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9/2-9/4 Red Sox @ Mets Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 3, 2024 6:40:41 GMT -5
What I'd like to see more than "tanking" is a practically empty Fenway Park in September as the Red Sox have absolutely nothing to play for as they continue to lose. I'm not rooting for them to lose. They just are and I dont see anything that's going to change that, even the White Sox who I think will win a game at Fenway.
Maybe that would speak to ownership that these self imposed budgetary restrictions resulting in not enough quality roster depth and/or star power for 5 nothing seasons out of the past 6 seasons aren't working.
But they'll probably get a good deal of traveling road team fans, generate revenue from that, and consider that s success, as the team lurches toward 78-84 again.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 3, 2024 7:21:27 GMT -5
What I'd like to see more than "tanking" is a practically empty Fenway Park in September as the Red Sox have absolutely nothing to play for as they continue to lose. I'm not rooting for them to lose. They just are and I dont see anything that's going to change that, even the White Sox who I think will win a game at Fenway. Maybe that would speak to ownership that these self imposed budgetary restrictions resulting in not enough quality roster depth and/or star power for 5 nothing seasons out of the past 6 seasons aren't working.But they'll probably get a good deal of traveling road team fans, generate revenue from that, and consider that s success, as the team lurches toward 78-84 again. The Red Sox are among the leaders in the league in WAR produced by pre-arb players. They also have 4 top-100 prospects in AAA. Meanwhile, their most expensive free agent additions, Story, Yoshida, and Giolito, have combined for less WAR than David Hamilton. And the big money free agent everyone wanted them to spend $100 million on last offseason is a pitcher with an ERA over 6 who has just been demoted to the bullpen.
This doesn't exactly suggest that their problem has been self-imposed budgetary restrictions, right? It might suggest that they've been bad/unlucky in how they've spent that money. In any case, if I was Red Sox ownership I'd look at the last few years, and the performance of the young players, and the state of the farm system, and think that continuing to build around cheap young talent was the way to go.
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 3, 2024 8:38:38 GMT -5
What I'd like to see more than "tanking" is a practically empty Fenway Park in September as the Red Sox have absolutely nothing to play for as they continue to lose. I'm not rooting for them to lose. They just are and I dont see anything that's going to change that, even the White Sox who I think will win a game at Fenway. Maybe that would speak to ownership that these self imposed budgetary restrictions resulting in not enough quality roster depth and/or star power for 5 nothing seasons out of the past 6 seasons aren't working. But they'll probably get a good deal of traveling road team fans, generate revenue from that, and consider that s success, as the team lurches toward 78-84 again. Keep in mind the new timeline in baseball. Intentionally or unintentionally free agency has drifted into Jan/Feb rather than the Thanksgiving rush of years past. Now we have.... - Team talks big during the fall months "full-throttle". etc - Tickets go on sale prior to the Holiday season - Families optimistically purchase tickets as gifts for loved ones - Free agent season commences Fans are buying tickets with hopeful enthusiasm that the coming season will be "the year". Hard working families are spending upwards of $500 (family of 4). To expect them to throw those tickets in the trash because the team has nothing to play for is unrealistic. Instead they make the best of it and spend another couple hundred bucks for gas/parking/food. Owners laugh their way to the bank. If fans want to make a statement it needs to be this fall when tickets go on sale. But of course this fall they will be talking about the wave of top prospects ready to descend on Boston and everyone will be buying tickets because 2025 might be "the year".......lather/rinse/repeat
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Post by rhswanzey on Sept 3, 2024 8:46:12 GMT -5
Our fourth and sixth most valuable pitchers by bWAR are minor league free agent signings (our eighth and ninth are rule 5 picks).
Our eighth most valuable pitcher by bWAR threw 18.1ip.
