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Celtics 2021 Offseason
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2021 13:52:04 GMT -5
So sad but the fact is they have their big 3 signed for the next 2 years and if they can stay healthy they will be a very tough out for a while, sadly. I used to look at Lebrons age and think the C's could win it all as he aged, now I look at the Nets and see the road block. One more reason to target 2022-23 as the year to plan for with next year being another growth year with the hopes that Nesmith becomes a stud and they can attract a star in the summer of 2022. Tatum and Brown will be in their primes and Tatum should be able to nullify KD by then between growth and age. The tide is also going to turn from the West being the best conference to the East being a beast! The C's should be right there though with the right moves and some luck. It is a little concerning to read about the dysfunction in the locker room, the Athletic today, as it seems like Smart is a problem with the J's which isn't surprising based on the rumors. Can Horford right that ship or is Smart a goner? I think he is a goner, maybe package him with TT for a good all around PG that would round out the roster, maybe they get lucky. I think they have enough assets to make that happen. Question is what kind of PG do they need if Tatum becomes a point forward? I would say someone with length and an all around good game, could it be Nesmith? They are signed for 1 year with the second year being player options. We can say they’ll definitely stay together but another year not winning who knows? As far as staying healthy, that’s not a guarantee. Kyrie hasn’t had a healthy year in a long enough period of time that it’s fair to ask if he can have one. Also, how long will they stay happy with one another? Who knows, KD just played 53 mins in a game that Kyrie sat out - could Kyrie have gutted it out and played a game 7? Is that on KDs mind? Things change quickly. They are on pace for a massive tax bill next year already. It's over 44 million before they even start resigning guys. I can't think of a worse thing than to just start maxing out everyone. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2021 13:58:00 GMT -5
Also not surprised it came out that players were very unimpressed with Stevens "college offense" - dude was overrated as a coach for a long time. The problem with Stevens is that he stopped evolving and trying to get better as a coach. He had a completely different roster the last few years, which was miles ahead in terms of talent, and he tried to force them to play the same way as those early teams with subpar talent. That’s what makes me skeptical of him in his new role, particularly when you combine it with the fact that he has no experience. But everyone loves making excuses for Stevens, so I’m sure no one will question him. I don't think he stopped evolving. I think it's more he's great with young teachable players and struggles when players aren't that. Call him the Nick Saban of Basketball or Rick Pitino. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 20, 2021 16:11:44 GMT -5
The problem with Stevens is that he stopped evolving and trying to get better as a coach. He had a completely different roster the last few years, which was miles ahead in terms of talent, and he tried to force them to play the same way as those early teams with subpar talent. That’s what makes me skeptical of him in his new role, particularly when you combine it with the fact that he has no experience. But everyone loves making excuses for Stevens, so I’m sure no one will question him. I don't think he stopped evolving. I think it's more he's great with young teachable players and struggles when players aren't that. Call him the Nick Saban of Basketball or Rick Pitino. So he never figured out how to coach really good talent? That sounds like a guy who stopped getting better as a coach. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 20, 2021 17:15:33 GMT -5
Dinwiddie becoming an UFA is interesting
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2021 21:23:43 GMT -5
I don't think he stopped evolving. I think it's more he's great with young teachable players and struggles when players aren't that. Call him the Nick Saban of Basketball or Rick Pitino. So he never figured out how to coach really good talent? That sounds like a guy who stopped getting better as a coach. If you buy the reports about Haywards comments, he tried to evolve, get better and it went horribly. I'm pushing back on the he didn't evolve and try to get better part. He certainly tried it just went bad. I won't argue against he didn't grow as a coach or that he didn't get better. It wasn't for lack of trying new things, those new things are what did him in per reports. It's funny though because Walker needed to told about his D. Same with Tatum and Brown, it would come and go. They feel Smart was favored, yet he just plays crazy hard on D every game. Kinda sounds like the perfect storm type crap with covid, injuries, team under performing and now the coach is finally trying to push the players. Which frankly I think Stevens needed to do, he just picked the wrong time and he lost the team. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 20, 2021 21:43:43 GMT -5
So he never figured out how to coach really good talent? That sounds like a guy who stopped getting better as a coach. If you buy the reports about Haywards comments, he tried to evolve, get better and it went horribly. I'm pushing back on the he didn't evolve and try to get better part. He certainly tried it just went bad. I won't argue against he didn't grow as a coach or that he didn't get better. It wasn't for lack of trying new things, those new things are what did him in per reports. It's funny though because Walker needed to told about his D. Same with Tatum and Brown, it would come and go. They feel Smart was favored, yet he just plays crazy hard on D every game. Kinda sounds like the perfect storm type crap with covid, injuries, team under performing and now the coach is finally trying to push the players. Which frankly I think Stevens needed to do, he just picked the wrong time and he lost the team. That would be fine if he was consistent. The problem is he would yank some young players after one offensive mistake, but he would never hold Marcus accountable for making the same (or worse) mistakes. Pretty I commented on this once or twice over the years. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 20, 2021 21:46:18 GMT -5
BUY LOW ON BEN SIMMONS!!
