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Celtics 2021 Offseason
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2021 11:48:30 GMT -5
Kanter is a great value, when he’s on a league minimum contract. He’s not when he’s not. Case in point, even when he’s just on a tax payer MLE, you need to pay a team to take his contract off your books. When you can’t play a guy in the playoffs, paying him more than league minimum isn’t a good use of resources. He really can’t play against the good teams in the league (minus one or 2 exceptions) so your left with a guy who’s old school skill set can dominate some lessor opponents or do well in limited minutes during a regular season game that has limited game planning. So he’s a nice player to have on a minimum deal like they do. If everything breaks right health and schedule wise this season, you can use him in the right matchups to give Horford and/or Williams a night off. That's exactly what I'm arguing against. Dumping Kanter when it cost you Bane so you could pay Thompson, which meant you were hard cap was the stupidest thing every. Kanter helps teams more in the regular season than Thompson. He's a much better scorer and rebounder. In the regular season offense matters more, no team can play playoff D for a full season. Teams are stupid, only thinking of the playoffs, forgetting about seeding and home court advantage. Danny would still be GM if he kept Kanter and Bane, used his mid-level on a much better fit and signed a defensive backup big for the veteran minimum. He literally overreacted to one playoff series and created a team built to face the Heat. Yet not the Heat in the regular season, just the playoffs. Nevermind you can play Kanter in the playoffs if a team starts a traditional big, he's very good against the Embiids. Before we signed him a few years back he was huge for Portland defeating the Thunder and Nuggets in the playoffs, going against Adams and last years MVP. The list of teams he can help you against is much bigger than the list he can't. How many times did you say you couldn't play Kanter versus a certain team during the regular season when he was here? There's certain a few teams were he doesn't fit because they play small. Yet the big issues started in the playoffs, the Raptors game planned around him and then the Heat followed suit. Even then you need the personal to actually do that and a bunch of teams don't have that. I'd argue he’s worth more than the minimum to an Eastern Conference team just because of what he can do against Embiid. I'm a big believer in building teams that can play every type of Basketball any other team can throw at you. The way you're talking about team building is exactly what caused issues last year, just focusing everything on one style. You focus just on Kanters weaknesses, not what he can do to help you win regular season games. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 27, 2021 12:48:13 GMT -5
Markkanen to the Cavs, Nance to the Blazers, Derrick Jones and a protected 1st to the bulls
Blazers got the best player in the deal IMO
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 27, 2021 12:58:38 GMT -5
 Oh what could have been. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2021 13:32:25 GMT -5
The Blazer are a very well run team and Nance is huge for them. Now if they would ever just realize that CJ McCollum doesn't fit with Lillard. Finish it off, go trade McCollum for Ben Simmons. Now that would be a darn interesting team and Nance helps make that work.
The Gary Trent jr., Simmons, Little now to Brown and Watford.
I don't want to hear anything about the poor Cavs. First you draft back to back PG. Then you form an Allen and Mobley front court. Now you give almost 17 million per season to a guy who can't or shouldn't be starting given Allen and Mobley. That's the type of move contending teams make, not teams years away. I haven't even mentioned that contract extension they gave Love or the fact he's still on the team.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,861
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Post by cdj on Aug 27, 2021 17:50:49 GMT -5
I guess the plan is Markkanen-Allen to start the season?? Love maybe with reduced minutes? Keep the pressure off Mobley early in his career?
