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Patriots 2022 Season Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 25, 2022 20:55:42 GMT -5
So was the 2nd half Mac Jones finally getting over his interception worries? Good for him, because if he didn't do that I would have started Zappe next game. Everyone blames everything on MP, yet Mac Jones changed his ways after all those interceptions. Young QB finding his way, exactly what you want to see to end the year. Let's hope he keeps it going. He needs an elite WR. We'll probably talk in circles if it's the coaching or the QB, but Mac badly needs a go to guy. His WR core should be better than last year. He doesn't have a WR1, but it's a pretty good group of receivers. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 25, 2022 21:22:07 GMT -5
His WR core should be better than last year. He doesn't have a WR1, but it's a pretty good group of receivers. I think it's a Moneyball approach that doesn't fly here. His core is good, but he lacks a clear #1 target. To illustrate what I mean, Garrett Wilson made Mike White look somewhat doable as a starter and White is a goddamn bottom tier JAG. Jones has what it takes to be a starter IMO, but he needs a top target or he won't take the next step, he doesn't have the arm to be Mahomes or Herbert. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 25, 2022 23:08:34 GMT -5
Mac needs his Randy Moss. That type of receiver that can make your quarter back look good when he has a few bad ones.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2022 11:40:59 GMT -5
And who again was it that tried to change up the entire run scheme to something far less effective when he came in to run the offense? Nobody is saying he’s the only issue. He sure as hell is a major one. Everybody with eyes sees it and recognizes it, both on a local and national level Would you leave Patricia in charge of the offense next season? If he didn't we'd have the worst offense in football. That's part of the crap that works, his offense can scheme runs. The problem is he doesn't have the personal to play anything else. So you struggle on short yardage, you struggle in red zone with the defense is grouped together. He's not the GM. Last years offense wasn't that great, Mac Jones was darn good as a rookie. Yet he was handled with kid gloves, call it the Trent Dilfer type situation. You called out Josh McDaniels all the time. Same way you called out the handling of Zappe. I mean my goals for the offseason was to add tons of weapons for Mac Jones. Everyone was talking the same way and for good reason. He then drafts two guys I had on my board and liked, yet I had both two rounds lower. Hell no one talks about Bill trading Justin Herron for a 6th round pick. He's a serviceable player at LT and would have been huge when the OL started going to crap. At best this is our GM messed up, Mac Jones has had a steep learning curve when actually given the keys and then MP. LIke I said before I don't care, yet likely move on because I can't take the bitching and that's what you'll have all offseason. I think he's smart enough to do the job, I've liked things he's done and not changing everything for the third time in 3 years will benefit Mac Jones. Ideally I'd hire a good young offensive mind to pair with MP. A guy from the Rams, Vikings or 49er staffs. Yet that's not going to matter if Bill and his new drafting guy/player personnel guy can't find talent that fits on offense. Bill knows defense very well. His drafting and signings on offense outside normally OL are so so at best. That's were Brady helped, demanding talent and telling them what they needed. Yet even then you get picks like Harry. We need that transformation from when we sucked picking DBs, to recently being unreal at it. I will blame MP for not doing what Josh McDaniels did and basically benching Jonnu Smith. He needs to be traded. I truly question taking Thornton in 2nd round, not because I don't like him. He's just a better fit on an offense like the Chiefs or Bills, teams with QBs that have cannons. He's going to have to take a huge step up with route running to be a huge weapon for Mac Jones. Come on now, 90% of everything is MP. I wouldn't even have said a word if everyone was talking about the multiple problems we have. Instead most talking is MP sucks, fire MP, go sign Bill O'Brian. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2022 11:48:44 GMT -5
