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Post by Guidas on Jul 23, 2022 15:55:21 GMT -5
To me it’s apparent the Red Sox pitching is a weekness. In the year the Sox were one of worst teams in league ( Covid year) their pitching was horrible. This year relievers and started set them back again. This has now becomes blooms team. The holes (1st, of, bullpen, starters) are his doing! I believe this: he is slow to move and allows players time and time and time to fully show their value or lack of it. That works in small market teams where they don’t expect to win year in and year out. It will not work in Boston where massacres like last night bring out the sharks. He won’t last if he can’t fill holes quicker. ( be that in minors or majors) Additionally- he’s hesitant ( and ownership seems to be also) to give up market leading/setting contracts out ( devers and Xander). So it he loses devers/Xander/jd/euvaldi AND don’t fill the clear holes on their team now this off season —- Chaim won’t be here for a 4th season. I truly believe from here till end of next season chaim is at a breaking point of his tenure in Boston. They have to show improvements at the major league level This is just commenting based off Boston market. But it starts with this trade deadline. What do I think should be done…? Give in to not winning this season and deal those who won’t be here next year. Decide if Xander or devers can be signed ( ownership call). If not— deal one or both. And honestly - if your dealing both I believe you need a headliner to reboot with. ( Soto/judge/?). I’m not saying what I like or don’t like just that you better have a face and show you have a plan for a face because I don’t know how you survive without it. You have to take a strong stand on your position and be basically willing to “fall on” your sword. Whatever that is. NOW is the time to start putting your imprint on this next wave of talent I believe If they traded Devers and signed Judge, I’d root for the Yankees against them. Dead to me until the entire organization is purged from owner to beer vendors. Thankfully, it is not going to happen. Beer vendor: "Hey, I advised them to extend Devers and then sign Soto after 2024!"
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Post by blizzards39 on Jul 23, 2022 16:13:51 GMT -5
Trade Anybody that gives you value in return. ( keeping in mind 40 man)
Trade for Soto. (1 of the top 4 plus Whatever else it takes???)
Sign Devers and Soto for whatever it takes.
Should still have 70 plus million to spend in off-season
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Post by manfred on Jul 23, 2022 16:14:44 GMT -5
Trade Anybody that gives you value in return. ( keeping in mind 40 man) Trade for Soto. (1 of the top 4 plus Whatever else it takes???) Sign Devers and Soto for whatever it takes. Should still have 70 plus million to spend in off-season Might be closer to 4 of the top 4 and…
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Post by carl4sox on Jul 23, 2022 16:33:07 GMT -5
Xander has a full no-trade clause.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jul 23, 2022 17:58:17 GMT -5
Trade Anybody that gives you value in return. ( keeping in mind 40 man) Trade for Soto. (1 of the top 4 plus Whatever else it takes???) Sign Devers and Soto for whatever it takes. Should still have 70 plus million to spend in off-season Might be closer to 4 of the top 4 and… Won’t take 4 of top 4. I realize nats are not going to take a grab bag. But 2 or the top 4 and 3 other pieces and taking Corbin probably do it.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2022 17:59:16 GMT -5
Might be closer to 4 of the top 4 and… Won’t take 4 of top 4. I realize nats are not going to take a grab bag. But 2 or the top 4 and 3 other pieces and taking Corbin probably do it.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 23, 2022 18:11:26 GMT -5
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Post by wildsox on Jul 23, 2022 18:23:57 GMT -5
Up until yesterday I was fully against selling. But after watching these 2 performances I think we need to be selling off at least some parts that have value
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 23, 2022 19:05:56 GMT -5
Is this crazy?
Sell the future for Soto and sell the present for prospects
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 23, 2022 19:08:29 GMT -5
Is this crazy? Sell the future for Soto and sell the present for prospects No, it’s a great idea. Trade for Castillo too. We need someone to front the staff going forward too
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Post by wOBA Fett on Jul 23, 2022 19:20:54 GMT -5
I think the Red Sox are quickly turning into Sellers and Xander will be on the move.
Losing Sale for another month changes the projection for the 2nd half and The Red Sox are going to lose to many games without Devers and JD.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 23, 2022 19:22:23 GMT -5
Is this crazy? Sell the future for Soto and sell the present for prospects Gonna be tough to outbid teams that are going to place a lot of value on the fact that he can play baseball for them the next three months
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Post by manfred on Jul 23, 2022 19:23:19 GMT -5
Maybe they should trade X. He only has 5-6 really good years left, so why not play them for a contender?
