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Predicting The 2025 Opening Day Roster
keninten
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Post by keninten on Oct 13, 2024 1:40:50 GMT -5
Alright so let's see where the tradeable landscape is with the top of the rotation starter land is in 2025- Michael King Crochet Anyone else got any more suggestions? Mayer will cost you Crochet. I hesitate, but I'm willing to give that up as a last option. I don't want to do that, however. Abreu is a guy that produced defensively and offensively more than what you could expect in your wildest dreams in 2024. Everyone is talking about taking advantage of Duran's high trade value, but same could be said about Abreu. He wasn't a top 100 prospect at any point in his career. While Duran was, and had the pedigree of being that type of player. I'd 100 percent bet on Duran repeating a lot of his closer success of his offensive and defensive success versus Abreu. Abreu will probably repeat the defensive side, but no one can guarantee the offensive side. That and you got to give to get. You got to be the best offer on the table to get one of those top of rotation types. A top 3 rookie of year candidate with 5 years control? At a position of need of one of their free agent holes? Yeah that can get you King I think. No ones arguing against that. Everyone's arguing that's too much to give. Again, welcome to the world of contending. What is the worst you're willing to give up to get that? This is the off-season to give it up. The front office, the ownership, the whole franchise sounds like they're ready to go all out to get there. So get ready for the hurt folks. I think I threw out some names before, but here's an extended list: King, Crochet, Kirby, Gilbert, Miller, Webb, Gallen, Alcantara, Gray, Luzardo, Woo, Steele, Lodolo, Imanaga, Gausman, Lopez, Valdez, Lugo, Eflin, Cease, Civale, Manaea, probably some others but these are guys who weren't on playoff teams or are a year away from free agency. Not all of these guys are guys I'd necessarily want, or are guys who will be traded, but are guys who are considered a 1-3 starter. Probably forgot some guys. Manaea can opt out. Pretty sure he`ll turned down the $13.5 mil option. He`ll be 33, so I`d go 3 years. When the guys coming up now could start getting costly, he`ll be coming off the books. That`s one of the reasons I don`t want a long-term deal for a SP. No more Mookie purges. Devers and a few other big contracts like his are all they can afford to stay relevant for a long-sustained run. The #2`s and #3`s are who I`d target. Combined that with a very good BP. I`ve always been fine not spending much on the BP but I`m coming around to getting 5 or 6 guys there with the money that normally would go towards a #1. If they also signed, say, Flaherty, the SP depth would allow some guys to miss starts and work a little out of the BP to keep them fresh. Unless injuries take a toll.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 13, 2024 6:15:55 GMT -5
I do wonder if the rumors of several teams looking to trim payroll will make for a good buyers market for the Sox. Maybe they forgo FA for the most part and can trade from the depth in their farm for at least some of their needs. Mainly RHH thump, front/mid rotation SP, BP help, who knows maybe even a C who is good enough to at least play 50/50 with wong while Teel develops.
It's hard to find any other team who may have as much to spend as the sox do. As we know FA isn't the only avenue to flex their financial flexibility. Looking forward to the hot stove heating up this year, assuming it actually does and we don't get a redo of last year anyway.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Oct 13, 2024 7:05:15 GMT -5
Apparently Kim is hoping to be back by mid april-may from shoulder surgery. He's a guy who won't need a mega contract. Could be an option, especially if they really want to improve that defense. Not necessarily arguing for him one way or another but there's only so many FAs worthy of actually spending decent money on this year especially if they truly do have 60+M to spend. Another guy who could make Mayer or Campbell expendable for pitching, once again not that I'm arguing for that but just throwing it out since I don't think I've seen Kim really mentioned. He's certainly interesting and worthy of discussion especially in the undervalued off the radar type player. Never mind Mayer for the moment, we still have Story who for now at least appears healthy heading into an off-season AND his contract is not moveable and we have several viable candidates at second base between Grissom who also appears healthy heading into the offseason and the Minor league player of the year in Campbell. I don't see how Kim fits, more importantly I think this underscores that if we were to trade on of the big four the players, Mayer appears to be the best candidate to do so. (EDIT-added this) I think I mentioned this here several months ago, that the earliest I can foresee the Sox being able to move Story would be after a healthy 2025 season AND even then we'd have to pay a considerable amount of his salary. At that point it becomes debatable if you'd even want to but that's a story, pun intended, for another day. Campbell's meteoric rise reminds me, not necessarily comparing, just reminds me of another prospect now playing for the Dodgers and I'd really like to see how he does for at least another short period of time before I'd seriously even think about trading him. Of the big 4, the two I'd least entertain trading are Anthony and Campbell and I get the feeling Teel is less likely to get you what it would be worth to trade him. Mind you I'm not endorsing trading Mayer just pointing out he's the most likely piece to trade should they go that route. If we are to trade any of our top prospects I'm also more inclined to do so at next years trade deadline. Therefore I'm more inclined to trade pieces already in Boston during this off-season. This is based on those pieces are a more known commodity and the prospects are more likely to increase in value and yes I understand that there is a decent chance that that is not true but I think those risks are less than 50% and worth taking.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 13, 2024 7:16:19 GMT -5