Very head scratching move by them. People sometimes say the Celtics don’t have a plan but that right there is the definition of a rudderless team. They’re all over the place
Edit: just saw they’re close to buying out Love
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 27, 2021 18:28:08 GMT -5
I guess the plan is Markkanen-Allen to start the season?? Love maybe with reduced minutes? Keep the pressure off Mobley early in his career? Very head scratching move by them. People sometimes say the Celtics don’t have a plan but that right there is the definition of a rudderless team. They’re all over the place Edit: just saw they’re close to buying out Love Allen and Mobley cannot play together much until one of them develops range. |
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Post by artfuldodger on Aug 27, 2021 18:29:29 GMT -5
Can the Celtics use the biannual exception and would the use of it lead to Celtics to be hard capped?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2021 21:03:22 GMT -5
I guess the plan is Markkanen-Allen to start the season?? Love maybe with reduced minutes? Keep the pressure off Mobley early in his career? Very head scratching move by them. People sometimes say the Celtics don’t have a plan but that right there is the definition of a rudderless team. They’re all over the place Edit: just saw they’re close to buying out Love Allen and Mobley cannot play together much until one of them develops range. I disagree about that, if you can't that means Mobley is a bust. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 27, 2021 21:03:40 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2021 8:51:16 GMT -5
Allen and Mobley cannot play together much until one of them develops range. I disagree about that, if you can't that means Mobley is a bust. I said much, until one of them develops an outside game. That’s just reality. You’re not playing 2 guys together half the game who aren’t threats on the perimeter. Once one of them (likely Mobley) develops that then it’s different. But right now, if you get 10 dual mins from those two, say 2 five minutes stretches, that leaves plenty of minutes for Laurie, Mobley and Allen. Hell even down the road when Mobley is ready to play 30 a night, you have 96 minutes to split between the 3 of them at the 4 and 5, that’s plenty of room for all 3. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2021 10:02:58 GMT -5
I disagree about that, if you can't that means Mobley is a bust. I said much, until one of them develops an outside game. That’s just reality. You’re not playing 2 guys together half the game who aren’t threats on the perimeter. Once one of them (likely Mobley) develops that then it’s different. But right now, if you get 10 dual mins from those two, say 2 five minutes stretches, that leaves plenty of minutes for Laurie, Mobley and Allen. Hell even down the road when Mobley is ready to play 30 a night, you have 96 minutes to split between the 3 of them at the 4 and 5, that’s plenty of room for all 3. That's what Mobley is RJP, a driving shooting big man. It's why you see Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh and KG comps. Mobley and Allen aren't close to the same players that you can't play together. Allen is a rim runner, not a low post scorer that needs three point shooters to space the floor for him. That's a rebuilding team, they should start and play Mobley as many minutes as they can. I guess we greatly differ how to build NBA teams. I'm trying to get assets and keep my cap space open so when my team turns a corner I can sign better players. Not committing almost 17 million a year to a backup player, that's what contenders do. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 28, 2021 12:16:26 GMT -5
I said much, until one of them develops an outside game. That’s just reality. You’re not playing 2 guys together half the game who aren’t threats on the perimeter. Once one of them (likely Mobley) develops that then it’s different. But right now, if you get 10 dual mins from those two, say 2 five minutes stretches, that leaves plenty of minutes for Laurie, Mobley and Allen. Hell even down the road when Mobley is ready to play 30 a night, you have 96 minutes to split between the 3 of them at the 4 and 5, that’s plenty of room for all 3. That's what Mobley is RJP, a driving shooting big man. It's why you see Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh and KG comps. Mobley and Allen aren't close to the same players that you can't play together. Allen is a rim runner, not a low post scorer that needs three point shooters to space the floor for him. That's a rebuilding team, they should start and play Mobley as many minutes as they can. I guess we greatly differ how to build NBA teams. I'm trying to get assets and keep my cap space open so when my team turns a corner I can sign better players. Not committing almost 17 million a year to a backup player, that's what contenders do. I don’t recall ever saying I would have added LM. That being said preserving “cap space, if you’re the Cavs doesn’t make much sense as you aren’t signing a star outright. But having valuable tradable contracts does end this could be a valuable contract. Also, Mobley shot 30% from 3 in college and under 70% from the line, he’s not currently a perimeter threat. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 28, 2021 13:33:50 GMT -5
