SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by steveofbradenton on Sept 21, 2024 13:00:43 GMT -5
When I read a report that the front office and ownership are firing long time scouts and asking the others to take a pay cut it makes me really angry. I have not once said a bad word about Henry on here but this pisses me off. The reason I'm bringing that up is we need badly to spend big on one or two high-level starters and I'm thinking that may not happen.
This season, in my opinion, has been a success. The development of lots of young talent is exciting. With us spending BIG again and making a difficult trade or two, we can be right back in contention. If John Henry does not want to do this, I'd wish, for the 1st time, he would sell.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 21, 2024 13:16:38 GMT -5
When I read a report that the front office and ownership are firing long time scouts and asking the others to take a pay cut it makes me really angry. I have not once said a bad word about Henry on here but this pisses me off. The reason I'm bringing that up is we need badly to spend big on one or two high-level starters and I'm thinking that may not happen. This season, in my opinion, has been a success. The development of lots of young talent is exciting. With us spending BIG again and making a difficult trade or two, we can be right back in contention. If John Henry does not want to do this, I'd wish, for the 1st time, he would sell. You really have to spend on great talent evaluators if you’re not going to spend in Free Agency. If that’s true, Henry might not be green lighting much more spending than what they had this year. Quite frankly for a team that is trying a mid market approach, that tactic is certainly maddening. |
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,857 
|
Post by shagworthy on Sept 21, 2024 13:59:41 GMT -5
Everyone says cash is king, and despite that, for a good chunk of the year the Sox had a pretty impressive season, but I worry that any of the targets we would want in FA will come at a Boston premium, similarly to what happened with David Price, it's no secret Price did not like Boston, but they offered him so much money he couldn't go somewhere else without risking a tar and feathering by the union.
I think it's safe to say the Sox do not have a great reputation right now as a well run organization. In ST, our high profile closer was on the record with his disappointment in the promises he was sold versus the reality he was experiencing. It all was water under the bridge while they were winning, but one has to wonder if those questions come rumbling back now that they shit the bed (no better way to describe the post AS break Red Sox). Players talk, and true competitors want to win, I don't want Boston to become the place where players come to rehab because of their facilities and staff only to go elsewhere to win.
Long winded way of saying I won't get my hopes up too high for any offseason moves, it'd be foolish to expect anything considering what this leadership group has done since 2019. I hope they prove me wrong and I hope everyone here takes the piss out of me when they do, but until I see it I am going to be completely suspect.
|
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 21, 2024 14:16:32 GMT -5
Everyone says cash is king, and despite that, for a good chunk of the year the Sox had a pretty impressive season, but I worry that any of the targets we would want in FA will come at a Boston premium, similarly to what happened with David Price, it's no secret Price did not like Boston, but they offered him so much money he couldn't go somewhere else without risking a tar and feathering by the union. I think it's safe to say the Sox do not have a great reputation right now as a well run organization. In ST, our high profile closer was on the record with his disappointment in the promises he was sold versus the reality he was experiencing. It all was water under the bridge while they were winning, but one has to wonder if those questions come rumbling back now that they shit the bed (no better way to describe the post AS break Red Sox). Players talk, and true competitors want to win, I don't want Boston to become the place where players come to rehab because of their facilities and staff only to go elsewhere to win. Long winded way of saying I won't get my hopes up too high for any offseason moves, it'd be foolish to expect anything considering what this leadership group has done since 2019. I hope they prove me wrong and I hope everyone here takes the piss out of me when they do, but until I see it I am going to be completely suspect. Oh good. This argument, in yet another thread.
