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Red Sox FA Target: Kiké Hernandez (Update: Signed)
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,976
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Post by cdj on Jan 24, 2021 17:55:57 GMT -5
I’m just gonna call him Enrique
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 25, 2021 11:10:48 GMT -5
Thanks to grandsalami for the great idea: we implemented a word filter that will automatically add the accent to Kiké. Let me apologize to him publicly for poo-pooing the idea at first when I didn't realize what he meant!
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 25, 2021 13:48:26 GMT -5
Thanks to grandsalami for the great idea: we implemented a word filter that will automatically add the accent to Kiké. Let me apologize to him publicly for poo-pooing the idea at first when I didn't realize what he meant! No problem. I live in LA. So I have seen many people mistakenly post his name without the accent. Just wanted to avoid that happening here.
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Post by sittingstill on Jan 26, 2021 23:52:25 GMT -5
Regarding his last name, see this from the New York Times in 2016: His Instagram is usually what I use to point out that the diacritical mark in "Kiké" is an adaptation for English-speaking audiences, but the one in "Hernández" is his name. [Disclaimer: frustratingly, Smugmug's keywording doesn't recognize all kinds of things, from diacritical marks to punctuation.]
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Post by rasimon on Jan 27, 2021 3:14:36 GMT -5
KKH's OPBs since 2016: .283, .308, .336, .304, .270. I really don't like this signing, particularly the two years. He adds little to the team and they'll be in the hole $7M in AAV when try to build a contender in 2022. He had a over 10 percent walk rate from 2016-2018. Hopefully he can go back to that in 2021. He's not a big stolen base threat, but he's at least average in 4 or 5 positions he's expected to play. He's a solid signing. I don't get this signing at all. Yes he is a good defensive 2bman and he can play a few other positions, but he is a bad hitter against RHers - career 222/286/386. Those crappy numbers are somewhat hidden by LA keeping him away from RHers. According to the below about 29% of starts are by LH pitchers, but over his career Kiké has 1115 PAs vs RHers to 893 PAs vs LHers. Paying $14mm/2 years for a guy who sucks against 70% of pitchers seems like a luxury. Maybe it would make sense if the team was set everywhere else, but they still have some huge holes to fill. www.mlb.com/news/left-handed-pitchers-decreasing
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Post by jdb on Jan 27, 2021 8:59:28 GMT -5
I think we need to wait and see how he’s used. If it’s a starting 2B I’d agree but if he’s backing up everywhere he should be okay. I’m curious to see La Stellas numbers when his deal gets announced. He seemed like the best fit to me.
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Post by rasimon on Jan 27, 2021 11:26:35 GMT -5
He had a over 10 percent walk rate from 2016-2018. Hopefully he can go back to that in 2021. He's not a big stolen base threat, but he's at least average in 4 or 5 positions he's expected to play. He's a solid signing. I don't get this signing at all. Yes he is a good defensive 2bman and he can play a few other positions, but he is a bad hitter against RHers - career 222/286/386. Those crappy numbers are somewhat hidden by LA keeping him away from RHers. According to the below about 29% of starts are by LH pitchers, but over his career Kiké has 1115 PAs vs RHers to 893 PAs vs LHers. Paying $14mm/2 years for a guy who sucks against 70% of pitchers seems like a luxury. Maybe it would make sense if the team was set everywhere else, but they still have some huge holes to fill. www.mlb.com/news/left-handed-pitchers-decreasingbeating a dead horse vs RHers 222/286/386 vs LHers 263/345/474 if he is used full time, using weights of say 70% vs RHers and 30% vs LHers full time 234/303/412 that is a bad starter, even with the glove if he is utility-man, that is one expensive utility man, especially given the Sox other needs I would have rather given that role to Christian Arroyo.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 27, 2021 13:00:59 GMT -5
