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9/2-9/4 Red Sox @ Mets Series Thread
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 3, 2024 22:19:17 GMT -5
Because a lot of your "breakthrough" talent haven't been that productive? You listed a few guys as breakthroughs who are ~1.5 WAR players this year. There's no extra credit for a young guy putting up a 1.5 WAR season instead of an old retread. It may bode well for the future, but it really doesn't drive you towards 90 wins. Duran, Houck and Abreu are the only guys who broke out. And that group was somewhat offset by Casas having an injury plagued 1 WAR season. Duran + Houck + Abreu + Casas in 2023 = 6.0 Duran + Houck + Abreu + Casas in 2024 = 14.0 I mean look, obviously the numbers are what they are and the record is what it is and it must all pencil out somehow. But those three guys alone are a pretty big deal and it's just odd to me that a team that feels like it has a bunch of young guys taking strides and objectively does have young guys taking strides is not somehow doing better than they did last season. ...Actually looking at the WAR totals... they totaled 27 WAR last season and this season they're already at 31.7 despite having 8 fewer wins, so there's something funny going on. Don't know if it's WPA or what and don't feel like looking into it right now but it does seem like they're underperforming where they "should" be in some sense or another.
14 WAR from pre-arby guys + rest of the payroll on free agents with market rate $/win efficiency gets you 85 wins
And yeah they have been pretty unclutch this year on top of it
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Sept 3, 2024 22:22:09 GMT -5
Nut punch of a loss for the MFYs to the Rangers - a walkoff grand salami. A good way to end my evening! Orioles get one more against the White Sox tomorrow, while the Yankees go against Nate. Really do hope Baltimore wins the Division and keeps MFY from a Bye - although if the season ended today they’d be playing the Twins in the Wild Card round, which in recent history is like a bye for them 😅
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 3, 2024 22:29:01 GMT -5
On the other hand, the Twins knocking out the Yankees would be just about the most satisfying non-Sox thing that could happen in the playoffs.
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asm18
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Posts: 2,590
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Post by asm18 on Sept 3, 2024 22:55:50 GMT -5
A’s walk off Mariners… again
Lawrence Butler - 20 HR’s Brent Rooker - 33 HR’s JJ Bleday - 20 HR’s Shea Langaliers - 25 HR’s
Get some pitching and this is a fun little team. Just sucks for the city of Oakland
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Sept 4, 2024 1:42:03 GMT -5
Just leave him alone. He is not required to speak to you, and the press’s aggrieved persistence tells him he really shouldn’t subject himself to it
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Sept 4, 2024 5:44:22 GMT -5
Did you miss the part where he could have said he wasn't going to speak and let these people working on deadlines go about doing their jobs?
No, he doesn't have to speak to the media, but if this account is correct, he was a jerk about it and I have no problem with people calling him out for acting like a jerk.
I know everybody hates the media, but is there another situation where a guy making 30M acts like a jerk to the guy making 30k (whatever, close enough) and people knee jerk defend the guy making 30M?
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Post by Darwin's Curve on Sept 4, 2024 5:47:18 GMT -5
After months and months and months pleading for more starting pitching, when it matters most it’s the offense and bullpen that did us in. It’s a long season and baseball sure has a way of showing a team’s true capabilities. I’m not gonna lie. They had me in the first half. How odd. I've been pleading for a new pitching coach and a new manager for the same amount of time. These guys can hit the ball, and when the whole team is coming up with epic K numbers - it's an approach issue, not a raw talent issue. Likewise, we've always had passible relievers. Pulling Criswell and throwing a 44 year old out on back-to-back days is just the most recent example of poor bullpen decisions. An extra 2 or 3 wins from competent bullpen management would look awfully sweet right now, and may have given the whole team some fire instead of making them play desperate.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 4, 2024 6:34:09 GMT -5
I wouldn't count on him making any big strides. He knows it's bad to swing at the balls a foot outside, he just doesn't see it fast enough.
I think sometimes people act like swinging at a ball in the dirt is like a football coach making a boneheaded punt decision that he had all the time in the world to study for. It's instantaneous reactions.
