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Celtics 2021 Offseason
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 8, 2021 15:56:48 GMT -5
I'm still interested in Marvin Bagley. A Williams/Bagley pairing highly intrigues me. Your defensive center and your scoring center. I'm in but only if they feel they can improve Bagley's defense. Dude's well on his way to being out of the league. Yea let’s put Bagley and Parker together |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 8, 2021 17:36:04 GMT -5
Yea let’s put Bagley and Parker together I get you, but the only thing they have in common is atrocious defense, they ACHIEVE that by different means. Parker couldn't stay in front of me, while I think Bagley can improve to the point he's like a bit better than Kanter bad. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 8, 2021 19:38:11 GMT -5
Dont care how blah he was in Portlamd this year, I'm going to keep pushing for Harry Giles (without any good reasoning so dont bother asking).
Good day.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854 
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Post by cdj on Jun 8, 2021 19:59:17 GMT -5
Skal Labissiere til the day I die
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 9, 2021 0:25:09 GMT -5
So you have a 15 man roster, plus two two-way guys and you think the best bet is 17 defensive guys? I'd buy it if you could find 17 of those guys that were good on offense, you can't. Given the way the league is going, yeah I'd love Parker and Bagley on my bench. I want to be able to play different ways so that involves a mix. Bagley isn't Kanter given the way he moves. Yet people forget what Kanter did for us, he was a key reserve. His ability to score and rebound was big, we missed that this year. Go get a good defensive third center, yet also given me an offensive weapon. Two things really hurt us matchup wise this year, no offensive center and no defensive PG that could run the offense. You'd go Theis, Robert Williams, Thompson, Grant Williams and Tacko, at PG Walker, Pritchard, Teague and Waters. That's just too much of the same thing in different packages.
Go watch what Bagley can do, I'm convinced he just needs a better offense, team and coaching. He can do things few centers can on offense. The list of difference makers for centers on offense isn't that big.
I love the idea of Robert Williams and Marvin Bagley going at it in practice ever day. Yet that just me
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jun 9, 2021 5:11:42 GMT -5
Meh, personally I don't want anything to do with Bagley. His defensive IQ and frankly basketball IQ are very bad, and throughout high school and college he basically just used his superior athleticism to dunk on guys with very little dynamism to his game. Not to mention the constant foot injuries at his age are very concerning. If you can take a flier on him at a minimum sure, but is he going to be happy as the 3rd string center? Probably not. He will probably get a chance from a team like Detroit, Houston, or OKC who can throw minutes at him.
I would much rather try to get a guy like Nerlens Noel, who can be a defensive anchor, if he wants to return home to the Boston area after a nice stint with the Knicks. Do we have enough to sign him? Who knows.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 9, 2021 6:04:22 GMT -5
So you have a 15 man roster, plus two two-way guys and you think the best bet is 17 defensive guys? I'd buy it if you could find 17 of those guys that were good on offense, you can't. Given the way the league is going, yeah I'd love Parker and Bagley on my bench. I want to be able to play different ways so that involves a mix. Bagley isn't Kanter given the way he moves. Yet people forget what Kanter did for us, he was a key reserve. His ability to score and rebound was big, we missed that this year. Go get a good defensive third center, yet also given me an offensive weapon. Two things really hurt us matchup wise this year, no offensive center and no defensive PG that could run the offense. You'd go Theis, Robert Williams, Thompson, Grant Williams and Tacko, at PG Walker, Pritchard, Teague and Waters. That's just too much of the same thing in different packages. Go watch what Bagley can do, I'm convinced he just needs a better offense, team and coaching. He can do things few centers can on offense. The list of difference makers for centers on offense isn't that big. I love the idea of Robert Williams and Marvin Bagley going at it in practice ever day. Yet that just me The problem with Bagley and your scenario is timing. He’s due to make over 11.3m this year and his 5th year option (14.7m) needs to be decided on prior to this year. Unless you this his upside is better than what you say, then you aren’t picking up his option. Also, it screws with your Williams contract negotiations. “Hey Rob, I know we are paying your backup who’s also young, $11m this year but we really think you are only worth $10 per season so take this 4/40m extension.” If this were next offseason and Bagley is a free agent then, yes, let’s bring that guy in for Kanter money. I love it then. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 9, 2021 9:03:52 GMT -5
The vast majority of players in the NBA can play D if they put in the work and effort required. If they have the athletic ability to be in the NBA and be really good offensively then they have the ability to play D. Defense is an attitude, a focus and a desire to do it at a high level.