The defense knew when they were running screens. That's why a QB has the ability to change plays. If they have a defense set to stop screens, then Mac Jones needs to see that and change the play. He's been struggling with that badly all season. Brady did it all the time, so was Josh McDaniels horrible because the D was ready for the plays he called? Brady was just awesome at adjusting on the line given what he was quickly able to see of the D. Mac Jones looks like a 30 year old Mac Computer doing it. It's crystal clear he wasn't asked to do that in College a ton and part of a young QBs growth. He's going to have a lot of tape showing him how to improve this offseason. |
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2022 12:00:23 GMT -5
And who again was it that tried to change up the entire run scheme to something far less effective when he came in to run the offense? Nobody is saying he’s the only issue. He sure as hell is a major one. Everybody with eyes sees it and recognizes it, both on a local and national level Would you leave Patricia in charge of the offense next season? If he didn't we'd have the worst offense in football. That's part of the crap that works, his offense can scheme runs. The problem is he doesn't have the personal to play anything else. So you struggle on short yardage, you struggle in red zone with the defense is grouped together. He's not the GM. Last years offense wasn't that great, Mac Jones was darn good as a rookie. Yet he was handled with kid gloves, call it the Trent Dilfer type situation. You called out Josh McDaniels all the time. Same way you called out the handling of Zappe. I mean my goals for the offseason was to add tons of weapons for Mac Jones. Everyone was talking the same way and for good reason. He then drafts two guys I had on my board and liked, yet I had both two rounds lower. Hell no one talks about Bill trading Justin Herron for a 6th round pick. He's a serviceable player at LT and would have been huge when the OL started going to crap. At best this is our GM messed up, Mac Jones has had a steep learning curve when actually given the keys and then MP. LIke I said before I don't care, yet likely move on because I can't take the bitching and that's what you'll have all offseason. I think he's smart enough to do the job, I've liked things he's done and not changing everything for the third time in 3 years will benefit Mac Jones. Ideally I'd hire a good young offensive mind to pair with MP. A guy from the Rams, Vikings or 49er staffs. Yet that's not going to matter if Bill and his new drafting guy/player personnel guy can't find talent that fits on offense. Bill knows defense very well. His drafting and signings on offense outside normally OL are so so at best. That's were Brady helped, demanding talent and telling them what they needed. Yet even then you get picks like Harry. We need that transformation from when we sucked picking DBs, to recently being unreal at it. I will blame MP for not doing what Josh McDaniels did and basically benching Jonnu Smith. He needs to be traded. I truly question taking Thornton in 2nd round, not because I don't like him. He's just a better fit on an offense like the Chiefs or Bills, teams with QBs that have cannons. He's going to have to take a huge step up with route running to be a huge weapon for Mac Jones. Come on now, 90% of everything is MP. I wouldn't even have said a word if everyone was talking about the multiple problems we have. Instead most talking is MP sucks, fire MP, go sign Bill O'Brian. Perhaps everybody- posters here, fans on social, the teams announcers, analysts, former players, former front office personnel from around the league, basically everybody on God’s green earth outside of yourself- says he sucks BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT HIS JOB. Its very obvious to people who don’t dig in on their positions and refuse to adjust them in the face of a mountain of evidence. I, for instance, was willing to at least give him a chance to see how he did before I ripped him. Turns out my dog would be better at this job. It’s a very easy problem to fix and that’s why people harp on it- go hire a coach who has actually done something with an offense since 2005! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2022 12:55:30 GMT -5
