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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 5, 2024 20:51:16 GMT -5
There will be risers as well, always is. I do agree the strength of this draft looks to be defense with some excellent looking edge rushers toward the top. Assuming they're picking in the top 2 or 3 they could even trade down and pickup extra picks while getting their T or build up that defense and take a T in round 2 or something.
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Post by rasimon on Sept 5, 2024 20:57:45 GMT -5
There will be risers as well, always is. I do agree the strength of this draft looks to be defense with some excellent looking edge rushers toward the top. Assuming they're picking in the top 2 or 3 they could even trade down and pickup extra picks while getting their T or build up that defense and take a T in round 2 or something. I agree with that. On the D side everything but ILB looks strong relative to other years. But its still early. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 5, 2024 23:53:26 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2024 7:12:10 GMT -5
What’s the definition of tanking?
If it’s putting a bad roster together to intentionally not win games, then I don’t think that’s what they are doing.
If it’s having a 2-3 year plan, and not signing veterans that may make you win more today but will block the development of young guys, then sure they are tanking I guess.
They’ve tried to spend the money on top end difference makers but they’ve refused to spend the money on marginal upgrades, opting instead to develop younger players by opening doors for playing time and roster spots. Is that tanking?
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Sept 6, 2024 9:28:25 GMT -5
I'm all sad because the Sox suck and the Pats suck and Celtics are 2 mos away, so I'm gonna focus on what I'm actually hoping for in this NFL season:
Maye gets an opportunity mid-season and shows competence across the board and flashes of excellence
Two wide receivers emerge from the young guns as solid #2/3 on a good team (I say Polk and Douglas)
Two starter-worthy OL emerge from the dross (along with Onwenu)
Christian Gonzalez moves into the 2nd tier or higher of cover corners, and a 2nd starter-worthy CB emerges
Keion White steps it up a level
Barmore comes back healthy and hungry mid-season
We get to 5 wins again, but look decent on both sides doing it, and Top-5 pick is waiting for us
KC falls short and someone new emerges (Lions are fun)
The Jets kick their fans in the balls yet again behind bad QB play and bad coaching
Belichick stays off the sidelines
Brady is fine as an announcer
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cdj
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Posts: 15,854 
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Post by cdj on Sept 6, 2024 10:30:49 GMT -5
Been thinking about it, is Scarnecchia the best position coach of all fine? God I miss him
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Post by texs31 on Sept 6, 2024 11:40:33 GMT -5
Watch the Pats get a cheapo win on Sunday bc Cincy has to play without top 2 weapons for Burrow.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Sept 6, 2024 11:46:13 GMT -5
Hopeful Mobaz lasted 2 hrs. Just saw some reporting on Trent McDuffie (we traded that pick to the Chiefs), and in Year 3 he's kicking ass, while Cole Strange has only sucked or been injured. In moving down we also passed on pro-bowlers that would look good now, including Tyler Smith and Tyler Linderbaum (could he be a guard, not sure).
McDuffie was a a little undersized but played up, and still is. Not like we didn't seek undersized corners elsewhere...
[old man yells at cloud!]