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jun 21, 2021 5:19:10 GMT -5
And this is hard to figure out considering the talent he had/has shown in the past. The Sixers just can't win and I'm happy to see it, Go Hawks!! I like Embiid "Jerry McGuire" style, for what he could be and what he almost is. I am grateful for Doc's time here, but kinda smile about his new rep as "Can't get it done in the playoffs" coach. The rest of them can pound sand. Related point: is it just impossible to be a good NBA coach over any period of time? In the midst of the Celtics search I have a hard time thinking of a coach on a currently good team I'd want; so few seem decent or better. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 21, 2021 5:46:53 GMT -5
OUCH!!
I can only imagine the dialogue on the Sixers chat rooms.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 21, 2021 6:02:58 GMT -5
It's not easy for me to keep my mouth shut on all this Brad Stevens bashing but I will for my own health. Deep breathes.....
I will just refer to his resume, what people around the league have said and the fact that the Sixers have now gone 20 years with out making it to the ECF.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2021 10:12:01 GMT -5
If you buy the reports about Haywards comments, he tried to evolve, get better and it went horribly. I'm pushing back on the he didn't evolve and try to get better part. He certainly tried it just went bad. I won't argue against he didn't grow as a coach or that he didn't get better. It wasn't for lack of trying new things, those new things are what did him in per reports. It's funny though because Walker needed to told about his D. Same with Tatum and Brown, it would come and go. They feel Smart was favored, yet he just plays crazy hard on D every game. Kinda sounds like the perfect storm type crap with covid, injuries, team under performing and now the coach is finally trying to push the players. Which frankly I think Stevens needed to do, he just picked the wrong time and he lost the team. That would be fine if he was consistent. The problem is he would yank some young players after one offensive mistake, but he would never hold Marcus accountable for making the same (or worse) mistakes. Pretty I commented on this once or twice over the years. I've certainly bitched about Steven's plenty over the years, yet he's consistently developed young talent. I would pick Steven's in two seconds for example if I was the Thunder with a million up coming picks. I would say that’s seems to be Steven's weakness. One of the best I've ever seen turning young players into legit NBA players. He's struggled taking developed talent and getting them to do what he wanted. He had no ability to control Irving for example. I can't believe you bring up Smart, when Irving literally derailed a team. Smart never derailed a team. Honest question did Steven's fail with Smart or is Smart just who he is? I really don't know the answer to that one. Given what I've seen around the NBA with coaching, I 100% hope our next coach can win the way Steven's did consistently. |
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Post by karl1 on Jun 21, 2021 10:28:12 GMT -5
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 21, 2021 12:42:26 GMT -5
It was apparent pretty early in the season Steven's lost the locker room but I also want some blowback on the players, all of them including Smart. KI was poison and in his wake he poisoned the impressionable talent as a parting gift. What's the old saying? "It takes two to tango." If the players are tuning out their coach, and don't trust the leadership (Ainge and Company) bad things happen. That's what happened here. Steven's could have been the best coach in the league and it wouldn't have mattered. There has been all too much leaked beef outside the locker room and you can't have that either.