Apparently Kim is hoping to be back by mid april-may from shoulder surgery. He's a guy who won't need a mega contract. Could be an option, especially if they really want to improve that defense. Not necessarily arguing for him one way or another but there's only so many FAs worthy of actually spending decent money on this year especially if they truly do have 60+M to spend. Another guy who could make Mayer or Campbell expendable for pitching, once again not that I'm arguing for that but just throwing it out since I don't think I've seen Kim really mentioned. He's certainly interesting and worthy of discussion especially in the undervalued off the radar type player. Never mind Mayer for the moment, we still have Story who for now at least appears healthy heading into an off-season AND his contract is not moveable and we have several viable candidates at second base between Grissom who also appears healthy heading into the offseason and the Minor league player of the year in Campbell. I don't see how Kim fits, more importantly I think this underscores that if we were to trade on of the big four the players, Mayer appears to be the best candidate to do so. (EDIT-added this) I think I mentioned this here several months ago, that the earliest I can foresee the Sox being able to move Story would be after a healthy 2025 season AND even then we'd have to pay a considerable of his salary. At that point it becomes debatable if you'd even want to but that's a story, pun intended, for another day. Campbell's meteoric rise reminds me, not necessarily comparing, just reminds me of another prospect now playing for the Dodgers and I'd really like to see how he does for at least another short period of time before I'd seriously even think about trading him. Of the big 4, the two I'd least entertain trading are Anthony and Campbell and I get the feeling Teel is less likely to get you what it would be worth to trade him. Mind you I'm not endorsing trading Mayer just pointing out he's the most likely piece to trade should they go that route. If we are to trade any of our top prospects I'm also more inclined to do so at next years trade deadline. Therefore I'm more inclined to trade pieces already in Boston during this off-season. This is based on those pieces are a more known commodity and the prospects are more likely to increase in value and yes I understand that there is a decent chance that that is not true but I think those risks are less than 50% and worth taking. I think it's a long shot but they could make the fit work pretty easily especially if he can be had for a reasonable cost due to the injury. Figured since I'd seen folks bring up bregman and adames that why not discuss Kim and his possible fit. Campbell has some OF experience so you could theoretically play him in LF and Kim at 2nd and also have days where Kim plays 3rd and Campbell 2nd.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Oct 13, 2024 7:33:37 GMT -5
Alright so let's see where the tradeable landscape is with the top of the rotation starter land is in 2025- Michael King Crochet Anyone else got any more suggestions? Mayer will cost you Crochet. I hesitate, but I'm willing to give that up as a last option. I don't want to do that, however. Abreu is a guy that produced defensively and offensively more than what you could expect in your wildest dreams in 2024. Everyone is talking about taking advantage of Duran's high trade value, but same could be said about Abreu. He wasn't a top 100 prospect at any point in his career. While Duran was, and had the pedigree of being that type of player. I'd 100 percent bet on Duran repeating a lot of his closer success of his offensive and defensive success versus Abreu. Abreu will probably repeat the defensive side, but no one can guarantee the offensive side. That and you got to give to get. You got to be the best offer on the table to get one of those top of rotation types. A top 3 rookie of year candidate with 5 years control? At a position of need of one of their free agent holes? Yeah that can get you King I think. No ones arguing against that. Everyone's arguing that's too much to give. Again, welcome to the world of contending. What is the worst you're willing to give up to get that? This is the off-season to give it up. The front office, the ownership, the whole franchise sounds like they're ready to go all out to get there. So get ready for the hurt folks. Why must there be hurt? The team has a ton of money to spend and there are proven free agent top of the rotation starters available between Burnes, Fried, and potentially Snell. Why must the Red Sox trade away a prospect? Why should any of us care if they actually have to (gasp) spend money on a free agent pitcher? There's nothing saying that the Sox MUST trade for a starting pitcher. I understand the desire for efficiency in spending their money, but good lord, you'd think it's coming out of our pockets, that they're poor and can't afford it, and that life ends if the money isn't spent 100% efficiently? It's not a perfect world. Sometimes businesses have to overspend for quality. Really, not the end of the world. Can't have an entire roster of inefficient, but c'mon, there are quality pitchers out there that can help and signing them would allow the Sox to keep the best young up and coming core they've had in a decade. Let's not act like they have no way of helping themselves other than through trade. I mean, if they can trade from surplus like an Abreu or from lower tiered or blocked prospects (who aren't as good as the guys the Sox se as their core), then sure, go for a trade, but doing something dumb because they "must" seems kind of foolish to me given the position they're in. Nobody is saying they MUST trade for a pitcher, but the reality is there are maybe two starters that are really needle-movers at the top of free agency, and there are 30 teams. It would be foolish to assume that just because the Red Sox have money to spend, that anything is guaranteed. It should be an option for sure, but you also need to be prepared for the likelihood that they sign elsewhere.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 13, 2024 8:53:43 GMT -5
