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2021 Draft Signing Period
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Post by greenmonsterwhalers on Jul 18, 2021 0:12:45 GMT -5
Anyone know the story behind his first Bankruptcy? Lol, nice one |
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Post by Ryanod1 on Jul 18, 2021 6:19:11 GMT -5
Turns out google has a better answer, at least if we're to believe these advisors. I'd greatly appreciate a second opinion though. To my speculation above, it seems like there's a clause in the contracts that state that a bonus can be recouped and as a result it's not considered a true "signing bonus". As such, it gets apportioned to wages and taxed based on the states in which they play games. awmcap.com/blog/how-your-mlb-signing-bonus-is-taxedanderscpa.com/taxation-of-major-league-baseball-signing-bonuses/?tag=saeInterestingly, having players stay in Florida and structuring the money to be paid more up front would I think thus allow the player to only have to file Florida taxes and get the 0%. Good find. I kind of figured the player would pay where they live now. Mainly, I was under the assumption that there was a time period before gaining residency. Something like living there for 6 months or more. Clearly not the case |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 18, 2021 8:16:42 GMT -5
Turns out google has a better answer, at least if we're to believe these advisors. I'd greatly appreciate a second opinion though. To my speculation above, it seems like there's a clause in the contracts that state that a bonus can be recouped and as a result it's not considered a true "signing bonus". As such, it gets apportioned to wages and taxed based on the states in which they play games. awmcap.com/blog/how-your-mlb-signing-bonus-is-taxedanderscpa.com/taxation-of-major-league-baseball-signing-bonuses/?tag=saeInterestingly, having players stay in Florida and structuring the money to be paid more up front would I think thus allow the player to only have to file Florida taxes and get the 0%. State tax laws vary by state. For Florida factors that establish residency for tax purposes include Registering to vote Obtaining a driver's license Starting employment or trade or business Living in the State for 6 consecutive months Any player drafted in 2021 would not be able to meet the Florida residency requirements for 2021 if they did not live there prior to being drafted. You would then be considered a part year resident for which income may be apportioned based on respective states in which you reside in 2021. |
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Post by texs31 on Jul 18, 2021 11:12:52 GMT -5
Probably getting off topic here but are we sure all state tax rules apply the same way for professional atheletes? For example, if you work 1 day in NY, you are supposed to file there (or, at least, that was the case for my wife when she had to travel to NY for business). So does every MLB player have to that?
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 18, 2021 11:17:14 GMT -5
Probably getting off topic here but are we sure all state tax rules apply the same way for professional atheletes? For example, if you work 1 day in NY, you are supposed to file there (or, at least, that was the case for my wife when she had to travel to NY for business). So does every MLB player have to that? That's how it works |
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art
Veteran
Posts: 382 
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Post by art on Jul 18, 2021 12:26:19 GMT -5
State tax laws vary by state. For Florida factors that establish residency for tax purposes include Registering to vote Obtaining a driver's license Starting employment or trade or business Living in the State for 6 consecutive months Any player drafted in 2021 would not be able to meet the Florida residency requirements for 2021 if they did not live there prior to being drafted. You would then be considered a part year resident for which income may be apportioned based on respective states in which you reside in 2021. "There are no general rules for establishing residency in Florida. Residency is program specific. That is, it is attached to a specific purpose or need, such as taxes or in-state tuition."
That's from a Florida Dept. of State website.
Being that Florida has no state income tax on individuals (it does have a state income tax on corporations), it consequently has no statutory provisions dealing with residency for state income taxation of individuals.
I don't see any obstacles under Florida law to Mayer's claiming residency in Florida this year if he in fact moves to Florida. Whether California attempts to chase him for a tax on his bonus is a different question.
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Post by 1980bornsoxfan on Jul 18, 2021 13:13:01 GMT -5
Any update on Mayer? How long do these singing’s usually take to get done? Just curious if anyone has heard anything of importance or rumors. I see Davis signed with Pittsburgh on Sunday for signing bonus of $6.5 million, below the slot value of $8.4 million.
Per ESPN article,
“Still, he was eager to move on. So rather than mess around negotiating with the Pittsburgh Pirates, Davis practically sprinted to the bargaining table to get something done".
Mayer made the same comment about wanting to get signed and get rolling.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 18, 2021 13:22:47 GMT -5
The signing deadline is August 1 this year. He'll sign before then.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 18, 2021 13:33:21 GMT -5
I usually cotton onto a few random guys for one reason or another. My guys this year are Hickey, Miller, Webb, Guerrero, and Hood. Hope they sign the last two... I wonder if Chaim could recruit former players to go surprise these kids in person and convince them to sign.. How would Guerrero possibly turn Pedro down or Hood say no to Pedroia?
