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Post by James Dunne on Jun 5, 2024 10:31:40 GMT -5
Meidroth isn't really a 40-man concern yet, he's not R5 eligible until after 2025. Unless you are referring to him pushing his way into the majors before then, which is a fairly pleasant problem.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 5, 2024 12:24:57 GMT -5
I think the Sox should pull a big move. I’ll give you an example Toronto. Get Vlad JR without giving up something crazy. I believe he would be so pumped coming to this market. Plus you now have a 3 + 4 in the lineup. You give something back to make them feel good. I think a guy like him needs a big market .
If not him something along that line. You as the Red Sox take some risk so you’re not giving up the farm. Toronto is so scared of giving him a huge contract. This team can absorb it . I’m only saying worst case . I think he would be reenergized here.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 5, 2024 13:04:32 GMT -5
I think the Sox should pull a big move. I’ll give you an example Toronto. Get Vlad JR without giving up something crazy. I believe he would be so pumped coming to this market. Plus you now have a 3 + 4 in the lineup. You give something back to make them feel good. I think a guy like him needs a big market . If not him something along that line. You as the Red Sox take some risk so you’re not giving up the farm. Toronto is so scared of giving him a huge contract. This team can absorb it . I’m only saying worst case . I think he would be reenergized here. I don't see Vlad fitting with Devers/Casas on the corners and a clogged DH spot as long as Yoshida is around. Even if Yoshida is gone, is paying a premium for a bat that will again create a DH logjam the best return on investment? I like the idea of Luis Robert. RHH upside OF to break up the LHH surplus. Devers/Robert/Casas 2-4 is a good foundation to build around.
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Post by puzzler on Jun 5, 2024 13:14:09 GMT -5
I think the Sox should pull a big move. I’ll give you an example Toronto. Get Vlad JR without giving up something crazy. I believe he would be so pumped coming to this market. Plus you now have a 3 + 4 in the lineup. You give something back to make them feel good. I think a guy like him needs a big market . If not him something along that line. You as the Red Sox take some risk so you’re not giving up the farm. Toronto is so scared of giving him a huge contract. This team can absorb it . I’m only saying worst case . I think he would be reenergized here. I don't see Vlad fitting with Devers/Casas on the corners and a clogged DH spot as long as Yoshida is around. Even if Yoshida is gone, is paying a premium for a bat that will again create a DH logjam the best return on investment? I like the idea of Luis Robert. RHH upside OF to break up the LHH surplus. Devers/Robert/Casas 2-4 is a good foundation to build around. Yeah, I guess Robert could be pretty expensive in terms of prospects, but he's a much better fit for the Red Sox than Vlad. Not only is he not a good fit for the current roster, but whatever energy Vlad got from the trade, I wouldn't bet on it to last. Robert has the RH power to the opposite field that he Red Sox have been missing since 2018. But he also has the injury history they are very familiar with. I wouldn't be upset by it, but I'd want to see the the prospect cost not be substantial.
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Post by seamus on Jun 5, 2024 13:18:08 GMT -5
I think the Sox should pull a big move. I’ll give you an example Toronto. Get Vlad JR without giving up something crazy. I believe he would be so pumped coming to this market. Plus you now have a 3 + 4 in the lineup. You give something back to make them feel good. I think a guy like him needs a big market . If not him something along that line. You as the Red Sox take some risk so you’re not giving up the farm. Toronto is so scared of giving him a huge contract. This team can absorb it . I’m only saying worst case . I think he would be reenergized here. Aside from it being unlikely that Toronto would move their biggest star to a divisional rival, I don't see how the Red Sox could avoid giving up multiple top 10 guys, including one of their top 100 guys And why would they? I wouldn't trade Casas for Vlad Jr. straight-up, so am I trading something like Teel/Zanetello for a DH with minimal control remaining?