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2024 12:04:12 GMT -5
Watch the Pats get a cheapo win on Sunday bc Cincy has to play without top 2 weapons for Burrow. Burrow is 1-7 career the first 2 weeks of the season |
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Post by texs31 on Sept 6, 2024 13:47:48 GMT -5
Bengals listing Higgins as doubtful and Chase as questionable. Latter indicated he'd be limited if he played on Sunday.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2024 16:57:31 GMT -5
What’s the definition of tanking? If it’s putting a bad roster together to intentionally not win games, then I don’t think that’s what they are doing. If it’s having a 2-3 year plan, and not signing veterans that may make you win more today but will block the development of young guys, then sure they are tanking I guess. They’ve tried to spend the money on top end difference makers but they’ve refused to spend the money on marginal upgrades, opting instead to develop younger players by opening doors for playing time and roster spots. Is that tanking? Well that's the million dollar question and it seems to be different for everyone. Like Felger says we tanked last year, I dont believe that for even a second. Last year was injuries, players getting worse and a few key free agents being horrible. I see them in the middle, semi tanking/rebuilding. Why? Trading Judon, not spending lots of 2024 money, which is especially bad when you are #1 in 2025 cap space even after all the extensions. They have signed a bunch of marginal upgrades, part of the reason it's not close to a full on tank job and a bunch of those guys are going to stop the younger players from playing. It's why I talked about what do we do at the NFL trade deadline. If you suck and your goal is to play young guys and see what you have. We can move a bunch of players to give them that opportunity. We'll just have to see what happens before the deadline. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2024 17:06:59 GMT -5
Hopeful Mobaz lasted 2 hrs. Just saw some reporting on Trent McDuffie (we traded that pick to the Chiefs), and in Year 3 he's kicking ass, while Cole Strange has only sucked or been injured. In moving down we also passed on pro-bowlers that would look good now, including Tyler Smith and Tyler Linderbaum (could he be a guard, not sure). McDuffie was a a little undersized but played up, and still is. Not like we didn't seek undersized corners elsewhere... [old man yells at cloud!] Cole Strange didn't suck last year, he had like a 66 PFF grade. A ten point improvement over his rookie year. PFF ranked him in top 30 OG for 2024. He's certainly a disappointment because they over drafted him. If he can stay healthy and improve a little bit more, he'll be one of the better OG in football. He might even be Andrews long-term replacement given what Mayo said. The new system is literally perfect for him, We don't need another CB. I'm keeping my eye on Patrick Paul LT drafted by Dolphins. That's a guy I would have traded up for over Wallace. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2024 18:33:13 GMT -5
What’s the definition of tanking? If it’s putting a bad roster together to intentionally not win games, then I don’t think that’s what they are doing. If it’s having a 2-3 year plan, and not signing veterans that may make you win more today but will block the development of young guys, then sure they are tanking I guess. They’ve tried to spend the money on top end difference makers but they’ve refused to spend the money on marginal upgrades, opting instead to develop younger players by opening doors for playing time and roster spots. Is that tanking? Well that's the million dollar question and it seems to be different for everyone. Like Felger says we tanked last year, I dont believe that for even a second. Last year was injuries, players getting worse and a few key free agents being horrible. I see them in the middle, semi tanking/rebuilding. Why? Trading Judon, not spending lots of 2024 money, which is especially bad when you are #1 in 2025 cap space even after all the extensions. They have signed a bunch of marginal upgrades, part of the reason it's not close to a full on tank job and a bunch of those guys are going to stop the younger players from playing. It's why I talked about what do we do at the NFL trade deadline. If you suck and your goal is to play young guys and see what you have. We can move a bunch of players to give them that opportunity. We'll just have to see what happens before the deadline. What marginal upgrades did they sign that are stopping young guys from playing? Besides Brisette, which I think benefits Maye, I can’t think of one. The offensive line guys don’t count, if the young guys were any good they’d play over the trash there now. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2024 18:50:41 GMT -5
Brissett, Okorafor, Osborn, Gibson, Leverett, Hasty, Ximines, Hawkins, Hooper, Watts and Takitaki.