Why must there be hurt? The team has a ton of money to spend and there are proven free agent top of the rotation starters available between Burnes, Fried, and potentially Snell. Why must the Red Sox trade away a prospect? Why should any of us care if they actually have to (gasp) spend money on a free agent pitcher? There's nothing saying that the Sox MUST trade for a starting pitcher. I understand the desire for efficiency in spending their money, but good lord, you'd think it's coming out of our pockets, that they're poor and can't afford it, and that life ends if the money isn't spent 100% efficiently? It's not a perfect world. Sometimes businesses have to overspend for quality. Really, not the end of the world. Can't have an entire roster of inefficient, but c'mon, there are quality pitchers out there that can help and signing them would allow the Sox to keep the best young up and coming core they've had in a decade. Let's not act like they have no way of helping themselves other than through trade. I mean, if they can trade from surplus like an Abreu or from lower tiered or blocked prospects (who aren't as good as the guys the Sox se as their core), then sure, go for a trade, but doing something dumb because they "must" seems kind of foolish to me given the position they're in. Nobody is saying they MUST trade for a pitcher, but the reality is there are maybe two starters that are really needle-movers at the top of free agency, and there are 30 teams. It would be foolish to assume that just because the Red Sox have money to spend, that anything is guaranteed. It should be an option for sure, but you also need to be prepared for the likelihood that they sign elsewhere. True. There is competition of course and while they're not really competing again 29 other teams it only takes 1 to outbid or win away the free agent. I just think with 3 such pitchers in Burnes, Snell, and Fried, they have choices and should be able to land one of those 3. That doesnt even take Sasaki into account or good secondary options like Flaherty or Eovaldi whom would immediately improve the rotation. I get the "contingency" and being prepared idea, but dont necessarily see where the trade comes in. Crochet is a given. 99%, he gets traded. Doubt the Padres deal King and as much as Dipoto loves to wheel and deal, I think he'd ask too much in prospect talent for his starters except for Castillo whom would cost less in talent because of his heftier salary. Still, Dipoto has said hes not trading from pitching, although that remains to be seen. As the saying goes, you can never have too much pitching. Normally it's easier to find a bat in the free agent market than pitching anyways. I think deals mentioning Duran are a non starter, frankly. The Sox arent getting rid of their dynamic leadoff man. All it would do is enforce the message that if you come up thru the system, struggle, work hard, put it together and blossom, we'll get rid of you. Doubt Cora would go for that and while Breslow makes the moves, I do believe Cora has a voice that Breslow respects. They're not doing anything that drastic. Of the teams where there is trade talk, I think the Marlins are a more realistic target, but although they have talented starters, many of them are coming off injury so theres a lot of risk there although I can understand the desire to deal for Alcantara, or Luzardo, or even Garrett, but with the health questions, its hardly a slam dunk. Maybe the Twins make Joe Ryan or Pablo Lopez available, who knows? I'd much go thru the free agent market than the trade market.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 13, 2024 9:26:03 GMT -5
Why must there be hurt? The team has a ton of money to spend and there are proven free agent top of the rotation starters available between Burnes, Fried, and potentially Snell. Why must the Red Sox trade away a prospect? Why should any of us care if they actually have to (gasp) spend money on a free agent pitcher? There's nothing saying that the Sox MUST trade for a starting pitcher. I understand the desire for efficiency in spending their money, but good lord, you'd think it's coming out of our pockets, that they're poor and can't afford it, and that life ends if the money isn't spent 100% efficiently? It's not a perfect world. Sometimes businesses have to overspend for quality. Really, not the end of the world. Hey champs, I respect your position on this, but- This all comes back to the best of the best. The most talented guys at the very top who you want at the top of the rotation starter pool. I think Crotchet and King are it while everyone you listed below, fall below and you'll get what you paid for at that point. No guarantee on any of this, but I think the franchise owes it to the fans to take a chance for the first time since the 2019 off-season to go for a shot at the post season. No one can seriously say they've made a effort to do that since then. The trade season is the off-season, even the mods here admitted to this. The 2021 prosopagnosia is pathological. Breslow and Bloom are the same guy. Just absolutely zero discernible difference between them.