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 23, 2022 19:34:42 GMT -5
Maybe they should trade X. He only has 5-6 really good years left, so why not play them for a contender? Even if they do trade him it would not rule out signing him for the next 5-6 years, or a similarly talented SS. Obviously would reduce the odds by some amount though.
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Post by rizdog on Jul 23, 2022 20:44:22 GMT -5
I know yesterday's start might have hurt, but I wonder if old friend Dave Dombroski might be interested in Eovaldi? The Athletic mentioned Phillies looking for starting pitching. We know DD likes Nate....and we know we can probably get him to kick in an extra prospect to get the deal done!
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 23, 2022 20:47:42 GMT -5
Phillies need a SS too. This is getting me excited.
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Post by carl4sox on Jul 23, 2022 20:58:02 GMT -5
Xander has a full no-trade clause
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Post by rizdog on Jul 23, 2022 21:08:24 GMT -5
O'Hoppe was actually the first guy I looked at. Unfortunately, MLBtradevalues doesn't think it's close, they have O'Hoppe at 21 and Nate only at 3.6. But I'd bet DD would be willing to over pay a little bit, although not that much. He'd still be the first guy I'd call if I was Chaim, he might be interested in some other players he brought to Sox too?
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bcsox
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Post by bcsox on Jul 23, 2022 22:50:46 GMT -5
Going back to Eric Vans post which was excellent, but renting Xander and announcing you want him back once he hits free agency is textbook tampering, no? You can’t announce you want another teams player.
I think this team is dead in the water but that we will be disappointed that not more guys will be mover at the deadline.
I assume with trades, we will be asking for younger guys who are not up for 40 man protection.
I suggest sending some money with the guys we are trading to get a better prospect back. Whatever amount of money you are able to send while staying under the tax, should be the goal.
What is an expiring X really worth? Maybe one B+ prospect? Evoladi a little less.
JD: a B prospect of we eat money.
Vaz: another B prospect.
Wacha/Hill: C+ prospect/ lottery tickets.
Any interest in moving Verdugo?
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Post by keninten on Jul 23, 2022 23:02:41 GMT -5
I asked this months ago but not sure if anyone answered me. If the Sox had extended X or Rafi wouldn`t it have raised this year`s payroll? If I recall A-Gon was signed after the season started to keep his raise off that year`s payroll but sometime after that it was changed so it couldn`t be done anymore. It`s the reason I keep hoping that is why the Sox have not extended X or Rafi.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 24, 2022 0:13:03 GMT -5
I asked this months ago but not sure if anyone answered me. If the Sox had extended X or Rafi wouldn`t it have raised this year`s payroll? If I recall A-Gon was signed after the season started to keep his raise off that year`s payroll but sometime after that it was changed so it couldn`t be done anymore. It`s the reason I keep hoping that is why the Sox have not extended X or Rafi. The change wasn't made to prevent this from happening, but to make it easier to take place. Now you can simply designate the extension to begin the following season without waiting for the season to begin. So with A-Gon's extension, under the current rules, they would have signed him on the spot but designated it to start the following season rather waiting until the first day of the season. Sorry - Doesn't help with Rafi/X.
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Post by keninten on Jul 24, 2022 1:17:58 GMT -5
I asked this months ago but not sure if anyone answered me. If the Sox had extended X or Rafi wouldn`t it have raised this year`s payroll? If I recall A-Gon was signed after the season started to keep his raise off that year`s payroll but sometime after that it was changed so it couldn`t be done anymore. It`s the reason I keep hoping that is why the Sox have not extended X or Rafi. The change wasn't made to prevent this from happening, but to make it easier to take place. Now you can simply designate the extension to begin the following season without waiting for the season to begin. So with A-Gon's extension, under the current rules, they would have signed him on the spot but designated it to start the following season rather waiting until the first day of the season. Sorry - Doesn't help with Rafi/X. Thanks
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 24, 2022 4:12:08 GMT -5
Going back to Eric Vans post which was excellent, but renting Xander and announcing you want him back once he hits free agency is textbook tampering, no? You canât announce you want another teams player. I think this team is dead in the water but that we will be disappointed that not more guys will be mover at the deadline. I assume with trades, we will be asking for younger guys who are not up for 40 man protection. I suggest sending some money with the guys we are trading to get a better prospect back. Whatever amount of money you are able to send while staying under the tax, should be the goal. What is an expiring X really worth? Maybe one B+ prospect? Evoladi a little less. JD: a B prospect of we eat money. Vaz: another B prospect. Wacha/Hill: C+ prospect/ lottery tickets. Any interest in moving Verdugo? Oh, I thought it through and I don't think Xander would go for the rental thing. You just keep him. The work he did in the off-season to turn himself into a (mildly) plus defender from a an almost unacceptable one says everything.