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Post by patford on Sept 3, 2024 9:44:36 GMT -5
Devers is literally playing thru shoulder (both shoulders) injury. It would not shock me to see him get surgery this offseason Then Cora needs to put on his big-boy pants and sit him. Just one more reason why the Sox should have sold at the deadline. At least they really only lost Portes getting essentially nothing in return. There's also the fact they could have gotten something for Jansen and maybe for O'Neil so that's a loss. My guess is Breslow probably wanted to sell but were feeling the pressure from fans and media so took the Bloom route of trying to address areas of need while doing as little harm as possible.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,589
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Post by asm18 on Sept 3, 2024 9:52:20 GMT -5
Then Cora needs to put on his big-boy pants and sit him. Just one more reason why the Sox should have sold at the deadline. At least they really only lost Portes getting essentially nothing in return. There's also the fact they could have gotten something for Jansen and maybe for O'Neil so that's a loss. My guess is Breslow probably wanted to sell but were feeling the pressure from fans and media so took the Bloom route of trying to address areas of need while doing as little harm as possible. I mean they've played like crap, had what looks to be a pukeworthy deadline, Devers looks like his shoulders are going to fall off... and yet they're still the first team out of an AL playoff spot, at 4 games back in the loss column. If they were even just 4 or 5 games under .500 since the second half (which is still bad) instead of 8 under .500 since the second half, we'd be having a different conversation. That's how do-able this was - which makes it all extra frustrating.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 3, 2024 9:57:26 GMT -5
I have 0 issues with how the deadline was handled, if they'd just been playing poor baseball instead of terrible baseball the last few weeks they're in the playoffs. The path was right there for the taking, obviously the power of hindsight shows they could have done differently but you'll always have that pretty much.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 3, 2024 10:27:27 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 3, 2024 10:40:07 GMT -5
Absolute the worst time for the entire offense t fall of a cliff
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 3, 2024 10:49:20 GMT -5
What I'd like to see more than "tanking" is a practically empty Fenway Park in September as the Red Sox have absolutely nothing to play for as they continue to lose. I'm not rooting for them to lose. They just are and I dont see anything that's going to change that, even the White Sox who I think will win a game at Fenway. Maybe that would speak to ownership that these self imposed budgetary restrictions resulting in not enough quality roster depth and/or star power for 5 nothing seasons out of the past 6 seasons aren't working.But they'll probably get a good deal of traveling road team fans, generate revenue from that, and consider that s success, as the team lurches toward 78-84 again. The Red Sox are among the leaders in the league in WAR produced by pre-arb players. They also have 4 top-100 prospects in AAA. Meanwhile, their most expensive free agent additions, Story, Yoshida, and Giolito, have combined for less WAR than David Hamilton. And the big money free agent everyone wanted them to spend $100 million on last offseason is a pitcher with an ERA over 6 who has just been demoted to the bullpen.
This doesn't exactly suggest that their problem has been self-imposed budgetary restrictions, right? It might suggest that they've been bad/unlucky in how they've spent that money. In any case, if I was Red Sox ownership I'd look at the last few years, and the performance of the young players, and the state of the farm system, and think that continuing to build around cheap young talent was the way to go.
The benefit of…….“the performance of the young players, and the state of the farm system, and think that continuing to build around cheap young talent was the way to go”…..is that you have 7 years of controllability AND low cost AND young players trying to prove themselves and have desire. Conversely, the trade to get Sale was costly in prospects (won a WS), but he would have been gone in three year or a big money contract. Again building from draft, IFA, and trades gives you 1) controllability, 2) low cost, 3) hungry players.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 3, 2024 11:19:51 GMT -5