The closest thing I ever saw to a fair overarching criticism of Bloom was that he was too tight, too nitty: he wouldn't make a move unless it was a sure-fire winner. That led him to miss out on guys like Eflin, because he didn't blow him out of the water with a strong offer; and it led him to be too passive at the trade deadlines.
So they bring in Breslow, and what does he do? He underbids for the starting pitchers the team liked (Lugo, Imanaga), and then after making a big show about "picking a lane" at the trade deadline, he sets a clear and conservative limit on the quality of prospect he's willing to trade and ends up making minor additions that don't work out at all.
This is not even a criticism of Breslow, because I thought Bloom was fine. And Breslow seems fine. But I don't understand how anyone looks at Breslow and sees a meaningfully different approach from Bloom.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 13, 2024 10:11:36 GMT -5
Hey champs, I respect your position on this, but- This all comes back to the best of the best. The most talented guys at the very top who you want at the top of the rotation starter pool. I think Crotchet and King are it while everyone you listed below, fall below and you'll get what you paid for at that point. No guarantee on any of this, but I think the franchise owes it to the fans to take a chance for the first time since the 2019 off-season to go for a shot at the post season. No one can seriously say they've made a effort to do that since then. The trade season is the off-season, even the mods here admitted to this. The 2021 prosopagnosia is pathological. Breslow and Bloom are the same guy. Just absolutely zero discernible difference between them.
The closest thing I ever saw to a fair overarching criticism of Bloom was that he was too tight, too nitty: he wouldn't make a move unless it was a sure-fire winner. That led him to miss out on guys like Eflin, because he didn't blow him out of the water with a strong offer; and it led him to be too passive at the trade deadlines. So they bring in Breslow, and what does he do? He underbids for the starting pitchers the team liked (Lugo, Imanaga), and then after making a big show about "picking a lane" at the trade deadline, he sets a clear and conservative limit on the quality of prospect he's willing to trade and ends up making minor additions that don't work out at all. This is not even a criticism of Breslow, because I thought Bloom was fine. And Breslow seems fine. But I don't understand how anyone looks at Breslow and sees a meaningfully different approach from Bloom.
So far, for the most part, you're right, although I suspect a couple of differences already and suspect theyll diverge a lot this winter. #1, Breslow's first move is his pitching infrastructure setup. I suspect Brealiw understands pitching a lot more than Bloom given he actually was a pitcher. #2, I suspect Breslow's relationship with Alex Cora is a lot stronger than Bloom's was. I feel that if Bloom was still here, Cora wouldn't be. I think transactionally they have been similar, making safe, futuristic driven moves, and underbidding free agents, well except for Bloom's exceptions, Story and Yoshida. I believe that Breslow will make a deal this winter that will upset a lot of us prospect huggers, something Bloom didnt do unless you're a big Aldo Ramirez fan. And we'll see if Breslow lands a big fish in free agency, something Bloom never did, although that's probably more on ownership than Bloom.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Oct 13, 2024 10:20:32 GMT -5
Alright so let's see where the tradeable landscape is with the top of the rotation starter land is in 2025- Michael King Crochet Anyone else got any more suggestions? Mayer will cost you Crochet. I hesitate, but I'm willing to give that up as a last option. I don't want to do that, however. Abreu is a guy that produced defensively and offensively more than what you could expect in your wildest dreams in 2024. Everyone is talking about taking advantage of Duran's high trade value, but same could be said about Abreu. He wasn't a top 100 prospect at any point in his career. While Duran was, and had the pedigree of being that type of player. I'd 100 percent bet on Duran repeating a lot of his closer success of his offensive and defensive success versus Abreu. Abreu will probably repeat the defensive side, but no one can guarantee the offensive side. That and you got to give to get. You got to be the best offer on the table to get one of those top of rotation types. A top 3 rookie of year candidate with 5 years control? At a position of need of one of their free agent holes? Yeah that can get you King I think. No ones arguing against that. Everyone's arguing that's too much to give. Again, welcome to the world of contending. What is the worst you're willing to give up to get that? This is the off-season to give it up. The front office, the ownership, the whole franchise sounds like they're ready to go all out to get there. So get ready for the hurt folks. Why must there be hurt? The team has a ton of money to spend and there are proven free agent top of the rotation starters available between Burnes, Fried, and potentially Snell. Why