If he didn't we'd have the worst offense in football. That's part of the crap that works, his offense can scheme runs. The problem is he doesn't have the personal to play anything else. So you struggle on short yardage, you struggle in red zone with the defense is grouped together. He's not the GM. Last years offense wasn't that great, Mac Jones was darn good as a rookie. Yet he was handled with kid gloves, call it the Trent Dilfer type situation. You called out Josh McDaniels all the time. Same way you called out the handling of Zappe. I mean my goals for the offseason was to add tons of weapons for Mac Jones. Everyone was talking the same way and for good reason. He then drafts two guys I had on my board and liked, yet I had both two rounds lower. Hell no one talks about Bill trading Justin Herron for a 6th round pick. He's a serviceable player at LT and would have been huge when the OL started going to crap. At best this is our GM messed up, Mac Jones has had a steep learning curve when actually given the keys and then MP. LIke I said before I don't care, yet likely move on because I can't take the bitching and that's what you'll have all offseason. I think he's smart enough to do the job, I've liked things he's done and not changing everything for the third time in 3 years will benefit Mac Jones. Ideally I'd hire a good young offensive mind to pair with MP. A guy from the Rams, Vikings or 49er staffs. Yet that's not going to matter if Bill and his new drafting guy/player personnel guy can't find talent that fits on offense. Bill knows defense very well. His drafting and signings on offense outside normally OL are so so at best. That's were Brady helped, demanding talent and telling them what they needed. Yet even then you get picks like Harry. We need that transformation from when we sucked picking DBs, to recently being unreal at it. I will blame MP for not doing what Josh McDaniels did and basically benching Jonnu Smith. He needs to be traded. I truly question taking Thornton in 2nd round, not because I don't like him. He's just a better fit on an offense like the Chiefs or Bills, teams with QBs that have cannons. He's going to have to take a huge step up with route running to be a huge weapon for Mac Jones. Come on now, 90% of everything is MP. I wouldn't even have said a word if everyone was talking about the multiple problems we have. Instead most talking is MP sucks, fire MP, go sign Bill O'Brian. Perhaps everybody- posters here, fans on social, the teams announcers, analysts, former players, former front office personnel from around the league, basically everybody on God’s green earth outside of yourself- says he sucks BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT HIS JOB. Its very obvious to people who don’t dig in on their positions and refuse to adjust them in the face of a mountain of evidence. I, for instance, was willing to at least give him a chance to see how he did before I ripped him. Turns out my dog would be better at this job. It’s a very easy problem to fix and that’s why people harp on it- go hire a coach who has actually done something with an offense since 2005! See that's not true we've had multiple announcers in recent weeks talking about talent level as the biggest issue as they are watching the games. One saying it's OL talent, the other saying it's a true offensive weapon. You just ignore it and go more off Boston media and sport fans. I would have thought after Ime people might have changed, it's like people still haven't. You know the difference between Ime and MP, it was talent level, Ime had elite talent that was proven. Guys with multiple conference finals appearances. He still made them look like crap for half a year. That's just a lie, what you don't think head coaches are involved with the offense? He spent years working hand and hand with an OC. Coming up with weekly game plans and halftime adjustments. So you'd never hire a coach to be headcoach if he didn't have head coaching experience? Every year people in sports do things they haven't done before. The fact you and so many people think fixing this offense is easy, just replace MP is laughable. First he basically goes against what you claimed last post, you aren't blaming MP for everything. Second it's just not true. Fixing this offense no matter who the OC is, requires an improved OL, weapons that fit Mac Jones and Mac Jones making a huge leap forward. It anything Bill probably should have brought in a better offensive mind to help MP than Joe Judge. That being said, his work with Zappe was darn good and the talent level is crap. Nevermind what talent you have can't be used on the regular given the OL. The idea that a rocket scientist with 20 plus years of coaching experience can't become a good OC is crazy. This is like the crap with Bill after the Browns. He sucks as a headcoach he can only be a DC. Yeah a ton of people said just that, so it must be true! |
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2022 13:02:21 GMT -5
Die on the Matt Patricia hill because he was a rocket scientist or something lol
I ain’t reading all that, it’s akin to arguing with somebody that grass is purple. Good for you though. Or sorry that happened.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 26, 2022 14:12:29 GMT -5
