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2021 national rankings (in season)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 16, 2021 14:25:41 GMT -5
Do you not remember Duran raking even more than Yorke at the same level? Granted he was a bit older, but he was raking like no one since Mookie. The other difference is that Yorke walks a lot more often than Duran did/does. That indicates to me a more mature approach in a player conquering the level at a younger age. Yorke has the growth curve in his favor while Duran who has turned 25 does not. Still, I think there's more to Duran than what we see. No, I don't expect him to be a real patient hitter, but I think he can cut down on his Ks a little more and put the ball into play a little more and use his speed a little more. The power is there. I don't think he has to try to hit for power. He's a strong kid who can get hold of a pitch, but I don't think that he needs to sell out to hit for some power. I know others are ready to give up on him and I can see what they're seeing, so-so BA, mediocre OBP, speed not translating into stolen bases or above average defense - sell high, but I still think he can be a guy who can hit .275 with 20 HR power and 30 steals, a useful player being paid at minimum wage. The key will be for him to be able to make contact. The fact that he could hit for a high average back then indicates the ability to have a good hit tool. I think Yorke will succeed because he's already drawing his walks and he has more time to master the strike zone, which he's already doing. FWIW: Duran walked at a 10.2% rate in Salem. Yorke is at 11.8%. I don't think that's a meaningful difference. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 16, 2021 14:26:51 GMT -5
Do you not remember Duran raking even more than Yorke at the same level? Granted he was a bit older, but he was raking like no one since Mookie. Duran did that at age 22!!! Not 19 like Yorke. Huge difference! He literally said that he was older. You've got about 4 exclamation points too many in here, friend. |
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Post by telson13 on Sept 16, 2021 14:39:30 GMT -5
The level of disrespect that Nick Yorke is getting is laughable. He'll play with chips on his shoulder I'm sure. Nick Yorke is the archetype of why I love hit tool players. Within reason you can rehab shoulders, quicken footwork, drill, drill, drill, and improve "raw" things like power and speed. Hitting requires adaptation (and the twitch/bat control/vision/recognition) and there's just a cutoff for a LOT of players where no matter how hard they work at it, they can't make sufficient hard frequent contact to be viable MLBers. Great hitters might have to be polished, but I think they're really born with it or not. Yorke's been incredible this year as just a 19-y/o. He probably gets a small taste of AA (although a lot of competition at that point will be promoted high A guys) before he hits 20. He also looks like maybe...maybe...he's one of those guys who hits it on the screws so often that he hits for more power than his raw might predict. It's exciting watching him develop. |
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Post by jaffinator on Sept 16, 2021 15:10:01 GMT -5
Can we collectively agree to pump the breaks on Yorke just a little bit and have a little bit longer of a memory when it comes to burying recently promoted prospects? It was barely a month ago that Bobby Dalbec had no hope of becoming an MLB regular (according to posters here) and now we're ready to bury Duran for having a period of struggle - and the guy we champion in his stead has less than 100 PAs in high-A right now.
Patience, it's a virtue.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 16, 2021 15:17:55 GMT -5
Do you not remember Duran raking even more than Yorke at the same level? Granted he was a bit older, but he was raking like no one since Mookie. Duran did that at age 22!!! Not 19 like Yorke. Huge difference! True, but he was also a 7th-rounder who'd been taught for three years to hit like it was 1986 and he was Willie Mays Hayes, and he underwent an extremely successful swing change. Then did it again. I don't really get why people are so down on Duran again. It's just like his AA struggles. Maybe he's not a savant...but he has outstanding tools, works hard, and is adaptable. He's already shown at least four times (swing change after draft, position change after draft, AA struggles, AAA swing change to unlock plus game power) that he can make major adjustments and go on to substantial success. At different points in his pro career he's been a near-.400 hitter, walked 10% of the time, been a prolific base stealer, and legitimate power hitter. Jeez, the kid got no real games all of last year and now everyone's decided he's over the hill and has no future because he's 25? Lol, people need to give the kid at least a year to make the adjustments before they write him off. I still think there's a pretty reasonable chance he puts most of that together for a few years in MLB. |
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Post by incandenza on Sept 16, 2021 15:41:21 GMT -5
Duran did that at age 22!!! Not 19 like Yorke. Huge difference! True, but he was also a 7th-rounder who'd been taught for three years to hit like it was 1986 and he was Willie Mays Hayes, and he underwent an extremely successful swing change. Then did it again. I don't really get why people are so down on Duran again. It's just like his AA struggles. Maybe he's not a savant... but he has outstanding tools, works hard, and is adaptable. He's already shown at least four times (swing change after draft, position change after draft, AA struggles, AAA swing change to unlock plus game power) that he can make major adjustments and go on to substantial success. At different points in his pro career he's been a near-.400 hitter, walked 10% of the time, been a prolific base stealer, and legitimate power hitter. Jeez, the kid got no real games all of last year and now everyone's decided he's over the hill and has no future because he's 25? Lol, people need to give the kid at least a year to make the adjustments before they write him off. I still think there's a pretty reasonable chance he puts most of that together for a few years in MLB. A lot of calls to not give up on Duran, but I don't think anyone is doing that? I wouldn't take issue with a ranking toward the back end of the top 100. And I'm personally discounting his major league performance to date entirely.
