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Celtics 2021 Offseason
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854 
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Post by cdj on Jun 4, 2021 9:02:44 GMT -5
Steve Nash understands how to run an offense better than 99.99999% of people who have ever played in the NBA, I think hiring him was reasonable
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 4, 2021 9:03:18 GMT -5
Blazers come knocking with Lillard for a package headlined by Brown, what do you do? I would pass, he's to old and Tatum isn't fully ready. By the time Tatum is prime aged, Lillard is likely starting to decline. Maybe I'm crazy yet I'm firmly in the you need to add to Tatum and Brown camp, not break them up. |
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Post by dangermike on Jun 4, 2021 14:53:05 GMT -5
I can't believe Steven A Smith has a job. I can't wrap my head around white privilege and diversity issues given the makeup of the NBA. Slamming Steve Nash and Steven's moves. He's once again gone too far. Heck he's now calling out player like LeBron James. It's either best people for the jobs or it's something completely different. I'll stop there before I get myself in trouble. You could make the white privilege argument for Steve Nash, but certainly NOT for Stevens. Brad has proven beyond any doubt he understands the game like few others and it's not like he's going to jump in blind, he'll be part of Danny's team. There's a chance it won't work, but it's a good and even safe bet. Brad doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. the nba is over 80% black. nba coaches are over 75% white. im not saying certain coaches do or do not deserve their positions but theres some numbers for ya if you are having trouble getting the point. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 4, 2021 17:55:16 GMT -5
the nba is over 80% black. nba coaches are over 75% white. im not saying certain coaches do or do not deserve their positions but theres some numbers for ya if you are having trouble getting the point. What point? I alluded to white privilege being an actual thing in the NBA just like it is anywhere else, but I said that it doesn't apply to Stevens. He earned his position. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 4, 2021 18:11:41 GMT -5
You could make the white privilege argument for Steve Nash, but certainly NOT for Stevens. Brad has proven beyond any doubt he understands the game like few others and it's not like he's going to jump in blind, he'll be part of Danny's team. There's a chance it won't work, but it's a good and even safe bet. Brad doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. the nba is over 80% black. nba coaches are over 75% white. im not saying certain coaches do or do not deserve their positions but theres some numbers for ya if you are having trouble getting the point. I'm not arguing that it isn't an issue at all just a thought in regards to those percentages. What percentage of the black players have no interest like KG? I think the list of guys who might be qualified have no interest, like most of the guys who had a good career and made a lot of money might not want to deal with the grind. Flip side is I am sure plenty still would like the chance but don't get it. But the ones who were really successful would and have so I think desire is part of it. I know Isiah Thomas got a bunch of chances without succeeding as an exec right. Don't feel like doing the research but I wonder how many coaches in the NBA never played above college. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 0:01:08 GMT -5
You could make the white privilege argument for Steve Nash, but certainly NOT for Stevens. Brad has proven beyond any doubt he understands the game like few others and it's not like he's going to jump in blind, he'll be part of Danny's team. There's a chance it won't work, but it's a good and even safe bet. Brad doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. the nba is over 80% black. nba coaches are over 75% white. im not saying certain coaches do or do not deserve their positions but theres some numbers for ya if you are having trouble getting the point. The last numbers I saw was 74% of the players, 28% of the coaches and 39% of the front office people were currently black. This is in a Country were about 13% of the population is black. So what is the point? That's a diversity or white privilege issue? |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 5, 2021 1:11:16 GMT -5
The last numbers I saw was 74% of the players, 28% of the coaches and 39% of the front office people were currently black. This is in a Country were about 13% of the population is black. So what is the point? That's a diversity or white privilege issue? That you should hire Becky Hammon! |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 5, 2021 4:55:39 GMT -5
Steve Nash understands how to run an offense better than 99.99999% of people who have ever played in the NBA, I think hiring him was reasonable But the Nets don’t run any offense, KD, Harden and Kyrie just take turns going to work. |
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Post by dyoungteach on Jun 5, 2021 7:18:02 GMT -5
the nba is over 80% black. nba coaches are over 75% white. im not saying certain coaches do or do not deserve their positions but theres some numbers for ya if you are having trouble getting the point. What point? I alluded to white privilege being an actual thing in the NBA just like it is anywhere else, but I said that it doesn't apply to Stevens. He earned his position. It will be interesting to see how stevens does in his new position. I don’t think he earned it because he’s white. I think he earned it because he has history with the ownership, can negotiate well, and I suspect is a genuine good guy. He also won a bit while here, albeit never getting to the big series. I trust stevens will interview any and everyone. And I highly doubt he would play for an ownership group that either didn’t see color or did see color in any part of the recruiting process. One of the biggest questions I have is this: what coach can relate to the players the best? Sadly I believe ..... the league had become so much a players league run by players. And I suspect mr Tatum will show that more and more over the next few seasons. ( I’m saying I wish it was more of a team league .... less iso etc). Players are focused around the superstars and trying to prove they are one or could be one. How can the new coach relate to those people dictates how successful that coach can be |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 5, 2021 7:26:51 GMT -5
