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Evaluating the Front Office and Ownership
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Post by rico6 on Jan 20, 2023 21:17:16 GMT -5
I think booing Chaim is not fair, but I think the ownership deserves some hate because Chaim got here with a "trade Mookie" notification and probably was told to not go crazy on Xander. Speculation of course, but Chaim doesn't deserve the hate he gets. It's all on the ownership. That said, let a person speak in an event like this lol. My exact thoughts. This guy is taking time out of his day to be transparent and accountable to the fan base, at least let him speak Unfortunately, he's probably going to hear more of this if the 2023 team is a below .500 team. A lot of fans of big market teams want to win every year and don't look at rebuilds that are needed to impact future years. Bloom said he wants to build an organization that consistently is in the post season. I think a lot fans don't see the evidence of that when you're plugging holes with players that aren't star players and they see star players go elsewhere. Hopefully, we will see his plan for a consistent winner take shape over the next two years.
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Post by manfred on Jan 20, 2023 21:18:31 GMT -5
People are making a bit much of this. We *did* hear their answers. They were hardly driven off the stage. But rarely do people get to express their feelings about the FO… and following a last place season and losibg X, I think a bit of feedback is warranted.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 20, 2023 21:20:53 GMT -5
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 20, 2023 21:23:08 GMT -5
People are making a bit much of this. We *did* hear their answers. They were hardly driven off the stage. But rarely do people get to express their feelings about the FO… and following a last place season and losibg X, I think a bit of feedback is warranted. Disagree. People have all day every day to express their opinion in whatever form on twitter, talk radio, forums like this. But at an event like this, all the people who went because they love the Red Sox and wanted to hear from the leadership and have a good time had their experience worsened by those interrupting the speakers by screaming in the other spectators ears. There are fair things I think to boo at, but some of the reaction was over the top and to the detriment of their own cause.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 20, 2023 21:26:12 GMT -5
Somewhat impressive (per twitter) - apparently majority of attendees were clapping at the end for Chaim which is quite a turn around. Chaim is a legit baseball guy. I think he was given a rough job with a fanbase that misses how much is up for the GM to do. That (possibly urban legend) talk he and Cora had at the top of a freezing building gives me this Batman vibes. Dude's a dog.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jan 20, 2023 21:30:18 GMT -5
People are making a bit much of this. We *did* hear their answers. They were hardly driven off the stage. But rarely do people get to express their feelings about the FO… and following a last place season and losibg X, I think a bit of feedback is warranted. Disagree. People have all day every day to express their opinion in whatever form on twitter, talk radio, forums like this. But at an event like this, all the people who went because they love the Red Sox and wanted to hear from the leadership and have a good time had their experience worsened by those interrupting the speakers by screaming in the other spectators ears. There are fair things I think to boo at, but some of the reaction was over the top and to the detriment of their own cause. Maybe the paying fans went, not to hear ownership...but to boo them.
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Post by manfred on Jan 20, 2023 21:30:27 GMT -5
People are making a bit much of this. We *did* hear their answers. They were hardly driven off the stage. But rarely do people get to express their feelings about the FO… and following a last place season and losibg X, I think a bit of feedback is warranted. Disagree. People have all day every day to express their opinion in whatever form on twitter, talk radio, forums like this. But at an event like this, all the people who went because they love the Red Sox and wanted to hear from the leadership and have a good time had their experience worsened by those interrupting the speakers by screaming in the other spectators ears. There are fair things I think to boo at, but some of the reaction was over the top and to the detriment of their own cause. This is the one chance to directly address this group. I suspect the booers love the Sox as much as the rest. The implication is loving the Sox means loving ownership and FO. Again, the main thing is that I read about this before watching the video, so I was surprised by how UNdisruptive it was. A few people were barking. I think a professional can handle a spot of heckling.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 20, 2023 21:36:39 GMT -5
People are making a bit much of this. We *did* hear their answers. They were hardly driven off the stage. But rarely do people get to express their feelings about the FO… and following a last place season and losibg X, I think a bit of feedback is warranted. I too listened to the video and think that while there were a few renegades, and I disavow their activity (and felt bad for him), he was able to get his points across and that is how these public events go. Not everyone is going to have good manners. Watch a Town Hall event for a politician and there's always a few bad actors thar hijack the event. I also applaud his professionalism, he handled it well. I like Chaim Bloom a lot. Some may say I am negative about him, but nothing could be further from the truth. He strikes me as very conscientious and has been out front and accountable for his decisions. My worry has always been whether he has been miscast as a GM for a big market club. That isn't a knock on him. A person's talents can exist in different sphere's, they don't always correlate across the whole spectrum.