This is the same argument I used when the C's put together the big 3 and everyone was saying they couldn't play D and wouldn't succeed. They came together and challenged each other to play tough on both ends. So it comes down to coaching and team culture where it is expected to have defensive intensity. Knicks coach Thibodeau gets his teams to play D and Brads teams usually did also.
Sure some big guys have slow feet and in todays game that matters more than ever. Is that Parkers problem, yes I think so as he looks like he could lose a few pounds. If he doesn't figure that out then he will be out of the NBA. And in regards to what umass said, I wouldn't mind a few offensive guys like Parker and Bagley or Giles on the 2nd unit as they could dominate there. Then they need to know their minutes with the ones is going to be based on their defensive intensity, good luck with that but it could work but it has to be on the cheap like Parker right now. Parker is definitely a wild card for next year, does he come in to camp in great shape with a can do attitude? For short money it is worth it to see if he wants to save his career.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 9:09:28 GMT -5
Did people really say that about the Big 3? I mean, Garnett was one of the best D players in the league. That's a damn fine start to any defense.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 9, 2021 10:14:20 GMT -5
Did people really say that about the Big 3? I mean, Garnett was one of the best D players in the league. That's a damn fine start to any defense. Yes they did. It wasn't here but on another site I was on back then many questioned it. Pierce and Allen were not known for D at the time as they had always been the scorers their whole careers. Thats the thing about players and D. As has been discussed here often, young players get on the court by playing tough D, Brown and Tatum did it and now Romeo and Nesmith have done the same. Has the J's D slacked a bit since they became the scorers? I would say yes and the fact they are still maturing is part of that. They don't have the energy to excel on both ends all the time and now their focus on O is a higher priority right. How many great scorers are great on D also, not many but those guys are the superstars. When the J's mature to the point where they can balance that and know when to turn it up on D then they are at the top of the league if they get there. Just like Romeo and Nesmith now need to contribute more offensively to take pressure off the J's thus being a more balanced team. This team has some very good pieces in regards to wings that can play D and score, the questions are at point and 5 because of health. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 9, 2021 10:46:16 GMT -5
So you have a 15 man roster, plus two two-way guys and you think the best bet is 17 defensive guys? I'd buy it if you could find 17 of those guys that were good on offense, you can't. Given the way the league is going, yeah I'd love Parker and Bagley on my bench. I want to be able to play different ways so that involves a mix. Bagley isn't Kanter given the way he moves. Yet people forget what Kanter did for us, he was a key reserve. His ability to score and rebound was big, we missed that this year. Go get a good defensive third center, yet also given me an offensive weapon. Two things really hurt us matchup wise this year, no offensive center and no defensive PG that could run the offense. You'd go Theis, Robert Williams, Thompson, Grant Williams and Tacko, at PG Walker, Pritchard, Teague and Waters. That's just too much of the same thing in different packages. Go watch what Bagley can do, I'm convinced he just needs a better offense, team and coaching. He can do things few centers can on offense. The list of difference makers for centers on offense isn't that big. I love the idea of Robert Williams and Marvin Bagley going at it in practice ever day. Yet that just me The problem with Bagley and your scenario is timing. He’s due to make over 11.3m this year and his 5th year option (14.7m) needs to be decided on prior to this year. Unless you this his upside is better than what you say, then you aren’t picking up his option. Also, it screws with your Williams contract negotiations. “Hey Rob, I know we are paying your backup who’s also young, $11m this year but we really think you are only worth $10 per season so take this 4/40m extension.” If this were next offseason and Bagley is a free agent then, yes, let’s bring that guy in for Kanter money. I love it then. When did the 5th year become an option that has to be picked up a year early? Compared to a qualifying offer the way it went down with Sullinger? You know when we pulled the offer during free agency. If what you're saying is true okay that would change my opinion, I want a year before making that decision, yet per sportrac the 5th year is still a QO not an option I wouldn't assign starter or backup to either player. I want them battling and let the next coach decide. You can maximize both players effort at 24 minutes a night and it gives you depth if they miss games. If you trade Thompson for him, how is that much different? You think that extra 1 million makes a difference? I think both players have top 10 center upside. Let's not forget Bagley just turned 22. You can't get guys like Bagley for the tax paying mid-level. That's the whole point of the move, there isn't a free agent center like him that you can likely get. Cousins is like the one guy and he's spurned us twice now and after last year I don't expect he'll now want to come. If you have too many good young centers a year from now, that's a good problem to have in my book. I feel the same way about Bagley as I did Randle. Heck I heard a bunch of the same crap about Randle years ago. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 9, 2021 10:55:29 GMT -5
