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2022-2023 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by levi on Dec 6, 2022 21:17:33 GMT -5
I like this for Philly. Underrated starter. I thought for sure Eovaldi would be the next one signing. 4/72 is too rich for Walker though
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 6, 2022 21:18:49 GMT -5
The Red Sox needed a RH power bat, and they're not getting Judge or Correa, so..... the options beyond Haninger are not really exciting. I think the cost for Haniger was reasonable given the free agent market cost. And the Sox are planning to sign 9 off them? Maybe they are seriously considering Rafaela in RF on opening day?
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 6, 2022 22:35:52 GMT -5
Well, several top FA's still available (Judge, Correa, Xander, Swanson, Nimmo, Rodon, Senga) but the next level of Plan B options is disappearing The Red Sox needed a RH power bat, and they're not getting Judge or Correa, so.....the options beyond Haninger are not really exciting. I think the cost for Haniger was reasonable given the free agent market cost. Edit: Misread your comment. There is no reason to rule out the Sox getting Correa. Unlike Haniger he's a perfect fit on this roster.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2022 22:38:33 GMT -5
The Red Sox needed a RH power bat, and they're not getting Judge or Correa, so.....the options beyond Haninger are not really exciting. I think the cost for Haniger was reasonable given the free agent market cost. I agree, but I don't think Haniger or Verdugo should play RF in Fenway, so I don't think Haniger would have much of a positional home on the Red Sox. From what I hear this gentleman Reynolds might be able to, though. Maybe we should go after him. I'd prefer not to give up top prospects. Having Hosmer or Dalbec around doesn't make me want the Sox to part with Casas. They need Bello. Mayer is not a guy I'd give up and Bleis has a shot at being better than all of them. Outside of those four, sure. But of course the Pirates aren't going to do that. It sounds like the Mariners are engaged with the Pirates and Kelenic is possibly on the table.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2022 22:42:56 GMT -5
The Red Sox needed a RH power bat, and they're not getting Judge or Correa, so.....the options beyond Haninger are not really exciting. I think the cost for Haniger was reasonable given the free agent market cost. Edit: Misread your comment. There is no reason to rule out the Sox getting Correa. Unlike Haniger he's a perfect fit on this roster. Then you better root for the Yankees to sign Judge because if the Giants sign him they won't have a huge hole in their pocket which they'd probably use on Correa. To me Correa replaces Xander but at a much higher cost. Yes he's better defensively, but in my offseason hopes I want X back PLUS a power hitting RF outfielder (or a DH would suffice as well). How does Correa by himself make that work. He doesn't play the outfield and the Sox certainly need outfield help. And DH help potentially as well. I don't see the Red Sox spending 350 million on Correa. If they would spend 350 million, I would rather they have spent that money on Mookie, to be honest with you.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 6, 2022 22:47:10 GMT -5
I agree, but I don't think Haniger or Verdugo should play RF in Fenway, so I don't think Haniger would have much of a positional home on the Red Sox. From what I hear this gentleman Reynolds might be able to, though. Maybe we should go after him. I'd prefer not to give up top prospects. Having Hosmer or Dalbec around doesn't make me want the Sox to part with Casas. They need Bello. Mayer is not a guy I'd give up and Bleis has a shot at being better than all of them. Outside of those four, sure. But of course the Pirates aren't going to do that. It sounds like the Mariners are engaged with the Pirates and Kelenic is possibly on the table. If I'm the Pirates, I would rather have Casas than Kelenic.
If I'm the Red Sox, I would rather have Reynolds than Casas.
Who knows how the Pirates feel about Casas.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 6, 2022 22:49:49 GMT -5
I like this for Philly. Underrated starter. I thought for sure Eovaldi would be the next one signing. 4/72 is too rich for Walker though Everyone is clearly too rich for Boston.