Perhaps everybody- posters here, fans on social, the teams announcers, analysts, former players, former front office personnel from around the league, basically everybody on God’s green earth outside of yourself- says he sucks BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT HIS JOB. Its very obvious to people who don’t dig in on their positions and refuse to adjust them in the face of a mountain of evidence. I, for instance, was willing to at least give him a chance to see how he did before I ripped him. Turns out my dog would be better at this job. It’s a very easy problem to fix and that’s why people harp on it- go hire a coach who has actually done something with an offense since 2005! See that's not true we've had multiple announcers in recent weeks talking about talent level as the biggest issue as they are watching the games. One saying it's OL talent, the other saying it's a true offensive weapon. You just ignore it and go more off Boston media and sport fans. I would have thought after Ime people might have changed, it's like people still haven't. You know the difference between Ime and MP, it was talent level, Ime had elite talent that was proven. Guys with multiple conference finals appearances. He still made them look like crap for half a year. That's just a lie, what you don't think head coaches are involved with the offense? He spent years working hand and hand with an OC. Coming up with weekly game plans and halftime adjustments. So you'd never hire a coach to be headcoach if he didn't have head coaching experience? Every year people in sports do things they haven't done before. The fact you and so many people think fixing this offense is easy, just replace MP is laughable. First he basically goes against what you claimed last post, you aren't blaming MP for everything. Second it's just not true. Fixing this offense no matter who the OC is, requires an improved OL, weapons that fit Mac Jones and Mac Jones making a huge leap forward. It anything Bill probably should have brought in a better offensive mind to help MP than Joe Judge. That being said, his work with Zappe was darn good and the talent level is crap. Nevermind what talent you have can't be used on the regular given the OL. The idea that a rocket scientist with 20 plus years of coaching experience can't become a good OC is crazy. This is like the crap with Bill after the Browns. He sucks as a headcoach he can only be a DC. Yeah a ton of people said just that, so it must be true! What announcer has said MP isn't responsible or should have his job next year? You literally had a defensive coordinator laughing at MP before you played them, it's that bad. Mac doesn't have an elite number 1 receiver, but his WR group is better than last year. The OL isn't the worst in the league either. They shouldn't have gone this far backwards. Just replacing MP won't fix all of this team's woes, but literally, who has said anything positive or even neutral about him. These are the people who hate MP in general or think he's not a great OC. Richard Sherman, Rob Ninkovich, James White, Scott Zolak, Vance Joseph, Kendrick Bourne, Mac Jones, Dan Orlovsky, Stephen Tulloch, Darius Slay,Ashawn Robinson, heck Garrett Hudson called MP the worst person he's encountered in his football career. How is it possible that basically everyone on the offensive side be having down years and not correlate to the new OC who has never coached offense before? If anything, he should have been an assistant learning the job for 3-5 years, not thrown into the role and given other jobs he's not used to in addition. nesn.com/2022/12/patriots-offenses-matt-patricia-experiment-predictably-has-failed/I'm not sold on Mac Jones, but this is ridiculous. He was a very ok QB in his rookie season and now he looks like a guy who should be playing arena football. KB was his number 1 receiver and the team went away from him because he was late for a practice? Generally guys do better year 2 with a new team, not worse. Again, he's not the only problem, but he's where you start. If I'm the Patriots I bring in Jimmy G and trade Mac, but I'm fine with trying one more year with a real OC. |
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Post by mobaz on Dec 26, 2022 16:07:44 GMT -5
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2022 17:17:02 GMT -5
Terrific play design. Timing on point.
As Vance Joseph said it looks like their offense is coached by a DC.
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Post by jmei on Dec 26, 2022 17:37:47 GMT -5
More fodder:
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2022 18:06:18 GMT -5
All this evidence and yet we still can’t be sure if Matty P is good or not.
