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9/21-9/22 Red Sox vs. Mets Series Thread
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 23, 2021 9:06:34 GMT -5
Tomorrow may be a rainout. Feel like the 7 inning games would favor the Yankees.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Sept 23, 2021 9:11:17 GMT -5
We'll see. The start against the .237 hitting, but dangerous Yankees will be a litmus for me. Which start against the "dangerous Yankees" is that? Sale's next starts project to be on the road against BAL and WAS. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 23, 2021 9:16:22 GMT -5
Which start against the "dangerous Yankees" is that? Sale's next starts project to be on the road against BAL and WAS. Yup, my bad. I'm glad that Sale is missing the Yankees and either BAL or WAS should be a win. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 9:40:21 GMT -5
Makes you wonder if Barnes post season is on shaky grounds. He won’t be as bad as Kimberl was in 2018 playoffs lol I wouldn't be so sure. At least Kimbrel eventually got the final out with the Sox on top, even if it did require great defensive plays from Eduardo Nunez, Steve Pearce and Andrew Benintendi. Kimbrel did pitch well in the final game at Houston and in Game 1 and 2 of the World Series. I wouldn't trust Barnes to do that at all. He's in a really bad way right now. Wouldn't want him anywhere the 9th inning with a lead at this point. If the Sox come out of the Yankees series with a win, then one of the things they need to do is get Barnes 3 or 4 more outings, hopefully with the game well in hand, if they can afford to do so. They need to get him straightened out or "fixed" as Eric Van likes to say. I just don't know if they can fix him on time. If they could it would make a world of difference and make me feel better about the playoffs going forward if they get beyond the wild card game. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 23, 2021 9:44:56 GMT -5
To me the three obvious guys to cut from the pen are Barnes, Perez and Sawamura. All three hve been awful the entire second half.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 23, 2021 9:50:05 GMT -5
To me the three obvious guys to cut from the pen are Barnes, Perez and Sawamura. All three hve been awful the entire second half. Certainly agree on Perez and Sawamura...I don't know whether Sawamura is nibbling, trying to be perfect or just can't command well, but woof. Barnes I have hope for especially with Whitlock a question... |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Sept 23, 2021 9:51:12 GMT -5
Sawamura and Barnes would be a tough choice to make at this point. At their current version I think I’d lean Sawamura because I feel like his splitter can get some big ground balls (provided we can field them)
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 23, 2021 9:58:37 GMT -5
The mandatory three batter rule hurts us when guys like Sawamura don’t have control. Few times this year where he has walked 3 guys.
If Whitlock can’t comeback, yeah maybe give Barnes a shot.
Darwinzon would be the other guy worth considering cutting. Control issues there as well.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 9:59:21 GMT -5
To me the three obvious guys to cut from the pen are Barnes, Perez and Sawamura. All three hve been awful the entire second half. Certainly agree on Perez and Sawamura...I don't know whether Sawamura is nibbling, trying to be perfect or just can't command well, but woof. Barnes I have hope for especially with Whitlock a question... Yeah, I never would have thought....they must keep Richards, Robles, or even Davis over Sawamura but that's where I'm at. His FIP stuff is bad, too many walks, too many HRs allowed. Even though his surface numbers look nice. At this moment I'd actually anticipate a 13 man pitching staff and a 4 man bench for the post-season. At the moment I'm guessing: A rotation of Eovaldi, Sale, E-Rod, and Pivetta A bullpen of Ottavino, Whitlock (I hope), Houck, Taylor, Hernandez, Richards, Robles, Davis, and Barnes(  ) Catchers/IF: Vazquez, Plawecki, Dalbec, Arroyo, Bogaerts, Devers, Arauz (wish Iglesias qualified) DH/OF: Martinez, Schwarber, Verdugo, Hernandez, Renfroe, Duran (if healthy) I'm guessing Barnes makes it if he shows the slightest bit of hope. Otherwise Brasier might get that call or even Sawamura. If Whitlock can't go, I'd guess it's Brasier in his spot. At this point I think Arauz is the only real infield backup that's eligible and keeps Kiké in the outfield? I'd think at least if he's healthy Duran can run like the wind and help them there? |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 10:05:31 GMT -5
Tomorrow may be a rainout. Feel like the 7 inning games would favor the Yankees. Not necessarily. I know Cortes is having a nice year and Cole has been roughed up in 2 Fenway starts and stunk last time out...still Cole is the better pitcher of the 2. Eovaldi is better than Pivetta, so if there's a double header on Saturday because of a rainout on Friday, I think the Sox should pit Pivetta versus Cole and use Eovaldi vs Cortes. The goal should be to earn a split of that double hearder. And I think Eovaldi vs Cortes stacks the deck in the Sox favor for that game. The other advantage is that cutting out all of those middle men means that five or six innings from a starter means that Tanner Houck can close. Hell, he could pitch both games of the double header. The Sox just need to win 1 of those 3 games against the Yankees in the series and they're in great shape. |
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Sept 23, 2021 10:17:10 GMT -5