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Post by bosox904 on Dec 6, 2022 22:55:21 GMT -5
4/72 is too rich for Walker though Everyone is clearly too rich for Boston. Everyone but the players they've signed, clearly.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 6, 2022 23:20:06 GMT -5
Edit: Misread your comment. There is no reason to rule out the Sox getting Correa. Unlike Haniger he's a perfect fit on this roster. Then you better root for the Yankees to sign Judge because if the Giants sign him they won't have a huge hole in their pocket which they'd probably use on Correa. To me Correa replaces Xander but at a much higher cost. Yes he's better defensively, but in my offseason hopes I want X back PLUS a power hitting RF outfielder (or a DH would suffice as well). How does Correa by himself make that work. He doesn't play the outfield and the Sox certainly need outfield help. And DH help potentially as well. I don't see the Red Sox spending 350 million on Correa. If they would spend 350 million, I would rather they have spent that money on Mookie, to be honest with you. What makes you think the Giants are more capable of spending on Correa than the Red Sox regardless of what happens to Judge? Yes, they have more room under the tax. That doesn't mean they're going to pay every free agent silly money and they still need to flesh out the rest of their roster just like we do. It's not going to be the Sox trying to sign Correa for $75 million AAV and the Giants swooping in with their extra $30 million in room under the tax to tempt him away lol.
Correa doesn't make your plan work by himself, but the Sox have an equally massive hole at SS and the FA class is much better at SS. If Correa signs for $350 million, the Giants can have him. I'd rather pursue X even at a bit of a price premium. Mookie would have signed for $400+ without COVID, and regardless we didn't have money to spend when he was hitting free agency. He'd be very useful for the roster right now as the Sox definitely do need an outfielder, but I digress. At any rate, that OF doesn't specifically need to be a RH power bat. The roster is currently set up like this:
C: R/L 1B: L (power)
2B: R (power)
SS: ?
3B: L (power)
LF: L
CF: R (moderate power)
RF: ? DH: R/L
The likely SS FAs are all RHH, so if we assume we sign a power righty to play there and leave out RF for now, this lineup would have 5R, 3L against LHP and 5L, 3R against RHP. Especially given that Refsnyder is a righty and could get more starts against LHP, I don't think a RF signing even needs to be a RHH. Even with a LHH RF, we could still run out a lineup of all righties except for the lefties we want playing daily anyway: Devers, Verdugo, (likely) Casa OF free agent class is terrible and there is no one there worth spending on that would preclude us from flinging money at a SS. This is why I think it makes sense to try to trade for a RF. The salary cost would likely be modest, allowing us to spend on pitching and at SS, and the poor FA class means it's basically the only way to pick up someone worth having. I was banging the Nimmo drum during the regular season, but now that the Sox went over the tax and the pick penalties are more severe for signing a QO FA, I'm not expecting us to be the high bidder... I've rambled enough lol
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2022 23:20:34 GMT -5
I'd prefer not to give up top prospects. Having Hosmer or Dalbec around doesn't make me want the Sox to part with Casas. They need Bello. Mayer is not a guy I'd give up and Bleis has a shot at being better than all of them. Outside of those four, sure. But of course the Pirates aren't going to do that. It sounds like the Mariners are engaged with the Pirates and Kelenic is possibly on the table. If I'm the Pirates, I would rather have Casas than Kelenic. If I'm the Red Sox, I would rather have Reynolds than Casas. Who knows how the Pirates feel about Casas.
I'd rather have Casas for the next six years than Reynolds for the next 3 if Casas is healthy.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 6, 2022 23:23:13 GMT -5
If I'm the Pirates, I would rather have Casas than Kelenic. If I'm the Red Sox, I would rather have Reynolds than Casas. Who knows how the Pirates feel about Casas.
I'd rather have Casas for the next six years than Reynolds for the next 3 if Casas is healthy. To each their own I guess. Casas's SP rating is 5.5, meaning median outcome of an above average regular. I'll take three years of an All Star RF over six years of a prospect whose median outcome is an above average 1B, especially considering this team has a gaping hole in RF and another startable 1B option making the league minimum for the next three seasons.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2022 23:30:04 GMT -5
Then you better root for the Yankees to sign Judge because if the Giants sign him they won't have a huge hole in their pocket which they'd probably use on Correa. To me Correa replaces Xander but at a much higher cost. Yes he's better defensively, but in my offseason hopes I want X back PLUS a power hitting RF outfielder (or a DH would suffice as well). How does Correa by himself make that work. He doesn't play the outfield and the Sox certainly need outfield help. And DH help potentially as well. I don't see the Red Sox spending 350 million on Correa. If they would spend 350 million, I would rather they have spent that money on Mookie, to be honest with you. What makes you think the Giants are more capable of spending on Correa than the Red Sox regardless of what happens to Judge? Yes, they have more room under the tax. That doesn't mean they're going to pay every free agent silly money and they still need to flesh out the rest of their roster just like we do. It's not going to be the Sox trying to sign Correa for $75 million AAV and the Giants swooping in with their extra $30 million in room under the tax to tempt him away lol.