I long since resigned myself to him being a frustrating watch in the batter's box. But is he a frustrating 100 wRC+ or an infuriating 70 wRC+? Time will tell. So far by month: April: 45 May: 87 June: 97 July: 119 August: 78 This was a good trend until it wasn't. Even August started out hot...
Ya, I thought it would be a stretch for him to be as good offensively as someone like Kiermaier. That seems to be in the upper echelon of what he can be offensively (to me). Still a positive player overall, but I don’t think he’ll ever be a cornerstone player. That extension was the first move by Breslow that gave me significant pause.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 4, 2024 6:35:50 GMT -5
Yeah I’m def not gonna white knight the Boston sports media, the most toxic market in the country since I’ve been born
You get to go to free Sox games every day. Oh you “wanted” Raffy so you can ask him the same hack questions as always? I want a lot of things too. How does it feel to want?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 4, 2024 6:38:01 GMT -5
Just leave him alone. He is not required to speak to you, and the press’s aggrieved persistence tells him he really shouldn’t subject himself to it Something is most likely physically wrong with Devers. The team isn’t going anywhere in the next month, just shut him down. Losing sucks, being mediocre sucks both things are probably not helping his mood at all. Get him right for next year.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 4, 2024 7:06:13 GMT -5
I'm expecting 1 big FA signing and at least 1 trade that is really going to hurt this offseason in an attempt to increase fan expectations for 2025. They need to do something other than just telling fans they're trying. Yeah but we said the same thing last September and they didn’t do either thing Feels like fans are reaching the stage of apathy and just not giving a shit anymore which is worse than them just being angry this time around though. A stage of apathy and overall not caring is about the worst place for a professional team's fanbase to be in. This year just feels different but perhaps there is a sense of wishful thinking going on in my head, at least with the FA. I don't want to see my prediction of a trade that is going to hurt the young pool of talent but if it's the right trade and gets them a shot in the arm from a bonafide MLB stud then it's perhaps time for that plunge.
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briam
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Post by briam on Sept 4, 2024 7:46:29 GMT -5
There’s a laundry list of things you can criticize the Boston media for, patiently waiting to speak with a player that did not inform them he didn’t want to speak isn’t one of them. If you want the big contract, whether you like it or not, you have to deal with the big bad media asking you questions every now and then, or you can at least tell them “no comment.”
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Post by Darwin's Curve on Sept 4, 2024 8:13:39 GMT -5
There’s a laundry list of things you can criticize the Boston media for, patiently waiting to speak with a player that did not inform them he didn’t want to speak isn’t one of them. If you want the big contract, whether you like it or not, you have to deal with the big bad media asking you questions every now and then, or you can at least tell them “no comment.” If you read the tweet carefully: 1) It seems like Devers was having a really bad night. 2) Press told Sox PR they wanted to speak to Devers. There was no promise he would. 3) Devers goes home without speaking to the press. This is, as usual, couched in a vague criticism of the player - their professionalism or whatnot. *** All that said, I agree that if you're getting paid 30M in today's game, there's certainly a component of talking to the media. Maybe not every night, but Devers really isn't the face of the franchise, either publicly, or at the moment on the field. Cora needs to rest the guy and start a 3B who isn't hurting as much as he is.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,590
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Post by asm18 on Sept 4, 2024 8:14:18 GMT -5
Houck vs the Mets #5 starter
Cleveland going for sweep vs Royals
Tigers vs a returning Yu Darvish
Gimme one good day before the off-day & White Sox series & Liam Hendriks/Trevor Story return
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,590
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Post by asm18 on Sept 4, 2024 9:42:44 GMT -5
This is surprising:
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 4, 2024 10:35:20 GMT -5