Any word on Hickey's likelihood of signing? He technically was only a freshman this past season. If they took a guy in the first 10 rounds, presume he's signing. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 18, 2021 13:56:12 GMT -5
Getting Davis for less than #4 slot is some nice maneuvering by the Pirates. You can maybe look at their end as trading Mayer and Tyler McDonough for Davis and Bubba Chandler
I hope someone close to Davis recommends he get in touch with Scott Boras for future negotiations.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 18, 2021 15:41:29 GMT -5
Yeah, he got less money and goes to a worse franchise, that doesn’t make any sense.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 18, 2021 19:21:28 GMT -5
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Post by Addam603 on Jul 18, 2021 19:44:27 GMT -5
$100.9k savings from Litwicki. $106.8 savings McElveny. Total of $207,700 savings so far to go towards our overslot guys.
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Post by mainesox on Jul 18, 2021 22:07:45 GMT -5
Yeah, he got less money and goes to a worse franchise, that doesn’t make any sense. Makes you wonder if the idea that Davis was for sure going to the Sox may have been off the mark. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 18, 2021 22:10:48 GMT -5
Yeah, he got less money and goes to a worse franchise, that doesn’t make any sense. Makes you wonder if the idea that Davis was for sure going to the Sox may have been off the mark. That was never an idea though. Reading the mocks that put him at 4, they pretty much uniformly said (iirc) the Red Sox want Leiter but if he's not there this seems like it makes sense. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 18, 2021 23:11:11 GMT -5
If Davis wasn't confident that the Red Sox would take him #4 for slot, then it's hard to pass that deal up. There were Red Sox underslot rumors the day of the draft, plus the Kumar Rocker gossip never stopped. Plausibly the Red Sox would have taken him #4, but their ideal scenario was to push him to #1 and guarantee Leiter or Mayer for themselves.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jul 19, 2021 0:04:41 GMT -5
There's also prestige in being the #1 draft pick, probably worth enough to take the 6.5M at number 1 vs. the 6.66M slot at number 4.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 19, 2021 0:22:32 GMT -5
If Davis wasn't confident that the Red Sox would take him #4 for slot, then it's hard to pass that deal up. There were Red Sox underslot rumors the day of the draft, plus the Kumar Rocker gossip never stopped. Plausibly the Red Sox would have taken him #4, but their ideal scenario was to push him to #1 and guarantee Leiter or Mayer for themselves.But they were picking #4; how would this guarantee they'd get one of those two guys? They'd have to be dead certain that Detroit wouldn't take either of them, which would be a weird thing to be certain about. In fact, I heard from multiple people here that Detroit definitely would take Mayer if given the chance, and that remained the assumption right until they were actually on the clock and picked Jobe.
I just think these notions that they were playing 11-dimensional chess to manipulate the teams picking above them don't make much sense, and aren't necessary when it's perfectly reasonable to assume they were just interested in all these guys - including the guy who ultimately went number one overall.
So why did Davis settle for so much underslot? Here I agree with you about Davis' calculation at leat - if PIT didn't take him, he would fall to at least number 4, and Boston would have reason to take him somewhat underslot for the same reasons Pittsburgh did. So maybe it was either 6.5 with Pittsburgh or 6.0 with Boston. and maybe with some possibility Boston wouldn't take him at all and he'd fall farther. Picks 5 and 7 ended up being underslot guys, Arizona at 6 maybe goes with Lawlar anyway, and by the 8th pick slot is down to $5 million, so - there's that Occam's Razor again! - $6.5 million was probably just the best he was gonna get from anybody.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 19, 2021 0:44:38 GMT -5
In the post draft comments Toboni sounded like he was certain that Detroit would take Jobe. I can imagine that contact with Jobe's agent could have given them that belief.
I think it's likely they were playing some kind of games here. There was an awful lot of smoke about the Leiter manipulation idea, plus multiple people were floating the goofy underslot plan on draft day. I will concede that it is probably a fool's errand to think we can figure out exactly what their actions and motivations were from the outside.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 19, 2021 8:04:10 GMT -5
1) Everything I've heard and read about the Leiter thing is that it was coming from the player's camp, not the team's. 2) I agree with those saying that you can't give credit to the Red Sox for Mayer falling. Once Pittsburgh went Davis, it was a matter of Texas wanted Leiter and Detroit wanted Jobe. So there ya go. (SHAMELESS PLUG: More on this from Jim Callis on the podcast this week.  ) |
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Post by incandenza on Jul 19, 2021 10:17:03 GMT -5
In the post draft comments Toboni sounded like he was certain that Detroit would take Jobe. I can imagine that contact with Jobe's agent could have given them that belief. I think it's likely they were playing some kind of games here. There was an awful lot of smoke about the Leiter manipulation idea, plus multiple people were floating the goofy underslot plan on draft day. I will concede that it is probably a fool's errand to think we can figure out exactly what their actions and motivations were from the outside. The "Leiter manipulation idea" was just that they liked Leiter. The whole thing of Leiter pricing himself down to the Red Sox (if true) is something Leiter himself would have been trying to do.