Correa doesn't make your plan work by himself, but the Sox have an equally massive hole at SS and the FA class is much better at SS. If Correa signs for $350 million, the Giants can have him. I'd rather pursue X even at a bit of a price premium. Mookie would have signed for $400+ without COVID, and regardless we didn't have money to spend when he was hitting free agency. He'd be very useful for the roster right now as the Sox definitely do need an outfielder, but I digress. At any rate, that OF doesn't specifically need to be a RH power bat. The roster is currently set up like this: C: R/L 1B: L (power)
2B: R (power)
SS: ?
3B: L (power)
LF: L
CF: R (moderate power)
RF: ? DH: R/L The likely SS FAs are all RHH, so if we assume we sign a power righty to play there and leave out RF for now, this lineup would have 5R, 3L against LHP and 5L, 3R against RHP. Especially given that Refsnyder is a righty and could get more starts against LHP, I don't think a RF signing even needs to be a RHH. Even with a LHH RF, we could still run out a lineup of all righties except for the lefties we want playing daily anyway: Devers, Verdugo, (likely) Casa OF free agent class is terrible and there is no one there worth spending on that would preclude us from flinging money at a SS. This is why I think it makes sense to try to trade for a RF. The salary cost would likely be modest, allowing us to spend on pitching and at SS, and the poor FA class means it's basically the only way to pick up someone worth having. I was banging the Nimmo drum during the regular season, but now that the Sox went over the tax and the pick penalties are more severe for signing a QO FA, I'm not expecting us to be the high bidder... I've rambled enough lol
I've seen nothing indicating the Red Sox having the stomach to commit 350 million to one player. The Giants already have a 360 million offer for Judge. I'm surprised you're not telling me that the Sox can go get Judge as they need a power hitting RH RF last I heard. But ok, so you have them in on Correa. For the record I'd rather they spend 200 million on X than exceed 300 million on Correa. I think X is a better hitter. Obviously he's not the fielder Correa is but they only need X at SS to bridge until Mayer is ready. They don't need to spend all that additional money on Correa, not when Mayer will be up in a few years if not sooner and X costs a lot less. I don't really care to see the Sox trade from their best minor league assets to get a RF because they couldn't adequately replace Hunter Renfroe.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2022 23:35:00 GMT -5
I'd rather have Casas for the next six years than Reynolds for the next 3 if Casas is healthy. To each their own I guess. Casas's SP rating is 5.5, meaning median outcome of an above average regular. I'll take three years of an All Star RF over six years of a prospect whose median outcome is an above average 1B, especially considering this team has a gaping hole in RF and another startable 1B option making the league minimum for the next three seasons. We'll have to agree to disagree re: Casas future value. I think he'll be in the upper 3rd of AL 1b with some all star appearances. I love his plate discipline and think he'll hit for a high enough average that his OBP will be high and his SA will allow him to have some .850 - .900 OPS type seasons. I get that you dont agree. That's fine but you can see why I have a different approach.
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 6, 2022 23:59:12 GMT -5
What makes you think the Giants are more capable of spending on Correa than the Red Sox regardless of what happens to Judge? Yes, they have more room under the tax. That doesn't mean they're going to pay every free agent silly money and they still need to flesh out the rest of their roster just like we do. It's not going to be the Sox trying to sign Correa for $75 million AAV and the Giants swooping in with their extra $30 million in room under the tax to tempt him away lol.
Correa doesn't make your plan work by himself, but the Sox have an equally massive hole at SS and the FA class is much better at SS. If Correa signs for $350 million, the Giants can have him. I'd rather pursue X even at a bit of a price premium. Mookie would have signed for $400+ without COVID, and regardless we didn't have money to spend when he was hitting free agency. He'd be very useful for the roster right now as the Sox definitely do need an outfielder, but I digress. At any rate, that OF doesn't specifically need to be a RH power bat. The roster is currently set up like this: C: R/L 1B: L (power)
2B: R (power)
SS: ?