I also forgot to include Kiké in the list of forthcoming free agents you don't trade.
I wouldn't bother thinking about the quality of the prospects they get. It'll all be favorite lottery tickets. What kind of prospect was Kutter a year ago? They've got a bullpen arm that wasn't protected on his team's AAA roster, after he had AAA experience. What kind of prospect was he? (Admittedly, he has a 16.88 ERA, but that would be 3.38 if MLB had a "team error" for popups nobody calls, as has often been suggested.)
Late September roster:
Vazquez (or Plawecki), Casas, Story, X, Devers, Verdugo, Kiké, Refsnyder, Duran (DH); bench Wong, Dalbec, Arroyo, Cordero, Downs or R. Hernandez.
Sale, Paxton, Pivetta, Crawford, Bello, Winckowski. Mix in Seabold, find a start or two for Murphy, Walter, maybe Groome and Mata as well.
Bullpen has Houck, Whitlock, Barnes, Schreiber, Brasier ... and there are 8 more possibilities including German.
That's 24 pitchers, rather more than you need.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 24, 2022 7:17:29 GMT -5
Going back to Eric Vans post which was excellent, but renting Xander and announcing you want him back once he hits free agency is textbook tampering, no? You canât announce you want another teams player. I think this team is dead in the water but that we will be disappointed that not more guys will be mover at the deadline. I assume with trades, we will be asking for younger guys who are not up for 40 man protection. I suggest sending some money with the guys we are trading to get a better prospect back. Whatever amount of money you are able to send while staying under the tax, should be the goal. What is an expiring X really worth? Maybe one B+ prospect? Evoladi a little less. JD: a B prospect of we eat money. Vaz: another B prospect. Wacha/Hill: C+ prospect/ lottery tickets. Any interest in moving Verdugo? Oh, I thought it through and I don't think Xander would go for the rental thing. You just keep him. The work he did in the off-season to turn himself into a (mildly) plus defender from a an almost unacceptable one says everything. I also forgot to include Kiké in the list of forthcoming free agents you don't trade.
I wouldn't bother thinking about the quality of the prospects they get. It'll all be favorite lottery tickets. What kind of prospect was Kutter a year ago? They've got a bullpen arm that wasn't protected on his team's AAA roster, after he had AAA experience. What kind of prospect was he? (Admittedly, he has a 16.88 ERA, but that would be 3.38 if MLB had a "team error" for popups nobody calls, as has often been suggested.)
Late September roster: Vazquez (or Plawecki), Casas, Story, X, Devers, Verdugo, Kiké, Refsnyder, Duran (DH); bench Wong, Dalbec, Arroyo, Cordero, Downs or R. Hernandez. Sale, Paxton, Pivetta, Crawford, Bello, Winckowski. Mix in Seabold, find a start or two for Murphy, Walter, maybe Groome and Mata as well.
Bullpen has Houck, Whitlock, Barnes, Schreiber, Brasier ... and there are 8 more possibilities including German. That's 24 pitchers, rather more than you need.
Do you feel Xander could move to OF a la Robin Yount. I know it isn’t easy. But, X is a very good athlete. Faster than quick. Which is good for OF. He’s shown to be pretty good tracking balls over his head in the past
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Post by kwodes on Jul 24, 2022 8:05:27 GMT -5
I hope they make a legitimate effort to resign eovaldi and Kiké. I think they should trade every other pending free agent. It's not an Alex Cora problem, it's a Dave Dombrowski problem. it's really understated how poorly he left the organization. I think chaim has done a great job building it the right way. Remember, it took the dodgers a few years to get that foundation built before they became the model organization. Build the foundation first, with emphasis on not just acquiring minor league talent, but on getting the player development done right. Once you have the pipeline set you can make the yearly trade deadline splashes while keeping the farm system intact. Once the money opens up they can flex their financial muscle by offering stars short term deals with opt outs for huge AAVs while supplementing those rosters with cheap young talent.
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