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If there’s a will, there’s Wilyer — Wilyer Abreu thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 3, 2024 7:17:34 GMT -5
Call me too optimistic but I think there's another gear he can tap into by chasing less and I believe he will. He's only got a 27.3% chase rate, which puts him in the 54th percentile. Chase rate isn't a problem. If anything his 77% Z-contact rate is the thing he could improve upon.
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Post by seamus on Jul 3, 2024 12:05:08 GMT -5
The Z-contact rate isn't good, but his batted ball metrics seem very strong (e.g., 84th percentile hard hit rate). I wonder if this is reflective of what seems to be an organizational approach to trade contact for impact. We've talked about how sometimes running a higher contact rate results in weak balls in play, so the question becomes can Abreu up his Z-contact to more like 81% without sacrificing his above-average barrel and hard-hit numbers? He's pretty good as-is, so it's exciting to think how much better he could be if he can do that.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 3, 2024 13:29:11 GMT -5
Wilyer ranks 45th/294 in Isolated Power in the zone. I don't know how much more zone contact you want to add, which very likely would lead to less power. Here is his in-zone twin
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Post by seamus on Jul 3, 2024 13:39:07 GMT -5
As long as it's not health-related, Buxton comps are basically always nice.
Wilyer's platoon splits in the minors were never terrible, so it'll be interesting to see if that's a long-term issue or something he'll be able to figure out when they actually give him plate appearances against lefties. I think I saw Cora talking earlier this year about how they want to ease young LH batters in against lefties, almost irrespective of actual platoon splits.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 3, 2024 13:57:14 GMT -5
Abreu is low-key a 5 tool player and he somehow made it all the way to the majors without anyone ever noticing.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 3, 2024 14:09:57 GMT -5
To be clear, my point wasn't that he needs to improve his Z-contact. It was more that there's nothing wrong with his chase rate and all things equal, "weak" points in his game exist elsewhere. Completely fine with the profile.
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Post by itinerantherb on Jul 3, 2024 14:15:10 GMT -5
Abreu is low-key a 5 tool player and he somehow made it all the way to the majors without anyone ever noticing. He's really a case study sleeper. Chaim did target him in the Vasquez trade, so we can't exactly say that he was hiding in plain sight. But a year ago he was the 20th ranked prospect on this site and now he's an above-average major leaguer with a chance to become more than that if he can be even adequate against left-handed pitching. The under-the-radar guys fascinate me. One of my previous favorite examples was Travis Shaw peaking at #16 and then going on to have a few really good seasons, but Wilyer could be much, much better than that.
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Post by rickasadoorian on Jul 3, 2024 16:12:15 GMT -5
Abreu is low-key a 5 tool player and he somehow made it all the way to the majors without anyone ever noticing. I have no proof of this, but I always believed a lot of prospects who failed in 2019 were written off and forgotten about. A lot of it due to age and level. They were "behind." If he puts up his AA stats as a 22 year old instead of a 23 year old, he's getting more love. Then you have guys like David Hamilton who was drafted in 2019 at the age of 21, yet didn't make his career debut until 2021 as a 23 year old in A+. He finished the year at AA. It's pretty easy to write off a guy who is starting a year in AA at age 24 and hasn't done anything of note. I did it all the time prior to 2020. It's part of the reason guys like Abreu, Valdez and Hamilton were available in the first place.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,580
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Post by radiohix on Jul 3, 2024 16:12:38 GMT -5
Call me too optimistic but I think there's another gear he can tap into by chasing less and I believe he will. He's only got a 27.3% chase rate, which puts him in the 54th percentile. Chase rate isn't a problem. If anything his 77% Z-contact rate is the thing he could improve upon. I strongly believe that he can do better than that and be in the 90th percentile.
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Post by rickasadoorian on Jul 3, 2024 16:34:51 GMT -5
He's only got a 27.3% chase rate, which puts him in the 54th percentile. Chase rate isn't a problem. If anything his 77% Z-contact rate is the thing he could improve upon. I strongly believe that he can do better than that and be in the 90th percentile. based on what?