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 5, 2024 13:22:08 GMT -5
This team has battled injuries all year long so I have little desire in trading what likely would be a package that hurts for a guy like Robert. Like the player but don't want to be adding an injury prone guy like him all that much.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 5, 2024 13:40:03 GMT -5
This team has battled injuries all year long so I have little desire in trading what likely would be a package that hurts for a guy like Robert. Like the player but don't want to be adding an injury prone guy like him all that much. One of the biggest strengths of the Sox whole organization is quality depth. I think they could build an enticing enough package while protecting the untouchables. ChiSox are not going to seriously contend within the next 3 years in all likelihood. Each day that goes by, Robert becomes closer to free agency and less worthy of a premium return. Is Wilyer + Bleis + Garcia not enough? Wilyer becomes his immedate replacement, Bleis is the high-ceiling cross your fingers and see asset, and Garcia is potentially a buy-low on a guy with helium prior to his injury. Toss in Paulino and/or Yorke if you need to. They are unlikely to be needed here. From Sox perspective, they still have Duran/Rafaela/Robert with Roman Anthony coming soon. And they have 6+ years to either extend Teel or develop a replacement. Whether or not it's these guys is not exactly my point. My hypothetical could easily be a massive overpay as well. My point is they have so many quality pieces that could form an attractive package without sacrificing Mayer/Roman/Teel/Perales/etc.At some point they will need to consolidate talent, and Robert's age, RH bat, and upside would be nice to see in between Devers and Casas. If it's not Robert, I hope to see them consolidate talent with a similar profile of player that hits RH and has prime years ahead of them... But not Vlad, because of the defensive challenges he would present, and the price-tag a division rival would require. EDIT: Taking a closer look across current MLB players, I am shocked at how few elite RHH there are. When you factor in that many of them play for division rivals and/or 1B/DH, the list of possible targets that fit the above criteria narrows dramatically. Brent Rooker in Oakland and Spencer Steer in Cincy are 2 of the only other RHH that seem to logically fit with the roster for the next 3+ years. Unless I am totally spacing out on someone obvious.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 5, 2024 14:22:01 GMT -5
This team has battled injuries all year long so I have little desire in trading what likely would be a package that hurts for a guy like Robert. Like the player but don't want to be adding an injury prone guy like him all that much. One of the biggest strengths of the Sox whole organization is quality depth. I think they could build an enticing enough package while protecting the untouchables. ChiSox are not going to seriously contend within the next 3 years in all likelihood. Each day that goes by, Robert becomes closer to free agency and less worthy of a premium return. Is Wilyer + Bleis + Garcia not enough? Wilyer becomes his immedate replacement, Bleis is the high-ceiling cross your fingers and see asset, and Garcia is potentially a buy-low on a guy with helium prior to his injury. Toss in Paulino and/or Yorke if you need to. They are unlikely to be needed here. From Sox perspective, they still have Duran/Rafaela/Robert with Roman Anthony coming soon. And they have 6+ years to either extend Teel or develop a replacement. Whether or not it's these guys is not exactly my point. My hypothetical could easily be a massive overpay as well. My point is they have so many quality pieces that could form an attractive package without sacrificing Mayer/Roman/Teel/Perales/etc.At some point they will need to consolidate talent, and Robert's age, RH bat, and upside would be nice to see in between Devers and Casas. If it's not Robert, I hope to see them consolidate talent with a similar profile of player that hits RH and has prime years ahead of them... But not Vlad, because of the defensive challenges he would present, and the price-tag a division rival would require. EDIT: Taking a closer look across current MLB players, I am shocked at how few elite RHH there are. When you factor in that many of them play for division rivals and/or 1B/DH, the list of possible targets that fit the above criteria narrows dramatically. Brent Rooker in Oakland and Spencer Steer in Cincy are 2 of the only other RHH that seem to logically fit with the roster for the next 3+ years. Unless I am totally spacing out on someone obvious. I would not do that trade for Robert but I also am pessimistic on Robert since he's only ever played more than 100 games once in his career. Robert might be the better player than Wilyer but when you take into account the control and salaries I might prefer Wilyer over Robert straight up.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 5, 2024 14:31:10 GMT -5