The problem with Noel is that he gives you nothing on offense, he's worse than Robert Williams. Nevermind I full expect the Knicks to give him a stupid contract, that's what they do. The whole point of a Robert Williams and Bagley pairing is to give you a different option. I want a team that can match-up and play with all the teams. I don't want to be the Bucks who can only play one way. I want the ability to have a defensive monster in Robert Williams and a very good scoring center in Bagley. Then get a good defensive third big. I'm still going to lean towards D on the roster, yet I want options.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 11:01:39 GMT -5
I don't mind someone who is redundant to R Williams but, for the reasons UMASS brings up, would rather have him as your 3rd C. Like, maybe draft Kai Jones or even Isaiah Jackson. If Rob misses time again, maybe you've developed that player enough to be useful.
I've always liked Bagley (but, admittedly, that's back from his pre-draft days and have little, other than stats, to go on).
Would love a backup big that gives you a legitimate option to play next to Rob in bigger lineups. I know we loathed the 2 Big lineup last year but felt like it was a) not the right guys and b) used too often.
EDIT - On the draft idea, i'm just saying i'd rather do that than get a vet that's redundant. That's not saying I want them to pick a big at 16. Could just as easily be talked into a potential PG at that spot (specifically, a combo guy who could grow into a starting PG role OR play next to Pritchard).
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 9, 2021 11:49:25 GMT -5
The problem with Bagley and your scenario is timing. He’s due to make over 11.3m this year and his 5th year option (14.7m) needs to be decided on prior to this year. Unless you this his upside is better than what you say, then you aren’t picking up his option. Also, it screws with your Williams contract negotiations. “Hey Rob, I know we are paying your backup who’s also young, $11m this year but we really think you are only worth $10 per season so take this 4/40m extension.” If this were next offseason and Bagley is a free agent then, yes, let’s bring that guy in for Kanter money. I love it then. When did the 5th year become an option that has to be picked up a year early? Compared to a qualifying offer the way it went down with Sullinger? You know when we pulled the offer during free agency. If what you're saying is true okay that would change my opinion, I want a year before making that decision, yet per sportrac the 5th year is still a QO not an option I wouldn't assign starter or backup to either player. I want them battling and let the next coach decide. You can maximize both players effort at 24 minutes a night and it gives you depth if they miss games. If you trade Thompson for him, how is that much different? You think that extra 1 million makes a difference? I think both players have top 10 center upside. Let's not forget Bagley just turned 22. You can't get guys like Bagley for the tax paying mid-level. That's the whole point of the move, there isn't a free agent center like him that you can likely get. Cousins is like the one guy and he's spurned us twice now and after last year I don't expect he'll now want to come. If you have too many good young centers a year from now, that's a good problem to have in my book. I feel the same way about Bagley as I did Randle. Heck I heard a bunch of the same crap about Randle years ago. This article was from prior to this past season talking about how you need exercise the option for the next season. So Sacramento exercised Bagley’s option for next year on by December 29th of last season. You can’t wait until after the year to exercise the option for the upcoming season. I think there’s a difference between a veteran player than a veteran player. I also question if Bagley would get a full midlevel deal but perhaps he would. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 12:04:11 GMT -5
The "5th year" is not an option but the decision to make a qualifying offer. 3rd and 4th year options do have a deadline in the prior offseason. QOs are made during the offseason in which the player can be an RFA.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 9, 2021 12:35:28 GMT -5
I haven't really gotten into the draft yet, I do think a trade could be the best move. Yet Ayo Dosunmu sure catches my eye after a quick glance.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 13:04:42 GMT -5
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 9, 2021 14:51:30 GMT -5
 I don't get athletes, I swear to God. They want the flexibility to just go wherever they want whenever they want WHILE AT THE SAME TIME getting pissed of a FO explores the option of trading them. You can't do both, freedom is absolute. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 15:12:12 GMT -5
Probably bc you are assuming they all think alike.