What I'd like to see more than "tanking" is a practically empty Fenway Park in September as the Red Sox have absolutely nothing to play for as they continue to lose. I'm not rooting for them to lose. They just are and I dont see anything that's going to change that, even the White Sox who I think will win a game at Fenway. Maybe that would speak to ownership that these self imposed budgetary restrictions resulting in not enough quality roster depth and/or star power for 5 nothing seasons out of the past 6 seasons aren't working. But they'll probably get a good deal of traveling road team fans, generate revenue from that, and consider that s success, as the team lurches toward 78-84 again. Keep in mind the new timeline in baseball. Intentionally or unintentionally free agency has drifted into Jan/Feb rather than the Thanksgiving rush of years past. Now we have.... - Team talks big during the fall months "full-throttle". etc - Tickets go on sale prior to the Holiday season - Families optimistically purchase tickets as gifts for loved ones - Free agent season commences Fans are buying tickets with hopeful enthusiasm that the coming season will be "the year". Hard working families are spending upwards of $500 (family of 4). To expect them to throw those tickets in the trash because the team has nothing to play for is unrealistic. Instead they make the best of it and spend another couple hundred bucks for gas/parking/food. Owners laugh their way to the bank. If fans want to make a statement it needs to be this fall when tickets go on sale. But of course this fall they will be talking about the wave of top prospects ready to descend on Boston and everyone will be buying tickets because 2025 might be "the year".......lather/rinse/repeat Excellent point, unfortunately. I guess if it matters, having NESN's ratings go into the toilet might be the only thing of some impact. I'd be lying if I said my eyes were riveted to the game. Frankly, I flip channels and miss a lot more of the game than I see.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 3, 2024 11:37:49 GMT -5
What I'd like to see more than "tanking" is a practically empty Fenway Park in September as the Red Sox have absolutely nothing to play for as they continue to lose. I'm not rooting for them to lose. They just are and I dont see anything that's going to change that, even the White Sox who I think will win a game at Fenway. Maybe that would speak to ownership that these self imposed budgetary restrictions resulting in not enough quality roster depth and/or star power for 5 nothing seasons out of the past 6 seasons aren't working.But they'll probably get a good deal of traveling road team fans, generate revenue from that, and consider that s success, as the team lurches toward 78-84 again. The Red Sox are among the leaders in the league in WAR produced by pre-arb players. They also have 4 top-100 prospects in AAA. Meanwhile, their most expensive free agent additions, Story, Yoshida, and Giolito, have combined for less WAR than David Hamilton. And the big money free agent everyone wanted them to spend $100 million on last offseason is a pitcher with an ERA over 6 who has just been demoted to the bullpen.
This doesn't exactly suggest that their problem has been self-imposed budgetary restrictions, right? It might suggest that they've been bad/unlucky in how they've spent that money. In any case, if I was Red Sox ownership I'd look at the last few years, and the performance of the young players, and the state of the farm system, and think that continuing to build around cheap young talent was the way to go.
Not necessarily. I mean, yes, bad to middling investments in Story and Yoshida. But those are hardly top of the line free agents. Not trying to specifically get into the tired Mookie thing but it's more expensive to shop at the top of the market than the second tier like Story or Yoshida but a 1st tier free agent the caliber of Mookie is worth spending the extra dollars if need be. That only speaks to the free quality they're chasing. The Sox used to be in on the Manny or Mookie level free agents. Then there is the question of how much budget they should be willing to set. Just because they draw the line at under the luxury tax line more years than not these days doesn't make it necessarily the correct action to take. Especially since I'm talking free agents, I'm not even talking just about the failure of not fishing at the top of the market, but rather eschewing the depth pickups that you yourself bemoaned, Incandenza. They trade Sale and replace him with Giolito with Criswell as their only depth option worth a damn. For a team with pitching issues that wasnt enough. Every year its complained about how many innings are going to the Trey Wingenters or whoever the hell elses that skew their pitching numbers because they're that bad. That's all baked into the decision not to spend like they used to. I get the need to duck under every 3rd year although I think they print money and can withstand that if they had to, but ok, I accept them ducking under. In no way shape or form do I take any issue with building thru the farm. Every team, big markets included, should make that the cornerstone of their franchise. So I have no desire to see the impact youngsters go in trades to bring on pricey veterans. Use the deep pockets to do that or surplus prospects. The Sox are capable of having the best of both worlds. If it takes money well above the first luxury tax line to do it, then do it. To be fair, I do absolve the Sox of not signing Montgomery but not because he sucked this year. That was 100% on Boras, a guy who does not always act in his client's best interest and certainly didnt this past offseason. Montgomery should have been more proactive is his own decision making but some of these guys are truly sheep, sit back, and let their agent dictate where they go. Missing spring training wrecked his year. I get by now it should have dissipated but sometimes when you get on that steep tumble downstairs it doesnt stop, kind of like Rich Gedman in 1987.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 3, 2024 11:48:55 GMT -5
Richard Fitts is Rule 5 eligible this November, so why not get him a few starts before the end of the year.
