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Chaim Bloom and the Red Sox Rebuild
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 31, 2021 13:32:10 GMT -5
Oops, my bad my man. Yeah, I definitely agree with you, I don't understand the negativity either. I'm still salty over the Mookie trade, but we have to be reasonable about the state of the Sox and it's not "win now". We're recuperating from win now. So well said, guys! It has been an exciting season, but "man" there are lots of holes and weaknesses on this team. I'm amazed that Cora and the players are where they are. I believe they will definitely get in the playoffs but throwing out the prime directive immediately is wrong. Let's get this right and build something that lasts year after year. The spare parts Bloom has brought together have done a great job but we will not be anywhere near a favorite with us relying on guys like Santana and Marwin. We need LOTS of pitching, not one starter. If Houck and Sale come through, we have a chance to make some noise, but we have lots of "black-holes" in our line-up and in our rotation. I, for one, don't want them throwing all their gains at the Farm away. Bloom has a vision I agree with. I love the draft, even if Fabian doesn't sign. Some of our kids are looking like keepers. Be patient little grasshopper! Bloom sees all!! Couldn't have said it better...
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 31, 2021 18:31:21 GMT -5
So. Yah. The entire rotation has fallen off the Waggon.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 31, 2021 19:25:58 GMT -5
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redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,665
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 31, 2021 21:33:41 GMT -5
So maybe they could have fortified the overtaxed bullpen with better arms than Robles and Davis. We'll never know. We are all quite aware that getting 1 starter is expensive let alone 3 or 4.
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Post by tyler3 on Aug 1, 2021 0:48:13 GMT -5
It’s easy to look at what others did at the deadline and wonder about the disparity…but I think we need to look closer at where those teams are in their life cycle. The dodgers finally got one last year, but all that young core is now becoming rapidly expensive, and they are in the kinda, buy and trade what you can so that window doesn’t produce just one, season shortened WS. They are not going to operate at 275 mill for the next 5 years. The astros likewise have one last shot before free agency dismantles their core of old. The white Sox are trying to break through finally. The Yankees and the Phillies are trying to stay relevant with bloated salaries high expectations.
The plus in all of this is I don’t see a power house in our win cycle. The dodgers and Yankees have refused to re-boot and mirror each other almost perfectly. This is the last gasp of the astros. If Chaim stays the course there could be a 3 to 4 year period where we are hitting our stride while the others are either rebooting, or rebuilding.
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Post by jbsox on Aug 1, 2021 1:19:53 GMT -5
So maybe they could have fortified the overtaxed bullpen with better arms than Robles and Davis. We'll never know. We are all quite aware that getting 1 starter is expensive let alone 3 or 4. Better arms like Springs and Mazza. Lol Seriously though I wonder if we would have better off just keeping at least Springs in the system this year as depth. Of course the trade off is you don’t have R Hernandez as a prospect, but it maybe allows you to keep Scherff on the other hand.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,053
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Post by cdj on Aug 1, 2021 7:50:21 GMT -5
So maybe they could have fortified the overtaxed bullpen with better arms than Robles and Davis. We'll never know. We are all quite aware that getting 1 starter is expensive let alone 3 or 4. Better arms like Springs and Mazza. Lol Seriously though I wonder if we would have better off just keeping at least Springs in the system this year as depth. Of course the trade off is you don’t have R Hernandez as a prospect, but it maybe allows to maybe keep Scherff on the other hand. his leg did just explode so maybe not
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 1, 2021 8:50:15 GMT -5
It seems like Bloom looked at the team, the starters, the 40 man roster, and kept with the plan to build instead of going all in. Next year will certainly be a critical decision year, it seems like he did the least possible to 1. make sure they addressed critical needs and 2. not affect future MLB depth in high minors. I'm okay with it I guess, but Sale/Schwarber could range from not a ton of impact, to huge upgrades at the areas most in need of help.
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Post by brittdad on Aug 1, 2021 9:11:26 GMT -5
The fact that Rizzo is tearing the cover off the ball for the Yankees and Schwarber still cant get onto the field is not helping Bloom's case.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 1, 2021 11:09:01 GMT -5
The fact that Rizzo is tearing the cover off the ball for the Yankees and Schwarber still cant get onto the field is not helping Bloom's case. It’s two games my dude.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2021 12:59:29 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? I've said it before, but one good way to get a sense of Bloom's thinking is to listen to his oft-repeated public statements. How many times has he said that the goal is to build a consistent contender? So no, it's not always 'win now' if the opportunity presents itself if that comes at the expense of future opportunities to 'win now.'