That's what Mobley is RJP, a driving shooting big man. It's why you see Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh and KG comps. Mobley and Allen aren't close to the same players that you can't play together. Allen is a rim runner, not a low post scorer that needs three point shooters to space the floor for him. That's a rebuilding team, they should start and play Mobley as many minutes as they can. I guess we greatly differ how to build NBA teams. I'm trying to get assets and keep my cap space open so when my team turns a corner I can sign better players. Not committing almost 17 million a year to a backup player, that's what contenders do. I don’t recall ever saying I would have added LM. That being said preserving “cap space, if you’re the Cavs doesn’t make much sense as you aren’t signing a star outright. But having valuable tradable contracts does end this could be a valuable contract. Also, Mobley shot 30% from 3 in college and under 70% from the line, he’s not currently a perimeter threat. So you think perimeter threat only means 3 point shooting? You would say KG wasn't a perimeter threat? You say that about Anthony Davis? That's what Mobleys game is, he's got one of the nicest looking jumpers you'll ever see on a guy that's seven feet tall. I'm not trying to be mean here, yet your comments go against his tape and scouting reports. KG won a championship playing next to Perkins, Davis won one with Howard and McGee, neither was a good three point shooter, yet they were certainly perimeter threats. Mobley isn't a low post scoring center or a rim runner. I actually really like the Allen and Mobley pairing. Mobleys playmaking should get Allen more easy baskets It's not about right now, it's about 2-3 years down the line. Mobley is that rare talent that could attractive players. You broke down the minutes and sure there's enough if you never want to play small ball with a SF at PF. Nevermind if you think about contending and need to bring in another true defensive center. That's not LM and Mobley is years away from that if he every can do it. I will admit if LM can bust out and make that contract look like a bargain it could make sense. I've just lost faith in that. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,861
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Post by cdj on Aug 28, 2021 18:21:10 GMT -5
….do we bring back Rondo? Or is that nostalgia talking?
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 28, 2021 19:04:30 GMT -5
….do we bring back Rondo? Or is that nostalgia talking? Back to LAL |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 29, 2021 5:23:14 GMT -5
I don’t recall ever saying I would have added LM. That being said preserving “cap space, if you’re the Cavs doesn’t make much sense as you aren’t signing a star outright. But having valuable tradable contracts does end this could be a valuable contract. Also, Mobley shot 30% from 3 in college and under 70% from the line, he’s not currently a perimeter threat. So you think perimeter threat only means 3 point shooting? You would say KG wasn't a perimeter threat? You say that about Anthony Davis? That's what Mobleys game is, he's got one of the nicest looking jumpers you'll ever see on a guy that's seven feet tall. I'm not trying to be mean here, yet your comments go against his tape and scouting reports. KG won a championship playing next to Perkins, Davis won one with Howard and McGee, neither was a good three point shooter, yet they were certainly perimeter threats. Mobley isn't a low post scoring center or a rim runner. I actually really like the Allen and Mobley pairing. Mobleys playmaking should get Allen more easy baskets It's not about right now, it's about 2-3 years down the line. Mobley is that rare talent that could attractive players. You broke down the minutes and sure there's enough if you never want to play small ball with a SF at PF. Nevermind if you think about contending and need to bring in another true defensive center. That's not LM and Mobley is years away from that if he every can do it. I will admit if LM can bust out and make that contract look like a bargain it could make sense. I've just lost faith in that. A few things here (in no particular order of importance): 1. My initial comment was about this coming year. 2. KG was a different era of basketball and talk to me when Mobley is an assassin from 17-19 feet like KG was (he’s not yet as evidenced by his sub 70% ft shooting). 3. You can do a lot of things differently when you are AD, top 5 player in the league, playing with LeBron James. 4. Down the road, if Mobley develops as expected, they could work well together (as I’ve already stated). 5. I used 3 point AND FT percentage so no you don’t just have to be a 3 point threat, but it certainly helps and the FT percentage is a strong indicator that his 15-20 foot game still needs work. I don’t have his stats for what he did there in college. Not really sure what your arguing here, unless you think they play big minutes together this year and Markenan doesn’t fit with them. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 29, 2021 12:03:47 GMT -5