3B: L (power)
LF: L
CF: R (moderate power)
RF: ? DH: R/L The likely SS FAs are all RHH, so if we assume we sign a power righty to play there and leave out RF for now, this lineup would have 5R, 3L against LHP and 5L, 3R against RHP. Especially given that Refsnyder is a righty and could get more starts against LHP, I don't think a RF signing even needs to be a RHH. Even with a LHH RF, we could still run out a lineup of all righties except for the lefties we want playing daily anyway: Devers, Verdugo, (likely) Casa OF free agent class is terrible and there is no one there worth spending on that would preclude us from flinging money at a SS. This is why I think it makes sense to try to trade for a RF. The salary cost would likely be modest, allowing us to spend on pitching and at SS, and the poor FA class means it's basically the only way to pick up someone worth having. I was banging the Nimmo drum during the regular season, but now that the Sox went over the tax and the pick penalties are more severe for signing a QO FA, I'm not expecting us to be the high bidder... I've rambled enough lol
I've seen nothing indicating the Red Sox having the stomach to commit 350 million to one player. The Giants already have a 360 million offer for Judge. I'm surprised you're not telling me that the Sox can go get Judge as they need a power hitting RH RF last I heard. But ok, so you have them in on Correa. For the record I'd rather they spend 200 million on X than exceed 300 million on Correa. I think X is a better hitter. Obviously he's not the fielder Correa is but they only need X at SS to bridge until Mayer is ready. They don't need to spend all that additional money on Correa, not when Mayer will be up in a few years if not sooner and X costs a lot less. I don't really care to see the Sox trade from their best minor league assets to get a RF because they couldn't adequately replace Hunter Renfroe. And your evidence that they wouldn't? Or that Correa will sign for that much in the first place?
The Sox should not go after Judge because 1) whoever signs him is going to be screwed; I give it an 80% chance that contract is doomed by injuries, and 2) they have a lot of holes to fill.
X has been a better hitter than Correa exactly one non-2020 season in his career, and that season Correa missed like 60 games with an injury. Signing either would make sense for this team, and signing either may well happen.
You don't make decisions at the MLB level based on a prospect that is at least a couple years away. If he rises quickly through the minors and starts banging on the door while there's a logjam in the infield, you can either trade a ML piece to clear a spot, or trade Mayer. Either way it's a fabulous problem to have.
If the Sox are trading their best minor league assets, it will not be to simply replace Renfroe.
I am getting tired of the negativity in every post and I'm going to stop replying now. If you can't help yourself, consider adding to the toxicity on Reddit or Twitter instead.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 7, 2022 1:02:04 GMT -5
2/15 for Matt Strahm is something. I'll take 1/2 with an option for Joely Rodriguez, thanks.
Are we at the point where Matt Barnes has surplus value yet?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 7, 2022 1:17:58 GMT -5
Owners clearly have money to spend. which infers that owning a baseball team is a profitable venture. The fact that guys are apparently foregoing equal or more money to not sign with the Sox is an alarming trend. That was not the case for a long time. I really hope it isn't for reasons that have to do with our market or our management.