I don't get this signing at all. Yes he is a good defensive 2bman and he can play a few other positions, but he is a bad hitter against RHers - career 222/286/386. Those crappy numbers are somewhat hidden by LA keeping him away from RHers. According to the below about 29% of starts are by LH pitchers, but over his career Kiké has 1115 PAs vs RHers to 893 PAs vs LHers. Paying $14mm/2 years for a guy who sucks against 70% of pitchers seems like a luxury. Maybe it would make sense if the team was set everywhere else, but they still have some huge holes to fill. www.mlb.com/news/left-handed-pitchers-decreasingbeating a dead horse vs RHers 222/286/386 vs LHers 263/345/474 if he is used full time, using weights of say 70% vs RHers and 30% vs LHers full time 234/303/412 that is a bad starter, even with the glove if he is utility-man, that is one expensive utility man, especially given the Sox other needs I would have rather given that role to Christian Arroyo. Bingo. I'd rather have used the money on a better pitcher than Perez or a guy I'd have more confidence in to close. I like the Richards signing and Ottavino should help in the pen although I really don't prefer him in the 9th inning. I would have preferred Richards and Happ to Richards and Perez. I think they really got Hernandez because they probably would prefer to keep Verdugo out of CF and they know Duran isn't ready yet or may not be. That's the only rational thought I have about it, because otherwise, I'm with you. The overwhelming majority of the pitchers are RH. Are they really going to play him just about every day? I hope Duran is ready and ready soon or else it's not going to work out well.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 27, 2021 15:10:20 GMT -5
I think we need to wait and see how he’s used. If it’s a starting 2B I’d agree but if he’s backing up everywhere he should be okay. I’m curious to see La Stellas numbers when his deal gets announced. He seemed like the best fit to me. Don't know the money yet but he got 3 years, so there ya go.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jan 27, 2021 20:57:35 GMT -5
I don't get this signing at all. Yes he is a good defensive 2bman and he can play a few other positions, but he is a bad hitter against RHers - career 222/286/386. Those crappy numbers are somewhat hidden by LA keeping him away from RHers. According to the below about 29% of starts are by LH pitchers, but over his career Kiké has 1115 PAs vs RHers to 893 PAs vs LHers. Paying $14mm/2 years for a guy who sucks against 70% of pitchers seems like a luxury. Maybe it would make sense if the team was set everywhere else, but they still have some huge holes to fill. www.mlb.com/news/left-handed-pitchers-decreasingbeating a dead horse vs RHers 222/286/386 vs LHers 263/345/474 if he is used full time, using weights of say 70% vs RHers and 30% vs LHers full time 234/303/412 that is a bad starter, even with the glove if he is utility-man, that is one expensive utility man, especially given the Sox other needs I would have rather given that role to Christian Arroyo. If Kiké plays full-time as you say and has a .715 OPS that would rank him 10th as a 2b in 2019 That 303 OBP looks weak but that would rank 12th as a 2b in 2019. The 412 SLUG would rank 9th With an elite glove that is not a bad starter. Semi-platoon him with Arroyo who seems to hit RHP better despite being a RHH, and you can get a lot of offense out of 2b--compared to most teams. Right?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 27, 2021 22:10:05 GMT -5
Put it even simpler: MLB 2B hit .246/.312/.380 collectively last year. Just 9 teams' 2Bs did better than a .715 OPS. Meanwhile, Red Sox 2B hit .220/.273/.313 last year, worst in MLB.
The offensive production above is completely acceptable at that position. 2B is a black hole right now.
Plus, given his versatility, he could easily move off the position when Downs is ready.
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Post by manfred on Jan 27, 2021 22:28:06 GMT -5
Put it even simpler: MLB 2B hit .246/.312/.380 collectively last year. Just 9 teams' 2Bs did better than a .715 OPS. Meanwhile, Red Sox 2B hit .220/.273/.313 last year, worst in MLB. The offensive production above is completely acceptable at that position. 2B is a black hole right now. Plus, given his versatility, he could easily move off the position when Downs is ready. I hear this, but I always love the versatility guys who can’t hit at any position. Look! We can play him at second and be below average offensively there! Or we can move him to center and be below average there! I’d like to see them say “sure JDM is a butcher anywhere we put him, but his offense makes him versatile enough to be a far above average 2B, CF, C” etc etc.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jan 28, 2021 7:13:35 GMT -5
Put it even simpler: MLB 2B hit .246/.312/.380 collectively last year. Just 9 teams' 2Bs did better than a .715 OPS. Meanwhile, Red Sox 2B hit .220/.273/.313 last year, worst in MLB. The offensive production above is completely acceptable at that position. 2B is a black hole right now. Plus, given his versatility, he could easily move off the position when Downs is ready. I hear this, but I always love the versatility guys who can’t hit at any position. Look! We can play him at second and be below average offensively there! Or we can move him to center and be below average there! I’d like to see them say “sure JDM is a butcher anywhere we put him, but his offense makes him versatile enough to be a far above average 2B, CF, C” etc etc. How can you react to two posts showing clearly that Hernandez is above average offensively for a 2b by saying "We can play him at second and be below average offensively there!"