I'll just say that if I was a free agent, I would be pretty intrigued by the team that was among the leaders in pre-arb WAR and also had 4 top-100 prospects all in AAA and set to debut in the majors in 2025. Which is something I'm sure Breslow will be happy to advertize to any potential targets.
|
|
chaimtime
Veteran
Posts: 994
Member is Online
|
Post by chaimtime on Sept 21, 2024 14:25:28 GMT -5
Everyone says cash is king, and despite that, for a good chunk of the year the Sox had a pretty impressive season, but I worry that any of the targets we would want in FA will come at a Boston premium, similarly to what happened with David Price, it's no secret Price did not like Boston, but they offered him so much money he couldn't go somewhere else without risking a tar and feathering by the union. I think it's safe to say the Sox do not have a great reputation right now as a well run organization. In ST, our high profile closer was on the record with his disappointment in the promises he was sold versus the reality he was experiencing. It all was water under the bridge while they were winning, but one has to wonder if those questions come rumbling back now that they shit the bed (no better way to describe the post AS break Red Sox). Players talk, and true competitors want to win, I don't want Boston to become the place where players come to rehab because of their facilities and staff only to go elsewhere to win. Long winded way of saying I won't get my hopes up too high for any offseason moves, it'd be foolish to expect anything considering what this leadership group has done since 2019. I hope they prove me wrong and I hope everyone here takes the piss out of me when they do, but until I see it I am going to be completely suspect. Oh good. This argument, in yet another thread.
I'll just say that if I was a free agent, I would be pretty intrigued by the team that was among the leaders in pre-arb WAR and also had 4 top-100 prospects all in AAA and set to debut in the majors in 2025. Which is something I'm sure Breslow will be happy to advertize to any potential targets.
A certain marquee free agent had an absolute ball every time he was in left at Fenway this year, too… |
|
|
|
Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 21, 2024 15:13:28 GMT -5
Everyone says cash is king, and despite that, for a good chunk of the year the Sox had a pretty impressive season, but I worry that any of the targets we would want in FA will come at a Boston premium, similarly to what happened with David Price, it's no secret Price did not like Boston, but they offered him so much money he couldn't go somewhere else without risking a tar and feathering by the union. I think it's safe to say the Sox do not have a great reputation right now as a well run organization. In ST, our high profile closer was on the record with his disappointment in the promises he was sold versus the reality he was experiencing. It all was water under the bridge while they were winning, but one has to wonder if those questions come rumbling back now that they shit the bed (no better way to describe the post AS break Red Sox). Players talk, and true competitors want to win, I don't want Boston to become the place where players come to rehab because of their facilities and staff only to go elsewhere to win. Long winded way of saying I won't get my hopes up too high for any offseason moves, it'd be foolish to expect anything considering what this leadership group has done since 2019. I hope they prove me wrong and I hope everyone here takes the piss out of me when they do, but until I see it I am going to be completely suspect. I don't think it's "safe to say" that at all. Have you polled the other teams' FO and the MLBPA and the various agents that rep ballplayers? |
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Sept 21, 2024 15:54:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Sept 21, 2024 19:45:28 GMT -5
This. And also, these comments about Henry and spending are so off the mark. I am sure they will spend when they have the right core in place to do so. The problem with spending early is not just the $30M/yr you blow on a pitcher when the rest of the team is noncompetitive. It is also that when you are ready to compete, your $30M/yr pitcher is a guy who was great 3 yrs prior but you now have the bad part of the deal running through your core competitive window. Give it a rest. They have built back what they needed to for player core. Over the next two years, they should become more competitive, and I can see more spending... but maybe more for homegrown player extenstions and short term FA deals than long term FA deals. In terms of the front office, scouting, etc. It is very possible that Bloom added analytics and other capabilities without shrinking at all the other portions of the org that may be less relevant. That could have been on purpose to try some new things without losing people in the fold for a very long time. Breslow is probably more trusted to cut pieces out that maybe we need less in the future. No good org just keeps adding new people and capabilities to do the same jobs (identify and develop talent) without cutting other jobs. They are probably pruning to make a more tight structure around the capabilities they most value. Unless you know this not to be the case, you are just whining and pretending it is about penny pinching when actually it could be that too much is being spent off the gameday field and they want to redirect resources toward the gameday field. |
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,791
|
Post by asm18 on Sept 30, 2024 14:00:30 GMT -5
From Breslow advisor and Driveline founder - aside from Whitlock (who I imagine TJ will steer him away from rotation consideration but I guess that’s up to the medical staff), wonder who else fits this mold they might have eyes on. Obviously would not expect Crochet results…
|
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Sept 30, 2024 14:19:36 GMT -5
Cora did mention wanting to see Slaten get stronger in the offseason..