SI: “Richard Fitts on Monday tossed one of his most dominant performances since the Red Sox acquired him from the Yankees in the Alex Verdugo trade last offseason,” Smith said.
“The 24-year-old righty allowed just two hits and no walks while striking out five in 6 scoreless innings. He recorded 20 swings and misses against Rochester batters in Triple-A Worcester’s 3-1 win.”
Rochester is the team that Worcester is competing with for the division title in the second half and has some decent talent, so Fitts’ quality start was against decent competition.
The Red Sox could push back the rotation starters to give them an extra day of rest and insert Fitts into the rotation the rest of the year. We are talking 4 or 5 starts. If not in the Mets series then next.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 3, 2024 11:55:20 GMT -5
Richard Fitts is Rule 5 eligible this November, so why not get him a few starts before the end of the year.SI: “Richard Fitts on Monday tossed one of his most dominant performances since the Red Sox acquired him from the Yankees in the Alex Verdugo trade last offseason,” Smith said. “The 24-year-old righty allowed just two hits and no walks while striking out five in 6 scoreless innings. He recorded 20 swings and misses against Rochester batters in Triple-A Worcester’s 3-1 win.” The Red Sox could push back the starters to give them an extra day of rest and insert Fitts into the rotation the rest of the year. We are talking 4 or 5 starts. If not in the Mets series then next. I'd be plenty happy if they got Fitts a cup of coffee, doesn't even need to be as an SP. It'd be nice to see if his stuff can play up out of the BP, not saying to remove him completely as a SP but his FB/SL combo has appealed to me as a power BP arm ever since they acquired him.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 3, 2024 12:04:12 GMT -5
The Red Sox are among the leaders in the league in WAR produced by pre-arb players. They also have 4 top-100 prospects in AAA. Meanwhile, their most expensive free agent additions, Story, Yoshida, and Giolito, have combined for less WAR than David Hamilton. And the big money free agent everyone wanted them to spend $100 million on last offseason is a pitcher with an ERA over 6 who has just been demoted to the bullpen.
This doesn't exactly suggest that their problem has been self-imposed budgetary restrictions, right? It might suggest that they've been bad/unlucky in how they've spent that money. In any case, if I was Red Sox ownership I'd look at the last few years, and the performance of the young players, and the state of the farm system, and think that continuing to build around cheap young talent was the way to go.
Not necessarily. I mean, yes, bad to middling investments in Story and Yoshida. But those are hardly top of the line free agents. Not trying to specifically get into the tired Mookie thing but it's more expensive to shop at the top of the market than the second tier like Story or Yoshida but a 1st tier free agent the caliber of Mookie is worth spending the extra dollars if need be. That only speaks to the free quality they're chasing. The Sox used to be in on the Manny or Mookie level free agents. Then there is the question of how much budget they should be willing to set. Just because they draw the line at under the luxury tax line more years than not these days doesn't make it necessarily the correct action to take. Especially since I'm talking free agents, I'm not even talking just about the failure of not fishing at the top of the market, but rather eschewing the depth pickups that you yourself bemoaned, Incandenza. They trade Sale and replace him with Giolito with Criswell as their only depth option worth a damn. For a team with pitching issues that wasnt enough. Every year its complained about how many innings are going to the Trey Wingenters or whoever the hell elses that skew their pitching numbers because they're that bad. That's all baked into the decision not to spend like they used to. I get the need to duck under every 3rd year although I think they print money and can withstand that if they had to, but ok, I accept them ducking under. In no way shape or form do I take any issue with building thru the farm. Every team, big markets included, should make that the cornerstone of their franchise. So I have no desire to see the impact youngsters go in trades to bring on pricey veterans. Use the deep pockets to do that or surplus prospects. The Sox are capable of having the best of both worlds. If it takes money well above the first luxury tax line to do it, then do it. To be fair, I do absolve the Sox of not signing Montgomery but not because he sucked this year. That was 100% on Boras, a guy who does not always act in his client's best interest and certainly didnt this past offseason. Montgomery should have been more proactive is his own decision making but some of these guys are truly sheep, sit back, and let their agent dictate where they go. Missing spring training wrecked his year. I get by now it should have dissipated but sometimes when you get on that steep tumble downstairs it doesnt stop, kind of like Rich Gedman in 1987. If Whitlock and Giolito do not get hurt, then the Red Sox have plenty of starter depth. To say the Red Sox did not sign enough players in the offseason is to have the benefit of hindsight the FO could not have had then. There has been no reason to shop at the high end of the market while the rebuild is not complete. The 2020 - 2024 teams were not good enough to win a WS. It amazes me how easy it is for “fans” to spend other people’s money (we are talking 9 figure contracts). Next year the arrival of 3 top 30 (in all of baseball) prospects will arrive. If the FO does not spend then, you will have a legitimate complaint. They can spend on fresh, new high end pitching instead of guys in year 3 and 4 of a 9 figure contract that are not as good as when Red Sox fans whined for them during a non-competitive period.