I'm not saying those are bad or anything like that, just pointing out they did sign a bunch of those guys and a bunch are blocking younger players if that was your goal this year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 6, 2024 19:08:11 GMT -5
Brissett, Okorafor, Osborn, Gibson, Leverett, Hasty, Ximines, Hawkins, Hooper, Watts and Takitaki. I'm not saying those are bad or anything like that, just pointing out they did sign a bunch of those guys and a bunch are blocking younger players if that was your goal this year. I guess maybe, but not sure I’m buying it. These guys are mostly relatively young themselves and not really blocking anyone.. Brissett yes, but that’s strategic and better for the young player. Gibson is only 26; he is a young player IMO and there’s no one he’s blocking. Hasty is 27 - I would agree he’s blocking Harris and I wish they kept Harris over him Hawkins is only 27, maybe we can argue he’s blocking Bledsoe? But there’s only 16 months difference in their ages. Hooper isn’t blocking anyone that position group is so shallow Tavai and Ximines are both 27, young enough to still emerge and they aren’t blocking any prospects Okaorafor (27), Leverett(26) aren’t good enough to be blocking anyone and they are young enough to still develop. We need to be realistic and know that just because you could roster a player with a younger number as an age that doesn’t mean that player is a real upside prospect. |
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Post by rasimon on Sept 6, 2024 19:45:29 GMT -5
Hopeful Mobaz lasted 2 hrs. Just saw some reporting on Trent McDuffie (we traded that pick to the Chiefs), and in Year 3 he's kicking ass, while Cole Strange has only sucked or been injured. In moving down we also passed on pro-bowlers that would look good now, including Tyler Smith and Tyler Linderbaum (could he be a guard, not sure). McDuffie was a a little undersized but played up, and still is. Not like we didn't seek undersized corners elsewhere... [old man yells at cloud!] Cole Strange didn't suck last year, he had like a 66 PFF grade. A ten point improvement over his rookie year. PFF ranked him in top 30 OG for 2024. He's certainly a disappointment because they over drafted him. If he can stay healthy and improve a little bit more, he'll be one of the better OG in football. He might even be Andrews long-term replacement given what Mayo said. The new system is literally perfect for him, I have been pretty negative on Strange but I agree he did not suck ...when he played last year. Last year he had a 66.2 pff run blocking grade and a 57.7 pff pass blocking grade for an overall grade of 64.6 (overall grade is not the weighted average of the two). For reference 60 is considered average. So he was slightly above average. If you rank all guards who played 50% of snaps by overall grade...oops he didnt play 50% of snaps. Ok if you rank all guards who played 20% of snaps by overall grade Strange comes in 50th of 83. Coming into this year pff projected Strange 32 among starting guards ...or exactly average. However, there is value to actually playing...Strange played less than half of the snaps last year and this year at best he might play half the snaps. And when he is not playing we are stuck with backups like Mafi (who really did suck). So we have a guy who may play half the snaps, and when he does play he is average. Thats just not very valuable. It might be ok for a 3rd round pick (maybe) but its pretty crappy for a 1st round pick. Obviously its not his fault that Bill decided he was worth a 1st round pick. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2024 20:25:03 GMT -5
Brissett, Okorafor, Osborn, Gibson, Leverett, Hasty, Ximines, Hawkins, Hooper, Watts and Takitaki. I'm not saying those are bad or anything like that, just pointing out they did sign a bunch of those guys and a bunch are blocking younger players if that was your goal this year. I guess maybe, but not sure I’m buying it. These guys are mostly relatively young themselves and not really blocking anyone.. Brissett yes, but that’s strategic and better for the young player. Gibson is only 26; he is a young player IMO and there’s no one he’s blocking. Hasty is 27 - I would agree he’s blocking Harris and I wish they kept Harris over him Hawkins is only 27, maybe we can argue he’s blocking Bledsoe? But there’s only 16 months difference in their ages. Hooper isn’t blocking anyone that position group is so shallow Tavai and Ximines are both 27, young enough to still emerge and they aren’t blocking any prospects Okaorafor (27), Leverett(26) aren’t good enough to be blocking anyone and they are young enough to still develop. We need to be realistic and know that just because you could roster a player with a younger number as an age that doesn’t mean that player is a real upside prospect. I said they signed a bunch of marginal upgrades players and some were blocking younger players, not all of them and I'm not saying it's even wrong for most cases. Hawkins I'd say Pettus and Mapu Hooper is Bell Okorafor is Wallace Brissett with Maye Osborn with young WR, this is probably my biggest issue, hope he proves me wrong. So yeah I agree with most of what you are saying. |