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Post by patford on Jan 20, 2023 22:00:14 GMT -5
One move that hasn't been talked about much is signing Kluber. Given the amazing performances put up by several pitchers older the Kluber I doubt age is a big factor. The key will be if he can become completely healthy. He may also be able to help Houck as they share their two best pitches. I'm pretty pumped about the possibility of Kluber regaining form in a big way. Way stranger things have happened.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,662
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Post by cdj on Jan 20, 2023 22:29:54 GMT -5
One move that hasn't been talked about much is signing Kluber. Given the amazing performances put up by several pitchers older the Kluber I doubt age is a big factor. The key will be if he can become completely healthy. He may also be able to help Houck as they share their two best pitches. I'm pretty pumped about the possibility of Kluber regaining form in a big way. Way stranger things have happened. The velo won’t be coming back but I think he’s great to have around for the young pitching. Between him/Sale/and to a lesser extent Paxton there are some veteran arms who have done good things in their careers. Not bad to have around the younger guys
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Post by patford on Jan 20, 2023 22:56:46 GMT -5
One move that hasn't been talked about much is signing Kluber. Given the amazing performances put up by several pitchers older the Kluber I doubt age is a big factor. The key will be if he can become completely healthy. He may also be able to help Houck as they share their two best pitches. I'm pretty pumped about the possibility of Kluber regaining form in a big way. Way stranger things have happened. The velo won’t be coming back but I think he’s great to have around for the young pitching. Between him/Sale/and to a lesser extent Paxton there are some veteran arms who have done good things in their careers. Not bad to have around the younger guys That isn't a given. Consider Verlander. Kluber had a broken arm due to a batted ball and two shoulder strains which did not require surgery. Odds are he will not win a third Cy Young but it took Verlander around two years to regain his old form. Kluber is three years younger than Verlander. As you say even if he eats some innings and has an ERA in the range of 4.50 he will be a good influence and at least he walks almost no one.
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Post by manfred on Jan 20, 2023 23:37:01 GMT -5
So they say Kiké is SS. I guess Duvall in CF. So the lineup is
C McWong 1b Casas 2b Arroyo 3b Devers SS Kiké LF Yoshida CF Duvall RF Verdugo DH Turner
It does not sound like any big changes are coming (Cora calls it the “one yard line”).
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,662
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Post by cdj on Jan 21, 2023 0:04:22 GMT -5
The velo won’t be coming back but I think he’s great to have around for the young pitching. Between him/Sale/and to a lesser extent Paxton there are some veteran arms who have done good things in their careers. Not bad to have around the younger guys That isn't a given. Consider Verlander. Kluber had a broken arm due to a batted ball and two shoulder strains which did not require surgery. Odds are he will not win a third Cy Young but it took Verlander around two years to regain his old form. Kluber is three years younger than Verlander. As you say even if he eats some innings and has an ERA in the range of 4.50 he will be a good influence and at least he walks almost no one. He’s had some shoulder injuries and being 36 I don’t see him averaging 90 again. I’d love to be pleasantly surprised. I don’t think he needs to if he pitches like he did last year. It’s not like he was a major velo guy when he was a perennial cy young award contender
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Post by rico6 on Jan 21, 2023 0:14:17 GMT -5
So they say Kiké is SS. I guess Duvall in CF. So the lineup is C McWong 1b Casas 2b Arroyo 3b Devers SS Kiké LF Yoshida CF Duvall RF Verdugo DH Turner It does not sound like any big changes are coming (Cora calls it the “one yard line”). Nothing to worry about here. As Lou Gorman once said, “The sun will rise, the sun will set, and I’ll have lunch.’’