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Post by manfred on Jan 28, 2021 8:46:48 GMT -5
I hear this, but I always love the versatility guys who can’t hit at any position. Look! We can play him at second and be below average offensively there! Or we can move him to center and be below average there! I’d like to see them say “sure JDM is a butcher anywhere we put him, but his offense makes him versatile enough to be a far above average 2B, CF, C” etc etc. How can you react to two posts showing clearly that Hernandez is above average offensively for a 2b by saying "We can play him at second and be below average offensively there!" “I hear this” “Versatility guys”
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Post by incandenza on Jan 28, 2021 9:20:59 GMT -5
Put it even simpler: MLB 2B hit .246/.312/.380 collectively last year. Just 9 teams' 2Bs did better than a .715 OPS. Meanwhile, Red Sox 2B hit .220/.273/.313 last year, worst in MLB. The offensive production above is completely acceptable at that position. 2B is a black hole right now. Plus, given his versatility, he could easily move off the position when Downs is ready. I hear this, but I always love the versatility guys who canât hit at any position. Look! We can play him at second and be below average offensively there! Or we can move him to center and be below average there! Iâd like to see them say âsure JDM is a butcher anywhere we put him, but his offense makes him versatile enough to be a far above average 2B, CF, Câ etc etc. The epitome of this being, I think you'd have to say, Eduardo Nunez, who was terrible both offensively and defensively at multiple infield positions, which meant the manager had several options about where to play him!
(Kiké is going to be so much better.)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 28, 2021 15:55:42 GMT -5
Yup, fair point. Like everyone who was pissed they let Brock Holt walk and cited his versatility.
FWIW, I wonder if part of this signing as well is that (if I'm remembering the right guy) Hernandez is supposed to be a good clubhouse guy. When we had Alex Speier on the pod, he referred to Holt being gone as something that hurt Benintendi as he was struggling - he was in the next locker, would be his sounding board, etc. Was last year's team devoid of those kind of guys? I always poo-pooed the whole "locker room guy" thing, but the longer I am a sports fan the more I think there might be something to it. Do I think it's worth keeping a complete zero on the roster for that reason? No. Is there something to the fact that winning is the best thing to make a clubhouse positive? I think so. But between Millar in '04, Gomes in '13, etc., and the years things have fallen apart owing in part to clubhouse issues (Valentine, chicken and beer, the young guys being treated like crap in 2014 (or was it '15?) such that they were happy to get demoted to Pawtucket, etc.) you start to wonder.
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Post by incandenza on Jan 28, 2021 16:06:49 GMT -5
Yup, fair point. Like everyone who was pissed they let Brock Holt walk and cited his versatility. FWIW, I wonder if part of this signing as well is that (if I'm remembering the right guy) Hernandez is supposed to be a good clubhouse guy. When we had Alex Speier on the pod, he referred to Holt being gone as something that hurt Benintendi as he was struggling - he was in the next locker, would be his sounding board, etc. Was last year's team devoid of those kind of guys? I always poo-pooed the whole "locker room guy" thing, but the longer I am a sports fan the more I think there might be something to it. Do I think it's worth keeping a complete zero on the roster for that reason? No. Is there something to the fact that winning is the best thing to make a clubhouse positive? I think so. But between Millar in '04, Gomes in '13, etc., and the years things have fallen apart owing in part to clubhouse issues (Valentine, chicken and beer, the young guys being treated like crap in 2014 (or was it '15?) such that they were happy to get demoted to Pawtucket, etc.) you start to wonder. I'm sorry what now?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 28, 2021 16:17:05 GMT -5
It's in Alex's book. The '14 team had a bunch of known jackasses like Pierzynski who were doing the standard veteran-rookie garbage such that Mookie and/or Bradley said when being interviewed for the book that they were thrilled to get optioned to Pawtucket and out of that clubhouse. I can't remember which other veterans were involved (Drew? Lackey?), but this was apparently part of the reason why they just DFA'ed Pierzynski in early July (not that he was giving them much on the field either at that point).
I guess the two of them and Bogaerts were absolutely miserable and it was likely part of why none of them set the world on fire that season (Betts' numbers wound up good but he did most of his damage in August/September after those guys were jettisoned, and both Bogaerts and Bradley had bad years).
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Post by manfred on Jan 28, 2021 16:20:35 GMT -5
Yup, fair point. Like everyone who was pissed they let Brock Holt walk and cited his versatility. FWIW, I wonder if part of this signing as well is that (if I'm remembering the right guy) Hernandez is supposed to be a good clubhouse guy. When we had Alex Speier on the pod, he referred to Holt being gone as something that hurt Benintendi as he was struggling - he was in the next locker, would be his sounding board, etc. Was last year's team devoid of those kind of guys? I always poo-pooed the whole "locker room guy" thing, but the longer I am a sports fan the more I think there might be something to it. Do I think it's worth keeping a complete zero on the roster for that reason? No. Is there something to the fact that winning is the best thing to make a clubhouse positive? I think so. But between Millar in '04, Gomes in '13, etc., and the years things have fallen apart owing in part to clubhouse issues (Valentine, chicken and beer, the young guys being treated like crap in 2014 (or was it '15?) such that they were happy to get demoted to Pawtucket, etc.) you start to wonder. The locker-room guy(s) is so important. I think about the life of these guys over a season: long days at a park, months in hotels, etc. I think the emotional life of players is not taken nearly seriously enough as a factor in their play, and I bet especially there is a correlation with the depth of slides... that is, a team of 26 cabs that has a few things go wrong sinks much deeper and faster than otherwise (and same goes for players, like your Beni case). Eric was talking about sleep — it seems so obvious once it’s said, but it sounds like it was a revelation at some point. Players aren’t machines that get turned on at first pitch and stored after the last out. A poor environment likely makes for a worse team.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 28, 2021 16:21:14 GMT -5
Yeah what year was it they installed the napping pods?