The Celtics have their work cut out, they need to reshape the league wide impression of their organization on and off the floor. Ainge for all his accolades did a lot of damage image wise that will not be easily repaired. The players need to show up next year ready to play and accepting of their roles and duties and they need to police themselves and be able to take constructive criticism without having a hissy fit on Twitter or Instagram. If they can't do that, it doesn't matter who you put in that coaches seat, you might as well have a player/coach.
As for the 76ers, it brings me great joy to watch Embiid and company fail again in the spot light, just like it brought me the warm fuzzies watching Brooklyn go down, James Harden is destined to be the best player to never win a title and it's going to be must see tv next year if things go south on that team, not even including KD drama, KI and Harden alone can and will torch that team at some point and probably ruin someone's career.
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Post by dangermike on Jun 21, 2021 16:44:47 GMT -5
It was apparent pretty early in the season Steven's lost the locker room but I also want some blowback on the players, all of them including Smart. KI was poison and in his wake he poisoned the impressionable talent as a parting gift. What's the old saying? "It takes two to tango." If the players are tuning out their coach, and don't trust the leadership (Ainge and Company) bad things happen. That's what happened here. Steven's could have been the best coach in the league and it wouldn't have mattered. There has been all too much leaked beef outside the locker room and you can't have that either. The Celtics have their work cut out, they need to reshape the league wide impression of their organization on and off the floor. Ainge for all his accolades did a lot of damage image wise that will not be easily repaired. The players need to show up next year ready to play and accepting of their roles and duties and they need to police themselves and be able to take constructive criticism without having a hissy fit on Twitter or Instagram. If they can't do that, it doesn't matter who you put in that coaches seat, you might as well have a player/coach. As for the 76ers, it brings me great joy to watch Embiid and company fail again in the spot light, just like it brought me the warm fuzzies watching Brooklyn go down, James Harden is destined to be the best player to never win a title and it's going to be must see tv next year if things go south on that team, not even including KD drama, KI and Harden alone can and will torch that team at some point and probably ruin someone's career. is that apparent tho? is there a collection of articles im missing? we had a clunky roster full of young players and now everyone is an expert about what makes marcus smart and jaylen listen extra good...im lost here. edit - stevens is the president of basketball ops. how do you justify giving a guy that title if he "lost the locker room"? this covid season has led to journalists having a very small amount of contact with people in the organization and thusly i think it would be inappropriate for anyone to assume what the problem was until someone explicitly tells us that kemba or brad is actually a pos behind closed doors or something. until then, im gonna ASSUME we werent that good compared to other teams. and thats because we lost a lot. including in the playoffs. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 21, 2021 19:04:00 GMT -5
 This made me laugh…. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 21, 2021 20:05:24 GMT -5
Ben Simmons would be the perfect center for the Celtics. A switchable point center that you can surround with Tatum, Brown, Pritchard, Nesmith and Fournier. Have him work out of the post and in dribble handoffs.
Smart, TimeLord, Thompson, Romeo and a 1st. I might do it.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 21, 2021 20:19:44 GMT -5
I mean he’d also help re-establish a defensive culture....as far as fit goes he’s a pretty good fit imo
Idk though. That contract is huge and that performance was tough. Plus they probably don’t want to trade him to a rival
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 21, 2021 20:38:05 GMT -5
Plus they probably don’t want to trade him to a rival That's the one thing that gives me pause. Buying low on Simmons would be a huge move, he's an absolute BEAST on defense and an uptempo offense with him surrounded by shooting wings would be awesome, we even saw glimpses of that yesterday. Dude pushes the ball upcourt in a way that forces the defense to collapse. That was the only way Philly was able to generate any consistent offense, by letting him run. Combine that with Tatum and Brown and man that'd be FASTBREAK PARADISE. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 21, 2021 21:12:39 GMT -5
Simmons would fit perfectly on this roster, but there’s a near-zero chance that the Celtics and Sixers make a trade like that in-division - even if it makes sense for both sides.