must the Red Sox trade away a prospect? Why should any of us care if they actually have to (gasp) spend money on a free agent pitcher? There's nothing saying that the Sox MUST trade for a starting pitcher. I understand the desire for efficiency in spending their money, but good lord, you'd think it's coming out of our pockets, that they're poor and can't afford it, and that life ends if the money isn't spent 100% efficiently? It's not a perfect world. Sometimes businesses have to overspend for quality. Really, not the end of the world. Can't have an entire roster of inefficient, but c'mon, there are quality pitchers out there that can help and signing them would allow the Sox to keep the best young up and coming core they've had in a decade. Let's not act like they have no way of helping themselves other than through trade. I mean, if they can trade from surplus like an Abreu or from lower tiered or blocked prospects (who aren't as good as the guys the Sox se as their core), then sure, go for a trade, but doing something dumb because they "must" seems kind of foolish to me given the position they're in. I get this attitude that it isn't any of our money, but the argument against this is Sale's extension, which went about as poorly as you could imagine. From 2020-2023 the Sox paid him $85 million for a total of 31 starts, 150 innings and 3.1 WAR. It is pretty difficult to compete in major league baseball when a guy who you are directing significant resources to is just on the shelf. This will now be the 6th offseason since that extension was given to Sale, and the largest contract the Red Sox have given to a free agent pitcher since then is the $38 million given to Giolito...which also immediately went south. I personally think Breslow was brought in with the intention of creating a pitching pipeline to match our position player pipeline, so that they don't need to rely on giving a lot of money to pitchers over 30. And I also think it's why they won't be in on either the Burnes or Fried sweepstakes.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 13, 2024 10:38:21 GMT -5
The 2021 prosopagnosia is pathological. Breslow and Bloom are the same guy. Just absolutely zero discernible difference between them.
The closest thing I ever saw to a fair overarching criticism of Bloom was that he was too tight, too nitty: he wouldn't make a move unless it was a sure-fire winner. That led him to miss out on guys like Eflin, because he didn't blow him out of the water with a strong offer; and it led him to be too passive at the trade deadlines. So they bring in Breslow, and what does he do? He underbids for the starting pitchers the team liked (Lugo, Imanaga), and then after making a big show about "picking a lane" at the trade deadline, he sets a clear and conservative limit on the quality of prospect he's willing to trade and ends up making minor additions that don't work out at all. This is not even a criticism of Breslow, because I thought Bloom was fine. And Breslow seems fine. But I don't understand how anyone looks at Breslow and sees a meaningfully different approach from Bloom.
So far, for the most part, you're right, although I suspect a couple of differences already and suspect theyll diverge a lot this winter. #1, Breslow's first move is his pitching infrastructure setup. I suspect Brealiw understands pitching a lot more than Bloom given he actually was a pitcher. It's been memory-holed, but even on this point they're identical: Bloom came in with the same hype that he was going to build up the pitching development; he was gonna work that Tampa black magic to turn the Jeffrey Springses of the world into aces and whatnot. And arguably he succeeded to a degree, with guys like Whitlock, Crawford, and Houck making development jumps on his watch.
You might be right, but here the difference is just the situation the organization is in rather than the tendencies of the GM. Here, once again, is the sort of bizarre sequence of events:
1. With a lot of young talent showing itself in the majors and the team looking competitive in mid-2023, along with the farm system filling out, there was a lot of talk about the team getting more aggressive in the upcoming offseason. It was widely felt that the time to strike had finally arrived. 2. Then the team went into a slump for a few weeks, Bloom got fired, and Breslow got brought in. 3. Breslow's biggest move was *trading away* Sale and otherwise being conservative in free agency, while continuing to try to add prospects.
Now the bevy of young players is even more impressive, and the farm system is even more filled out, and people are once again talking about how the time to strike has arrived. Except the owners have been weird and confusing for a while now so no one really knows what they're going to do.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Oct 13, 2024 10:44:34 GMT -5
I think the difference between Bloom and Breslow, and maybe some of this is hindsight, is that the hype around Bloom was built on “Well the Rays did this and he was with the Rays so surely he can do this too!” Whereas Breslow was actually the one to whom (I am also certainly not using whom right there) the Cubs’ pitching dev was mostly attributed to.