Yeah but we said the same thing last September and they didn’t do either thing Feels like fans are reaching the stage of apathy and just not giving a shit anymore which is worse than them just being angry this time around though. A stage of apathy and overall not caring is about the worst place for a professional team's fanbase to be in. This year just feels different but perhaps there is a sense of wishful thinking going on in my head, at least with the FA. I don't want to see my prediction of a trade that is going to hurt the young pool of talent but if it's the right trade and gets them a shot in the arm from a bonafide MLB stud then it's perhaps time for that plunge. Sadly fans often reflect their ownership. If the owner is absent and doesn’t really give a damn, why should the fanbase? Mets went through something similar until Cohen took over the team. Hell when this team was owned by JRY/Harrington we lived through a similar time too. The thing is, JWH could do something about it but is choosing not to. Maybe it will change this offseason.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 4, 2024 10:54:20 GMT -5
Feels like fans are reaching the stage of apathy and just not giving a shit anymore which is worse than them just being angry this time around though. A stage of apathy and overall not caring is about the worst place for a professional team's fanbase to be in. This year just feels different but perhaps there is a sense of wishful thinking going on in my head, at least with the FA. I don't want to see my prediction of a trade that is going to hurt the young pool of talent but if it's the right trade and gets them a shot in the arm from a bonafide MLB stud then it's perhaps time for that plunge. Personally for me, I had a bad feeling about this franchise since we traded Mookie. I’ve been unable to care that much because I feel like ownership is also not that invested. The same can be said, sadly, for the soccer team I support which is also owned by Henry. I’m not ungrateful, I appreciate the many years of stability under Henry and the insane success we had, but in the past few years his aversion towards “star” players seem to be getting worse. I respect small market teams and the beautiful ways they remain successful. Boston isn’t a small market team and I refuse to calculate the WAR projections and pitching metrics of every guy we nickel and dime. I have a feeling this is the same for a good portion of the fanbase.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 4, 2024 10:58:11 GMT -5
Houck vs the Mets #5 starter Cleveland going for sweep vs Royals Tigers vs a returning Yu Darvish Gimme one good day before the off-day & White Sox series & Liam Hendriks/Trevor Story return Between injuries and how bad he's been with the bat I don't expect anything from Story.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 4, 2024 11:23:22 GMT -5
My prediction is that the "apathy" will last exactly as long as the team is not winning, and fans will suddenly become "invested" again when the team is good.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 4, 2024 11:25:50 GMT -5
My prediction is that the "apathy" will last exactly as long as the team is not winning, and fans will suddenly become "invested" again when the team is good. Or when John Henry sells the team, whichever comes first.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 4, 2024 11:28:24 GMT -5
Pitching, defense, and timely hitting. This team went into the season with several question marks in that regard, and like always it reared it's ugly head over time.
Going into a season where Whitlock was relied on for anything was an extreme gamble given his health concerns. Houck took a big leap, but then his innings count started to wear him down half-way, same could be said for Kutter, who all things considered has been pretty good minus the long balls. Pivetta is what he is at this point. Criswell was rescued from the land of misfit arms and served ok. Bello has been mediocre all season, and showed his frustration too often when things didn't go his way.
The pen has been over-used but generally ok, all pens are round robins except for 2-3 guys, and ours has been no different.
The defense has been... well, atrocious, catastrophic, porous, calamitous, pick an adjective. Even guys who we would have expected better results from have routinely let us down like O'Neil, Rafeala, etc have been poor, whether because of positioning, or having to play multiple places on the diamond. There are too many guys on this team who can't reliably field their position, which in turn increases the load on the pitching staff.
Hitting.. For a team that could provide so much excitement by just putting the ball in play, they sure do have a problem doing that with any runners on. Being in the same sentence as the Rockies in terms of offensive futility is not a great feeling. Yes, Casas going down for so long hurt, but his return did not provide any lift either. Too many guys have extreme hot/cold streaks (Hamilton, Rafaela, O'Neil, Wong, etc) At this point, the only one who has been consistent offensively all season has been Duran, and he took offensive consistency to a new level by showing he still can't compartmentalize his emotions when he gets heckled.
It was a fun season until it wasn't. Really frustrating because they went into the AS break with so much promise, and they were playing well, only to fall flat on their face as soon as the second half started.