Plus I wouldn't exactly say they punted at the trade deadline, what with having added an all-star slugger and all.
I also would not say that JDM and Eovaldi are some sort of lynchpins of the team that they have to go all out with while they have the chance. We're talking about a 2/3 starter and a one-dimensional hitter combining for $36 million/year. If Bloom does his job well they can be replaced when their contracts come off the books. (They absolutely need to extend Devers though.)
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Post by manfred on Aug 1, 2021 13:10:20 GMT -5
Isn’t it always win now if the opportunity presents itself? I mean, I get they want to build the minors, but JD might be gone soon, they have choices with X and Devers, Eovaldi is most of the way through his contract etc. Why do we think keeping the powder dry makes them more likely to win in a few years? I've said it before, but one good way to get a sense of Bloom's thinking is to listen to his oft-repeated public statements. How many times has he said that the goal is to build a consistent contender? So no, it's not always 'win now' if the opportunity presents itself if that comes at the expense of future opportunities to 'win now.'
Plus I wouldn't exactly say they punted at the trade deadline, what with having added an all-star slugger and all.
I also would not say that JDM and Eovaldi are some sort of lynchpins of the team that they have to go all out with while they have the chance. We're talking about a 2/3 starter and a one-dimensional hitter combining for $36 million/year. If Bloom does his job well they can be replaced when their contracts come off the books. (They absolutely need to extend Devers though.)
I agree with this, really, but the Eovaldi/JDM thing is a problem. I mean, we can say what we like about Evo, but he’s been very good and would (will) likely get a raise. So replacing him and JDM is far easier said than done.
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 1, 2021 13:13:10 GMT -5
I've said it before, but one good way to get a sense of Bloom's thinking is to listen to his oft-repeated public statements. How many times has he said that the goal is to build a consistent contender? So no, it's not always 'win now' if the opportunity presents itself if that comes at the expense of future opportunities to 'win now.'
Plus I wouldn't exactly say they punted at the trade deadline, what with having added an all-star slugger and all.
I also would not say that JDM and Eovaldi are some sort of lynchpins of the team that they have to go all out with while they have the chance. We're talking about a 2/3 starter and a one-dimensional hitter combining for $36 million/year. If Bloom does his job well they can be replaced when their contracts come off the books. (They absolutely need to extend Devers though.)
I agree with this, really, but the Eovaldi/JDM thing is a problem. I mean, we can say what we like about Evo, but he’s been very good and would (will) likely get a raise. So replacing him and JDM is far easier said than done. The hope would be that we still have eovaldi for next year and that a guy like Bello, Groome, Seabold etc can prove to be a rotation caliber pitcher by the end of next year and then you use that eovaldi/JD money to get a really good starter. Edit: I'll add to my post it's unfortunate we didn't see that happen this year and will probably be reserved to once again sign the perez's and Richards of the world instead of slotting in a guy making Peanuts comparatively with way more upside.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2021 14:48:49 GMT -5
I've said it before, but one good way to get a sense of Bloom's thinking is to listen to his oft-repeated public statements. How many times has he said that the goal is to build a consistent contender? So no, it's not always 'win now' if the opportunity presents itself if that comes at the expense of future opportunities to 'win now.'
Plus I wouldn't exactly say they punted at the trade deadline, what with having added an all-star slugger and all.
I also would not say that JDM and Eovaldi are some sort of lynchpins of the team that they have to go all out with while they have the chance. We're talking about a 2/3 starter and a one-dimensional hitter combining for $36 million/year. If Bloom does his job well they can be replaced when their contracts come off the books. (They absolutely need to extend Devers though.)
