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2023 Trade Deadline Thread
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 3, 2023 13:39:36 GMT -5
So would you guys have traded Rafaela for Civale? That's still a no for me. He is exactly on the line of "would understand it either way" for me. Mayer, Bleis, Anthony hard no. Rafaela and Perales coin flip. Yorke or Gonzalez, yes. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2023 13:49:28 GMT -5
So would you guys have traded Rafaela for Civale? That's still a no for me. Nope, but I don't really get the Civale interest to bein with. I'll bet they have similar 2024 ZiPS WAR projections. |
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Post by remmartin34 on Aug 3, 2023 14:04:02 GMT -5
So would you guys have traded Rafaela for Civale? That's still a no for me. Not in any universe whatsoever, based on Civale's complete track record as a pitcher (standard stats and advanced metrics). |
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Post by remmartin34 on Aug 3, 2023 14:07:19 GMT -5
Post Trade/Deadline SP Stats (players discussed as legitimate possible targets)
Marcus Stroman- On the 15 Day IL
Lucas Giolito- 2 GS, 9 IP, 12 ER, ~.420 BAA, 12.00 ERA
Dylan Cease- 1 GS, 1.2 IP, 7 ER, .483 BAA, 37.80 ERA
Max Scherzer- Not a real target, but he is SURE struggling today
Jack Flaherty – Pitches today
Aaron Civale- Pitches tomorrow
Every one of the pitchers above other than Civale were either subpar, bad, or awful over the last month and a half
Eduardo Rodriguez- 1 GS, 6 IP, 2 ER, 7 H, 5 K, 3.00 ERA
Michael Lorenzen- 1 GS, 8 IP, 2 ER, 6 H, 5 K, 2.25 ERA
(Since July 1st... 5 GS, 31.2 IP, 5 ER, WHIP 0.88, 1.42 ERA)
Alright, I recognize the overall ridiculousness of rolling these numbers out right now... but...
I had an absolute flip out about Lorenzen on deadline day, as he was the pitcher I thought fit all of Bloom's criteria for a rental, and would not have required him to give up a top-10 prospect for. Based on the prospect the Phillies traded for to get him, a comparable Sox prospect based on FV would have been a Blaze Jordan or Mikey Romero.
Based on those players being blocked (Jordan) or a ways off (Romero), and the fact that players were begging for ONE, SINGLE starting pitcher reinforcement, I would have made the move. I absolutely love Blaze Jordan, he hits baseballs 550 feet, his value could end up going way up in the next year. But my thought process is simple.. where will he fit on this roster within the next 3+ years? Further, the Red Sox have such a wealth of hitting/positional prospects, and a top-5 farm system. He is one, single prospect outside your top-10.
My questions are.. Based on the Red Sox pitching situation as of today, would you have traded a Blaze Jordan or Mikey Romero for Lorenzen as a rental? If not those guys, would there have been other prospects you would have considered trading for Lorenzen? If you wouldn't have even considered a trade for Lorenzen, what is your rationale?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 3, 2023 14:19:38 GMT -5
The leak is a little damaging to the Red Sox given prior comments about Turner being off the table. I wonder if there is some petty grudge from someone in Miami. Or, perhaps, the Marlins called asking about Turner and Mr. Bloom had no qualms about trading a 38 year old DH for a controllable starter who may project as a #3/4 or better. I mean, Turner's fun to watch and definitely a team leader, but if, as many of Mr. Bloom's acolytes say, you'll really see this team as he envisioned it in 2024, 2025 or 2026 and that's when this Ferrari will finally have 4 wheels, an engine and lots of fuel to burn, then Turner is/was expendable for a controllable asset in a position of need.  I don't disagree here. But why tell the guy that he's not getting moved then come close to moving him after the fact? Thats the type of stuff that comes back to bite you when dealing with players. Not the whole the Red Sox owe Paxton for taking a cheap deal so they shouldn't trade him. Even more messed up when you consider where Turner stands in the clubhouse and the fact Bloom wasn't on the road trip. |
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 3, 2023 14:20:45 GMT -5
So would you guys have traded Rafaela for Civale? That's still a no for me. No chance. Civale is solid. If it was Cease then sure. But not Civale. |
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 3, 2023 14:25:18 GMT -5
CHB has been mad at the Sox since 2004 destoryed half of his revenue coming in. |
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Post by pasadenasox on Aug 3, 2023 14:33:25 GMT -5
So would you guys have traded Rafaela for Civale? That's still a no for me. Nope - and I probably like Civale more than most. |
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Post by pappyman99 on Aug 3, 2023 15:26:59 GMT -5
Not sure how the Astros trading for Verlander is a brilliant move. They apparently did not want to pay him when they could have resigned him. Now they are paying him and giving up prospects. Reminds me of when everyone thought the Mets and the Padres "won" the off season. As far as the Sox go my guess is the veteran players they decided to keep (Turner, Paxton, Verdugo, Duval) the Sox want to keep next year as well. Bloom very clearly does not want to move top prospects and the large number of Rule 5 bubble types other teams probably aren't offering anything for. Take Dalbec as an example. There are said to be teams who are interested but they probably know he's behind a log jam in Boston and they can probably get him for nothing. The type of player offered for the older Sox prospects who are Rule 5 eligible are probably getting the same type of player in return. They are paying him a lot less, though, and he’s been on a tear. Yeah, the prospects, but they recognize the overall situation they are in: their WS odds fall precipitously in the next few years, two prospects or no. They are all in for ‘23-‘24. I have to say with their young rotation pieces and the likes of Peña, Alavarez, tucker and Bergman…. Etc I really don’t see the Astros going anywhere for a while. Yeah they certainly have a specific window now, but they will still have a lot of talented young pieces beyond 24 in combination with a lot of money falling off the books in 24. |
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Post by pappyman99 on Aug 3, 2023 15:30:18 GMT -5
So would you guys have traded Rafaela for Civale? That's still a no for me. Probably not because Rafaela is more useful to us playing or as part of a package for a much better starter. This off-season though, I am of the sell at the sky high for duran for a good young starter, and bring up Rafaela in his place. I honestly could see a scenario (if Yoshida goes to DH) where we have a completely new OF because of trades and FA |
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Post by ephus on Aug 3, 2023 15:38:30 GMT -5
Rosenthal says Justin Turner to Marlins was close Thank god this didn't happen. Chaim's obsession with Joey Wendle* is weird. * I have no evidence that Wendle was part of the return but I couldn't resist making this up. |
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 3, 2023 15:59:34 GMT -5
Shouldn’t we be happy bloom is looking at every single possible scenario to improve the team??