edit:
|
|
|
|
Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 30, 2024 16:34:20 GMT -5
Crochet isn't a good example of converting a reliever to a starter. He was the 11th pick in the 2020 draft who was rushed to the majors that season and then pitched as a reliever his first full season as a professional as the White Sox had some good SPs and they wanted to keep Crochet's IP down. Then he was hurt for almost 2 years prior to 12.2 late innings RP appearances at the end of 2023. It's an example of the incompetence of the White Sox management and not much else. Nobody uses the 11th pick on a reliever and I can't imagine any other team using him as a reliever or rushing him to the majors.
Seth Lugo, Michael King and Reynaldo Lopez were established relief pitchers, who were succesfully converted to starting pitchers, after being available as free agents. But it should be noted that each of them had previosuly been somewhat-succesful starting pitchers previously. Perhaps the key is to look at free agents and available end-of-roster pitchers who have already shown they can be starters at the MLB level but stopped due to injury/roster-restrictions/ineffectiveness.
All other examples I could find over the past couple of seasons were either SPs filling in as RPs because they were young and didn't have rotation room OR they haven't solidified themselves as success stories (yet).
|
|
chaimtime
Veteran
Posts: 994
Member is Online
|
Post by chaimtime on Sept 30, 2024 16:44:12 GMT -5
Crochet isn't a good example of converting a reliever to a starter. He was the 11th pick in the 2020 draft who was rushed to the majors that season and then pitched as a reliever his first full season as a professional as the White Sox had some good SPs and they wanted to keep Crochet's IP down. Then he was hurt for almost 2 years prior to 12.2 late innings RP appearances at the end of 2023. It's an example of the incompetence of the White Sox management and not much else. Nobody uses the 11th pick on a reliever and I can't imagine any other team using him as a reliever or rushing him to the majors. Seth Lugo, Michael King and Reynaldo Lopez were established relief pitchers, who were succesfully converted to starting pitchers, after being available as free agents. But it should be noted that each of them had previosuly been somewhat-succesful starting pitchers previously. Perhaps the key is to look at free agents and available end-of-roster pitchers who have already shown they can be starters at the MLB level but stopped due to injury/roster-restrictions/ineffectiveness. All other examples I could find over the past couple of seasons were either SPs filling in as RPs because they were young and didn't have rotation room OR they haven't solidified themselves as success stories (yet). Garrett Crochet had made 13 starts since graduating high school before this year, if BRef’s numbers are right. He had mostly pitched out of the bullpen before his junior season, where he made 1 start before the season was cancelled. He was a good prospect because he had crazy stuff, a high leverage relief floor, and all the tools to become a good starter at the MLB level with enough developmental time. It certainly was not because he had been a consistent starting pitcher in college. I think he’s a pretty good example of what they’re talking about. |
|
badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 492
|
Post by badfishnbc on Sept 30, 2024 21:45:22 GMT -5
This. And also, these comments about Henry and spending are so off the mark. I am sure they will spend when they have the right core in place to do so. The problem with spending early is not just the $30M/yr you blow on a pitcher when the rest of the team is noncompetitive. It is also that when you are ready to compete, your $30M/yr pitcher is a guy who was great 3 yrs prior but you now have the bad part of the deal running through your core competitive window. Give it a rest. They have built back what they needed to for player core. Over the next two years, they should become more competitive, and I can see more spending... but maybe more for homegrown player extenstions and short term FA deals than long term FA deals. In terms of the front office, scouting, etc. It is very possible that Bloom added analytics and other capabilities without shrinking at all the other portions of the org that may be less relevant. That could have been on purpose to try some new things without losing people in the fold for a very long time. Breslow is probably more trusted to cut pieces out that maybe we need less in the future. No good org just keeps adding new people and capabilities to do the same jobs (identify and develop talent) without cutting other jobs. They are probably pruning to make a more tight structure around the capabilities they most value. Unless you know this not to be the case, you are just whining and pretending it is about penny pinching when actually it could be that too much is being spent off the gameday field and they want to redirect resources toward the gameday field. But in the same survey the Sox also wound up on the list of teams with a bad reputation. Compounded by Massachusetts as a high-tax state and the AL East as a buzz saw of contenders. It’s not as simple as “Fenway is a museum.” We’re not a destination now for a lot of reasons. The competition is better. The O’s have a better young core and new ownership committed to spending, the Yanks have tradition, an appealing market and a tendency to spend, and the Blue Jays threaten to overspend every winter. And the Rays cheat death ever 2-3 years. I just don’t see the FA’s coming any time soon. |
