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2022 Non-Red Sox Thread
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Post by orion09 on May 23, 2022 16:13:46 GMT -5
IMO, if you’re a ~4 WAR player who’s got the ego and balls to compare yourself to a HoF, you’ve made yourself fair game for associated ribbing
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 16:50:18 GMT -5
IMO, if you’re a ~4 WAR player who’s got the ego and balls to compare yourself to a HoF, you’ve made yourself fair game for associated ribbing He wasn’t saying that about his own talent level and it’s pretty easy to understand that if you actually read what he said and you don’t go into this with a preconceived agenda. He’s not saying he’s as good of a player as Jackie was- and to be fair he’s a damn good player in his own right- he’s saying that as a standout black player in a league that’s like 5% black with zero black owners or GM’s he feels the need to make an impact to change that. And you know what? That’s entirely, 100% reasonable. The article was about the isolation a black man feels in a sport played by predominantly white men and run almost entirely by white men (and how it needs to be more fun, which will help with that issue). Doesn’t take too much to put ones self in another’s shoes and I feel like people lose sight of that from time to time.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 23, 2022 17:17:52 GMT -5
IMO, if you’re a ~4 WAR player who’s got the ego and balls to compare yourself to a HoF, you’ve made yourself fair game for associated ribbing He wasn’t saying that about his own talent level and it’s pretty easy to understand that if you actually read what he said and you don’t go into this with a preconceived agenda. He’s not saying he’s as good of a player as Jackie was- and to be fair he’s a damn good player in his own right- he’s saying that as a standout black player in a league that’s like 5% black with zero black owners or GM’s he feels the need to make an impact to change that. And you know what? That’s entirely, 100% reasonable. The article was about the isolation a black man feels in a sport played by predominantly white men and run almost entirely by white men. Doesn’t take too much to put ones self in another’s shoes and I feel like people lose sight of that from time to time. On the other hand, forgetting the baseball part, he's comped himself to Jackie Freaking Robinson. I have black friends, I must be just like MLK. Shakespeare had an entire play about this episode.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 17:27:46 GMT -5
He wasn’t saying that about his own talent level and it’s pretty easy to understand that if you actually read what he said and you don’t go into this with a preconceived agenda. He’s not saying he’s as good of a player as Jackie was- and to be fair he’s a damn good player in his own right- he’s saying that as a standout black player in a league that’s like 5% black with zero black owners or GM’s he feels the need to make an impact to change that. And you know what? That’s entirely, 100% reasonable. The article was about the isolation a black man feels in a sport played by predominantly white men and run almost entirely by white men. Doesn’t take too much to put ones self in another’s shoes and I feel like people lose sight of that from time to time. On the other hand, forgetting the baseball part, he's comped himself to Jackie Freaking Robinson. I have black friends, I must be just like MLK. Shakespeare had an entire play about this episode. I just don’t understand how somebody can find fault with what he said unless they’re being deliberately obtuse. Have you read the article he was quoted in? I highly doubt it because if you did and still made this post there’s something wrong with you, and I don’t think there’s something wrong with you The sport- with already limited black representation- is seeing black representation dwindle further and all he’s saying is that he feels it’s his job to be the modern Jackie Robinson and reinvigorate passion for the game in the black community. If you want to make it deeper than that then have at it, but all you’re really doing is taking jabs at somebody trying to improve the game we love. Josh Donaldson calling him Jackie clearly isn’t something that’s cool with him or his teammates, and it shouldn’t be! The league seems to agree seeing as how he was just suspended if you guys want to believe that Josh Donaldson is besties with him and all of a sudden Tim Anderson had a change of heart to demonize him then by all means. Rational people and myself think that’s a little ridiculous but more power to you. It’s just a little sad that when this story broke I knew the exact posters who would be playing devils advocate in here lol
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 23, 2022 17:36:57 GMT -5
On the other hand, forgetting the baseball part, he's comped himself to Jackie Freaking Robinson. I have black friends, I must be just like MLK. Shakespeare had an entire play about this episode. I just don’t understand how somebody can find fault with what he said unless they’re being deliberately obtuse. Have you read the article he was quoted in? I highly doubt it because if you did and still made this post there’s something wrong with you, and I don’t think there’s something wrong with you I haven't read the article but I've read multiple tweets about what the article was about. He was referring to his role as a ground breaking "character" in a game where he perceived blacks were expected to behave in a certain way. Sorry, that's just not Robinsonesque. There's nothing wrong with me but there's seriously something wrong with people who imply there's something wrong with people they don't agree with.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 17:40:57 GMT -5
I just don’t understand how somebody can find fault with what he said unless they’re being deliberately obtuse. Have you read the article he was quoted in? I highly doubt it because if you did and still made this post there’s something wrong with you, and I don’t think there’s something wrong with you I haven't read the article but I've read multiple tweets about what the article was about. He was referring to his role as a ground breaking "character" in a game where he perceived blacks were expected to behave in a certain way. Sorry, that's just not Robinsonesque. There's nothing wrong with me but there's seriously something wrong with people who imply there's something wrong with people they don't agree with. Well when those people are playing devils advocate for a guy suspended for racist remarks then they can probably expect to hear something about it Ask yourself this- do you think Jackie Robinson would have a problem with that quote? And if not then who are you sticking up for? I sure as hell don’t think he’d have a problem with it. I think he’d completely and unequivocally support it Donaldsons own manager said he shouldn’t have gone there for crying out loud lol
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 23, 2022 17:47:56 GMT -5
I said nothing about Donaldson.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 17:48:38 GMT -5
I said nothing about Donaldson. No you’re only parroting the lines used to defend him making that comment. The idea that it’s ridiculous for Anderson to say- yankees fans have been saying Donaldson can mock him for that a guy whose own manager isn’t even defending him lol Think about that- you’re providing more cover for Donaldson than Aaron Boone did. Kind of hilarious from a Red Sox fan I suggest reading the article fwiw, the answer is perfectly legitimate in the context in which it was asked and for the piece it was asked for. Guys just trying to make the game fun again and get more passion for it in the black community. Jackie would never have an issue with it. You find more fault with it than he would.