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Post by remmartin34 on Aug 3, 2023 16:10:19 GMT -5
I think that's very dependent on your idea of what improving the team entails...
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 3, 2023 16:12:24 GMT -5
I think that's very dependent on your idea of what improving the team entails... They know better than we do, regardless of how smart we think we are. |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 3, 2023 16:17:42 GMT -5
I think that's very dependent on your idea of what improving the team entails... They know better than we do, regardless of how smart we think we are. It actually also isn’t dependent on that at all. Regardless of whether you (generalizing) agree with his moves being best for the team or not, the idea that he is willing to at least explore any option should be viewed as a positive. I think there may be some negatives that stem from that, but still. |
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Post by remmartin34 on Aug 3, 2023 16:22:29 GMT -5
I'm not saying that I know 1/1000 of what they do. However, GMs/CBOs/managers do fail and get fired if they do not meet the expectations of ownership, quite often. Brian Cashman seems to be the only front office guy out there who has been granted 20+ year immunity because of the dynasty he helped build over 25 years ago, and even his reign may soon actually come to an end.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Aug 3, 2023 16:23:23 GMT -5
Not directing this towards anyone in particular because I’ve seen many who have used the term here and elsewhere and I think the original context of it has been mostly forgotten, but I think it’s time to retire “CHB” in the year of our lord 2023. It’s tired and homophobic-adjacent, at best. No judgment, but it’s just not a good phrase to use when there are so many to describe Hot Stove Heat Miser.
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Post by remmartin34 on Aug 3, 2023 16:27:44 GMT -5
Lay in wait until the value he commands drops and make the move in the offseason, I've been saying this since the Cease talk started...
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 16,000 
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 16:28:00 GMT -5
Not directing this towards anyone in particular because I’ve seen many who have used the term here and elsewhere and I think the original context of it has been mostly forgotten, but I think it’s time to retire “CHB” in the year of our lord 2023. It’s tired and homophobic-adjacent, at best. No judgment, but it’s just not a good phrase to use when there are so many to describe Hot Stove Heat Miser. Yeah, like “Hack” |
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 3, 2023 17:06:56 GMT -5
So we gave up Blalock too. Why?. I just read this is the kid we moved for a 2b whatever. That was very lame.
I know I'm coming very late on this but it still stupid.
I hope Henry says ok Bloom we see how the season goes if this blows up I'm ready to move on. That was so disappointing.
Erod nixed a deal to LA. I wonder what the price was for him.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 3, 2023 17:17:44 GMT -5
So we gave up Blalock too. Why?. I just read this is the kid we moved for a 2b whatever. That was very lame. I know I'm coming very late on this but it still stupid. I hope Henry says ok Bloom we see how the season goes if this blows up I'm ready to move on. That was so disappointing. Erod nixed a deal to LA. I wonder what the price was for him. I’m confused why it’s stupid. Did you expect the Brewers to send Urias over for nothing? I’m probably one of the highest on Blalock here but I understood it, he’s a 40 man roster crunch casualty, it is what it is. I hope he succeeds and think he will but it was a perfectly reasonable price. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2023 20:27:11 GMT -5
I could maybe believe that the deal was Turner for Cabrera and the Red Sox ultimately turned it down
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Aug 3, 2023 21:20:27 GMT -5
I could maybe believe that the deal was Turner for Cabrera and the Red Sox ultimately turned it down If so, hard to believe Chaim passed that down. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 3, 2023 21:26:23 GMT -5
Shouldn’t we be happy bloom is looking at every single possible scenario to improve the team?? Yes. And I am. |
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Post by nonothing on Aug 3, 2023 21:57:37 GMT -5
Uh.. a college 1B who is struggling in AAA after crushing the lower minors is nowhere near Casas. And Duran is at 2.8 WAR through half a season’s worth of PA and has 5.5 more years of control. How on earth do either equate to Manzardo (who I actually like)? Seems like a bad comparison IMO. If anything I would say it’s like trading Yorke or Rafaela. She made precisely the comparison to Rafaela or Yorke, and her point was that neither Rafaela or Yorke would beat out Manzardo, which I think is accurate. So who do the Sox have with more value that would get it done? Mayer, I guess, but beyond that you'd be looking at Casas or Duran.
Maybe something like Rafaela + Perales would have done it, but that's still a hard pass for me.
Manzardo is likely to be a non-tender candidate in his arb years, assuming he gets there. Yorke could be nothing, but at least hits well for his position. Undersized 1B struggling with bat is nowhere near value of Rafaela. Full stop. No comparison. Rafaela's floor is GG caliber CF who struggles to get on-base. Manzardo's floor is sitting at home on a couch. Rafaela's ceiling is perennial GG winner/.300 hitter. Manzardo's ceiling is? Does somebody know if it is as high as Kyle Schwarber? Or is his ceiling Dan Vogelbach? |
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