What point? I alluded to white privilege being an actual thing in the NBA just like it is anywhere else, but I said that it doesn't apply to Stevens. He earned his position. It will be interesting to see how stevens does in his new position. I don’t think he earned it because he’s white. I think he earned it because he has history with the ownership, can negotiate well, and I suspect is a genuine good guy. He also won a bit while here, albeit never getting to the big series. I trust stevens will interview any and everyone. And I highly doubt he would play for an ownership group that either didn’t see color or did see color in any part of the recruiting process. One of the biggest questions I have is this: what coach can relate to the players the best? Sadly I believe ..... the league had become so much a players league run by players. And I suspect mr Tatum will show that more and more over the next few seasons. ( I’m saying I wish it was more of a team league .... less iso etc). Players are focused around the superstars and trying to prove they are one or could be one. How can the new coach relate to those people dictates how successful that coach can be Don’t rule out the fact that they have to pay Stevens a ton of money over the next 6+ years so bringing him in saves the organization a boat load of cash. You bring in a new guy, then he wants his own GM and staff and probably his own coach. May keep Brad for another year but then after that it’s likely he moves on. With Brad, you just transfer his salary and the rest of the front office like Zarren as GM etc, stays the same. And if they don’t want to stay then you don’t have to pay them their contracts. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 9:22:04 GMT -5
Steve Nash understands how to run an offense better than 99.99999% of people who have ever played in the NBA, I think hiring him was reasonable But the Nets don’t run any offense, KD, Harden and Kyrie just take turns going to work. I don't think that's true at all. They just averaged 24 assists per game versus our 21 a game. Doing things like benching Jordan so you can have better ball movement is coaching and offensive designs. Just look at the 2008 Celtics, Rivers made it work, yet all the players numbers went way down. The Nets offensive is working and allowing all three scorers to maintain a crazy high level. Key being the reserves fit and know their roles, Harden is the huge and keeping Irving from being a PG. The only guy pounding the ball a ton is Harden who is averaging over 10 assists a game. If you're going to run an iso heavy offense that's how you do it. At the same time you don't want the Celtics doing that unless you get a guy like Harden who can run it. It's why I want a guy like Lonzo Ball. Heck look at the 2018 team with Rozier, he kept the ball moving unlike Irving. In today's NBA you'll have iso, you just need to make sure it's not 2019 playoffs with Irving. The guy who dominates the ball has to keep everyone involved. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 5, 2021 9:28:50 GMT -5
Something I haven't seen mentioned is that the Celtics reached out to Sam Presti about the Job and he said no. Guy born in Massachusetts, so this wasn't like Brad Steven's was the perfect choice. Yet Danny never had front office experience either and that worked out just fine. I see two things happening, Steven's is the next Danny or he's not good and yeah he moves onto another coaching job in a few years.
100% Steven's new contract extension played a role in this. Now I don't have an issue with that, as long as you take the savings to pay the luxury tax!
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Post by dyoungteach on Jun 5, 2021 16:31:59 GMT -5
Something I haven't seen mentioned is that the Celtics reached out to Sam Presti about the Job and he said no. Guy born in Massachusetts, so this wasn't like Brad Steven's was the perfect choice. Yet Danny never had front office experience either and that worked out just fine. I see two things happening, Steven's is the next Danny or he's not good and yeah he moves onto another coaching job in a few years. 100% Steven's new contract extension played a role in this. Now I don't have an issue with that, as long as you take the savings to pay the luxury tax! That means the Celtics owners are treating the Celtics as a business. ( Ie sunk costs or not). This year could be a huge year for Celtics and their future |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 6, 2021 14:24:13 GMT -5
But the Nets don’t run any offense, KD, Harden and Kyrie just take turns going to work. I don't think that's true at all. They just averaged 24 assists per game versus our 21 a game. Doing things like benching Jordan so you can have better ball movement is coaching and offensive designs. Just look at the 2008 Celtics, Rivers made it work, yet all the players numbers went way down. The Nets offensive is working and allowing all three scorers to maintain a crazy high level. Key being the reserves fit and know their roles, Harden is the huge and keeping Irving from being a PG. The only guy pounding the ball a ton is Harden who is averaging over 10 assists a game. If you're going to run an iso heavy offense that's how you do it. At the same time you don't want the Celtics doing that unless you get a guy like Harden who can run it. It's why I want a guy like Lonzo Ball. Heck look at the 2018 team with Rozier, he kept the ball moving unlike Irving. In today's NBA you'll have iso, you just need to make sure it's not 2019 playoffs with Irving. The guy who dominates the ball has to keep everyone involved. I watched that series, a lot of their assists come from their stars creating not from running an offense with set plays. Which is fine when you have 3 of the best play makers in the game. Assists don’t mean you run a great offense as a coach. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 6, 2021 15:16:48 GMT -5