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 21, 2023 11:00:36 GMT -5
So they say Kiké is SS. I guess Duvall in CF. So the lineup is C McWong 1b Casas 2b Arroyo 3b Devers SS Kiké LF Yoshida CF Duvall RF Verdugo DH Turner It does not sound like any big changes are coming (Cora calls it the “one yard line”). That lineup is yikes. 4 players (catcher position, Hernandez, Duvall, Arroyo) who will struggle to get to 100 wRC+. Verdugo is almost in that same camp the way he has been the last two seasons Then Yoshida is who knows. Maybe way over maybe under, no one can confidently say. Worth the gamble but the team is in huge trouble if him and Casas struggle
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 21, 2023 14:52:15 GMT -5
I do feel bad to a degree for what happened with Bloom. If he's getting booed because the Sox don't have Mookie or because they're raising ticket prices, then that's more or less on Henry. It's still a passionate market. Bloom has made some good moves and some bad in the last 3 years.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jan 21, 2023 14:55:18 GMT -5
Idk how one can view that as double talk, especially when the bruins pulled off the exact same thing in a harder sport to do it in (rebuild on the fly). Also what was 2020 if not a rebuild year? they were two games from the WS. People keep conveniently ignoring that just because they had brutal injury luck last year. And I find it pathetic to defend people lacking basic civility. Sure, boo them when they come on if you want. At least let Bloom talk without being a total 75 IQ troglodyte True. Sweeney got very very lucky this year though. He is not a good GM at all.
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Post by vaulter on Jan 21, 2023 15:36:36 GMT -5
Idk how one can view that as double talk, especially when the bruins pulled off the exact same thing in a harder sport to do it in (rebuild on the fly). Also what was 2020 if not a rebuild year? they were two games from the WS. People keep conveniently ignoring that just because they had brutal injury luck last year. And I find it pathetic to defend people lacking basic civility. Sure, boo them when they come on if you want. At least let Bloom talk without being a total 75 IQ troglodyte True. Sweeney got very very lucky this year though. He is not a good GM at all. Not to get too off topic, but while Sweeney has a pretty bad history when it comes to the draft, his trades have mostly paid off. The coaching change in the offseason probably helped too.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 21, 2023 16:36:25 GMT -5
Again there is also the part where John Henry said baseball players are expensive so we have to charge the highest ticket prices in the league. We also have one of the smallest ballparks in baseball. Which contributes to the high ticket prices Its literally a question with no good answer. I love the Fens and it's rich history but it's not the Sistine Chapel. I've been advocating for building a new 45,000 seat ballyard since 2005. One that, say, has all the seats facing the field with no obstructed views.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 21, 2023 16:39:25 GMT -5
... urged on by constant, unending, and largely uninformed commentary from a media that cares little about real ideas and much about noise. It's who we are these days. The media has also been the ones driving the "make the games" shorter bandwagon. They are a bunch of spoiled children who want to go to dinner and hate that they're not taken seriously by their friends from J-school because they're in "sports." Then again, given the quality of news coming out of their friends from J-school these days, they should all be embarrassed.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 21, 2023 16:44:13 GMT -5
Idk how one can view that as double talk, especially when the bruins pulled off the exact same thing in a harder sport to do it in (rebuild on the fly). Also what was 2020 if not a rebuild year? they were two games from the WS. People keep conveniently ignoring that just because they had brutal injury luck last year. And I find it pathetic to defend people lacking basic civility. Sure, boo them when they come on if you want. At least let Bloom talk without being a total 75 IQ troglodyte I agree with this with regard to people's manners. Sure, boo when they come on, but let people speak. As for being two games away, I think the resentment is part of the recency bias that the media, social media and our cultural betters in the entertainment industry have worked so hard to ingrain into our society in the last 6-8 years. When everything is predicated on hot takes, knee-jerk reactions, bad reporting and bad memes, this is what you get. Luckily, the schools are teaching patience, critical thinking and analytical skills. Oh wait...
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 21, 2023 16:54:26 GMT -5
Idk how one can view that as double talk, especially when the bruins pulled off the exact same thing in a harder sport to do it in (rebuild on the fly). Also what was 2020 if not a rebuild year? they were two games from the WS. People keep conveniently ignoring that just because they had brutal injury luck last year. And I find it pathetic to defend people lacking basic civility. Sure, boo them when they come on if you want. At least let Bloom talk without being a total 75 IQ troglodyte I agree with this with regard to people's manners. Sure, boo when they come on, but let people speak. As for being two games away, I think the resentment is part of the recency bias that the media, social media and our cultural betters in the entertainment industry have worked so hard to ingrain into our society in the last 6-8 years. When everything is predicated on hot takes, knee-jerk reactions, bad reporting and bad memes, this is what you get. Luckily, the schools are teaching patience, critical thinking and analytical skills. Oh wait... A metaphorical boatload of irony in that last sentence…
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Post by patford on Jan 21, 2023 22:12:36 GMT -5
On Twitter James M. Dunne (Sox Prospects Managing Editor) tweets concerning Bloom:
"And then Bloom did a poor job either keeping that core in place or getting value for it."