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Post by manfred on May 23, 2022 17:55:26 GMT -5
I just don’t understand how somebody can find fault with what he said unless they’re being deliberately obtuse. Have you read the article he was quoted in? I highly doubt it because if you did and still made this post there’s something wrong with you, and I don’t think there’s something wrong with you I haven't read the article but I've read multiple tweets about what the article was about. He was referring to his role as a ground breaking "character" in a game where he perceived blacks were expected to behave in a certain way. Sorry, that's just not Robinsonesque. There's nothing wrong with me but there's seriously something wrong with people who imply there's something wrong with people they don't agree with. It is hard to characterize what a guy was saying in an article you haven’t read. Here’s the thought experiment: Donaldson says it was an “inside joke.” Well, first that implies Anderson was in on it…. Demonstrably untrue. That leaves the “joke” — which was… what? Donaldson, who seems barely to know Anderson, calls him “Jackie” during a game… why? To be friendly? Cause he expects it’ll lead to a deep dialogue? Or to get under his skin? And if it is meant to bother him, what is the barb? It seems to me it is obvious Donaldson was being a d—k, and the method of d—kery he chose was to mock Anderson’s comparison… which had nothing to do with how he plays but with race in the game. That is a serious matter, so mocking it not only seeks to belittle Anderson, but it also dismisses the very racism Donaldson perpetuates.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on May 23, 2022 17:58:43 GMT -5
He wasn’t saying that about his own talent level and it’s pretty easy to understand that if you actually read what he said and you don’t go into this with a preconceived agenda. He’s not saying he’s as good of a player as Jackie was- and to be fair he’s a damn good player in his own right- he’s saying that as a standout black player in a league that’s like 5% black with zero black owners or GM’s he feels the need to make an impact to change that. And you know what? That’s entirely, 100% reasonable. The article was about the isolation a black man feels in a sport played by predominantly white men and run almost entirely by white men. Doesn’t take too much to put ones self in another’s shoes and I feel like people lose sight of that from time to time. On the other hand, forgetting the baseball part, he's comped himself to Jackie Freaking Robinson. I have black friends, I must be just like MLK. Shakespeare had an entire play about this episode. As I understand it, he didn't comp himself to Jackie Robinson as a player or as the person who integrated baseball. He was saying that he wants to break barriers in the category of having fun and showing emotion when players do well. Mookie Betts and others (not only Black players) have expressed similar sentiments but they didn't say it in quite the same way. Anderson certainly said it in a provocative way and by definition he should expect to provoke reactions but no one really knows exactly what was said in that scrum (except for the guys who were in it). Still, whatever he said in the magazine was three years ago, which seems like a long time ago in terms of something that was being brought up on the field in a confrontational situation.
Some guys are jerks and say jerky things and some guys are quick to interpret things as inflammatory and malicious whether they are or not, so it could be almost anything at the root. I don't really care either way, except to the extent that it causes internal friction for the MFYs. I hope that it drives a big ol' wedge down the middle of their clubhouse and they split into factions. Boony has already had to comment publicly on it and I hope it's not the last time.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 23, 2022 17:59:56 GMT -5
My thought on Donaldson is that if baseball players were required to have more than a room temperature IQ, we'd have a lot less baseball players.