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on Sept 30, 2024 21:59:09 GMT -5
This. And also, these comments about Henry and spending are so off the mark. I am sure they will spend when they have the right core in place to do so. The problem with spending early is not just the $30M/yr you blow on a pitcher when the rest of the team is noncompetitive. It is also that when you are ready to compete, your $30M/yr pitcher is a guy who was great 3 yrs prior but you now have the bad part of the deal running through your core competitive window. Give it a rest. They have built back what they needed to for player core. Over the next two years, they should become more competitive, and I can see more spending... but maybe more for homegrown player extenstions and short term FA deals than long term FA deals. In terms of the front office, scouting, etc. It is very possible that Bloom added analytics and other capabilities without shrinking at all the other portions of the org that may be less relevant. That could have been on purpose to try some new things without losing people in the fold for a very long time. Breslow is probably more trusted to cut pieces out that maybe we need less in the future. No good org just keeps adding new people and capabilities to do the same jobs (identify and develop talent) without cutting other jobs. They are probably pruning to make a more tight structure around the capabilities they most value. Unless you know this not to be the case, you are just whining and pretending it is about penny pinching when actually it could be that too much is being spent off the gameday field and they want to redirect resources toward the gameday field. But in the same survey the Sox also wound up on the list of teams with a bad reputation. Compounded by Massachusetts as a high-tax state and the AL East as a buzz saw of contenders. It’s not as simple as “Fenway is a museum.” We’re not a destination now for a lot of reasons. The competition is better. The O’s have a better young core and new ownership committed to spending, the Yanks have tradition, an appealing market and a tendency to spend, and the Blue Jays threaten to overspend every winter. And the Rays cheat death ever 2-3 years. I just don’t see the FA’s coming any time soon. Money talks. If Henry is willing to spend, they’ll come. Pretty cut and dry, imho. |
|
|
|
Post by itinerantherb on Sept 30, 2024 22:30:54 GMT -5
Red Sox bullpen pre-ASB:
ERA: 3.66 (11th)
xFIP: 3.85 (7th)
LOB%: 68.5% (23rd)
Post-ASB:
ERA: 5.45 (30th)
xFIP: 4.48 (26th)
LOB%: 64.8% (30th)
FWIW, Sox save opportunities minus saves (same as blown saves?): 31 (29th)
MLB median: 23
This team had several notable flaws, but the bullpen meltdown post-ASB is at the top of the list.
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,791
|
Post by asm18 on Oct 1, 2024 1:01:01 GMT -5
Cora did mention wanting to see Slaten get stronger in the offseason..
edit:
I can understand it in theory - it’s just tough to know how Slaten would adapt to a complete change in workload. The only season he really started in the minor leagues was in 2021, and in it was 20 games where he pitched 82 innings… Garrett Whitlock in contrast started fulltime in the minors, was consistently a multi-inning reliever in MLB, and has had successful MLB starts in his career despite injuries. Slaten has none of that track record, so short of some smart biomechanics guy on the team insisting he could physically hold up there I’d be very skeptical |
|
|
|
Post by wcsoxfan on Oct 1, 2024 1:26:12 GMT -5
Garrett Crochet had made 13 starts since graduating high school before this year, if BRef’s numbers are right. He had mostly pitched out of the bullpen before his junior season, where he made 1 start before the season was cancelled. He was a good prospect because he had crazy stuff, a high leverage relief floor, and all the tools to become a good starter at the MLB level with enough developmental time. It certainly was not because he had been a consistent starting pitcher in college. I think he’s a pretty good example of what they’re talking about. I could be mistaken, but I don't think they're implying that drafting pitchers early in the 1st round who switched between SP (13) and RP (23) in college, is what would provide MLB teams a competitive advantage. I believe they talking about pitchers considered established major league relievers who may be able to offer more. The more you look at why Crochet has started so few games (shoulder injury in college, elbow injury after being drafted, another elbow injury ending in TJ surgery causing him to miss most of 2 seasons), the more concern it raises about a guy who has only been a true SP for half of a season. He has electric stuff, so I'd still want him, but the downside is worrisome. Crochet is a great example of how top prospects who have missed significant time due to injury shouldn't be written off. |
|
|
|
Post by bettsonmookie on Oct 1, 2024 15:32:59 GMT -5
Wasn’t sure where to post this but the quote is startlingly candid.
