 14:15:30 GMT -5
I base the WRs off of chemistry with Mac Jones and Stidham. Kinda like when Meyers made it because of his connection with Stidham, instead of Brady. Can Mac Jones use Harry or Nixon? Nixon fits traits wise, gives you two speed guys.
I'm interested to see if Keane can find a role as a FB hybrid type guy.
I still wouldn't mind a veteran CB for more competition.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2021 15:14:48 GMT -5
I’ll consolidate a few thoughts here:
1. A mediocre Cam keeping his job won’t necessarily be an indication of Mac being ready or not. We’ve seen the pull Cam has in the locker room, I fear they will stick with him unless he’s a complete train wreck and I fear our definition of train wreck will be different than the Patriots.
2. If Stidham is the 3rd QB, it makes little sense to keep him around unless there’s drastic improvements and they truly feel he can be a strong starter in the league.
3. Keeping both Keane and Johnson like Bedard has in his projection, makes virtually no sense to me. Johnson isn’t that good to start with so if Keane can’t come close to his production as a FB and you want a FB, then what is he doing here? Unless there’s some drastic change with him as a tight end.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jun 24, 2021 15:15:49 GMT -5
David Delcastro was just cut by the Steelers…. Some team that needs oline help might have just gotten a gift… unless there is something up not reported yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Jun 24, 2021 15:24:01 GMT -5
David Delcastro was just cut by the Steelers…. Some team that needs oline help might have just gotten a gift… unless there is something up not reported yet. Garafolo saying the ankle is still an issue. Could be mulling retirement. |
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jun 24, 2021 15:50:32 GMT -5
If Keene can become half as productive as Kittle the Pats will have another good weapon. He could be better or worse but the traits are there with his college experience, athleticism and size so we can hope. Just work on blocking, it's mostly effort and technique.
Heck Johnson was good for a guy with little to no experience with some development.
|
|
|