So you think perimeter threat only means 3 point shooting? You would say KG wasn't a perimeter threat? You say that about Anthony Davis? That's what Mobleys game is, he's got one of the nicest looking jumpers you'll ever see on a guy that's seven feet tall. I'm not trying to be mean here, yet your comments go against his tape and scouting reports. KG won a championship playing next to Perkins, Davis won one with Howard and McGee, neither was a good three point shooter, yet they were certainly perimeter threats. Mobley isn't a low post scoring center or a rim runner. I actually really like the Allen and Mobley pairing. Mobleys playmaking should get Allen more easy baskets It's not about right now, it's about 2-3 years down the line. Mobley is that rare talent that could attractive players. You broke down the minutes and sure there's enough if you never want to play small ball with a SF at PF. Nevermind if you think about contending and need to bring in another true defensive center. That's not LM and Mobley is years away from that if he every can do it. I will admit if LM can bust out and make that contract look like a bargain it could make sense. I've just lost faith in that. A few things here (in no particular order of importance): 1. My initial comment was about this coming year. 2. KG was a different era of basketball and talk to me when Mobley is an assassin from 17-19 feet like KG was (he’s not yet as evidenced by his sub 70% ft shooting). 3. You can do a lot of things differently when you are AD, top 5 player in the league, playing with LeBron James. 4. Down the road, if Mobley develops as expected, they could work well together (as I’ve already stated). 5. I used 3 point AND FT percentage so no you don’t just have to be a 3 point threat, but it certainly helps and the FT percentage is a strong indicator that his 15-20 foot game still needs work. I don’t have his stats for what he did there in college. Not really sure what your arguing here, unless you think they play big minutes together this year and Markenan doesn’t fit with them. I'm arguing against your they can't play together until Mobley develops perimeter skills. I'm also arguing against you using his FT percentage like it's crazy low. Mobley 69.4%, KG 70.5%, Anthony Davis 70.9%, Chris Bosh 70.1%, those are their age 19 seasons. It's foolish to look at his FT percentage and think it's a negative. Nevermind he has advanced perimeter skills for a big. I've seen him take it full court, I've seen him drive from the three point line repeatedly on tape. You again are coming off as a guy who hasn't watch his tape and is just ignoring all his scouting reports. Now you're digging in. It's fine if you just glanced at his stats and got the wrong impression of him. Yet right now you are arguing against his tape and every scouting report. He hit long jumpers all over his tape, has a crazy nice stroke and it's why people made those comparisons. Why do you think people made AD, KG and Chris Bosh comparisons? The reason he was rated as a top pick most years is because of his D and advanced perimeter skills. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 31, 2021 15:02:23 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 31, 2021 15:20:36 GMT -5
You guys made me sad so I don’t want to play here anymore |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 31, 2021 15:29:48 GMT -5
It's time for them both to move on, the player and team. Frankly the writing has been on the wall for years. Simmons and Embiid aren't a good pairing, never have been and never will be.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 31, 2021 15:55:53 GMT -5
Rich Paul wants Maxey out of there as well (per Jason Dumas). Could be a package deal.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 31, 2021 17:08:51 GMT -5
You guys made me sad so I don’t want to play here anymore I'd rather leave then shoot anything outside the paint  |
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 31, 2021 18:01:38 GMT -5
You guys made me sad so I don’t want to play here anymore I'd rather leave then shoot anything outside the paint I'd rather leave than shoot one time. That guy is such a ridiculous head case, I don't see anywhere else he could play than the Lakers or Nets. They need guys who never want to shoot. |
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Post by texs31 on Aug 31, 2021 18:06:58 GMT -5
Brendan Nunes (SAC Pod guy) came up with the following offers for Simmons (he's not being a homer as he suggests SAC can't outbid w/o including Haliburton or Picks/Mitchell)
San Antonio - Murray, McDermott and 2 Picks (would have to wait, I believe bc of McDermott)
Portland - McCollum + pick
Golden State - Wiggins, Moody, Kuminga (or Poole)
Minnesota - Russell, Bagley and Pick
Sacramento - Hield, Bagley, Mitchell and 2 Picks
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 31, 2021 18:08:17 GMT -5
To be fair, I probably like Simmons more than he deserves, but I would NOT mind getting in on that action. One of the best defenders I ever watched. Hire Perkins to tough him up and have him run pick and rolls with Tatum and Brown until any team is able to stop it.
I'm also a HUGE Lauri Legend fan, so nevermind me.
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