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,580
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Post by radiohix on Jul 3, 2024 20:43:22 GMT -5
I strongly believe that he can do better than that and be in the 90th percentile. based on what? Based on feats like this:
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 4, 2024 3:26:44 GMT -5
Based on feats like this: A- Very small sample size B- Not a whole lot out on him. As we all know the longer you play the more they have on you. They find out what pitch you like to chase out of the zone and where that is. They even know when in the count to throw certain pitches. The more experience he gets I do think he will be 75 percentile. That might be 2 years down the road though if he can stay healthy.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 4, 2024 11:36:52 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that!
Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR.
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 4, 2024 11:52:00 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. rooting for Abreu if Rafaela cant do it but fWAR still has Cowser, Wells and Gil ahead. Gil is also ahead in bWAR
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 4, 2024 11:54:59 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. rooting for Abreu if Rafaela cant do it but fWAR still has Cowser, Wells and Gil ahead. Gil is also ahead in bWAR Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t bWAR more accurate for hitters?
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Post by rickasadoorian on Aug 4, 2024 12:03:04 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. forum.soxprospects.com/thread/6827/wilyer-abreu?page=12
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 4, 2024 12:03:40 GMT -5
rooting for Abreu if Rafaela cant do it but fWAR still has Cowser, Wells and Gil ahead. Gil is also ahead in bWAR Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t bWAR more accurate for hitters? Personally I think it’s decidedly worse for hitters. fWAR uses OAA/FRV instead of DRS and incorporates framing for catchers and uses statcast baserunning, and otherwise the offense formula is basically the same. I think there’s a fair debate for pitchers but for hitters I don’t see any reason to use bWAR over fWAR
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 4, 2024 12:08:15 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. forum.soxprospects.com/thread/6827/wilyer-abreu?page=12Well, damn. Search bar let me down. As you were…
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,494
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Post by nomar on Aug 4, 2024 12:51:07 GMT -5
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t bWAR more accurate for hitters? Personally I think it’s decidedly worse for hitters. fWAR uses OAA/FRV instead of DRS and incorporates framing for catchers and uses statcast baserunning, and otherwise the offense formula is basically the same. I think there’s a fair debate for pitchers but for hitters I don’t see any reason to use bWAR over fWAR I frame it as: fWAR for hitters bWAR for pitchers for representation of real life results fWAR for pitchers if trying to project future performance out
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Post by jimmydugan on Aug 4, 2024 12:59:05 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. On D, he has enough range to play RF at Fenway and one of the strongest OF arms in baseball. Despite fairly average speed, he’s a very good base runner He strikes out a lot but has serious power to all fields and can take a walk. Also, he’s pre arb and won’t be a free agent until the 2030 season.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 4, 2024 13:17:58 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. Just merged the threads.
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Post by dcb26 on Aug 4, 2024 14:43:12 GMT -5
If I start hearing BSOHL stories about Abreu in the offseason, I'm picking him to win MVP next year
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 4, 2024 14:46:29 GMT -5
Just searched the forum and couldn’t find a thread about Wilyer. Time to change that! Right by my research, our Trot Nixon reincarnate is leading AL Rookies in WAR. I know he’s about 100 ABs below many of the rookie candidates, but genuinely feel like we have the AL ROY on our hands w/ a 2.2 bWAR. Just merged the threads. Thank you for your service 🫡
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Post by brendan98 on Aug 4, 2024 19:39:19 GMT -5
I love Abreu/Refsnyder as a platoon RF on a championship caliber team! I also believe that is likely Wilyer’s floor as a player, and hope that he can develop into a decent hitter vs LHP and an everyday player, but having Refsnyder on the roster next year is a nice safety net for him and Cora.
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pd
Veteran
Posts: 320
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Post by pd on Aug 4, 2024 19:44:54 GMT -5
I love Abreu/Refsnyder as a platoon RF on a championship caliber team! I also believe that is likely Wilyer’s floor as a player, and hope that he can develop into a decent hitter vs LHP and an everyday player, but having Refsnyder on the roster next year is a nice safety net for him and Cora. First home run against a lefty today, according to the game thread. Very emotional day for him, apparently some bad news family related.
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