On one hand the offense has no clue what it’s doing and they’re completely inept but on the other hand he was a rocket scientist and offensive assistant 17 years ago or something. Hmmmmmm can’t make up my mind which way I lean? 🤔 🧐 🤨
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Post by foreverred9 on Dec 26, 2022 19:19:49 GMT -5
On the first play, let's also call out how on 3rd and 4 the SHORTEST route being run by the receivers is 13 yards down the field. Where's the slot receiver cutting across the middle, or running the Z route back to the sidelines? Or running a hitch? Also, who else is jealous to see how easy it is for Dan to watch film of the game? Unfortunately you need credentials to get to the web page he was on. |
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Post by cdj on Dec 26, 2022 19:23:38 GMT -5
On the first play, let's also call out how on 3rd and 4 the SHORTEST route being run by the receivers is 13 yards down the field. Where's the slot receiver cutting across the middle, or running the Z route back to the sidelines? Or running a hitch? Also, who else is jealous to see how easy it is for Dan to watch film of the game? Unfortunately you need credentials to get to the web page he was on. Criticized that on game day, BRAINDEAD + INDEFENSIBLE PLAY CALLING. He is a rocket scientist though, clearly and obviously something that makes you great at calling an NFL offense My friend is a rocket scientist for Boeing, maybe I’ll tell him to send in an application for a role on the offense |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 20:31:51 GMT -5
I truly believe you can win a super bowl with Mac Jones in the future as long you give him right weapons and good coaching behind him that's how I feel and could be wrong but won’t judge Mac on this season.
Look at Aaron Rodgers take away his weapons he looks vulnerable this season.
Trevor Lawrence who had poor coaching last year under Urban Meyer who got fired now he is in the right situation and looks like the next big thing at QB.
The thing that scares me the most is Jacoby Meyers is a free agent next year and rated the best available WR and I can't see Kraft out bidding other teams for his services and you could have less weapons going into next season.
You could bring in Sean McVay as your next OC and might not matter just speaking hypothetically and both sides would be right.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 26, 2022 20:44:31 GMT -5
I truly believe you can win a super bowl with Mac Jones in the future as long you give him right weapons and good coaching behind him that's how I feel and could be wrong but won’t judge Mac on this season. Look at Aaron Rodgers take away his weapons he looks vulnerable this season. Trevor Lawrence who had poor coaching last year under Urban Meyer who got fired now he is in the right situation and looks like the next big thing at QB. The thing that scares me the most is Jacoby Meyers is a free agent next year and rated the best available WR and I can't see Kraft out bidding other teams for his services and you could have less weapons going into next season. You could bring in Sean McVay as your next OC and might not matter just speaking hypothetically and both sides would be right. Mac Jones of last year isn't good enough to win it all. Mac Jones of this year should be playing in the arena league or CFL. I don't know if Mac has the upside to be a champion. Matt Stafford Tom Brady Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Nick Foles Tom Brady Peyton Manning Tom Brady Russell Wilson Joe Flacco Peyton Manning was cooked that year. Nick Foles out-dueled an historic Tom Brady. Say what you want about Flacco, but he showed up in big games. I don't think Mac will ever be good enough to make that list unless the Patriots get an historical defense and a very functional offense. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 22:07:03 GMT -5
I truly believe you can win a super bowl with Mac Jones in the future as long you give him right weapons and good coaching behind him that's how I feel and could be wrong but won’t judge Mac on this season. Look at Aaron Rodgers take away his weapons he looks vulnerable this season. Trevor Lawrence who had poor coaching last year under Urban Meyer who got fired now he is in the right situation and looks like the next big thing at QB. The thing that scares me the most is Jacoby Meyers is a free agent next year and rated the best available WR and I can't see Kraft out bidding other teams for his services and you could have less weapons going into next season. You could bring in Sean McVay as your next OC and might not matter just speaking hypothetically and both sides would be right. Mac Jones of last year isn't good enough to win it all. Mac Jones of this year should be playing in the arena league or CFL. I don't know if Mac has the upside to be a champion. Matt Stafford Tom Brady Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Nick Foles Tom Brady Peyton Manning Tom Brady Russell Wilson Joe Flacco Peyton Manning was cooked that year. Nick Foles out-dueled an historic Tom Brady. Say what you want about Flacco, but he showed up in big games. I don't think Mac will ever be good enough to make that list unless the Patriots get an historical defense and a very functional offense. That lost had nothing to do with both QB's it had to do with bad coaching on BB part and Doug Pederson out dueled Bill with Brady having the best numbers in super bowl era and now Doug Pederson is coaching Trevor Lawrence. When Mac Jones does leave and will he just another rookie on a cheap contract then they will turn to Zappe and I hope Mac sticks to the Patriots. We both don't know it's all hypothetical but someday we will. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 22:10:02 GMT -5