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Post by rasimon on Sept 6, 2024 20:33:03 GMT -5
I dont get the Godchaux contract. He got 2 years 18MM with 14+ guaranteed. DJ Reader who is way better got 2 years 22MM with 7.4MM guaranteed. Early in the offseason I was hoping the Pats would upgrade the DT position but they stuck with Godchaux. He has really not been good. Perhaps the rationale was he was good enough and they could save some money at DT which they could allocate elsewhere... but then they ended up boosting his salary too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2024 20:33:09 GMT -5
Cole Strange didn't suck last year, he had like a 66 PFF grade. A ten point improvement over his rookie year. PFF ranked him in top 30 OG for 2024. He's certainly a disappointment because they over drafted him. If he can stay healthy and improve a little bit more, he'll be one of the better OG in football. He might even be Andrews long-term replacement given what Mayo said. The new system is literally perfect for him, I have been pretty negative on Strange but I agree he did not suck ...when he played last year. Last year he had a 66.2 pff run blocking grade and a 57.7 pff pass blocking grade for an overall grade of 64.6 (overall grade is not the weighted average of the two). For reference 60 is considered average. So he was slightly above average. If you rank all guards who played 50% of snaps by overall grade...oops he didnt play 50% of snaps. Ok if you rank all guards who played 20% of snaps by overall grade Strange comes in 50th of 83. Coming into this year pff projected Strange 32 among starting guards ...or exactly average. However, there is value to actually playing...Strange played less than half of the snaps last year and this year at best he might play half the snaps. And when he is not playing we are stuck with backups like Mafi (who really did suck). So we have a guy who may play half the snaps, and when he does play he is average. Thats just not very valuable. It might be ok for a 3rd round pick (maybe) but its pretty crappy for a 1st round pick. Obviously its not his fault that Bill decided he was worth a 1st round pick. I have Patriots with 1020 offensive snaps, Strange playing 565 snaps, so how isn't that over 50%? How can he be 50th of 83 with an above average grade? How is 32 average when tons of OG will play this year? Nevermind when he was above average last year. I'm so confused. I do fully agree health is a big issue with him, but he did play in all 17 games as a rookie and 94% of the snaps. So let's hope this is one time type thing. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 6, 2024 20:34:55 GMT -5
I dont get the Godchaux contract. He got 2 years 18MM with 14+ guaranteed. DJ Reader who is way better got 2 years 22MM with 7.4MM guaranteed. Early in the offseason I was hoping the Pats would upgrade the DT position but they stuck with Godchaux. He has really not been good. Perhaps the rationale was he was good enough and they could save some money at DT which they could allocate elsewhere... but then they ended up boosting his salary too. I'm convinced he has dirt on Kraft or something like that. The last two extensions by two different GMs have baffled me, so maybe it's an issue with me. |
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Post by rasimon on Sept 6, 2024 20:49:51 GMT -5
I have been pretty negative on Strange but I agree he did not suck ...when he played last year. Last year he had a 66.2 pff run blocking grade and a 57.7 pff pass blocking grade for an overall grade of 64.6 (overall grade is not the weighted average of the two). For reference 60 is considered average. So he was slightly above average. If you rank all guards who played 50% of snaps by overall grade...oops he didnt play 50% of snaps. Ok if you rank all guards who played 20% of snaps by overall grade Strange comes in 50th of 83. Coming into this year pff projected Strange 32 among starting guards ...or exactly average. However, there is value to actually playing...Strange played less than half of the snaps last year and this year at best he might play half the snaps. And when he is not playing we are stuck with backups like Mafi (who really did suck). So we have a guy who may play half the snaps, and when he does play he is average. Thats just not very valuable. It might be ok