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 3, 2024 12:04:26 GMT -5
Richard Fitts is Rule 5 eligible this November, so why not get him a few starts before the end of the year.SI: “Richard Fitts on Monday tossed one of his most dominant performances since the Red Sox acquired him from the Yankees in the Alex Verdugo trade last offseason,” Smith said. “The 24-year-old righty allowed just two hits and no walks while striking out five in 6 scoreless innings. He recorded 20 swings and misses against Rochester batters in Triple-A Worcester’s 3-1 win.” The Red Sox could push back the starters to give them an extra day of rest and insert Fitts into the rotation the rest of the year. We are talking 4 or 5 starts. If not in the Mets series then next. I'd be plenty happy if they got Fitts a cup of coffee, doesn't even need to be as an SP. It'd be nice to see if his stuff can play up out of the BP, not saying to remove him completely as a SP but his FB/SL combo has appealed to me as a power BP arm ever since they acquired him. Definitely should see if Richard Fitts
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Sept 3, 2024 12:08:54 GMT -5
Richard Fitts is Rule 5 eligible this November, so why not get him a few starts before the end of the year. SI: “Richard Fitts on Monday tossed one of his most dominant performances since the Red Sox acquired him from the Yankees in the Alex Verdugo trade last offseason,” Smith said. “The 24-year-old righty allowed just two hits and no walks while striking out five in 6 scoreless innings. He recorded 20 swings and misses against Rochester batters in Triple-A Worcester’s 3-1 win.” The Red Sox could push back the starters to give them an extra day of rest and insert Fitts into the rotation the rest of the year. We are talking 4 or 5 starts. If not in the Mets series then next. Good idea. It is really the offense and fielding letting the team down right now and Sox are not playoff bound unless those aspects improve. Adding Fitts, maybe even Priester, would save some post season bullets for the regular starters in the event the team finds a way to make a run and get in.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,589
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Post by asm18 on Sept 3, 2024 12:17:04 GMT -5
Missed this from last night - is Pete Abe the only one saying Story could be back as soon as this upcoming weekend?