Someone on here mentioned Lonzo Ball, and he’s a perfect option for this team for many of the same reasons Simmons is. He’s not quite as good of a player, but he’s on a much more reasonable contract and at least has the balls to shoot open jumpers. I don’t know if New Orleans is thinking of trading him, but that’s the ideal player for this team.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jun 22, 2021 3:55:12 GMT -5
The thing with Simmons is that he is a playmaking, defense-first center, not a point guard. He's one of the more unique players I can remember in recent memory. Personally I don't think he's on the Tier 1 center Jokic/Embiid/KAT offensive level so I don't think I clog the team's finances with a max slot at that position. The offense can run through Embiid/Jokic, but I just don't think you can do that with Simmons - he's too flawed of an offensive player.
Could he switch his shooting hand and turn into a superstar still? Maybe. But that's not really a chance I'm taking with the Jays.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 22, 2021 7:36:11 GMT -5
It was apparent pretty early in the season Steven's lost the locker room but I also want some blowback on the players, all of them including Smart. KI was poison and in his wake he poisoned the impressionable talent as a parting gift. What's the old saying? "It takes two to tango." If the players are tuning out their coach, and don't trust the leadership (Ainge and Company) bad things happen. That's what happened here. Steven's could have been the best coach in the league and it wouldn't have mattered. There has been all too much leaked beef outside the locker room and you can't have that either. The Celtics have their work cut out, they need to reshape the league wide impression of their organization on and off the floor. Ainge for all his accolades did a lot of damage image wise that will not be easily repaired. The players need to show up next year ready to play and accepting of their roles and duties and they need to police themselves and be able to take constructive criticism without having a hissy fit on Twitter or Instagram. If they can't do that, it doesn't matter who you put in that coaches seat, you might as well have a player/coach. As for the 76ers, it brings me great joy to watch Embid and company fail again in the spot light, just like it brought me the warm fuzzies watching Brooklyn go down, James Harden is destined to be the best player to never win a title and it's going to be must see tv next year if things go south on that team, not even including KD drama, KI and Harden alone can and will torch that team at some point and probably ruin someone's career. is that apparent tho? is there a collection of articles im missing? we had a clunky roster full of young players and now everyone is an expert about what makes marcus smart and jaylen listen extra good...im lost here. edit - stevens is the president of basketball ops. how do you justify giving a guy that title if he "lost the locker room"? this covid season has led to journalists having a very small amount of contact with people in the organization and thusly i think it would be inappropriate for anyone to assume what the problem was until someone explicitly tells us that kemba or brad is actually a pos behind closed doors or something. until then, im gonna ASSUME we werent that good compared to other teams. and thats because we lost a lot. including in the playoffs. Some seasons simply go off the rails. Whether it was injuries, covid and that led to frustration and it spiraled from there I don't know for sure but I'm pretty sure that is at least as good as any other explanation. Sometimes the easiest answer is the best. Regarding push back from players if that's the case then the whole league is going to be in trouble. Coaches not dealing well with stars is not a new thing in recent years where many stars seemed to have hand picked the coach go back to at least Lebron. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jun 22, 2021 8:30:47 GMT -5
Hammon, Billups and D'Antioni have/will have 2nd interviews with the Blazers.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 22, 2021 9:18:00 GMT -5
Hammon, Billups and D'Antioni have/will have 2nd interviews with the Blazers. Imagine if they hired D’antoni (gulp) |
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,864
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 22, 2021 11:28:22 GMT -5