One of the biggest strengths of the Sox whole organization is quality depth. I think they could build an enticing enough package while protecting the untouchables. ChiSox are not going to seriously contend within the next 3 years in all likelihood. Each day that goes by, Robert becomes closer to free agency and less worthy of a premium return. Is Wilyer + Bleis + Garcia not enough? Wilyer becomes his immedate replacement, Bleis is the high-ceiling cross your fingers and see asset, and Garcia is potentially a buy-low on a guy with helium prior to his injury. Toss in Paulino and/or Yorke if you need to. They are unlikely to be needed here. From Sox perspective, they still have Duran/Rafaela/Robert with Roman Anthony coming soon. And they have 6+ years to either extend Teel or develop a replacement. Whether or not it's these guys is not exactly my point. My hypothetical could easily be a massive overpay as well. My point is they have so many quality pieces that could form an attractive package without sacrificing Mayer/Roman/Teel/Perales/etc.At some point they will need to consolidate talent, and Robert's age, RH bat, and upside would be nice to see in between Devers and Casas. If it's not Robert, I hope to see them consolidate talent with a similar profile of player that hits RH and has prime years ahead of them... But not Vlad, because of the defensive challenges he would present, and the price-tag a division rival would require. EDIT: Taking a closer look across current MLB players, I am shocked at how few elite RHH there are. When you factor in that many of them play for division rivals and/or 1B/DH, the list of possible targets that fit the above criteria narrows dramatically. Brent Rooker in Oakland and Spencer Steer in Cincy are 2 of the only other RHH that seem to logically fit with the roster for the next 3+ years. Unless I am totally spacing out on someone obvious. I would not do that trade for Robert but I also am pessimistic on Robert since he's only ever played more than 100 games once in his career. Robert might be the better player than Wilyer but when you take into account the control and salaries I might prefer Wilyer over Robert straight up. Agreed, just trying to illustrate the point that they have enough pieces to put together an "offer they can't refuse" Corleone style while shielding their most prized prospects. Whichever names fill that hypothetical is another discussion. But it could be done. And a team like CWS seems perfect for a "quantity over quality" package. Obviously scrubs won't get it done, but a 4 for 1, etc. seems like a better strategy for CWS than a 1 for 1 with 1 super prospect.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jun 5, 2024 16:06:56 GMT -5
On a trade for Luis Robert the line probably starts at Duran.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 5, 2024 16:20:15 GMT -5
I just think this deadline they should flex there financial muscle and with Breslow in charge maybe they pull something off. Something we dont see coming love that to happen.
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Post by keninten on Jun 5, 2024 17:29:20 GMT -5
On a trade for Luis Robert the line probably starts at Duran. He`s a favorite of mine but he`ll be 28 in September. They should be checking his trade value.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 5, 2024 17:36:40 GMT -5
MLBTR app has a story saying the chisox will entertain offers for both Robert and crochet. I personally don't really want to pay a steep price for either of them but if a reasonable deal is to be had then why not kick the tires.
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Post by nonothing on Jun 5, 2024 20:51:02 GMT -5
This team has battled injuries all year long so I have little desire in trading what likely would be a package that hurts for a guy like Robert. Like the player but don't want to be adding an injury prone guy like him all that much. One of the biggest strengths of the Sox whole organization is quality depth. I think they could build an enticing enough package while protecting the untouchables. ChiSox are not going to seriously contend within the next 3 years in all likelihood. Each day that goes by, Robert becomes closer to free agency and less worthy of a premium return. Is Wilyer + Bleis + Garcia not enough? Wilyer becomes his immedate replacement, Bleis is the high-ceiling cross your fingers and see asset, and Garcia is potentially a buy-low on a guy with helium prior to his injury. Toss in Paulino and/or Yorke if you need to. They are unlikely to be needed here. From Sox perspective, they still have Duran/Rafaela/Robert with Roman Anthony coming soon. And they have 6+ years to either extend Teel or develop a replacement. Whether or not it's these guys is not exactly my point. My hypothetical could easily be a massive overpay as well. My point is they have so many quality pieces that could form an attractive package without sacrificing Mayer/Roman/Teel/Perales/etc.At some point they will need to consolidate talent, and Robert's age, RH bat, and upside would be nice to see in between Devers and Casas. If it's not Robert, I hope to see them consolidate talent with a similar profile of player that hits RH and has prime years ahead of them... But not Vlad, because of the defensive challenges he would present, and the price-tag a division rival would require. EDIT: Taking a closer look across current MLB players, I am shocked at how few elite RHH there are. When you factor in that many of them play for division rivals and/or 1B/DH, the list of possible targets that fit the above criteria narrows dramatically. Brent Rooker in Oakland and Spencer Steer in Cincy are 2 of the only other RHH that seem to logically fit with the roster for the next 3+ years. Unless I am totally spacing out on someone obvious. I would never do the deal above. Robert is hardly ever on the field. Tyler O'Neill was gotten for 2 arms relievers who wouldn't have been in our bullpen plans. Why would we trade 3 guys of that caliber for somebody who isn't likely to contribute more than TON, especially when we have 2 high quality defenders for CF already?
