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Will the Red Sox completely clean house this offseason?
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Post by wOBA Fett on Sept 19, 2022 21:42:28 GMT -5
I'm starting to think the Red Sox won't bring back the vast majority of the roster after reading some of the comments following KPs departure.
Rich Hill
“[Losing Plawecki] was very difficult. Throughout the clubhouse, it was a tough one for everybody. What everybody sees out in the field and in the dugout, but what you don’t realize is the humanity side of this game. We’re not just all numbers. We’re human beings. And removing a guy like that from the clubhouse is a big hit for a lot of guys; I would say everybody in here.”
Nathan Evoldi
“It’s extremely difficult. I felt like everything he has done for the organization and the player he is, it’s unfortunate to see him go, especially on those terms, with only three weeks to go in the system. I haven’t talked to Chaim or anybody else to get the true reasoning behind it. I was disappointed when I heard the news.
“I understand it’s a tough decision, but you want to build a championship around guys like that. Guys who are going to do what it takes to win ballgames and do whatever they have to do to help the team win, and I felt he was doing that. We had (Kyle) Schwarber last year, and Hunter Renfroe and certain guys like that. There are the guys that do the little things right on the field and off the field when you’re in the clubhouse. It’s hard to find a player who interacts with both pitchers and position players. Sometimes you can be a little divided. But when you have guys like Plaw, Renfroe, Schwarber. All of those guys were extremely good guys in the clubhouse. I think sometimes that goes a little further than productivity or whatever on the field. To me that was a very difficult one, to lose a guy like him even where we are in the season in the last few weeks.”
Granted, Hill and Evoldi aren't in the long term plans of this team, but they are two of leaders of this clubhouse. I'm also starting to question whether this season has burned the bridge with Xander.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 19, 2022 22:15:39 GMT -5
I'm starting to think the Red Sox won't bring back the vast majority of the roster after reading some of the comments following KPs departure. Rich Hill“[Losing Plawecki] was very difficult. Throughout the clubhouse, it was a tough one for everybody. What everybody sees out in the field and in the dugout, but what you don’t realize is the humanity side of this game. We’re not just all numbers. We’re human beings. And removing a guy like that from the clubhouse is a big hit for a lot of guys; I would say everybody in here.” Nathan Evoldi
“It’s extremely difficult. I felt like everything he has done for the organization and the player he is, it’s unfortunate to see him go, especially on those terms, with only three weeks to go in the system. I haven’t talked to Chaim or anybody else to get the true reasoning behind it. I was disappointed when I heard the news. “I understand it’s a tough decision, but you want to build a championship around guys like that. Guys who are going to do what it takes to win ballgames and do whatever they have to do to help the team win, and I felt he was doing that. We had (Kyle) Schwarber last year, and Hunter Renfroe and certain guys like that. There are the guys that do the little things right on the field and off the field when you’re in the clubhouse. It’s hard to find a player who interacts with both pitchers and position players. Sometimes you can be a little divided. But when you have guys like Plaw, Renfroe, Schwarber. All of those guys were extremely good guys in the clubhouse. I think sometimes that goes a little further than productivity or whatever on the field. To me that was a very difficult one, to lose a guy like him even where we are in the season in the last few weeks.” Granted, Hill and Evoldi aren't in the long term plans of this team, but they are two of leaders of this clubhouse. I'm also starting to question whether this season has burned the bridge with Xander. These are athletes who are acting like children. These vets have been around the game their entire life. They know how this game is played. Teammates are traded and released all the time. And these same vets were mad that bloom (mostly) stood pat at the deadline because bloom said that he believed in the team he had. Yes they traded CV, but these so called “vets” were mad that bloom didn’t go all in. Um. Hello? If he went all in more of you would have been traded at the the deadline than CV. They want to blame anyone they should look in the dang mirror as their craptastic performance most of the season is why The sox are where the stand today. (Looking at you JDM among others) Same with Xander who cried to the media after the trade deadline. These players call themselves vets? They have acted more like self centered kids most of the season / end rant
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Post by keninten on Sept 19, 2022 22:23:24 GMT -5
I don`t see Eovaldi or Hill necessarily bad mouthing anyone. Just see them as saying good things about a teammate they liked.
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Post by danredhawk on Sept 19, 2022 22:27:54 GMT -5
These vets have been around the game their entire life, teammates are released & traded all the time...
And they're still speaking up. Maybe there's a reason?