I can see why people would think they’re similar given their backgrounds but it’s too early for me to say they’re all that similar, I don’t think his actions at the trade deadline were necessarily similar to Bloom’s given the way the market as a whole shook out.
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Post by sxfan on Oct 13, 2024 11:01:09 GMT -5
Hey champs, I respect your position on this, but- This all comes back to the best of the best. The most talented guys at the very top who you want at the top of the rotation starter pool. I think Crotchet and King are it while everyone you listed below, fall below and you'll get what you paid for at that point. No guarantee on any of this, but I think the franchise owes it to the fans to take a chance for the first time since the 2019 off-season to go for a shot at the post season. No one can seriously say they've made a effort to do that since then. The trade season is the off-season, even the mods here admitted to this. The 2021 prosopagnosia is pathological. Breslow and Bloom are the same guy. Just absolutely zero discernible difference between them.
The closest thing I ever saw to a fair overarching criticism of Bloom was that he was too tight, too nitty: he wouldn't make a move unless it was a sure-fire winner. That led him to miss out on guys like Eflin, because he didn't blow him out of the water with a strong offer; and it led him to be too passive at the trade deadlines.
So they bring in Breslow, and what does he do? He underbids for the starting pitchers the team liked (Lugo, Imanaga), and then after making a big show about "picking a lane" at the trade deadline, he sets a clear and conservative limit on the quality of prospect he's willing to trade and ends up making minor additions that don't work out at all.
This is not even a criticism of Breslow, because I thought Bloom was fine. And Breslow seems fine. But I don't understand how anyone looks at Breslow and sees a meaningfully different approach from Bloom.
I personally think we haven't seen what kind of GM Breslow is. He's been essentially sitting on his hands since he got here. He's been lurking and evaluating. He basically did nothing before last season started. One smaller deal to Giolito. He also really did nothing at the trade deadline this year. Traded for expiring middling relievers and stood pat. We have no idea what Breslow is as a GM yet. We are about to find out.
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Post by kwodes on Oct 13, 2024 11:22:02 GMT -5
I think ematz mentioned it earlier, but the reported offers for Crochet at the deadline were underwhelming (which is obviously why he wasn't traded), but do we really think it'll cost as much as we expect for him? I do believe he's a perfect fit for this roster.
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 13, 2024 11:28:04 GMT -5
Not sure if this is wishful thinking but for me the biggest difference between Bloom and Breslow is that Breslow has been a player and in theory would have a better perspective of the entire organization. He should have a better understanding of what is actually needed in the clubhouse as opposed to just what the spreadsheet is saying.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 13, 2024 11:28:36 GMT -5
- Vlad Jr. is set to make $29.6 million in arb. For those who would swap Casas for him, I leave the math to you. - Cedric Mullins is still in arb? It feels like he's been around for like a decade but he barely has 5 years of service time. Meanwhile Skubal already has 4 years of service time and I feel like he showed up about 3 weeks ago. Ditto Crochet.
Crocet has been injured so often, I feel like his shoulder is held together with Gorilla Tape and old rubber bands. They'd be nuts to trade Casas, even if they aren't going to extend him. Never sell low unless the asset is beyond reclamation. That is clearly not the case with Casas.
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Post by chaimtime on Oct 13, 2024 11:29:09 GMT -5
One thing I’ve been thinking about lately: Speier’s column about the difference between pushing for a competitive team and pushing for a division win is probably the closest thing we’re gonna get from ownership to them saying “we will spend.” I recall Speier being one of the more conservative voices once Breslow was hired last offseason, so I do think that’s a meaningful difference.
In a Reddit AMA during the season, he also said that he expected the team’s offseason plans to depend quite a lot on how Houck/Bello/Crawford and the other younger pitchers in the system developed. Breslow has made it a point to bring that up in basically every interview he’s done since the season has ended, so I’d call that another signal they will get aggressive.
I think there’s a pretty good chance they jump above the tax this offseason. It makes strategic sense to me—the options available this year look a lot better than next year’s crop, and they should be set up well to manage the payroll over the next few years. Giolito will be replaced by someone like Priester or Fitts. Story and Yoshida are both off the books in three years. They could probably add $100 million in salary this offseason and still dip under the tax when Story and Yoshida leave if things go belly up. The risk should be very manageable for a team with deep pockets and elite player development like the Red Sox.