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 6, 2024 12:22:31 GMT -5
Considering Soto is younger and by far the better player and safer investment…. I rather go all out for him in FA and not trade a bunch for Robert JR
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 6, 2024 12:47:46 GMT -5
One of the biggest strengths of the Sox whole organization is quality depth. I think they could build an enticing enough package while protecting the untouchables. ChiSox are not going to seriously contend within the next 3 years in all likelihood. Each day that goes by, Robert becomes closer to free agency and less worthy of a premium return. Is Wilyer + Bleis + Garcia not enough? Wilyer becomes his immedate replacement, Bleis is the high-ceiling cross your fingers and see asset, and Garcia is potentially a buy-low on a guy with helium prior to his injury. Toss in Paulino and/or Yorke if you need to. They are unlikely to be needed here. From Sox perspective, they still have Duran/Rafaela/Robert with Roman Anthony coming soon. And they have 6+ years to either extend Teel or develop a replacement. Whether or not it's these guys is not exactly my point. My hypothetical could easily be a massive overpay as well. My point is they have so many quality pieces that could form an attractive package without sacrificing Mayer/Roman/Teel/Perales/etc.At some point they will need to consolidate talent, and Robert's age, RH bat, and upside would be nice to see in between Devers and Casas. If it's not Robert, I hope to see them consolidate talent with a similar profile of player that hits RH and has prime years ahead of them... But not Vlad, because of the defensive challenges he would present, and the price-tag a division rival would require. EDIT: Taking a closer look across current MLB players, I am shocked at how few elite RHH there are. When you factor in that many of them play for division rivals and/or 1B/DH, the list of possible targets that fit the above criteria narrows dramatically. Brent Rooker in Oakland and Spencer Steer in Cincy are 2 of the only other RHH that seem to logically fit with the roster for the next 3+ years. Unless I am totally spacing out on someone obvious. I would never do the deal above. Robert is hardly ever on the field. Tyler O'Neill was gotten for 2 arms relievers who wouldn't have been in our bullpen plans. Why would we trade 3 guys of that caliber for somebody who isn't likely to contribute more than TON, especially when we have 2 high quality defenders for CF already? Please refer to the bolded and italicized lines from my last post. This was in response to the comment about LRJ costing a package that "will hurt." My only point is that the system is deep enough to build a package, particularly a 3 for 1, 4 for 1, etc. that does not include our top guys.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 1,262
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Post by asm18 on Jun 6, 2024 12:54:16 GMT -5
“I think the trade deadline is this inflection point where we have to pick a lane. I think it’s fairly straightforward what is going to drive that decision — namely, how are we performing? How many games are we winning? But secondarily, maybe what opportunities exist in trying to balance the short-term outlook and the long-term outlook?” - Breslow to Alex Speier www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/06/sports/red-sox-craig-breslow-trade-deadline/?event=event25
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Jun 6, 2024 12:56:53 GMT -5
“I think the trade deadline is this inflection point where we have to pick a lane. I think it’s fairly straightforward what is going to drive that decision — namely, how are we performing? How many games are we winning? But secondarily, maybe what opportunities exist in trying to balance the short-term outlook and the long-term outlook?” - Breslow to Alex Speier www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/06/sports/red-sox-craig-breslow-trade-deadline/?event=event25 Now that is classic POBO or GM speak for you !!!
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 6, 2024 13:03:27 GMT -5
Some solid Never Say Anything work there
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 427
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Post by badfishnbc on Jun 6, 2024 16:29:49 GMT -5
Considering Soto is younger and by far the better player and safer investment…. I rather go all out for him in FA and not trade a bunch for Robert JR And we said the same thing re: Soto about Yamamoto last summer, in anticipation of the coming offseason. We’re not a destination anymore and we’re not going to dictate the market with our spending. So trades become of paramount importance to improve the team.
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Post by rkarp on Jun 6, 2024 16:59:07 GMT -5
Pivetta is going to be an UFA. I don't think half a season of Pivetta will return a top 1,2 or 3 prospect from another team. I also think he is part of the solution here and the team should try to resign him. if you want a stud, the RS will need to part 1 or 2 top 5 and another 1 or 2 top 10 prospects.