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Post by orion09 on Sept 3, 2024 13:55:39 GMT -5
Not necessarily. I mean, yes, bad to middling investments in Story and Yoshida. But those are hardly top of the line free agents. Not trying to specifically get into the tired Mookie thing but it's more expensive to shop at the top of the market than the second tier like Story or Yoshida but a 1st tier free agent the caliber of Mookie is worth spending the extra dollars if need be. That only speaks to the free quality they're chasing. The Sox used to be in on the Manny or Mookie level free agents. Then there is the question of how much budget they should be willing to set. Just because they draw the line at under the luxury tax line more years than not these days doesn't make it necessarily the correct action to take. Especially since I'm talking free agents, I'm not even talking just about the failure of not fishing at the top of the market, but rather eschewing the depth pickups that you yourself bemoaned, Incandenza. They trade Sale and replace him with Giolito with Criswell as their only depth option worth a damn. For a team with pitching issues that wasnt enough. Every year its complained about how many innings are going to the Trey Wingenters or whoever the hell elses that skew their pitching numbers because they're that bad. That's all baked into the decision not to spend like they used to. I get the need to duck under every 3rd year although I think they print money and can withstand that if they had to, but ok, I accept them ducking under. In no way shape or form do I take any issue with building thru the farm. Every team, big markets included, should make that the cornerstone of their franchise. So I have no desire to see the impact youngsters go in trades to bring on pricey veterans. Use the deep pockets to do that or surplus prospects. The Sox are capable of having the best of both worlds. If it takes money well above the first luxury tax line to do it, then do it. To be fair, I do absolve the Sox of not signing Montgomery but not because he sucked this year. That was 100% on Boras, a guy who does not always act in his client's best interest and certainly didnt this past offseason. Montgomery should have been more proactive is his own decision making but some of these guys are truly sheep, sit back, and let their agent dictate where they go. Missing spring training wrecked his year. I get by now it should have dissipated but sometimes when you get on that steep tumble downstairs it doesnt stop, kind of like Rich Gedman in 1987. If Whitlock and Giolito do not get hurt, then the Red Sox have plenty of starter depth. To say the Red Sox did not sign enough players in the offseason is to have the benefit of hindsight the FO could not have had then. I mean, how often does a team have all five of its starting pitchers healthy and effective? Especially when this rotation going into the season had so many question marks (Houck, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta), players with injury histories (Whitlock), and guys who couldn’t be counted on to eat innings (Houck, Crawford).I generally feel it’s safe to assume that at any given point, 1-2 guys from *any* starting rotation will be hurt and/or ineffective… you need depth.
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Post by okin15 on Sept 3, 2024 14:10:01 GMT -5
The Sox had 6 guys for five spots, plus Criswell. They also traded for Paxton. It's been a rough couple of weeks though. They've been so bad it's depressing.
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Post by bishop on Sept 3, 2024 14:53:32 GMT -5
Missed this from last night - is Pete Abe the only one saying Story could be back as soon as this upcoming weekend? As long as he's not sore or going less than 100% to ramp up I'd be fine bringing him up today just to get some vet leadership in the clubhouse and in the infield even if he has no timing. Would love Valdez, or Gaspar, or even Grissom to succeed as well but Valdez is 1/10 since he went down in early July and Gaspar is 0/12, at least Story can field and he does seem to stabilize some things on a team without the most vocal veterans in his absence.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,589
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Post by asm18 on Sept 3, 2024 15:20:48 GMT -5
Refsnyder LF, Duran CF, O’Neill RF, Devers 3B, Gonzalez 1B, Yoshida DH, Jansen, C, Rafaela SS, Sogard 2B
I kinda like the tweaks - Duran has been their best offensive player for a while, and putting him in the two hole hopefully gives him more opportunities to drive runs in instead of merely getting on as the leadoff guy
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Post by orion09 on Sept 3, 2024 15:22:45 GMT -5
The Sox had 6 guys for five spots, plus Criswell. They also traded for Paxton. It's been a rough couple of weeks though. They've been so bad it's depressing. Six guys isn’t enough, you really need seven IMO. That was also the general feeling here last offseason. People wanted two additional SP - then they traded Sale, replaced him with Giolito, and never added anyone else. Not to belabor the point - this is all well-trod ground.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 3, 2024 15:42:18 GMT -5