Honestly, if they’re not gonna jump back up into the top 4-7 range for payroll this offseason, I’m not sure they ever will. 26 year old future first ballot Hall of Famers aren’t on the market every year. The best ground ball pitcher in baseball isn’t on the market every year. If they can’t come away from this offseason with one of the big dogs then it will be very hard to call the offseason anything other than a failure.
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Post by sxfan on Oct 13, 2024 11:31:07 GMT -5
I think ematz mentioned it earlier, but the reported offers for Crochet at the deadline were underwhelming (which is obviously why he wasn't traded), but do we really think it'll cost as much as we expect for him? I do believe he's a perfect fit for this roster. Crochet killed his value on the trade deadline. Demanding a extension before pitching postseason innings. It should be completely different this off-season. He can't do that before the season starts with a new team.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 13, 2024 11:42:06 GMT -5
Also, just throwing this out there: Devers AAV is now only $8M more than a QO. Within 5 years he may be just $1-2M above. If they think the bat will have value, say, for at least the next 8 years, which seems entirely reasonable unless he lets himself go physically, he's only a marginally bad third baseman who will look a little better with a legit SS—i.e a full year of Story or Mayer.
It's not time to move his position but would he be that much better at first touching the ball on more than 90% of the plays in the infield? Is he better suited for LF? Or, heretical I know, is he the guy you look to shop this winter?
I don't know the answers to any of these, except I think you ink him in at 3rd next year and hope a better SS makes him less of a liability,
Anyway, asking the group, since keeping him at third short term (unless he's traded) seems to be the right play right now in my opinion.
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rhswanzey
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Post by rhswanzey on Oct 13, 2024 12:07:00 GMT -5
I do wonder if the rumors of several teams looking to trim payroll will make for a good buyers market for the Sox. Maybe they forgo FA for the most part and can trade from the depth in their farm for at least some of their needs. Mainly RHH thump, front/mid rotation SP, BP help, who knows maybe even a C who is good enough to at least play 50/50 with wong while Teel develops. It's hard to find any other team who may have as much to spend as the sox do. As we know FA isn't the only avenue to flex their financial flexibility. Looking forward to the hot stove heating up this year, assuming it actually does and we don't get a redo of last year anyway. I’m not very well versed in team broadcast revenue type stuff, but my understanding is that for the ~1/3 of the league that was impacted by the Diamond Sports Group bankruptcy, MLB covered approx 60% of that lost revenue for the 2024 season, but has no such plans for 2025. I wonder if Fenway Sports Group viewed the enormous growth of regional sports network broadcasting revenues as a bubble, and that partially informed their decision to stay financially lean (and in baseball purgatory) for a few years. My opinion is that’s being way too generous towards FSG, but it is possible that this has been a factor, while simultaneously representing something they can’t talk about publicly. Such a bubble popping does present the kind of irregular market opportunity for which this organization is now well positioned. After a luxury tax reset and with many organizations incentivized to cut payroll, it would be frustrating to let the opportunity pass in favor of continuing to sit around $225m.
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Post by sxfan on Oct 13, 2024 12:47:17 GMT -5
I do wonder if the rumors of several teams looking to trim payroll will make for a good buyers market for the Sox. Maybe they forgo FA for the most part and can trade from the depth in their farm for at least some of their needs. Mainly RHH thump, front/mid rotation SP, BP help, who knows maybe even a C who is good enough to at least play 50/50 with wong while Teel develops. It's hard to find any other team who may have as much to spend as the sox do. As we know FA isn't the only avenue to flex their financial flexibility. Looking forward to the hot stove heating up this year, assuming it actually does and we don't get a redo of last year anyway. The Padres seem like the best team to resign Kim. They can't really replace him, and he should be cheap on a one year deal. They don't have much financial wiggle room with all the big contracts they have. They can't afford Profar anymore. He priced himself out with his big year. That's why the Padres make a interesting trade candidate.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Oct 13, 2024 12:48:26 GMT -5
- Vlad Jr. is set to make $29.6 million in arb. For those who would swap Casas for him, I leave the math to you. - Cedric Mullins is still in arb? It feels like he's been around for like a decade but he barely has 5 years of service time. Meanwhile Skubal already has 4 years of service time and I feel like he showed up about 3 weeks ago. Ditto Crochet.
