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Celtics 2021 Offseason
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 9, 2021 17:40:39 GMT -5
Just to close the loop you said "get pissed" and then switched to "surprised" in your response. I tend to agree with the latter but responded to the former. I get what you mean and yeah I worded my sentiments poorly. I mean this is just the nature of the league. I do agree that trading him out of nowhere would be dickish, but you never know when teams are willing to offer stupid stuff. Getting angsty your name was ventilated out there is kind of possessive, the outcome that the team DIDN'T trade him should count way more than what they could have done. No point getting upset over something that didn't happen, especially with roster turnover being what it is. The interesting thing is that Ainge might have earned his negative fame thanks to the IT trade, but he was very loyal to a lot of players. 90% of the fanbase would have traded Jaylen Brown at least 10 times since he got into the league. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jun 9, 2021 19:49:26 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 10, 2021 10:22:20 GMT -5
Bleacher report put together some wild trade package of like 3 firsts, 3 picks swaps, Langford, Nesmith, TimeLord, and Kemba for Lillard
Kemba is such a toxic asset at this point I think I do that deal and try to fill out the supporting cast. Maybe they’d be able to retain Fournier and roll out something like Lillard-Fournier-Brown-Tatum-Thompson/FA/trade
Team would shoot the lights out. Obvs gotta figure out center though
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2021 10:53:35 GMT -5
I don't see the Knicks, not with that coach who wasn't there when they chased Walker years ago. I would think they'd be more interested in a guy like Smart. Yet who knows it's the Knicks. I'm not a fan of using the 16th pick to save money and if you just dump Walker how do you improve the team? On paper KP would look like a steal, yet he just played in the same amount of games that Walker did. He's an extreme jump shooter, only 37% of his shots come within 10 feet of the basket. Bagley for example takes 71% of his shots within 10 feet, that's what I want to attack smaller lineups. It's certainly not horrible given you save money per year, yet take on another year. Maybe I'm crazy yet my first thought if this could actually happen is to flip him to another team. Then again how does Donic and Walker make sense? The Hordford idea makes sense if the cost is right. The Thunder have a ton of future picks, it makes Danny's stockpile look like nothing. So maybe a creative GM can find a solution that makes sense. Trade 16 and get back a future first, maybe the two high seconds they have this year, still a rather high price to pay. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 10, 2021 11:52:31 GMT -5
The Hordford idea makes sense if the cost is right. The Thunder have a ton of future picks, it makes Danny's stockpile look like nothing. So maybe a creative GM can find a solution that makes sense. Trade 16 and get back a future first, maybe the two high seconds they have this year, still a rather high price to pay. Do you want to downgrade the talent on the team? Why? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2021 12:59:53 GMT -5
The Hordford idea makes sense if the cost is right. The Thunder have a ton of future picks, it makes Danny's stockpile look like nothing. So maybe a creative GM can find a solution that makes sense. Trade 16 and get back a future first, maybe the two high seconds they have this year, still a rather high price to pay. Do you want to downgrade the talent on the team? Why? I'm on record saying the best course is maybe just waiting one more year to deal Walker. When his expiring deal would be easy to trade. Yet if that report is right, both sides want to move on, well I think we need to discuss what is the best bad deal out there. Horford makes some sense. A Horford and Robert Williams pairing makes sense. You free up 10 million, then can trade Thompson. So it's a way to reshuffle, add talent and keep the tax payments lower. Still gives you a big expiring deal to trade next year. I love Horford, good veteran leader and team guy who works crazy hard. All that being said yeah I hate trading the pick, yet that's what every team is likely going to ask for. Oh course I don't want to downgrade talent. Yet I don't want to blowup our long-term future either trading for a basically 31 year old Lillard and I have a bad feeling our owner wants to keep the luxury tax low. That makes things hard when you are basically at the tax line now. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 10, 2021 13:27:45 GMT -5
And, of course, today comes a refuting of what was reported in that Bleacher Report piece. Oh rumor season, how I missed you.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2021 13:45:07 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Jun 10, 2021 14:00:33 GMT -5
CelticsBlog, MassLive and NBCSportBoston have all posted their lists of ideas on a Walker trade. The ones that keep surfacing are just Kemba and a 1st(note in many cases, the lists differ in which pick it would be so I generalized) for:
- Al Horford from OKC
- Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard and Terance Mann from LAC or
- Gary Harris and Terrence Ross from ORL or
- Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe from NOP
All 3 had Dallas for KP as well but, for 1, BRobb (MassLive) said "not happening" and it DOES seem like the close salaries are the only thing that makes sense.