The problem is, he does not appear to have outstanding tools or be especially adaptable on the defensive side. It's concerning that, with his speed, he's not even really adequate yet in the outfield. Unlike with hitting, his level of competition shouldn't really matter for that. And that puts a lot of pressure on the bat, which even in AAA he had a couple of yellow flags - big home/road splits, and a less than stellar K rate.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,201 
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Post by jimoh on Sept 16, 2021 16:53:52 GMT -5
Duran did that at age 22!!! Not 19 like Yorke. Huge difference! He literally said that he was older. You've got about 4 exclamation points too many in here, friend. He literally said " a bit older." Saying "three years older, with three years of college experience" would have been much better. |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 16, 2021 18:14:10 GMT -5
He literally said that he was older. You've got about 4 exclamation points too many in here, friend. He literally said " a bit older." Saying "three years older, with three years of college experience" would have been much better. Right, so my point makes absolutely zero sense, right? College guys cannot ever be prospects I guess unless they immediately make the majors after being drafted because they are always much older. |
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 17, 2021 9:27:35 GMT -5
I moved some of the more general Duran discussion to the Duran-specific thread.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,201
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Post by jimoh on Sept 17, 2021 11:35:24 GMT -5
He literally said " a bit older." Saying "three years older, with three years of college experience" would have been much better. Right, so my point makes absolutely zero sense, right? College guys cannot ever be prospects I guess unless they immediately make the majors after being drafted because they are always much older. Your reaction to my simple criticism of your use of the inaccurate phrase "a bit older" seems a bit crazed and over the top and so exaggerated as to be incomprehensible. Why so upset? Why not say, "yeah, you're right, I could have phrased that more accurately but I think my basic point still stands despite the three-year age difference"? |
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 17, 2021 12:20:37 GMT -5
It's really 2 years with a bit of overlap into the 3rd year, but I'm not getting into a dragged out debate about what "a bit" means. I did point out that he was older and he did in fact hit much more than just about anyone regardless of age. If that's 100% wrong to you, then that's your problem. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to get into this dumb argument over nuances.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 17, 2021 15:47:39 GMT -5
Semantics, typical thread derail BS (on both sides which is also typical).
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Post by jmei on Sept 17, 2021 19:28:29 GMT -5
Please move on. Thanks.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Sept 21, 2021 17:46:35 GMT -5
Not sure if mentioned yet but Fangraphs has Yorke at 75 and Downs still at 80
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 21, 2021 21:09:44 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 21, 2021 22:44:58 GMT -5
The write-up for Yorke is really stale, no other word for it. There's no mention of this year's A/A+ work at all. While I understand they don't rerank it makes it seem they're uninformed - a bad look. And they need some serious editing. The second to last sentence is just a mess.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 22, 2021 6:32:07 GMT -5
The write-up for Yorke is really stale, no other word for it. There's no mention of this year's A/A+ work at all. While I understand they don't rerank it makes it seem they're uninformed - a bad look. And they need some serious editing. The second to last sentence is just a mess. From reading general comments, they also don't update the scouting reports and scouting grades mid season either. |
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Post by stevedillard on Sept 22, 2021 8:22:13 GMT -5
Have to say that a lot of the draft kids put up pretty impressive numbers. Davis in a short bit before injury, the Orioles surprise pick Cowser, right behind Mayer, was quickly promoted to A ball and OPSed above 1000. Both of the other options, House and Watson his above 300 with power. Colorado's HSer Montgomery hit above 340. Lawler was of course injured early, but had a good week.
So, stats alone, it seems there were several position player options that would have worked out for the Sox.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 29, 2021 9:04:17 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 29, 2021 9:52:17 GMT -5
I'm really happy to hear about Blaze Jordan's better than expected defense at 3b. It keeps alive the dream I have of an infield featuring Casas/Yorke/Mayer/Jordan. |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Sept 29, 2021 11:16:18 GMT -5
I'm really happy to hear about Blaze Jordan's better than expected defense at 3b. It keeps alive the dream I have of an infield featuring Casas/Yorke/Mayer/Jordan.Love the concept but given this year's struggles it worries me that only Mayer profiles as a potential plus defender as of now |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 29, 2021 11:33:00 GMT -5
I'm really happy to hear about Blaze Jordan's better than expected defense at 3b. It keeps alive the dream I have of an infield featuring Casas/Yorke/Mayer/Jordan.Love the concept but given this year's struggles it worries me that only Mayer profiles as a potential plus defender as of now I'd be thrilled with average. Maybe X winds up at 2b with Yorke in LF and Devers at DH? I'm kind of kidding about that. |
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Post by tijas2 on Sept 29, 2021 13:29:45 GMT -5
Love the concept but given this year's struggles it worries me that only Mayer profiles as a potential plus defender as of now I'd be thrilled with average. Maybe X winds up at 2b with Yorke in LF and Devers at DH? I'm kind of kidding about that. One can dream, but I seriously doubt that Xander moves to 2B. He'll be 3B or LF when he moves off of SS. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 29, 2021 13:44:38 GMT -5
I'd be thrilled with average. Maybe X winds up at 2b with Yorke in LF and Devers at DH? I'm kind of kidding about that. One can dream, but I seriously doubt that Xander moves to 2B. He'll be 3B or LF when he moves off of SS. I agree. So X in LF and Yorke at 2b?  |
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 30, 2021 8:50:06 GMT -5
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