Will they fix it? That is the million dollar question that no one knows.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 4, 2024 11:37:04 GMT -5
Feels like fans are reaching the stage of apathy and just not giving a shit anymore which is worse than them just being angry this time around though. A stage of apathy and overall not caring is about the worst place for a professional team's fanbase to be in. This year just feels different but perhaps there is a sense of wishful thinking going on in my head, at least with the FA. I don't want to see my prediction of a trade that is going to hurt the young pool of talent but if it's the right trade and gets them a shot in the arm from a bonafide MLB stud then it's perhaps time for that plunge. Personally for me, I had a bad feeling about this franchise since we traded Mookie. I’ve been unable to care that much because I feel like ownership is also not that invested. The same can be said, sadly, for the soccer team I support which is also owned by Henry. I’m not ungrateful, I appreciate the many years of stability under Henry and the insane success we had, but in the past few years his aversion towards “star” players seem to be getting worse. I respect small market teams and the beautiful ways they remain successful. Boston isn’t a small market team and I refuse to calculate the WAR projections and pitching metrics of every guy we nickel and dime. I have a feeling this is the same for a good portion of the fanbase. I'm not here to tell you how to feel about the team, but I will say as someone who grew up in the Bay Area and in a primarily A's household, the idea that the Red Sox have been operating anything like a small market team is one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.
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asm18
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Posts: 2,590
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Post by asm18 on Sept 4, 2024 11:37:26 GMT -5
Feels like fans are reaching the stage of apathy and just not giving a shit anymore which is worse than them just being angry this time around though. A stage of apathy and overall not caring is about the worst place for a professional team's fanbase to be in. This year just feels different but perhaps there is a sense of wishful thinking going on in my head, at least with the FA. I don't want to see my prediction of a trade that is going to hurt the young pool of talent but if it's the right trade and gets them a shot in the arm from a bonafide MLB stud then it's perhaps time for that plunge. Personally for me, I had a bad feeling about this franchise since we traded Mookie. I’ve been unable to care that much because I feel like ownership is also not that invested. The same can be said, sadly, for the soccer team I support which is also owned by Henry. I’m not ungrateful, I appreciate the many years of stability under Henry and the insane success we had, but in the past few years his aversion towards “star” players seem to be getting worse. I respect small market teams and the beautiful ways they remain successful. Boston isn’t a small market team and I refuse to calculate the WAR projections and pitching metrics of every guy we nickel and dime. I have a feeling this is the same for a good portion of the fanbase. I have friends and family who are in this boat. They'll watch the Sox for a stretch if they're playing well, go to a game or two a year because Fenway is fun. I sometimes wish I had that level of emotional detachment, because waking up each morning like a baseball Sisyphus newly convinced that they can go on a run and make the playoffs is probably not ideal from a sanity perspective
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Sept 4, 2024 11:43:22 GMT -5
My prediction is that the "apathy" will last exactly as long as the team is not winning, and fans will suddenly become "invested" again when the team is good. Fan since 1969 and I have suffered through some pretty bad stretches of Sox teams. Early 80, early 90's in which I checked out for a good stretch of time. What will keep me hanging around and engaged is the hope of the 6 top 100 prospects. The home grown pitching got me back in the 80's, Vaughn, Nomar and Valentine in the 90's. Hope this new wave added to the group already in Boston creates that excitement again.
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 4, 2024 12:02:36 GMT -5
Personally for me, I had a bad feeling about this franchise since we traded Mookie. I’ve been unable to care that much because I feel like ownership is also not that invested. The same can be said, sadly, for the soccer team I support which is also owned by Henry. I’m not ungrateful, I appreciate the many years of stability under Henry and the insane success we had, but in the past few years his aversion towards “star” players seem to be getting worse. I respect small market teams and the beautiful ways they remain successful. Boston isn’t a small market team and I refuse to calculate the WAR projections and pitching metrics of every guy we nickel and dime. I have a feeling this is the same for a good portion of the fanbase. I'm not here to tell you how to feel about the team, but I will say as someone who grew up in the Bay Area and in a primarily A's household, the idea that the Red Sox have been operating anything like a small market team is one of the funniest things I've heard in a while. You mean the Oakland Sacramento LasVegas A's
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