The narrative, at least, with Kemba is that he's a pretty loyal guy. He never asked out of Charlotte and only left at a time where they probably felt it was best for both to move on. He chose to be in Boston for the long haul and 1 year later, Danny's trying to move him.
Sure, if this were a KD, Kyrie, LeBron or any other player who keeps looking for better situations every chance they get, I'd understand. But Kemba? Seems like you're holding what others have said/done against him.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 9, 2021 15:41:49 GMT -5
Probably bc you are assuming they all think alike. What? No I'm not assuming that. He's a professional athlete, he's aware of the reality surrounding him. Unless you're assuming he's an idiot. I'm not saying he SHOULDN'T be upset, that's his choice and we obviously don't know the actual story here. But the part the irks me is a player being SURPRISED by this shit. It's just day to day league business. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 15:53:39 GMT -5
I don't get athletes, I swear to God. They want the flexibility to just go wherever they want whenever they want WHILE AT THE SAME TIME getting pissed of a FO explores the option of trading them. You can't do both, freedom is absolute. I'm sure you can see where my confusion stems from. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 9, 2021 16:05:43 GMT -5
You can ask for no trade clauses, hardly anyone does because the team will demand something in return and players don't want to give up money for that.
I feel for Thomas, going all out before his big contract to help us win. Trying to help us win cost him a lot. Kemba's issues are just his knee issues catching up to him. That wear and tear wasn't for the Celtics. He got max money and was only the player we signed for half a season. I get it, he can't control it, yet it also isn't the Celtics fault either. With Thomas you wonder if they put winning over his long-term health, that's not the case with Walker. He could decline his player option, that would make helping find the right team a lot easier. Yet he won't do that. I just don't get it, blame your body not the Celtics. Every team in the Celtics situation would act the same. Heck decline the player option and I'm sure the Celtics would buy you out for $10 million less. Then go sign where ever you want!
I have no issue with players acting in there own best interests. Yet when a team does it, omg the players sure do bitch.
I like Walker the person, yet he felt disrespected that the Hornets wouldn't offer him a super max contract. So he bounced to the Celtics.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 9, 2021 16:26:13 GMT -5
Rumors circulating that Tatum didn’t want to play for Brad anymore. If this is true, I hope the fact he’s in the front office isn’t a negative. Hopefully, it’s just a he doesn’t like his coaching versus he doesn’t like him.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 9, 2021 16:34:20 GMT -5
I'm sure you can see where my confusion stems from. By they I mean professional athletes. I mean the working class he belongs to. It's part of their trade. Just to stick to this topic, I was VERY ANNOYING after last season about not trading Kemba. I don't remember which posters got angry with me, but I'm sure umass got testy. I said he was a brand new FA acquisition and you shouldn't do it because fools hold a grudge. And I stand by it, it wouldn't have been right to do it. And Danny didn't do it. The end. Same stuff with TT this season. However, the idea that you can't even EXPLORE that option is ludicrous. I'm sure Danny talked about moving Jayson Tatum multiple times. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 9, 2021 16:41:15 GMT -5
Just to close the loop you said "get pissed" and then switched to "surprised" in your response. I tend to agree with the latter but responded to the former.
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