Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread

You don't keep both, Keene is the fullback/Hback. And I only mention Johnson to point out that learning how to block if you have the tools isn't the most difficult thing to do.  If he can be adequate blocking he could be a  dangerous weapon as a target. Don't get too caught up in last year as few offensive skill players are ever very productive in their rookie years for the Pats, plus he was injured. He showed he had some skill and versatility in college or BB wouldn't have taken him in the third so their is some talent there.  He is also a beast who could actually put on weight with the frame he has and still be athletic. I'm just hoping and being optimistic for the guy they drafted and the skill set he showed in college to transfer to the NFL.

When I said "better or worse", I meant Keene being better then last year not better than Kittle. I don't think it is far fetched to ask can he be half as productive as Kittle as a TE/FB hybrid. That brings a lot of versatility to the 2 TE set, heck go heavy with TE's and Keene and Harry on the field.  That is a very heavy run blocking group that "could" be dangerous with the play action as the D would be forced out of nickle with a lot of field to protect.

Johnson doesn't count against the roster so I would think they are both on the team this year as he basically gives the Pats an extra player to protect for depth. 

Thanks, I stand corrected on Johnsons roster status. Maybe he is an easy practice squad stash given the state of FB's in the league.

Oh ye of little faith.

From what I read, Asiasi was receiving a lot of praise during OTAs. He's definitely an important piece, it's not a given Smith or Henry will stay healthy, and having a viable third TE would allow them to continue to run heavy 12 personnel even if one of the top two guys miss time. There's also the possibility of some rare 3 TE packages in short yardage situations.

I agree with Umass, Keene was always a reach, especially given the trade up cost. To be fair to Keene, he's a decent athlete and Bill said there was nothing he did in college that they'd ask him to do here, he was a complete projection/project pick. For the draft cost I'd think Bill wants him to stick, it's tough to draft a guy that high and admit he's a total project who needs to do new things only to cut him in camp during year two. That said, it's tough to see how they waste a spot on him if he can't fill a role this season. Being able to contribute as a FB/H-back hybrid with some ST value could be enough to stick. If he's cut I'd bet he's added to some roster, so practice squad seems unlikely.

Keene was more than Kittle productive in college by the way.  

And what I am dreaming on is a FB that can do more than block, there is no room at the TE spot for Keene as he is surely 4th amongst them.

Everything you said supports what I have been saying, make him a FB period. He doesn't need to get open downfield. It was my mistake to compare him to Kittle, I was remembering a period of time where the Niners were lining him up in the backfield so I was thinking hybrid FB/TE, that isn't how he is used.

The Pats have had FBs that aren't much of a threat with the ball for the most part so he could be an upgrade.

Conversation piece… here is what Bédard thinks the trade value is for Pats players who could get dealt. I think he’s too high for some of these guys and many will likely be pick swaps.(see what autocorrect did to his name- why? I have no clue - not fixing it tho):


Stidham (4th or 5th)
Harry 3rd-5th
Cunningham 6th
Keene 5th
Michel ... contract year 5th
Cowart 5th
Winovich 3rd or 4th
Gilmore 2nd


It would be nice, if the Pats can flip 2-4 excess players for future draft capital. That’s rarely done, but this season is kind of an anomaly with them clearly having extra quality players.



On this list above, I really don’t want them dealing Gilmore or Sony. Both are too valuable to next years roster.

I feel like Winovich should be dealt. He’s a bad fit fit this team and the way they play defense and now he’s squeezed out of an easy to see role. If you can get a 3 for him or even a conditional 2 (say if he reaches 10 sacks), they should jump on it.

For me it's half of his production.

Skittles come in 5 different colors. It would be like getting 2 or 3 of the colors in a bag, hence yeah know about half a bag or so.

The Patriots’ offensive system hasn’t historically used that kind of gadget fullback/H-back, though. You see that more often in west coast offenses that have a lot of misdirection in their running game. The Patriots have instead been more of a traditional power/counter-style running game with pulling guards, double teams at the point of attack, etc. where their fullbacks are the more traditional big dudes who can block (think James Develin). Even their tight ends have more been the bigger guys who block and run up the seam (think Ben Watson, Marcellus Bennett, Dwayne Allen, Michael Hoomanawanui, Jermaine Wiggins). The exception was, of course, Aaron Hernandez, but he’s really the only one I can think of. That’s not to say that they can’t evolve their system, but it would really be a departure from historical practice.

I mean, if you don’t believe me, here’s Belichick on Keene right after the draft: “I mean, when you watch Dalton play, you just don’t see a lot of things that we do. The Virginia Tech offense didn’t really translate too much to a New England Patriot offense. That’s not uncommon with other players as well. It is what it is. I think the things you saw him do, which was his blocking, his effort to block, his toughness, ability to make plays with the ball in his hands, and certainly the intent of the offense to get him the ball was impressive. They did a lot of things to try to get him the ball one way or another: hand it to him, throw it to him, put him in different locations so that he could run with it or catch it and run with it. That’s what you saw. [...] I’ve already talked to him about that, that it’s going to be a big transition for him in terms of learning our system, being I would say more detailed, more specific on a lot of assignments, particularly in the passing game, learning how to block in close quarters. Again, he shows plenty of ability to do that in size, quickness and so forth. Just he hasn’t done a lot of it. He played quite a bit in the backfield, not as a fullback, but kind of an off-the-ball, sometimes a fullback location, but not really lined up behind the quarterback, but lined in the backfield, off the lines. A little bit of a different location than what we would normally use. He’s a smart kid. He’s athletic. He’s strong. He’s tough. I don’t see any reason why he can’t and won’t make those adjustments in time. We’ll work on it.”

He played three snaps in the backfield as a rookie, per PFF (compared to 102 as an in-line tight end, 26 in the slot and nine split out wide). If they were going to turn him into a Swiss Army knife FB/H-back, we should have seen more of it last year, when they were short pass catchers in general and fullbacks in particular. The Belichick quote above and his usage last year strongly suggest that they were projecting him into a traditional TE role that he didn’t play in college. That didn’t look great in year one, but he basically didn’t have an offseason last year and also struggled with multiple injuries. I still think he has a chance to stick on the roster, but suspect it’d be more as a traditional tight end than a FB/H-back.