I agree with this, really, but the Eovaldi/JDM thing is a problem. I mean, we can say what we like about Evo, but he’s been very good and would (will) likely get a raise. So replacing him and JDM is far easier said than done. I do think that JDM likes it in Boston and wants to stay. But if he leaves, I hope that Schwarber really likes it in Boston and wants to stay. There's JDM's replacement.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 1, 2021 22:15:13 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 1, 2021 22:25:24 GMT -5
So. Yah. IMO Bloom was right to not GFIN
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2021 23:06:32 GMT -5
Now that the trade deadline and draft signings are in the books, here's something from the Bloom Really Means the Stuff He Says, Guys Department:
FV values
| BAL
| BOS
| NYY
| TB
| TOR
| 60 or above
| 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 50 or above
| 6 | 4 | 6 | 10 | 6 | 45 or above
| 12 | 11 | 12 | 16 | 8 | 40 or above
| 33 | 38 | 26 | 34 | 26 | 35+ or above
| 47 | 55 | 45 | 57 | 40 |
These are prospect ratings from fangraphs (chosen only because they make it easy to look up and compare; they still have Fabian listed but I didn't count him here). The farm systems in the AL East are really strong at the moment - I think all 5 are above average, 3 are in the top 10, and TB is at the top of the majors; BAL is just behind them and TOR was until they took a hit at the trade deadline. Anyway, by this high standard the top of the Red Sox system is still a bit behind the others. But what's interesting to me is that they now have as much depth as any farm system in the division, even the Rays - and again, this is a strong bunch. The Red Sox have the 3rd-most 40 FV prospects in the majors, and the 6th-most 35+ prospects (though they're still only the 12th-ranked system due to the lightness at the top).
The value of farm system depth is, of course, one thing that Bloom has been preaching since he got here.
It's also interesting that in every major trade made in the division at the deadline (Cruz, Gallo, Rizzo, Berrios, Schwarber) the buying team gave up multiple prospects - with one exception. You know which one. And I don't think that's a coincidence.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 1, 2021 23:58:57 GMT -5
To add on to this (I made the above above Google sheets links public so you should be able to view them without logging in ) Richards has had one month with an era under 4 (may) e-rod has had one month with an ERA under 4 (April) Perez has had one month with an ERA under 4 (may) Pivetta has had one month with an era under 4 (april) and like earlier Eovaldi has had 3 months with an era under 4. months with an era of 5.00 or above Richards (2) 7+ in June and 5+ in july E-rod- (2) (7+ in may, 6+ in June) perez (2) (5+ in June and 6+ in July)
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 2, 2021 8:24:58 GMT -5
I agree with this, really, but the Eovaldi/JDM thing is a problem. I mean, we can say what we like about Evo, but he’s been very good and would (will) likely get a raise. So replacing him and JDM is far easier said than done. I do think that JDM likes it in Boston and wants to stay. But if he leaves, I hope that Schwarber really likes it in Boston and wants to stay. There's JDM's replacement. I hope they both like playing in Boston also. JD has obviously been here a while so he has a good feel for it. Schwarber has said he is excited to come here so that is a start but then again that would be typical FA speak, he does seem to be the type of guy who would like it here, a lot depends on how it goes in these next couple months. I think with the way rosters are being built right now with pitching taking up so many spots that it is hard to have DH only guys and Chaim will not value that guy so much. It will be interesting to see if the NL goes with the DH as it will have a big effect on a guy like JD. He might just have to opt in as the Sox might not be willing to give him a raise, his bat would be missed for sure but Schwarber would help.
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Post by juanpena on Aug 2, 2021 8:36:23 GMT -5
Extending Devers needs to be priority 1 this offseason.
I would say redoing Bogaerts' deal is No. 2, but Devers is a must.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 2, 2021 9:17:26 GMT -5
Are we sure JDM is going to opt out? He is set to finish with just over 3 fwar at this pace. Is it really worth him testing the market?
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 2, 2021 9:21:38 GMT -5
Are we sure JDM is going to opt out? He is set to finish with just over 3 fwar at this pace. Is it really worth him testing the market? I am sure Boras will be testing the market before he opts out or says, he should right? I think it might hinge on the NL and if they go with it, that will determine his market.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 2, 2021 9:22:26 GMT -5
I don’t think he opts out because he has to make that decision before a new CBA will be agreed to & I don’t think Devers representatives will talk extension until there is new CBA as well.
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Post by patford on Aug 2, 2021 9:30:10 GMT -5
One thing about the Sox literally disintegrating is they can now have a good long look at Duran, Dalbec and Franchy. The thing that sucks is pissing away a high upside prospect for Schwarber who will be a useless piece by the time he gets back as they should be playing the younger guys everyday from here until the end of the year.
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Post by patford on Aug 2, 2021 9:31:38 GMT -5
Are we sure JDM is going to opt out? He is set to finish with just over 3 fwar at this pace. Is it really worth him testing the market? Hopefully he does opt out because he's not worth 19M.
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