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 19, 2022 22:34:43 GMT -5
These vets have been around the game their entire life, teammates are released & traded all the time... And they're still speaking up. Maybe there's a reason? Then they should blame themselves. They played like dog poop the entire season. Perhaps if they played better we would be in playoff contention I mean just for starters how many times has the “heart” of the order (JDM/XANDER/Devers) come up empty in the clutch this season? Those three alone are paid how much?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 19, 2022 22:41:30 GMT -5
These vets have been around the game their entire life, teammates are released & traded all the time... And they're still speaking up. Maybe there's a reason? Then they should blame themselves. They played like dog poop the entire season. Perhaps if they played better we would be in playoff contention They have a reason to blame Bloom and be unhappy with his moves and they should also look in the mirror. There should be plenty of blame to go around. I'm sure a lot of players were scratching their heads trying to figure out why the Sox would weaken RF or not replace or bring back Schwarber's bat. But as much as they might not have liked his passivity during the offseason, it's on them the players to play and win. They failed miserably and have not exactly been a stout hearted bunch. I'm tired of hearing about the injuries. What, like the Rays haven't been hit hard by injuries? The Yankees didn't have to withstand them too? The Red Sox players didn't suck it up. They just sucked. Between Bloom, Cora, and the lack of grit by the players, it's been a miserable season to follow the team. Don't feel good about any of them after this season.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 19, 2022 22:48:19 GMT -5
I haven't seen all the games so I must have missed the part where Plawecki was doing all the little things to win ballgames.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Sept 19, 2022 23:09:12 GMT -5
This is a complete non story that is only being overthought and over-discussed because everyone is done with this year’s team.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Sept 19, 2022 23:47:02 GMT -5
This is a complete non story that is only being overthought and over-discussed because everyone is done with this year’s team. Doesn't change the fact that we are looking at a massive overhaul this offseason. I'd bet good money the Red Sox start next year less than 12 players from the 2022 opening day roster, which is shocking.
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Post by soxinsf on Sept 20, 2022 2:26:35 GMT -5
How many are left now? A wholesale housecleaning can’t be measured by the April roster. A wholesale house cleaning would cut ten or more from today’s roster.
Hill, Eovaldi or Wacha, Brazier, Barnes, Pham or Refsnyder, Chang, Hosmer. All easy to give up. Then we have JD and Bogarts. All or most of that before any trades.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 20, 2022 6:10:47 GMT -5
These vets have been around the game their entire life, teammates are released & traded all the time... And they're still speaking up. Maybe there's a reason? Then they should blame themselves. They played like dog poop the entire season. Perhaps if they played better we would be in playoff contention I mean just for starters how many times has the “heart” of the order (JDM/XANDER/Devers) come up empty in the clutch this season? Those three alone are paid how much? Sorry, but who cares what they are paid ? The contracts were negotiated by 2 parties and that really isn't relevant. There have been degrees of underperformance, so it is fair to be critical there. However, that is the difficulty of playing at a Pro level, everyone understands that can happen. I don't take the players reactions with a grain of salt. It appears to be a continuation of some of the Bogey talk around the All-Star break. There is bound to be some hostile carryover towards management when good friends on the team get released. I don't think that should be surprising, whatever the context of their quotes. And releasing a guy, who is obviously well liked, with 3 Weeks left in a losing season is really kind of shortsighted and stupid, IMO. It has a transactional vibe that feels unnecessary to me. Will they clean house ? All depends on who is doing the cleaning. Maybe the players will be cleaning house with Ownership and Mgt and finding other places to play. One thing i am pretty certain about, if Bloom let's guys go because they voice their feeling about positive clubhouse guys getting released, then he is in even more trouble than I think he is in to build a contending club.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 20, 2022 6:50:16 GMT -5
Should have been done at the deadline.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,583
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Post by radiohix on Sept 20, 2022 8:21:57 GMT -5
It's like when a pitcher is barking at a hitter who flipped his bat after taking him deep. You don't like it? Then pitch better!
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Post by cardsox on Sept 20, 2022 8:29:54 GMT -5
This is the part I never understand . For every guy you pick up at the deadline, you must cut, trade, or send down one of the guys currently on the roster. Is it only losing popular players that bothers these guys?
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Post by costpet on Sept 20, 2022 8:47:38 GMT -5
I don't get it. They let him go with less than a month to go in a nothing season. It certainly made no difference in their win/loss count. They just wanted to open a roster spot for AAA tryouts. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's a good thing thinking of next year. CV was a good clubhouse guy. Did trading him change anything?