I don't think that's true at all. They just averaged 24 assists per game versus our 21 a game. Doing things like benching Jordan so you can have better ball movement is coaching and offensive designs. Just look at the 2008 Celtics, Rivers made it work, yet all the players numbers went way down. The Nets offensive is working and allowing all three scorers to maintain a crazy high level. Key being the reserves fit and know their roles, Harden is the huge and keeping Irving from being a PG. The only guy pounding the ball a ton is Harden who is averaging over 10 assists a game. If you're going to run an iso heavy offense that's how you do it. At the same time you don't want the Celtics doing that unless you get a guy like Harden who can run it. It's why I want a guy like Lonzo Ball. Heck look at the 2018 team with Rozier, he kept the ball moving unlike Irving. In today's NBA you'll have iso, you just need to make sure it's not 2019 playoffs with Irving. The guy who dominates the ball has to keep everyone involved. I watched that series, a lot of their assists come from their stars creating not from running an offense with set plays. Which is fine when you have 3 of the best play makers in the game. Assists don’t mean you run a great offense as a coach. Well it's an iso offense, yet the majority of the assists came from the guy running it. It wasn't just let Irving, Durant or Harden do whatever they want. Harden ran the whole thing. The play were get the switch we want and get Durant iso or Irving. It's not a ball movement offense, yet it is an iso offensive where the ball moves, just in a different way. Much better than the Rockets style iso offense, which I hated and better than anything we did with Tatum and Brown running iso offense. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Jun 6, 2021 18:12:45 GMT -5
Harden most recent rockets offense:
Harden iso and Dribble for 16 seconds and either get to the line, chuck a 3, or hit Eric gordon to chuck a 3. Was so terrible to watch. That’s what happens when you have a star freestyle and don’t actually run an offense
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 7, 2021 11:58:43 GMT -5
So Steven's first big test is the draft, which according to the dates I'm seeing is before free agency. Combine starts in a few weeks, draft is July 29th, free agency starts August 2nd.
So does Steven's follow Danny's build through the draft or make a trade?
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 7, 2021 19:27:37 GMT -5
So Steven's first big test is the draft, which according to the dates I'm seeing is before free agency. Combine starts in a few weeks, draft is July 29th, free agency starts August 2nd. So does Steven's follow Danny's build through the draft or make a trade? Interesting question. Assuming one of Nesmith or Romeo take a step forward next season and that Pritchard establishes himself as a backup guard, playing time might get tight to take in more young guys that will need to be developed. At that point you risk having too many young guys who could only get really good when it's time to give them a new contract. Fournier will also be a big test. Retaining him probably pushes us to the tax line and he was absolutely atrocious for good chunks of his time here, with a huge part of that being due to injuries and COVID. But you can't just give him up without any replacement, this team BADLY needs some reliable scoring options. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 7, 2021 20:51:32 GMT -5
Nets are ABSOLUTELY devastating the Bucks right now. Be on the look out for Mike Budenholzer getting fired if this ridicule continues and he'd be so, SO perfect here. Amazing offensive system.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 7, 2021 22:49:07 GMT -5
Why is anybody offering Brown in any trade proposition as a solution to the Celtic woes? He, due to his; contract, efficiency and overall talent is who you build around every bit a much as Tatum. I'd give away the first-round pick in a package with Walker to see what I could lure into the group via free agency as the second or third piece. I'm willing to trade one of Nasmith or Langford and double down on the other but think it's too early to cash in on either of them as either is likely to blossom with more opportunity, perhaps next season or not at all. The core as far as I'm concerned is the Jays and TL. Any other chip has to be on the table especially picks with the abundance of young players on the roster.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jun 8, 2021 3:03:18 GMT -5
I agree it makes no sense to trade Brown because he's under the max so is a perfect third option for us to go get a 2nd star with the rest of our pieces.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 8, 2021 8:55:14 GMT -5
What the Nets are doing to the Bucks makes me feel a little better about our C's. Little solace but a positive just the same when you consider the trouncing minus Harden and the C's being shorthanded.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 8, 2021 13:59:23 GMT -5
Why is anybody offering Brown in any trade proposition as a solution to the Celtic woes? He, due to his; contract, efficiency and overall talent is who you build around every bit a much as Tatum. I'd give away the first-round pick in a package with Walker to see what I could lure into the group via free agency as the second or third piece. I'm willing to trade one of Nasmith or Langford and double down on the other but think it's too early to cash in on either of them as either is likely to blossom with more opportunity, perhaps next season or not at all. The core as far as I'm concerned is the Jays and TL. Any other chip has to be on the table especially picks with the abundance of young players on the roster. You could defend trading him if you’re worried about his injuries being a long term thing. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 8, 2021 14:07:03 GMT -5
I'm still interested in Marvin Bagley. A Williams/Bagley pairing highly intrigues me. Your defensive center and your scoring center.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 8, 2021 14:32:50 GMT -5
I'm still interested in Marvin Bagley. A Williams/Bagley pairing highly intrigues me. Your defensive center and your scoring center. I'm in but only if they feel they can improve Bagley's defense. Dude's well on his way to being out of the league. |
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