- Eric Gordon was a common target but CBlog included Wood coming back (huh??) but Robb had Augustin and Bradley joining him
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2021 14:44:59 GMT -5
Yeah that looks about right, it's trying to pick a trade by which one is the better of a bunch of awful trades.
Why would we send a first for Adams and Bledsoe? The contracts match almost perfectly, yet even this level of Walker still has him as the best player. Heck that's true for every trade. I feel the Pelicans would need to send us a first for that deal, at least the others offer savings or less years, that Pelican trade does neither.
Walker and Thompson for Ball and Adams. Throw in the 16th pick and a 2023 first, heck throw in a 2022 pick swap to make it look better lol. Wishful thinking I know!
What's Adams a slightly better Thompson? I've never understood the way rumors valued him, like he was some great player. Bledsoe is a good backup PG making 20 million. Neither Adams or Bledsoe fit with Smart or Robert Williams.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 10, 2021 16:15:34 GMT -5
Is Bledsoe still a good defensive PG?
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jun 10, 2021 21:08:36 GMT -5
There are NOT a lot of good coaches right now. I think I'd feel comfortable with Stotts, Billups, or Juwan Howard. Maybe Cassell. Maybe Penny. Gonna have to take a risk no matter what. But I think this team should hire like it is one piece away which makes me worry about someone like Hammon or any rehash beyond Stotts.
Sounds like Howard isn't in the market.
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Post by dangermike on Jun 10, 2021 21:16:20 GMT -5
CelticsBlog, MassLive and NBCSportBoston have all posted their lists of ideas on a Walker trade. The ones that keep surfacing are just Kemba and a 1st(note in many cases, the lists differ in which pick it would be so I generalized) for: - Al Horford from OKC - Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard and Terance Mann from LAC or - Gary Harris and Terrence Ross from ORL or - Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe from NOP All 3 had Dallas for KP as well but, for 1, BRobb (MassLive) said "not happening" and it DOES seem like the close salaries are the only thing that makes sense. - Eric Gordon was a common target but CBlog included Wood coming back (huh??) but Robb had Augustin and Bradley joining him sign me up for anything with multiple pieces coming back. i’d see if either the orlando or clippers deal had legs bc what if ross can be useful for appropriate money going forward or (and i know it’s unlikely) kennard can be a bench shooter for us going forward when his $$/yr goes down after this contract. i don’t wanna sell the farm for one guy bc our depth is a problem and that wouldn’t make it better |
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Post by cdj on Jun 11, 2021 9:14:04 GMT -5
There are NOT a lot of good coaches right now. I think I'd feel comfortable with Stotts, Billups, or Juwan Howard. Maybe Cassell. Maybe Penny. Gonna have to take a risk no matter what. But I think this team should hire like it is one piece away which makes me worry about someone like Hammon or any rehash beyond Stotts. Sounds like Howard isn't in the market. I honestly don’t see much of a risk difference between Hammon and Cassell/Billups. They’re all pretty highly regarded basketball minds with no head coaching experience. I do like all the names you listed though, wouldn’t object to any of them |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 11, 2021 11:23:52 GMT -5
Is Bledsoe still a good defensive PG? RPM rates him as good, Basketball Refrence rates him horribly, worst defensive rating on his team among top 11 players in minutes. I would say it's likely he's still good if he plays PG. I think the bad rating likely had to do with him playing SG, kinda like Pritchard. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 11, 2021 11:37:40 GMT -5
CelticsBlog, MassLive and NBCSportBoston have all posted their lists of ideas on a Walker trade. The ones that keep surfacing are just Kemba and a 1st(note in many cases, the lists differ in which pick it would be so I generalized) for: - Al Horford from OKC - Patrick Beverley, Luke Kennard and Terance Mann from LAC or - Gary Harris and Terrence Ross from ORL or - Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe from NOP All 3 had Dallas for KP as well but, for 1, BRobb (MassLive) said "not happening" and it DOES seem like the close salaries are the only thing that makes sense. - Eric Gordon was a common target but CBlog included Wood coming back (huh??) but Robb had Augustin and Bradley joining him sign me up for anything with multiple pieces coming back. i’d see if either the orlando or clippers deal had legs bc what if ross can be useful for appropriate money going forward or (and i know it’s unlikely) kennard can be a bench shooter for us going forward when his $$/yr goes down after this contract. i don’t wanna sell the farm for one guy bc our depth is a problem and that wouldn’t make it better Kennard could be a good bench scoring after his four year extension that hasn't even started is over? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 11, 2021 12:05:11 GMT -5
Who's the best coach at developing young talent, Who's creative in his approach, is a good defensive coach that isn't crazy extreme, is a players coach yet can also act like Doc Rivers at times. My top question is do you play Tatum at PF or SF, I eliminate anyone who says SF. Next up is your offense iso or team ball.