for a 3rd round pick (maybe) but its pretty crappy for a 1st round pick. Obviously its not his fault that Bill decided he was worth a 1st round pick. I have Patriots with 1020 offensive snaps, Strange playing 565 snaps, so how isn't that over 50%? How can he be 50th of 83 with an above average grade? How is 32 average when tons of OG will play this year? Nevermind when he was above average last year. I'm so confused. I do fully agree health is a big issue with him, but he did play in all 17 games as a rookie and 94% of the snaps. So let's hope this is one time type thing. Andrews played 1050 snaps so its at least 1050. Pff assumes 1374 snaps. So 50% is 687. Yeah I was not clear on that. Sorry about that. He is 50th of the 83 players who played at least 20% of 1374 which is 275 snaps. There were probably a bunch of guys who played less than 275 snaps and who sucked...hence when compared to all snaps at OG he is slightly above average. Pff projected him as 32nd among starting guards. There are 64 starting guards so he is average among starting guards. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 6, 2024 21:57:41 GMT -5
I dont get the Godchaux contract. He got 2 years 18MM with 14+ guaranteed. DJ Reader who is way better got 2 years 22MM with 7.4MM guaranteed. Early in the offseason I was hoping the Pats would upgrade the DT position but they stuck with Godchaux. He has really not been good. Perhaps the rationale was he was good enough and they could save some money at DT which they could allocate elsewhere... but then they ended up boosting his salary too. I like the big man & think he's fairly paid. Pats were historically good against the run last year & it starts with him. BB was talking on his podcast about Ted Washington & how because of his "stoutness" the defense could set the DEs & LBs wider, thus making it near impossible for a RB to gain the edge. And if they wanted to try the middle, Ted (and later Vince) had that covered too. If PFF was around back then, I doubt they'd have liked Ted very much either. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 6, 2024 22:39:09 GMT -5
I'm convinced he has dirt on Kraft or something like that. The last two extensions by two different GMs have baffled me, so maybe it's an issue with me. Your only issue is wanting Brissettball instead of wanting all deep scissors with Bazooka Joe throwing whatthef*ckers all over the field! (Yes I know by now he isn’t accurate, but part of me still really want a game of that) |
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 7, 2024 6:02:41 GMT -5
I guess maybe, but not sure I’m buying it. These guys are mostly relatively young themselves and not really blocking anyone.. Brissett yes, but that’s strategic and better for the young player. Gibson is only 26; he is a young player IMO and there’s no one he’s blocking. Hasty is 27 - I would agree he’s blocking Harris and I wish they kept Harris over him Hawkins is only 27, maybe we can argue he’s blocking Bledsoe? But there’s only 16 months difference in their ages. Hooper isn’t blocking anyone that position group is so shallow Tavai and Ximines are both 27, young enough to still emerge and they aren’t blocking any prospects Okaorafor (27), Leverett(26) aren’t good enough to be blocking anyone and they are young enough to still develop. We need to be realistic and know that just because you could roster a player with a younger number as an age that doesn’t mean that player is a real upside prospect. I said they signed a bunch of marginal upgrades players and some were blocking younger players, not all of them and I'm not saying it's even wrong for most cases. Hawkins I'd say Pettus and Mapu Hooper is Bell Okorafor is Wallace Brissett with Maye Osborn with young WR, this is probably my biggest issue, hope he proves me wrong. So yeah I agree with most of what you are saying. I’d say we are mostly on the same page. I guess i usually mean that marginal upgrades who block younger guys as players in their 30s not guys who are still young enough to improve and be long(ish) term contributors. We have a good history around here of turning those 27ish year old “failed” players into strong veteran players. I don’t mind adding guys like that. Osborn is the one that I’m a bit torn on… you do need competent receivers and with Bournes injury there was probably a need to bring in a decent cheaper “vet” and he was cheap and is still in that youngish category. However, we both have an irrational like of Boutte and would love to see him getting the reps. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Sept 7, 2024 6:35:04 GMT -5
they kept Hasty over Harris because this team is gonna be running a bunch of screens and Hasty is a pass catching back
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