He won’t be as bad as Kimberl was in 2018 playoffs lol I wouldn't be so sure. At least Kimbrel eventually got the final out with the Sox on top, even if it did require great defensive plays from Eduardo Nunez, Steve Pearce and Andrew Benintendi. Kimbrel did pitch well in the final game at Houston and in Game 1 and 2 of the World Series. I wouldn't trust Barnes to do that at all. He's in a really bad way right now. Wouldn't want him anywhere the 9th inning with a lead at this point. If the Sox come out of the Yankees series with a win, then one of the things they need to do is get Barnes 3 or 4 more outings, hopefully with the game well in hand, if they can afford to do so. They need to get him straightened out or "fixed" as Eric Van likes to say. I just don't know if they can fix him on time. If they could it would make a world of difference and make me feel better about the playoffs going forward if they get beyond the wild card game. I was thinking along the same lines. If the Sox were to beat Cole in the 1st game, does Cora bite the bullet and use Barnes in high leverage situations in the remaining 2 games in the series? I don't think it tells us much if Barnes only appearances are against BAL and WAS lineups the rest of the way. Never being a pitcher, I don't know how a pitcher like Barnes gets "fixed". It seems it's not just a matter of keep throwing him out there and maybe something will click, right? Richards was able to get fixed - or make adjustments over the all-star break. But it seemed for him he had to work on improving other pitches (swim or sink - and I don't think he has gotten enough credit for turning his season around). Does Barnes have the capacity to do this? Seems like most of his curves are breaking out of the strike zone, and the batters just know this and let them pass, and sit on the FB. Maybe it's just a matter of fixing mechanics, or are Barnes' issues partially related to reduced spin? Tough call and as you say not a lot of time to left to figure it out. |
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Sept 23, 2021 10:22:43 GMT -5
Tomorrow may be a rainout. Feel like the 7 inning games would favor the Yankees. Not necessarily. I know Cortes is having a nice year and Cole has been roughed up in 2 Fenway starts and stunk last time out...still Cole is the better pitcher of the 2. Eovaldi is better than Pivetta, so if there's a double header on Saturday because of a rainout on Friday, I think the Sox should pit Pivetta versus Cole and use Eovaldi vs Cortes.
The goal should be to earn a split of that double hearder. And I think Eovaldi vs Cortes stacks the deck in the Sox favor for that game. The other advantage is that cutting out all of those middle men means that five or six innings from a starter means that Tanner Houck can close. Hell, he could pitch both games of the double header. The Sox just need to win 1 of those 3 games against the Yankees in the series and they're in great shape. When does one need to "declare" a starting pitcher? Can they make a last minute switch to mess with the Yankees? Would the Yankees get a chance to counter by updating their lineup? Why isn't there some awesome gamesmanship going here? I remember a few years ago there was a team (I wanna say Milwaukee) that used an opener for one batter then switched to an opposite-handed starter after the opponent had loaded the lineup with the now-wrong handed batters. Baseball should be more like WWE wrestling. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 10:24:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so sure. At least Kimbrel eventually got the final out with the Sox on top, even if it did require great defensive plays from Eduardo Nunez, Steve Pearce and Andrew Benintendi. Kimbrel did pitch well in the final game at Houston and in Game 1 and 2 of the World Series. I wouldn't trust Barnes to do that at all. He's in a really bad way right now. Wouldn't want him anywhere the 9th inning with a lead at this point. If the Sox come out of the Yankees series with a win, then one of the things they need to do is get Barnes 3 or 4 more outings, hopefully with the game well in hand, if they can afford to do so. They need to get him straightened out or "fixed" as Eric Van likes to say. I just don't know if they can fix him on time. If they could it would make a world of difference and make me feel better about the playoffs going forward if they get beyond the wild card game. I was thinking along the same lines. If the Sox were to beat Cole in the 1st game, does Cora bite the bullet and use Barnes in high leverage situations in the remaining 2 games in the series? I don't think it tells us much if Barnes only appearances are against BAL and WAS lineups the rest of the way. Never being a pitcher, I don't know how a pitcher like Barnes gets "fixed". It seems it's not just a matter of keep throwing him out there and maybe something will click, right? Richards was able to get fixed - or make adjustments over the all-star break. But it seemed for him he had to work on improving other pitches (swim or sink - and I don't think he has gotten enough credit for turning his season around). Does Barnes have the capacity to do this? Seems like most of his curves are breaking out of the strike zone, and the batters just know this and let them pass, and sit on the FB. Maybe it's just a matter of fixing mechanics, or are Barnes' issues partially related to reduced spin? Tough call and as you say not a lot of time to left to figure it out. I don't think it necessarily needs to be in high leverage with Barnes. I don't think the issue is that he melts because of the 9th inning. I think it's about seeing how his stuff plays. And that can occur in the 6th inning down 5 or up 8 like last night. If his stuff starts playing, even in mop up rolls, even against bad offenses, I'd feel better about Barnes going into the post-season. It's like you say, he can't land his curveball consistently and his fastball is getting teed off on. He had that tight curveball. He hasn't had that consistently. I would have thought Brasier had no chance but in the Mets series his fastball was impressive, so if Barnes doesn't get a spot Brasier just might grab it. Hard to imagine an all-star closer is on the bubble for a roster spot. He was pitching better than he ever has. It's a shame he can't put together a consistent season from start to finish. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 23, 2021 10:27:43 GMT -5
Not necessarily. I know Cortes is having a nice year and Cole has been roughed up in 2 Fenway starts and stunk last time out...still Cole is the better pitcher of the 2. Eovaldi is better than Pivetta, so if there's a double header on Saturday because of a rainout on Friday, I think the Sox should pit Pivetta versus Cole and use Eovaldi vs Cortes.