Being a great clubhouse guy doesn't translate to a lot of wins. Being great on the field is what does it.
There's going to be a lot of crying when they clean out the roster this winter. Maybe if they played better it wouldn't have happened. So, shut up and take your medicine.
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Post by ortiz on Sept 20, 2022 8:59:52 GMT -5
I'm starting to think the Red Sox won't bring back the vast majority of the roster after reading some of the comments following KPs departure. Rich Hill“[Losing Plawecki] was very difficult. Throughout the clubhouse, it was a tough one for everybody. What everybody sees out in the field and in the dugout, but what you don’t realize is the humanity side of this game. We’re not just all numbers. We’re human beings. And removing a guy like that from the clubhouse is a big hit for a lot of guys; I would say everybody in here.” Nathan Evoldi
“It’s extremely difficult. I felt like everything he has done for the organization and the player he is, it’s unfortunate to see him go, especially on those terms, with only three weeks to go in the system. I haven’t talked to Chaim or anybody else to get the true reasoning behind it. I was disappointed when I heard the news. “I understand it’s a tough decision, but you want to build a championship around guys like that. Guys who are going to do what it takes to win ballgames and do whatever they have to do to help the team win, and I felt he was doing that. We had (Kyle) Schwarber last year, and Hunter Renfroe and certain guys like that. There are the guys that do the little things right on the field and off the field when you’re in the clubhouse. It’s hard to find a player who interacts with both pitchers and position players. Sometimes you can be a little divided. But when you have guys like Plaw, Renfroe, Schwarber. All of those guys were extremely good guys in the clubhouse. I think sometimes that goes a little further than productivity or whatever on the field. To me that was a very difficult one, to lose a guy like him even where we are in the season in the last few weeks.” Granted, Hill and Evoldi aren't in the long term plans of this team, but they are two of leaders of this clubhouse. I'm also starting to question whether this season has burned the bridge with Xander. These are athletes who are acting like children. These vets have been around the game their entire life. They know how this game is played. Teammates are traded and released all the time. And these same vets were mad that bloom (mostly) stood pat at the deadline because bloom said that he believed in the team he had. Yes they traded CV, but these so called “vets” were mad that bloom didn’t go all in. Um. Hello? If he went all in more of you would have been traded at the the deadline than CV. They want to blame anyone they should look in the dang mirror as their craptastic performance most of the season is why The sox are where the stand today. (Looking at you JDM among others) Same with Xander who cried to the media after the trade deadline. These players call themselves vets? They have acted more like self centered kids most of the season / end rant These are vets that understand that a good team is greater than the sum of its parts. People who have participated in good teams understand this…….
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 20, 2022 9:07:38 GMT -5
Then they should blame themselves. They played like dog poop the entire season. Perhaps if they played better we would be in playoff contention I mean just for starters how many times has the “heart” of the order (JDM/XANDER/Devers) come up empty in the clutch this season? Those three alone are paid how much? Sorry, but who cares what they are paid ? The contracts were negotiated by 2 parties and that really isn't relevant. There have been degrees of underperformance, so it is fair to be critical there. However, that is the difficulty of playing at a Pro level, everyone understands that can happen. I don't take the players reactions with a grain of salt. It appears to be a continuation of some of the Bogey talk around the All-Star break. There is bound to be some hostile carryover towards management when good friends on the team get released. I don't think that should be surprising, whatever the context of their quotes. And releasing a guy, who is obviously well liked, with 3 Weeks left in a losing season is really kind of shortsighted and stupid, IMO. It has a transactional vibe that feels unnecessary to me. Will they clean house ? All depends on who is doing the cleaning.&nbs p; Maybe the players will be cleaning house with Ownership and Mgt and finding other places to play. One thing i am pretty certain about, if Bloom let's guys go because they voice their feeling about positive clubhouse guys getting released, then he is in even more trouble than I think he is in to build a contending club. uhhh, everyone? if you are being paid millions of dollars to perform, and you play like poop, you dont think people will be upset? Second bolded: thats fine with me, If these people call themselves "leaders" they are not acting like it
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 20, 2022 9:09:26 GMT -5
This is the part I never understand . For every guy you pick up at the deadline, you must cut, trade, or send down one of the guys currently on the roster. Is it only losing popular players that bothers these guys? exactly my point, these "players" complained that Bloom did not go all in at the deadline because he believed at that time in the team he currently had, uh, hello? these players realize that if he had went all in, more of them would have been cut or traded right? would they have complained that they went all in and traded some of the players currently on the roster?