Maybe these numbers are surprising, or maybe there is a misunderstanding of the FA market. The fact that Bloom is failing to sign these people, who he has apparently targeted, makes me very nervous.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,665
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Post by cdj on Dec 7, 2022 1:30:37 GMT -5
4/68 for Taillon from the Cubs
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 7, 2022 1:32:24 GMT -5
Jameson Taillon 4/68 to the Cubs
Say what you want about the market changing, these contracts are going to be regretted and it won't take long.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 7, 2022 1:46:33 GMT -5
Jameson Taillon 4/68 to the Cubs Say what you want about the market changing, these contracts are going to be regretted and it won't take long. i am curious as to the regrettable part. Is the new 17 million a year or 4 year (whichever component may be considered more risky) contract going to hamstring the club's budget ? It may be viewed as irrational, not saying your wrong, or maybe teams have started to re-adjust to new market conditions. Something is going on which is counter to the vast majority of posts on this site which say, Good Lord, that is too much money (again, not singling you out)
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2022 2:28:30 GMT -5
Jameson Taillon 4/68 to the Cubs Say what you want about the market changing, these contracts are going to be regretted and it won't take long. i am curious as to the regrettable part. Is the new 17 million a year or 4 year (whichever component may be considered more risky) contract going to hamstring the club's budget ? It may be viewed as irrational, not saying your wrong, or maybe teams have started to re-adjust to new market conditions. Something is going on which is counter to the vast majority of posts on this site which say, Good Lord, that is too much money (again, not singling you out) Because salary costs are getting higher, more teams are going to start having a harder time staying under the salary cap. It`s still hard to believe they didn`t raise the cap much because salaries are going to rise. In a few years I think we will see teams having a hard time getting under. If top players are going to start getting $40 mil a year, two of them will take up a third of the payroll. That`s alot of cheap players to fill out the roster. This why I`m all for letting the kids start developing and getting a taste of the big leagues. I think adding pitching thru free agency is going to be the way the Sox go for now. Hopefully the Sox will have Devers and Story left when the kids start arriving and we will be able to add free agents.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 7, 2022 2:47:00 GMT -5
Because salary costs are getting higher, more teams are going to start having a harder time staying under the salary cap. It`s still hard to believe they didn`t raise the cap much because salaries are going to rise. In a few years I think we will see teams having a hard time getting under. If top players are going to start getting $40 mil a year, two of them will take up a third of the payroll. That`s alot of cheap players to fill out the roster. This why I`m all for letting the kids start developing and getting a taste of the big leagues. I think adding pitching thru free agency is going to be the way the Sox go for now. Hopefully the Sox will have Devers and Story left when the kids start arriving and we will be able to add free agents. yes, they are going up. What is the reason for that ? Irrationality, more money in owner's pockets, more certainty with the new CBA being signed ? Could be any number of reasons. I am all for cost controlled talent, but it is hard to fill a roster with just player development. In a competitive environment like this, your just gonna have to spend money to get good players. If that calculus has changed in this market, then it is Bloom's job to make the adjustment and figure out the sweet spot. Good CEO's see that, they hire accountants for the bottom line. The probable outcome of not being able to gauge that properly, is paying more money for not as good players. I think the salary cap issue is still important, but teams may be willing to go over if they have the money to do it.
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Post by keninten on Dec 7, 2022 3:19:37 GMT -5
The 10 year contracts are really going to suck in a few years. It may have helped early in the contract but to pay a player past his peek to be average is going to hurt worse than when he signed it. The Rangers and Phillies could be in big trouble in a few years. This is why I`m hoping the yankees sign Judge for 10 years at big money.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 7, 2022 6:31:55 GMT -5
The 10 year contracts are really going to suck in a few years. It may have helped early in the contract but to pay a player past his peek to be average is going to hurt worse than when he signed it. The Rangers and Phillies could be in big trouble in a few years. This is why I`m hoping the yankees sign Judge for 10 years at big money. Paying that kind of money to a guy in his late 30s is going to be absolutely difficult to stomach.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 7, 2022 7:39:12 GMT -5
2/15 for Matt Strahm is something. I'll take 1/2 with an option for Joely Rodriguez, thanks. Are we at the point where Matt Barnes has surplus value yet? Barnes has no value. Which is better than the negative value he had a couple of months ago. So if you take Kiké, Martin, and Rodriguez into consideration for Blooms comments about adding 7 8 or 9 people for 2023, then we're looking at a few more signings. So far, the Sox financial commitments in the last week have been less than any of these secondary pitchers that signed. That's not a bad thing. Bloom is stretching his dollar bills and making the Sox very fiscally responsible and risk averse.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 7, 2022 7:40:51 GMT -5
I'd prefer not to give up top prospects. Having Hosmer or Dalbec around doesn't make me want the Sox to part with Casas. They need Bello. Mayer is not a guy I'd give up and Bleis has a shot at being better than all of them. Outside of those four, sure. But of course the Pirates aren't going to do that. It sounds like the Mariners are engaged with the Pirates and Kelenic is possibly on the table. If I'm the Pirates, I would rather have Casas than Kelenic.
If I'm the Red Sox, I would rather have Reynolds than Casas.
Who knows how the Pirates feel about Casas.
The tweet also mentioned the Mariners top 2 prospects as well as kelenic. Kelenic probably doesn't have a ton of value right now with his struggles in the majors so far. Casas for Reynolds straight up sure, Casas plus another top 5 prospect no thanks.
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