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Post by manfred on Jan 28, 2021 16:22:24 GMT -5
It's in Alex's book. The '14 team had a bunch of known jackasses like Pierzynski who were doing the standard veteran-rookie garbage such that Mookie and/or Bradley said when being interviewed for the book that they were thrilled to get optioned to Pawtucket and out of that clubhouse. I can't remember which other veterans were involved (Drew? Lackey?), but this was apparently part of the reason why they just DFA'ed Pierzynski in early July (not that he was giving them much on the field either at that point). I guess the two of them and Bogaerts were absolutely miserable and it was likely part of why none of them set the world on fire that season (Betts' numbers wound up good but he did most of his damage in August/September after those guys were jettisoned, and both Bogaerts and Bradley had bad years). Pierzynski, man. Dude is one of the obvious first ballot Jackass Hall of Famers from my baseball-watching lifetime.
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Post by ramireja on Jan 28, 2021 16:23:11 GMT -5
Yup, fair point. Like everyone who was pissed they let Brock Holt walk and cited his versatility. FWIW, I wonder if part of this signing as well is that (if I'm remembering the right guy) Hernandez is supposed to be a good clubhouse guy. When we had Alex Speier on the pod, he referred to Holt being gone as something that hurt Benintendi as he was struggling - he was in the next locker, would be his sounding board, etc. Was last year's team devoid of those kind of guys? I always poo-pooed the whole "locker room guy" thing, but the longer I am a sports fan the more I think there might be something to it. Do I think it's worth keeping a complete zero on the roster for that reason? No. Is there something to the fact that winning is the best thing to make a clubhouse positive? I think so. But between Millar in '04, Gomes in '13, etc., and the years things have fallen apart owing in part to clubhouse issues (Valentine, chicken and beer, the young guys being treated like crap in 2014 (or was it '15?) such that they were happy to get demoted to Pawtucket, etc.) you start to wonder. We're talking about 162 game season with long games (and potentially no or few fans this year). I think there absolutely is something to having a manager who keeps things fun and fresh and having players that help with that dynamic. You'll never be able to quantify its importance but I definitely think it matters.
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Post by ramireja on Jan 28, 2021 16:25:25 GMT -5
One that I think set Kiké apart from the other 2B/utility options is his ability to play CF. I know some folks are still planning on another CF acquisition, but as I look at the payroll, I'm betting Verdugo is the CF this year with Hernandez as the 2nd option there (and probably Benintendi as the 3rd option with Duran lurking in the minors).
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Post by incandenza on Jan 28, 2021 17:02:13 GMT -5
It's in Alex's book. The '14 team had a bunch of known jackasses like Pierzynski who were doing the standard veteran-rookie garbage such that Mookie and/or Bradley said when being interviewed for the book that they were thrilled to get optioned to Pawtucket and out of that clubhouse. I can't remember which other veterans were involved (Drew? Lackey?), but this was apparently part of the reason why they just DFA'ed Pierzynski in early July (not that he was giving them much on the field either at that point). I guess the two of them and Bogaerts were absolutely miserable and it was likely part of why none of them set the world on fire that season (Betts' numbers wound up good but he did most of his damage in August/September after those guys were jettisoned, and both Bogaerts and Bradley had bad years). Good grief, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Their behavior, I mean, not the theory that it affected the young guys. (And the thought of a guy like Pierzynski thinking he needs to put guys like Mookie/Xander/JBJ in their places... They're all so much classier than him.) And where was Farrell on this?
I've always wondered about the social/emotional dynamics with all that togetherness. I really enjoy socializing, but I'm also somewhat introverted, which means I need a decent amount of solitude to recharge. Being around a whole crowd of dudes every day, in the clubhouse, traveling, etc., sounds exhausting to me. I wonder how many careers turned out to be less than they could have been because of that sort of thing...
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jan 28, 2021 18:42:40 GMT -5
One that I think set Kiké apart from the other 2B/utility options is his ability to play CF. I know some folks are still planning on another CF acquisition, but as I look at the payroll, I'm betting Verdugo is the CF this year with Hernandez as the 2nd option there (and probably Benintendi as the 3rd option with Duran lurking in the minors). So they don’t need a CF, but would still need a LHH RF to keep Renfroe from playing seven days a week?
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