It was apparent pretty early in the season Steven's lost the locker room but I also want some blowback on the players, all of them including Smart. KI was poison and in his wake he poisoned the impressionable talent as a parting gift. What's the old saying? "It takes two to tango." If the players are tuning out their coach, and don't trust the leadership (Ainge and Company) bad things happen. That's what happened here. Steven's could have been the best coach in the league and it wouldn't have mattered. There has been all too much leaked beef outside the locker room and you can't have that either. The Celtics have their work cut out, they need to reshape the league wide impression of their organization on and off the floor. Ainge for all his accolades did a lot of damage image wise that will not be easily repaired. The players need to show up next year ready to play and accepting of their roles and duties and they need to police themselves and be able to take constructive criticism without having a hissy fit on Twitter or Instagram. If they can't do that, it doesn't matter who you put in that coaches seat, you might as well have a player/coach. As for the 76ers, it brings me great joy to watch Embiid and company fail again in the spot light, just like it brought me the warm fuzzies watching Brooklyn go down, James Harden is destined to be the best player to never win a title and it's going to be must see tv next year if things go south on that team, not even including KD drama, KI and Harden alone can and will torch that team at some point and probably ruin someone's career. is that apparent tho? is there a collection of articles im missing? we had a clunky roster full of young players and now everyone is an expert about what makes marcus smart and jaylen listen extra good...im lost here. edit - stevens is the president of basketball ops. how do you justify giving a guy that title if he "lost the locker room"? this covid season has led to journalists having a very small amount of contact with people in the organization and thusly i think it would be inappropriate for anyone to assume what the problem was until someone explicitly tells us that kemba or brad is actually a pos behind closed doors or something. until then, im gonna ASSUME we werent that good compared to other teams. and thats because we lost a lot. including in the playoffs. It was to me, watching the games. I didn't need an article to be written to see the team was only half-playing in the first quarter most games, nor does one have to be detective to notice the lack of attention in time outs. Yeah, the roster was flawed, but this was the first team I've seen under Stevens that didn't play hard. I don't think anyone is being an expert. Most of what I've read is a rehash of what has come out after the end of the season. I don't have any clue how to get any of the guys to listen and play as a team, hopefully whoever they hire does. Because if they can't it won't matter who is in what office. The NBA is in this different time where essentially the players don't want to be coached once they make it, and hold teams hostage building super teams in places they want to be. I don't know how to change that, on one side, if I'm a player and I can play where I want to play, and someone will let me and pay me, I should be able to, but on the other end that craps on the locations/teams that draft a player hoping they'll be their franchise only to watch them jump ship as soon as possible. Any coach can loose a locker room, that doesn't mean they are suddenly bad, especially with the above always looming in the background. Hell, the best coach imo the last 20 years had locker room dysfunction not that long ago which lead to Kawhi playing in Toronto. Stevens has a good basketball mind, had the Celtics let him go completely he'd have landed somewhere immediately, and we'd be talking about what a mistake it was for years. He had one year where things went completely bad, and according to articles, it was because he was "trying to be more of a leader for his players per Haywards suggestions" and it totally backfired and lead to appearances of favoritism. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2021 11:44:05 GMT -5
You have a zero percent chance at Simmons. I always thought he was a PF/Small ball center. Yet he can't be that unless he can get over this recent meltdown. He's the reason they lost. He let his FT issues effect his play, he was turning down basically layups. Max player not even taking a shot during the 4th quarter. Sure he's a very good passer and defender, yet what made him elite was his ability to go to the basket. If he can no longer do that because he fears being fouled, he'll become Rondo. Sure he's had a nice career, helped teams, yet he looked like he could have been a HOF player before his FT issues and he never again was the guy who went toe to toe with prime Rose in the playoffs. That type of scoring just went away forever.
Let's not forget Simmons had major issues before, he wouldn't even try taking three pointers. Team down three 1 second on the clock and he won’t even take the shot, now you have this.
On a plus note I can't remember a player tanking his value so quickly. I always thought the Sixers needed to pick one, that pairing was never going to work. Now by the time they reach that point, Simmons tanks. I feel for the player, I've always liked Simmons. Yet this is a win for the Celtics. All those picks, options and players. Yet they have Harris as their second best player with a prime Embiid and they'll likely get 50 cents on the dollar for Simmons.
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