Crocet has been injured so often, I feel like his shoulder is held together with Gorilla Tape and old rubber bands. They'd be nuts to trade Casas, even if they aren't going to extend him. Never sell low unless the asset is beyond reclamation. That is clearly not the case with Casas. Any trade made this winter will involve positions of strength where there are more than one mlb player or near-ready prospect: 2b, SS, OF, 5th starter, a-ball starter. There is no replacement for Casas. There is no replacement for Teel.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 13, 2024 12:55:07 GMT -5
I do wonder if the rumors of several teams looking to trim payroll will make for a good buyers market for the Sox. Maybe they forgo FA for the most part and can trade from the depth in their farm for at least some of their needs. Mainly RHH thump, front/mid rotation SP, BP help, who knows maybe even a C who is good enough to at least play 50/50 with wong while Teel develops. It's hard to find any other team who may have as much to spend as the sox do. As we know FA isn't the only avenue to flex their financial flexibility. Looking forward to the hot stove heating up this year, assuming it actually does and we don't get a redo of last year anyway. The Padres seem like the best team to resign Kim. They can't really replace him, and he should be cheap on a one year deal. They don't have much financial wiggle room with all the big contracts they have. They can't afford Profar anymore. He priced himself out with his big year. That's why the Padres make a interesting trade candidate. Kim has Boras as an agent and is been a 3+ WAR player when healthy the last 3 seasons. No chance he is looking to sign a cheap one year deal.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Oct 13, 2024 14:38:39 GMT -5
I think ematz mentioned it earlier, but the reported offers for Crochet at the deadline were underwhelming (which is obviously why he wasn't traded), but do we really think it'll cost as much as we expect for him? I do believe he's a perfect fit for this roster. What’s interesting to me in respect to a Crochet deal (or another blockbuster trade) is how the Red Sox are pretty well positioned with ammunition compared to the rest of the league. Only the Cubs have more top #100 prospects (8 to the Red Sox’s 6). While certainly not to extent of teams like Baltimore, the Red Sox have a fair plethora of pre-arb guys who have established themselves as capable MLB players as well. So if they go to the White Sox on Crochet and propose say, Braden Montgomery (#54 MLB Pipeline) and Franklin Arias (#95 MLB Pipeline) as an opening offer, and the White Sox ask for the Big 4/Casas/“name your trade goodie” in response… it seems like the Red Sox could say “Go find another team that wants to give up multiple top 50 prospects” before having to jump to that level? Like of the 50ish prospects “better” than Montgomery, 4 of them are your own guys. www.mlb.com/prospects
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Post by finaliz3d on Oct 13, 2024 15:56:36 GMT -5
I guess with Crochet the question is what is his value? For Dylan Cease, the White Sox got the #58 prospect according to BA and two guys who weren't ranked but were in the top 10 of their system. MLB had Thorpe #85 and two guys in their top 10.
Crochet has two years of control, as did Cease, Cease was a proven starter for multiple years, but coming off a year where his actual numbers weren't as good as the peripheral stats. Crochet is coming off of a great year but hasn't started a game before this season.
I don't see a world where he costs two of the big four, and honestly while I've talked about a Mayer/Abreu package in general to get a starter, that might be an overpay for Crochet. Montgomery/Cespedes/Sandlin would probably make more sense if we did go the Crochet route.
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Post by orcoaster on Oct 13, 2024 16:18:59 GMT -5
I believe the Red Sox embarked on a 4-6 year rebuild plan in 2020. That's why Mookie was traded, Bogaerts was not aggressively pursued, Sale was traded, Devers was extended (he's young), Story was signed at a bargain price, and we've seen a series of one year deals (Schwarber, Renfroe, O'Neil, Turner, Duval, Pham, Hosmer, etc.). In Boston, however, one cannot say "rebuild" or even whisper "bridge" so a fascade of "contention" has been marketed. Contention not impossible (see, 2021) but it's not very likely (every other year.)
So assuming the organization has been keeping its powder dry while the core and foundational talent has been rebuilt, the day is quickly approaching for big, bold action. Based upon the performance and arrival of the Big Four (Five?), maybe that is this year; perhaps it is next year. I'd like to believe that the strategic plan has always been as follows:
2024 offseason: Sign Juan Soto. 2025 offseason: Sign Vlad Guerrero, Jr. Use redundant assets to acquire high reward/low risk pitching.
2026 Lineup
CF Duran LF Soto DH Guerrero 3B Devers 1B Casas RF Anthony 2B Campbell SS Mayer C Teel
Bench
Wong C/1B/2B/3B Rafaela OF/SS Story SS/2B/3B Defensive Catcher
Trade Chips for pitching Abreu Grissom Montgomery Arias Bleis Meidroth Cespedes Valdez Yoshida and so on...
At least, that is what I will dream on by the hot stove this winter.
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