You can interpret and read into what I said any way you want, I'm finished with this.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,182
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Post by cdj on May 23, 2022 18:02:36 GMT -5
Totally understand what you’re saying but nobody is asking baseball players to be MENSA members, we just don’t want them making racially insensitive comments in 2022. We should be long past that. That’s all. 99% of them have had no problem doing that
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Post by patford on May 23, 2022 18:07:04 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 23, 2022 18:23:11 GMT -5
Totally understand what you’re saying but nobody is asking baseball players to be MENSA members, we just don’t want them making racially insensitive comments in 2022. We should be long past that. That’s all. 99% of them have had no problem doing that We have achieved common ground without regurgitating the same thing over and over and over again. Kudos.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 23, 2022 18:34:39 GMT -5
I haven't read the article but I've read multiple tweets about what the article was about. He was referring to his role as a ground breaking "character" in a game where he perceived blacks were expected to behave in a certain way. Sorry, that's just not Robinsonesque. There's nothing wrong with me but there's seriously something wrong with people who imply there's something wrong with people they don't agree with. It is hard to characterize what a guy was saying in an article you haven’t read. Here’s the thought experiment: Donaldson says it was an “inside joke.” Well, first that implies Anderson was in on it…. Demonstrably untrue. That leaves the “joke” — which was… what? Donaldson, who seems barely to know Anderson, calls him “Jackie” during a game… why? To be friendly? Cause he expects it’ll lead to a deep dialogue? Or to get under his skin? And if it is meant to bother him, what is the barb? It seems to me it is obvious Donaldson was being a d—k, and the method of d—kery he chose was to mock Anderson’s comparison… which had nothing to do with how he plays but with race in the game. That is a serious matter, so mocking it not only seeks to belittle Anderson, but it also dismisses the very racism Donaldson perpetuates. This was well said, Manfred.
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Post by cotuitfan on May 23, 2022 18:39:37 GMT -5
Yes, let's move on please
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Post by keninten on May 23, 2022 19:40:12 GMT -5
Got to put my 2 cents in. I don`t understand that calling someone Jackie is an insult, unless you look down on Jackie. I`m an Indian or Native American to be politically correct. Most Indians I know took it as an insult that Cleveland changed their name. I`m now a Braves fan after the Sox. Don`t like the Guardians anymore because we think they are the racists because they were honoring us and now took it away. I loved Chief Wahoo and also caricatures of my kids I got at the fair. Don`t know where the line is anymore but know their are alot of self-righteous pissed off people nowadays.
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Post by jmei on May 23, 2022 21:12:29 GMT -5
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Post by kingofthetrill on May 23, 2022 21:17:34 GMT -5
I`m an Indian or Native American to be politically correct. Most Indians I know took it as an insult that Cleveland changed their name. I`m now a Braves fan after the Sox. Don`t like the Guardians anymore because we think they are the racists because they were honoring us and now took it away. I loved Chief Wahoo and also caricatures of my kids I got at the fair. Don`t know where the line is anymore but know their are alot of self-righteous pissed off people nowadays. Thank you for this take sir.
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Post by jl1947 on May 23, 2022 22:50:01 GMT -5
I said nothing about Donaldson. You didn't have to. You showed where you stand. Donaldson is not incidental to this conversation. Without reading the entirety of what Anderson said you decided to opine, it seems, almost strictly out of preconceptions. What is one to make of that? When one sees these sorts of code-speak, one knows how to read the subtext given the history of comments moored around similar issues. Hence the expectation of who would defend such behaviour before they even post.
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Post by patford on May 24, 2022 7:50:46 GMT -5
I said nothing about Donaldson. You didn't have to. You showed where you stand. Donaldson is not incidental to this conversation. Without reading the entirety of what Anderson said you decided to opine, it seems, almost strictly out of preconceptions. What is one to make of that? When one sees these sorts of code-speak, one knows how to read the subtext given the history of comments moored around similar issues. Hence the expectation of who would defend such behaviour before they even post. Let's see what Joe Kelly has to say. Kelly is familiar with both men.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2022 7:51:44 GMT -5
I don`t understand that calling someone Jackie is an insult, unless you look down on Jackie. Bro, don't overthink this. WHY would you call a black guy JACKIE out of absolute nowhere? Imagine I'm walking down the market and I see this big black dude and I go like YO SHAQUILLE! In what universe is that acceptable? Who even talks like that?
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Post by incandenza on May 24, 2022 13:37:44 GMT -5
Speaking of maleficent Yankees, looks like Aroldis Chapman's decline phase may be solidly underway (it was already overdue). His fastball velocity is down this year; his FIP has gone from 2.93 to 3.99 to 4.96 in the last 3 seasons, with xERA and ERA following a similar trajectory. So that's good to see.
Unfortunately he's a free agent after this season, so no albatross contract potential.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 24, 2022 16:49:45 GMT -5
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on May 25, 2022 16:19:55 GMT -5
Protect Khalil Watson.
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