It's a fun game, yet can anyone answer this questions about any coach that doesn't have experience?
If you hire a first time coach, filling out his staff with the right mix is almost as important. Just look at Steve Nashs coaching group. First time coach needs a former coach with experience.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 11, 2021 16:58:10 GMT -5
Kemba wants to be traded. Good riddance. I’ll be happy if I never have to see him with a stupid grin on his face after missing a big shot.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jun 12, 2021 3:40:05 GMT -5
The more I watch him, the more I think we NEED to target Usman Garuba in the draft. A true 4 who defends incredibly, gets offensive rebounds, and has underrated "glue guy" passing skills. Think he would be a coup at 16 and fit as well.
Will be less raw than typical 19 year olds since he's getting real minutes at the top level of the Euroleague.
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Post by dangermike on Jun 12, 2021 7:44:38 GMT -5
sign me up for anything with multiple pieces coming back. i’d see if either the orlando or clippers deal had legs bc what if ross can be useful for appropriate money going forward or (and i know it’s unlikely) kennard can be a bench shooter for us going forward when his $$/yr goes down after this contract. i don’t wanna sell the farm for one guy bc our depth is a problem and that wouldn’t make it better Kennard could be a good bench scoring after his four year extension that hasn't even started is over? i’ll admit i didn’t look at the finer points of all their salaries- but the point remains. i’d like a deal where we get multiple pieces and the clippers isn’t that bad kn the way that both mann and bev’s contracts end much sooner …after next season |
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Post by gator39 on Jun 12, 2021 11:14:14 GMT -5
I like Josh Giddey, but it's sounding more like he won't be there at 16.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 12, 2021 11:40:50 GMT -5
Kennard could be a good bench scoring after his four year extension that hasn't even started is over? i’ll admit i didn’t look at the finer points of all their salaries- but the point remains. i’d like a deal where we get multiple pieces and the clippers isn’t that bad kn the way that both mann and bev’s contracts end much sooner …after next season If Kennard costs you Fournier have you really added any depth? I'd much rather give Fournier a contract like Kennard got than have Kennard. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 13, 2021 10:40:29 GMT -5
sports.yahoo.com/boston-kemba-walker-hard-trade-001235901.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplinkI really respect David Alridge, yet he can't even give an example. Without Schroder it's crazy hard. Kuzma is interesting, yet his up and down shooting is scary considering that's his value. I like Harrell yet he's been abused for two straight playoffs, he's almost in Kanter territory. I want no part of Caldwell Pope. So you would have to be talking about some multiple team trade. Such a tricky scenario for a brand new GM.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 13, 2021 12:40:42 GMT -5
sports.yahoo.com/boston-kemba-walker-hard-trade-001235901.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplinkI really respect David Alridge, yet he can't even give an example. Without Schroder it's crazy hard. Kuzma is interesting, yet his up and down shooting is scary considering that's his value. I like Harrell yet he's been abused for two straight playoffs, he's almost in Kanter territory. I want no part of Caldwell Pope. So you would have to be talking about some multiple team trade. Such a tricky scenario for a brand new GM. I assume you are talking about Stevens, I’m pretty sure Zarren has been promoted from assistant GM to GM and Stevens is the President of Basketball opps… I’ve heard it described as Stevens has marginally more decision making than Zarren. Which is a way of saying Stevens has final say but Zarren will be doing the heavy lifting as GM, which quite frankly he did all the leg work for Ainge anyways. Zarren is a salary cap genius. Stevens won’t have a lot to worry about there - not that Stevens doesn’t or won’t know how to navigate it - he’s extremely intelligent and now it’s his focus. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 13, 2021 12:44:11 GMT -5
www.google.com/amp/s/celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-zarren-bigger-role/amp/This echoes what Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer wrote earlier in the week, who said “it seems Boston’s maneuvering will finally clear the path for assistant general manager Mike Zarren to operate as the Celtics’ lead basketball mind.” “There’s a belief that Stevens will only nominally outrank Zarren in Boston’s decision-making tree, sources said, and it’s a role Zarren appears more than prepared for. Whenever teams have conducted negotiations or trade calls with the Celtics, sources said, it has typically been Zarren on the other line. Right around Memorial Day weekend in 2013, it was Zarren, for example, who phoned Brooklyn to resume negotiating the famous blockbuster trade that ultimately netted Tatum and Brown.”
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