That got screwed up
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 27, 2022 13:53:11 GMT -5
Mac Jones of last year isn't good enough to win it all. Mac Jones of this year should be playing in the arena league or CFL. I don't know if Mac has the upside to be a champion. Matt Stafford Tom Brady Patrick Mahomes Tom Brady Nick Foles Tom Brady Peyton Manning Tom Brady Russell Wilson Joe Flacco Peyton Manning was cooked that year. Nick Foles out-dueled an historic Tom Brady. Say what you want about Flacco, but he showed up in big games. I don't think Mac will ever be good enough to make that list unless the Patriots get an historical defense and a very functional offense. That lost had nothing to do with both QB's it had to do with bad coaching on BB part and Doug Pederson out dueled Bill with Brady having the best numbers in super bowl era and now Doug Pederson is coaching Trevor Lawrence. When Mac Jones does leave and will he just another rookie on a cheap contract then they will turn to Zappe and I hope Mac sticks to the Patriots. We both don't know it's all hypothetical but someday we will. Even with a terrible defensive game plan, you need a QB who can execute and Foles did exactly that. To win a game when the other guy put up numbers never before seen is impressive, regardless what the defense was giving you. If memory serves me correctly, they never punted or turned the ball over. I also believe Foles had a good post season in general. Peyton was done, but that Broncos defense was absolutely ferocious and didn't buckle under top tier QBs, unlike the Patriots. I also think there was some veteran leadership with Peyton though because I'm not sold on them winning with Brock Osweiler. But that's exactly what I think Mac would need to win a ring. Ball protection, an elite defense and an ability to score when needed. Bill needs to learn that the QB position is the most important in the game. Yeah, not sure how that happened lol |
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 29, 2022 16:31:50 GMT -5
We get points from our defense and usually when that happens you win. 2 more games left.
It's still not enough for this offense. Change is good. looking forward to the offseason when Kraft meets BB for his come to jesus moment.
Easy question to answer lose the next 2 games. I dont want to see this offense in a playoff game.
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Post by jmei on Dec 29, 2022 16:37:39 GMT -5
Just taking the temperature here—would you rather they win these last two games and make the playoffs but get waxed by the Chiefs or Bills, or would you rather they lose the last two games and get a better pick?
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Post by jmei on Dec 29, 2022 16:42:17 GMT -5
For me—I’d rather have the playoffs. The difference between (say) the 18th pick and the 12th pick isn’t that big and would be nice to see them build some character by winning these last two must-win games, even if it culminates in a first round loss.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 29, 2022 16:42:52 GMT -5
Just taking the temperature here—would you rather they win these last two games and make the playoffs but get waxed by the Chiefs or Bills, or would you rather they lose the last two games and get a better pick? I want to see them play well, then let the chips fall as they may. Odds of them playing full, clean games is pretty remote, however |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 29, 2022 19:32:21 GMT -5
For me—I’d rather have the playoffs. The difference between (say) the 18th pick and the 12th pick isn’t that big and would be nice to see them build some character by winning these last two must-win games, even if it culminates in a first round loss. Don't they still have an outside chance as high as 6th? I was writing out justifications for a higher pick, but Bill has been awful at drafting lately. So honestly, that part I don't care. He'll likely trade down and take the wrong guy anyways. I do wonder if there's any organizational reshuffling if they miss or if that part has already been decided one way or the other? I favor whatever creates the most internal changes. If Miami hadn't just lost 4 in a row, I'd probably let New England win just to hope for status quo. With that said, I'd lean picks and mounting pressure for Kraft to make changes. |
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