I would love to see a rotation of 1-TOR stud like Cole 2-Luzardo (trade Mayer, Bleis, Zanetello) 3-Bello 4-Houck 5-Pivetta 6-Gio
Casas/Vaughn or Yorke/Story/Devers/Durran/Ceddane/ABreu/Teel
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Post by jdb on Jun 6, 2024 19:01:21 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what happens. I agree if you want to have Pivetta next season it’s probably best to QO him and limit his market. With Giolitto likely picking up his option to go with Bello, Houck and Crawford I don’t know if you do bring him back. Get another top end guy and have Fitts ready behind them. As far as Boston not being a destination anymore playing meaningful games in September with a young core and prospects on the way could change that in a hurry.
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Post by bcsox on Jun 6, 2024 19:19:48 GMT -5
I am generally in the mindset of move just about everybody you can who you don’t see as a major impact player for next year. The one hold up is that if this team hangs around fringe contention after weathering the multitude of injuries, the morale is going to be crushed if you unload say Pivetta, Martin, and Jansen.
Specifically what if the offered return for Jansen is a C+ prospect, someome whose upside projects as say a 6th inning guy. Do you do the trade just to get something for a guy who won’t be here next year and risk pissing off the guys in the clubhouse who have had to grind just to keep you afloat.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 7, 2024 8:26:39 GMT -5
I am generally in the mindset of move just about everybody you can who you don’t see as a major impact player for next year. The one hold up is that if this team hangs around fringe contention after weathering the multitude of injuries, the morale is going to be crushed if you unload say Pivetta, Martin, and Jansen. Specifically what if the offered return for Jansen is a C+ prospect, someome whose upside projects as say a 6th inning guy. Do you do the trade just to get something for a guy who won’t be here next year and risk pissing off the guys in the clubhouse who have had to grind just to keep you afloat. On the flip side, I think Kenley's situation could be perceived in the clubhouse as "doing right" by a future HOF closer who has limited time left. i.e. Don't allow him to toil away on a non-contender when he could contribute to a postseason push in the limited time he has left in the twilight of a HOF career. Obviously, if they're in the thick of the race, it changes the optics, but if they are clearly out of it, they all understand it's a business and who Kenley is. Not to mention Kenley doesn't seem to love it here, there have been public reports of them shopping him, and Liam Hendriks is waiting in the wings. I think the "piss off the clubhouse/culture" scenario applies more to Nick Pivetta. Seems like there is a lot of camaraderie in the SP rotation and Nick is the vet of the group. Projecting the Pivetta scenario, I think it will come down to a couple of factors: 1. How is Pivetta pitching? (Duh.)If he looks like a frontline horse, he could be too valuable of an asset not to move. A potential extension would also be pricing higher and higher in this scenario with each dominant start. If he looks like more of a mid-rotation guy, is a 'decent' return worth moving a guy who fits well here? Plus, in this scenario, maybe a more reasonable extension can be agreed upon. 2. What is the competitive landscape across MLB?Is there a top team (i.e. ATL/LAD/BAL) that look to be one SP away w/ young talent to spare? I don't see a wild card fringe contender giving up premium talent in a crowded competitive environment, but if it looks like there is a small handful of contenders, I could definitely envision one of them ponying up if Pivetta looks like a guy that can put them over the top. Keep in mind -- Pivetta has been nails in the postseason (13.2ip, 2.63 era, 1.02 whip) and has the bulldog demeanor for those moments.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 1,262
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Post by asm18 on Jun 7, 2024 10:11:44 GMT -5
Now that the newest SP rankings are out, here are prospects who are Rule 5 eligible in the Top 30 (and thus you have to consider as trade chips on the possibility you could lose for nothing if not protected): #7 Dick Fitts #12 Allan Castro #13 Matthew Lugo #14 Edison Paulino #17 Nick Yorke #19 Blaze Jordan #20 Yordanny Monegro #24 Hunter Dobbins #25 Luis Guerrero #27 Nathan Hickey #28 Angel Bastardo #30 Ryan Zeferjhan Now realistically someone like say, Richard Fitts (starter in Triple A) is going to get protected. A lot of other folks maybe there’s not a huge anxiety about whether or not they get picked. But with how teams in recent years have been either 1) tanking aggressively and so don’t care if a Rule 5 guy sucks at first or 2) have been uh… particular about Rule 5 Players and “injuries” (COUGHPhilliesCOUGH) I suppose you never really know. soxprospects.com/rule5.htm
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