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Post by incandenza on Sept 20, 2022 10:01:13 GMT -5
Then they should blame themselves. They played like dog poop the entire season. Perhaps if they played better we would be in playoff contention I mean just for starters how many times has the “heart” of the order (JDM/XANDER/Devers) come up empty in the clutch this season? Those three alone are paid how much? Sorry, but who cares what they are paid ? The contracts were negotiated by 2 parties and that really isn't relevant. There have been degrees of underperformance, so it is fair to be critical there. However, that is the difficulty of playing at a Pro level, everyone understands that can happen. I don't take the players reactions with a grain of salt. It appears to be a continuation of some of the Bogey talk around the All-Star break. There is bound to be some hostile carryover towards management when good friends on the team get released. I don't think that should be surprising, whatever the context of their quotes. And releasing a guy, who is obviously well liked, with 3 Weeks left in a losing season is really kind of shortsighted and stupid, IMO. It has a transactional vibe that feels unnecessary to me. Will they clean house ? All depends on who is doing the cleaning. Maybe the players will be cleaning house with Ownership and Mgt and finding other places to play. One thing i am pretty certain about, if Bloom let's guys go because they voice their feeling about positive clubhouse guys getting released, then he is in even more trouble than I think he is in to build a contending club. "If Bloom throws babies into volcanoes as part of some neo-pagan death cult, then he is in even more trouble than I think he is in to build a contending club."
Yes, if he does this totally irrational and self-destructive thing, which is completely hypothetical and for which there is absolutely no evidence, then we might be worried about the direction of the organization.
If anyone is curious on the team's actual thinking, rather than engaging in unfounded speculation or playing it up into some dull soap opera, Bloom explains it all in the interview that's posted in the gameday thread.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 20, 2022 12:43:18 GMT -5
Did anyone else feel awkward when reading that two white American guys were complaining about losing the leadership of three white American guys?
With Xander (Aruban) unhappy about losing the leadership of Vazquez (Puerto Rican), which is far more understandable in my opinion, it makes me wonder if there's a strong white/latin or American/non-American split within the clubhouse. Or maybe that's fairly common throughout baseball?
I guess it mainly hit me when reading about Renfroe who was only around for a year or Schwarber who wasn't even around for half of a season.
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Post by patford on Sept 20, 2022 12:55:31 GMT -5
They absolutely should dump players who are attempting to hurt the organization by telling the world Boston is not a place anyone would want to play.
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Post by patford on Sept 20, 2022 12:58:44 GMT -5
This is the part I never understand . For every guy you pick up at the deadline, you must cut, trade, or send down one of the guys currently on the roster. Is it only losing popular players that bothers these guys? Also sends the message that players who are not cut or traded are what? Not good guys?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 20, 2022 13:05:03 GMT -5
The Red Sox are “cleaning house” but I don’t think this story has anything to do with it. The team just wasn’t very good so you best believe many moves are coming.
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Post by worldbfree on Sept 20, 2022 13:12:07 GMT -5
This is the part I never understand . For every guy you pick up at the deadline, you must cut, trade, or send down one of the guys currently on the roster. Is it only losing popular players that bothers these guys? exactly my point, these "players" complained that Bloom did not go all in at the deadline because he believed at that time in the team he currently had, uh, hello? these players realize that if he had went all in, more of them would have been cut or traded right? would they have complained that they went all in and traded some of the players currently on the roster? Which players complained about more trades not happening? I remember Bogaerts questioning why CV was traded at all. Most players don't like to see well regarded teammates leave.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 20, 2022 13:26:26 GMT -5
Did anyone else feel awkward when reading that two white American guys were complaining about losing the leadership of three white American guys? With Xander (Aruban) unhappy about losing the leadership of Vazquez (Puerto Rican), which is far more understandable in my opinion, it makes me wonder if there's a strong white/latin or American/non-American split within the clubhouse. Or maybe that's fairly common throughout baseball? I guess it mainly hit me when reading about Renfroe who was only around for a year or Schwarber who wasn't even around for half of a season. Given Hill is helping out Bello with a CB I don’t think there is a Latin/American divide probably more a position players/pitchers divide but who knows when you have similar social, economic and cultural backgrounds I think naturally they would gravitate towards each other and seems pretty normal around baseball.
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