Especially ironic that Montgomery stinking up the joint is what cost Arizona the playoffs considering the discourse surrounding him last offseason.
|
|
|
|
Post by kwodes on Oct 1, 2024 18:15:42 GMT -5
Wasn’t sure where to post this but the quote is startlingly candid. Especially ironic that Montgomery stinking up the joint is what cost Arizona the playoffs considering the discourse surrounding him last offseason. wild comments |
|
|
|
Post by kwodes on Oct 1, 2024 18:22:53 GMT -5
Bieber and Flaherty would be my top 2 targets. Spend on 1 of those (preferably Flaherty) and trade Abreu to the Guardians for Cade Smith or as a package for Mason Miller or insert good controllable RP here.
|
|
|
|
Post by jodyreidnichols on Oct 1, 2024 18:44:17 GMT -5
When I read a report that the front office and ownership are firing long time scouts and asking the others to take a pay cut it makes me really angry. I have not once said a bad word about Henry on here but this pisses me off. The reason I'm bringing that up is we need badly to spend big on one or two high-level starters and I'm thinking that may not happen. This season, in my opinion, has been a success. The development of lots of young talent is exciting. With us spending BIG again and making a difficult trade or two, we can be right back in contention. If John Henry does not want to do this, I'd wish, for the 1st time, he would sell. Very disappointing to hear. I've been defending management the last few years saying the time was not right with last year being an exception thinking they may finally open the wallets and go after top pitching talent. I was disappointed but not overly so. With the minors where they are and the talent of the MLB team and how much cap space they have, their is no reason whatsoever for them not to 'go for it'. Now we have no reason at all to trust management, none, other than wishful thinking. Truly I'd love to be wrong but I'm not holding my breath. |
|
|
|
Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 1, 2024 20:02:42 GMT -5
I wonder if Abreu and Mayer would be enough/too much/too little to get Garrett Crochet?
|
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Oct 1, 2024 22:53:37 GMT -5
I wonder if Abreu and Mayer would be enough/too much/too little to get Garrett Crochet? Way too much for my taste unless his extension demands are very reasonable. It doesn't sound like other teams were willing to meet a price like that and now he'll be down to 2 years of team control, one more injury and you may not even have him for either postseason until that FA or an extension kicks in. Painter and Rushing are both in the low 30's on MLB's top 100 list. |
|
|
|
Post by abrinker on Oct 2, 2024 8:21:08 GMT -5
For the right price, David Bednar would be an interesting bullpen addition. He's coming off a down season and I find it hard to believe Nutting will pony up $6-7M for him next year. Pirates will likely look to move him, but coming off a bad 2024, I wonder if he could be had for a modest value. Velo continues to look strong, but K% and BB% went in the wrong directions this season. Still reasonably young, and his track record before 2024 was fantastic, so maybe a good buy-low candidate, either via trade or non-tender FA.
|
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Oct 2, 2024 9:10:28 GMT -5
I wonder if Abreu and Mayer would be enough/too much/too little to get Garrett Crochet? I don't think Abreu fits the White Sox time line. His most valuable years are the next two making the minimum salary when the White Sox are gonna stink. Mayer by himself is probably in the ballpark of a winning Crochet bid. |
|
|