The "goofy underslot plan" (if true) just seems like the sort of contingency plan any team would make depending on who was available and what they were asking for signing bonus-wise. Baltimore in fact followed through on such a goofy plan at #5.
The thing is, the theory that their order of preference was Mayer>Leiter>Davis is sufficient to explain everything they did, as far as we know. Why over-complicate it?
(Though as a side note: what was Baltimore doing? Like KC, they took a guy underslot with their first pick - Cowser signed for $1.28 million under - and then... didn't draft any overslot guys later? Their next 7 picks were all college guys with an MLB ranking well below their draft number.) |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 19, 2021 10:52:50 GMT -5
The thing is, the theory that their order of preference was Mayer>Leiter>Davis is sufficient to explain everything they did, as far as we know. Why over-complicate it? I don't think I'm really over-complicating this. If you assume Davis was actually #3 on their board, then I think this is a parsimonious explanation of the known facts: Mayer calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox tell him sure they can go a little over slot for him. Leiter calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox tell him sure they can go a little over slot for him. Davis calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox say gee I dunno what we do if you were available, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Davis gets nervous and takes just under #4 slot from Pittsburgh, which is a result the Red Sox desired. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 19, 2021 11:02:13 GMT -5
The thing is, the theory that their order of preference was Mayer>Leiter>Davis is sufficient to explain everything they did, as far as we know. Why over-complicate it? I don't think I'm really over-complicating this. If you assume Davis was actually #3 on their board, then I think this is a parsimonious explanation of the known facts: Mayer calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox tell him sure they can go a little over slot for him. Leiter calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox tell him sure they can go a little over slot for him. Davis calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox say gee I dunno what we do if you were available, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Davis gets nervous and takes just under #4 slot from Pittsburgh, which is a result the Red Sox desired. You're over-thinking this because there's no reason for all of that to even be the case for Davis to take the deal he did. Assume he knows he's not going 2 or 3, right? All he needs to be thinking to take the Pittsburgh deal is that he's not certain to be picked at 4. He's choosing between the certainty of $6.5M at 1 versus a chance he gets slot at 4 of $6.66M. Further, look at how the board shook out. If he knows Baltimore is going underslot, if the Pirates might go, say, Lawlar, then Davis likely falls to Arizona at 6 and suddenly he's looking at $5.74M. $6.5M is completely reasonable for him there unless he wants to gamble on the Red Sox giving him overslot, which seems a longshot. |
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Post by incandenza on Jul 19, 2021 11:10:49 GMT -5
The thing is, the theory that their order of preference was Mayer>Leiter>Davis is sufficient to explain everything they did, as far as we know. Why over-complicate it? I don't think I'm really over-complicating this. If you assume Davis was actually #3 on their board, then I think this is a parsimonious explanation of the known facts: Mayer calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox tell him sure they can go a little over slot for him. Leiter calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox tell him sure they can go a little over slot for him. Davis calls the Sox before the draft and the Sox say gee I dunno what we do if you were available, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Davis gets nervous and takes just under #4 slot from Pittsburgh, which is a result the Red Sox desired. This may be what they did, but again, the parsimonious explanation of it is that their order of preference was Mayer/Leiter>Davis. That's all you need to explain the actions you describe; no need to posit some gambit to influence the picks above them.
Here's what I think is maybe going on: before the draft no one was talking about the Red Sox picking Mayer, so now it seems like we need to come up with an explanation for how it happened. But that certainty that Mayer wouldn't fall to #4 was never well-founded, given the well-established sense that there was a rather fluid top tier. Mayer was always in play; that's why the Red Sox reached out to him before the draft (not as some sneaky manipulation of the teams above them, as was posited here at the time). In the end they did get Mayer, which made them (and us!) very happy. The reason is that Pittsburgh preferred Davis at an under-slot price and Texas preferred Leiter and Detroit preferred Jobe. That's all there is to it.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 19, 2021 11:32:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the disagreement even is here.
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