Not necessarily. I mean, yes, bad to middling investments in Story and Yoshida. But those are hardly top of the line free agents. Not trying to specifically get into the tired Mookie thing but it's more expensive to shop at the top of the market than the second tier like Story or Yoshida but a 1st tier free agent the caliber of Mookie is worth spending the extra dollars if need be. That only speaks to the free quality they're chasing. The Sox used to be in on the Manny or Mookie level free agents. Then there is the question of how much budget they should be willing to set. Just because they draw the line at under the luxury tax line more years than not these days doesn't make it necessarily the correct action to take. Especially since I'm talking free agents, I'm not even talking just about the failure of not fishing at the top of the market, but rather eschewing the depth pickups that you yourself bemoaned, Incandenza. They trade Sale and replace him with Giolito with Criswell as their only depth option worth a damn. For a team with pitching issues that wasnt enough. Every year its complained about how many innings are going to the Trey Wingenters or whoever the hell elses that skew their pitching numbers because they're that bad. That's all baked into the decision not to spend like they used to. I get the need to duck under every 3rd year although I think they print money and can withstand that if they had to, but ok, I accept them ducking under. In no way shape or form do I take any issue with building thru the farm. Every team, big markets included, should make that the cornerstone of their franchise. So I have no desire to see the impact youngsters go in trades to bring on pricey veterans. Use the deep pockets to do that or surplus prospects. The Sox are capable of having the best of both worlds. If it takes money well above the first luxury tax line to do it, then do it. To be fair, I do absolve the Sox of not signing Montgomery but not because he sucked this year. That was 100% on Boras, a guy who does not always act in his client's best interest and certainly didnt this past offseason. Montgomery should have been more proactive is his own decision making but some of these guys are truly sheep, sit back, and let their agent dictate where they go. Missing spring training wrecked his year. I get by now it should have dissipated but sometimes when you get on that steep tumble downstairs it doesnt stop, kind of like Rich Gedman in 1987. If Whitlock and Giolito do not get hurt, then the Red Sox have plenty of starter depth. To say the Red Sox did not sign enough players in the offseason is to have the benefit of hindsight the FO could not have had then. There has been no reason to shop at the high end of the market while the rebuild is not complete. The 2020 - 2024 teams were not good enough to win a WS. It amazes me how easy it is for “fans” to spend other people’s money (we are talking 9 figure contracts). Next year the arrival of 3 top 30 (in all of baseball) prospects will arrive. If the FO does not spend then, you will have a legitimate complaint. They can spend on fresh, new high end pitching instead of guys in year 3 and 4 of a 9 figure contract that are not as good as when Red Sox fans whined for them during a non-competitive period. You're right. How silly of me to want to see the Sox spend money when they have such a paycheck to paycheck existence. Thankfully they have people like you looking out for their billionaire profits as the Red Sox business is struggling so mightily. And you think relying on Whitlock with his injury history was a sound strategy? Injuries are not unique to just our poor Red Sox. Plenty of other teams win despite them. Nobody is bitching about the Sox not winning a World Series since 2018. The complaining is about missing the playoffs 5 years out of 6 during a time where 40% of the league makes the playoffs. It's becoming quite a lengthy rebuild. So you have to wait until that one point every decade where the system is producing to spend money? And I'm not talking about throwing it around like a drunken sailor giving Xander 280 million or something insane like that. I'm talking about the idea that if the system is in a fallow period and you're a big market team you're supposed go 78-84 every year or hope for a big overachiever year like 2021, that you can't spend what it takes to be a top 40% team while you wait for the system to finally develop? I mean, I certainly dont advocate trading their top kids, but it will take them awhile to develop in the majors and hit their stride so you supplement them and give them something stable to come into. The 2007 youth brigade of Pedroia, Kester, Papelbon, Ellsbury, Youks, and Buchholz had Manny and Ortiz and Schilling and other very high priced top notch talent around when they broke in. The Sox were hardly a juggernaut when they signed Manny. Should they have waited until 2007 to get a talent like that? I dont think it needs to be 1 way or the other. If you have a big market team, exploit that advantage, whether its top tier talent or getting as much quality depth as possible. Its simply not acceptable for the Sox to miss the playoffs five years out of six.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 3, 2024 16:14:40 GMT -5
I just don't get it. The Sox have had 1 playoff run in the last 6 years (although the book hasn't been closed for this year, we can only hope). I get taken aback at the leeway given by some folks in this regard.
This rebuild has taken too long. It has been unnessarily prolonged by the slow deconstruction of the 2018 squad and an aversion to signing top free agents and / or the FA signings we made have underpeformed. Sorry to knock Story, but it has been a bad outcome on resource management thus far.
Nobody expects to win WS every year, or 1 every 5 or so years, which he have been unbelievably lucky to have happened. But that doesn't mean you cant make the playoffs every every year, or other year....something more than 1 every 6 years for a franchise this rich and with a voracious fan base appetite for winning.
Just relying on prospects and or lower level signings just is not gonna do it. It can happen, but the odds are long.
There is too much talent spread across the league. More has to be done in the FA market to build / keep a playoff level club.
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