The goal should be to earn a split of that double hearder. And I think Eovaldi vs Cortes stacks the deck in the Sox favor for that game. The other advantage is that cutting out all of those middle men means that five or six innings from a starter means that Tanner Houck can close. Hell, he could pitch both games of the double header. The Sox just need to win 1 of those 3 games against the Yankees in the series and they're in great shape. When does one need to "declare" a starting pitcher? Can they make a last minute switch to mess with the Yankees? Would the Yankees get a chance to counter by updating their lineup? Why isn't there some awesome gamesmanship going here? I remember a few years ago there was a team (I wanna say Milwaukee) that used an opener for one batter then switched to an opposite-handed starter after the opponent had loaded the lineup with the now-wrong handed batters. Baseball should be more like WWE wrestling. I'd guess the Yankees would have the advantage in this situation simply because somebody has to pitch for the Red Sox first in the top of the first so the jig would be up and the Yankees would know who's starting if they were also going to engage in such gamesmanship. Don't suspect that will happen here, but I'd guess that's how it would get settled. |
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 23, 2021 11:52:22 GMT -5
If there’s a rainout. Should play Monday
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Post by benzinger on Sept 23, 2021 12:07:23 GMT -5
I was thinking along the same lines. If the Sox were to beat Cole in the 1st game, does Cora bite the bullet and use Barnes in high leverage situations in the remaining 2 games in the series? I don't think it tells us much if Barnes only appearances are against BAL and WAS lineups the rest of the way. Never being a pitcher, I don't know how a pitcher like Barnes gets "fixed". It seems it's not just a matter of keep throwing him out there and maybe something will click, right? Richards was able to get fixed - or make adjustments over the all-star break. But it seemed for him he had to work on improving other pitches (swim or sink - and I don't think he has gotten enough credit for turning his season around). Does Barnes have the capacity to do this? Seems like most of his curves are breaking out of the strike zone, and the batters just know this and let them pass, and sit on the FB. Maybe it's just a matter of fixing mechanics, or are Barnes' issues partially related to reduced spin? Tough call and as you say not a lot of time to left to figure it out. I don't think it necessarily needs to be in high leverage with Barnes. I don't think the issue is that he melts because of the 9th inning. I think it's about seeing how his stuff plays. And that can occur in the 6th inning down 5 or up 8 like last night. If his stuff starts playing, even in mop up rolls, even against bad offenses, I'd feel better about Barnes going into the post-season. It's like you say, he can't land his curveball consistently and his fastball is getting teed off on. He had that tight curveball. He hasn't had that consistently. I would have thought Brasier had no chance but in the Mets series his fastball was impressive, so if Barnes doesn't get a spot Brasier just might grab it. Hard to imagine an all-star closer is on the bubble for a roster spot. He was pitching better than he ever has. It's a shame he can't put together a consistent season from start to finish. Barnes signed that “team friendly” deal and seemingly forgot how to pitch right away. Very bizarre. |
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Post by benzinger on Sept 23, 2021 12:09:43 GMT -5
If there’s a rainout. Should play Monday Hopefully they can at least play a few innings...then have a long delay that gets Cole out of there...and then finish the game. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 23, 2021 16:17:52 GMT -5
I think the rain will be light tomorrow. We need to make the Yanks pen earn their stripes. Or not earn their stripes ideally : )
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