In my opinion this is an unfair appraisal. Betts clearly wasn't going to stay in Boston. People will argue that but it seems plainly obvious. The situation was compounded because Betts was basically a rental. Further the contract he ended up signing with the Dodgers may well end up looking really bad. The return for Betts looks bad now but that is what happens with prospects. Hardly anyone would have predicted what has happened with Downs. In fact if I recall Downs was seen as more of a higher floor than he was a potential All-Star. More proof that even highly thought of prospects are probably going to bomb. Verdugo has been pretty good and may yet impress more than he has. Wong has been about what was expected maybe a bit better. Benintendi was completely lost and what he has done since is not very impressive. A Gold Glove in LF is kind of like first place is a fall on your face contest. If Gold Gloves weren't awarded by position a LF would never make the top 20. He has hit for a bit of an average but with no power to speak of. After hitting .254 with close to zero power the Yankees made little or no effort to keep him. Bloom again gambled on prospects who haven't turned out although Winckowski may prove to be useful. A number of people here feel the Red Sox never wanted to sign a long term deal with Bogaerts. That is my impression as well. The mistake Bloom made there was not trading Bogaerts at the deadline but it's highly debatable as to what they might have gotten in return. And of course at the deadline the Sox were in Wild Card contention with several key pieces due to return. In the end the Sox losing Bogaerts is no different from the Dodgers losing Trea Turner and Corey Seager getting nothing in return. Turner and Seager are both younger than Bogaerts as well as being better hitters and better fielders. The loss of both Turner and Seager may well have something to do with the Betts contract the Dodgers are saddled with.
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Post by manfred on Jan 21, 2023 22:24:30 GMT -5
On Twitter James M. Dunne (Sox Prospects Managing Editor) tweets concerning Bloom: "And then Bloom did a poor job either keeping that core in place or getting value for it." In my opinion this is an unfair appraisal. Betts clearly wasn't going to stay in Boston. People will argue that but it seems plainly obvious. The situation was compounded because Betts was basically a rental. Further the contract he ended up signing with the Dodgers may well end up looking really bad. The return for Betts looks bad now but that is what happens with prospects. Hardly anyone would have predicted what has happened with Downs. In fact if I recall Downs was seen as more of a higher floor than he was a potential All-Star. More proof that even highly thought of prospects are probably going to bomb. Verdugo has been pretty good and may yet impress more than he has. Wong has been about what was expected maybe a bit better. Benintendi was completely lost and what he has done since is not very impressive. A Gold Glove in LF is kind of like first place is a fall on your face contest. If Gold Gloves weren't awarded by position a LF would never make the top 20. He has hit for a bit of an average but with no power to speak of. After hitting .254 with close to zero power the Yankees made little or no effort to keep him. Bloom again gambled on prospects who haven't turned out although Winckowski may prove to be useful. A number of people here feel the Red Sox never wanted to sign a long term deal with Bogaerts. That is my impression as well. The mistake Bloom made there was not trading Bogaerts at the deadline but it's highly debatable as to what they might have gotten in return. And of course at the deadline the Sox were in Wild Card contention with several key pieces due to return. In the end the Sox losing Bogaerts is no different from the Dodgers losing Trea Turner and Corey Seager getting nothing in return. Turner and Seager are both younger than Bogaerts as well as being better hitters and better fielders. The loss of both Turner and Seager may well have something to do with the Betts contract the Dodgers are saddled with. He has demonstrably failed to keep the core in place. “Poor” is debatable depending on if you think keeping those guys was a good idea (costs included). They did poorly in return, which also seems objectively true. You can certainly make excuses — some may be legit — but the tally is poor. Incidentally, I was very down on the Betts return from say one. Downs was not even their best 2b prospect, and he’d already be traded once. He was pretty clearly overrated. But the dominant question is the first: are you willing to pay for the core. If you say no (your view of Betts’ contract is clearly a no), the rest doesn’t matter much. It is a bit of a bummer, but those guys were gone in one form or another.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jan 21, 2023 22:50:01 GMT -5
The Benny trade was inexcusable. We traded him after an awful 52 PAs in 2020 when he was 26.
It made no sense
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