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9/23-9/25 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Series Thread
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Post by finaliz3d on Sept 25, 2024 20:50:40 GMT -5
And the funeral procession is over, Red Sox lose and are eliminated from the playoffs. They are eliminated, but the funeral procession has just begun. This season will be sliced and diced ad nauseum. And it will be shown in all its glory in the Netflix special. Autopsy time, and everyone gets to be a coroner with a different opinion on what killed the team. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 25, 2024 20:53:19 GMT -5
They are eliminated, but the funeral procession has just begun. This season will be sliced and diced ad nauseum. And it will be shown in all its glory in the Netflix special. Autopsy time, and everyone gets to be a coroner with a different opinion on what killed the team. Injuries to story and Casas, the bullpen turning every close game into what seemed to be a guaranteed L for that stretch after the ASB/trade deadline and the offense going absolutely lifeless a few weeks ago is what I'm calling the cause of death for the 2024 red sox season. |
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 25, 2024 20:55:16 GMT -5
I wonder if 61 Rbi's for someone who hits over 30 HR's is a record, of some sorts. Can't imagine that has happened often. I get he missed time and RBI's are fluky, but still...... TON has 31 HRs in 24 games (7 multi-HR games). He has 61 RBIs, so he has driven himself in 31 times, and of the other 30 RBIs, some of them have come because of having base runners when he hits the HRs. TON has played 112 games. That means that in the 88 games he has not hit a HR, he has done very little to help the team win….. IMO, the Red Sox should let him sign with a different team. They will have plenty of really good position players when you are adding Anthony, Campbell, Teal, and Mayer to what they already have in 2025. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 25, 2024 21:00:49 GMT -5
I wonder if 61 Rbi's for someone who hits over 30 HR's is a record, of some sorts. Can't imagine that has happened often. I get he missed time and RBI's are fluky, but still...... TON has 31 HRs in 24 games (7 multi-HR games). He has 61 RBIs, so he has driven himself in 31 times, and of the other 30 RBIs, some of them have come because of having base runners when he hits the HRs. TON has played 112 games. That means that in the 88 games he has not hit a HR, he has done very little to help the team win….. IMO, the Red Sox should let him sign with a different team. They will have plenty of really good position players when you are adding Anthony, Campbell, Teal, and Mayer to what they already have in 2025. Barring ONeill signing for 2 years 30M maybe with a vesting 3rd year option based off PAs which I highly doubt would be the highest bid I'm all set on bringing O'Neill back. Just not convinced he can stay healthy nor that he can repeat his 2024 season. He'll be 30 and has basically only had two good years in his career. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 25, 2024 21:01:24 GMT -5
After watching or listening to pretty much every game this year - the team is not in the playoffs because of...
errors/unearned runs
runs lost due to sloppy baserunning
a badly performing bullpen (often)
poor hitting in clutch situations
Poor home record
A boatload of Ks in too many games
yes, injuries played a part in this - Story, Grissom, Casas, Raffy, TON, Refsnyder, Hamilton and Masa all missed from some to a lot of games. Giolito, Whitlock, Slaten, Martin. The timing of Slaten and Martin certainly led to the poor start after the AS break.
But all teams lose key players.
Somehow all of the above ended up close to or at a .500 team
We did get to see Duran shine, Houck shine, Crawford and Bello at times pitch well, Abreu and Rafaela play well as rookies.
Definitely an interesting season - some really enjoyable, some really frustrating. That's baseball!
It was fun sharing it all with all of you here.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Sept 25, 2024 21:06:55 GMT -5
I think we should have a New Orleans funeral like the Live and Let Die movie.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 25, 2024 21:10:45 GMT -5
I wonder if 61 Rbi's for someone who hits over 30 HR's is a record, of some sorts. Can't imagine that has happened often. I get he missed time and RBI's are fluky, but still...... TON has 31 HRs in 24 games (7 multi-HR games). He has 61 RBIs, so he has driven himself in 31 times, and of the other 30 RBIs, some of them have come because of having base runners when he hits the HRs. TON has played 112 games. That means that in the 88 games he has not hit a HR, he has done very little to help the team win….. IMO, the Red Sox should let him sign with a different team. They will have plenty of really good position players when you are adding Anthony, Campbell, Teal, and Mayer to what they already have in 2025. His back has been bothering him for a while which is why he stopped hitting recently. With his injury history I don't want to be tied to him for any length of time. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 25, 2024 21:10:47 GMT -5
I wonder if 61 Rbi's for someone who hits over 30 HR's is a record, of some sorts. Can't imagine that has happened often. I get he missed time and RBI's are fluky, but still...... Barry Bonds had 90 RBI on 45 HR in 2003. Same 2:1 ratio. i am gonna guess the great differentiator in these lines is that Bonds walked 30-40 percent of the time and TON strikes out 30-40 percent of the time. ha. That is interesting, though. Thanks. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 25, 2024 21:13:19 GMT -5
My post mortem on this season, and i watched a lot of game, as you all did.
STUPID BLIND UMPIRES !! They are the cause !!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 25, 2024 21:29:20 GMT -5
They're a team lacking in high end talent. They have a lot of average-ish players and they're above average players are negated by their really bad players which makes them basically a .500 team, which is not good enough to make the post season yet - although Rob Manfred wants to add a 4th wild card per league, not that a 4th wild card team would have gotten this year's team in - maybe when Manfred gets to adding 6 wild cards per league the Sox will be in business, lol.
I think the #1 thing that killed the Sox this year was the bullpen. Individually most of the relievers aren't that bad, but collectively they were awful and they killed the team during the second half, particularly the second half of July when the Sox made their intentions for the rest of the season clear (I was too blind to see that so apologies to the other posters who did see it). The rotation was ok, not great. The lineup was good but not great. Really good Red Sox teams usually finish first in runs scored. The defense was bad again and gave away too many unearned runs. At their peak, they were highly athletic and entertaining, but that went away during the second half.
It's nice to see players develop into being average, but when you're average the liabilities balance out the assets pretty much, not that it's a bad thing as it beats replacement level, but ultimately replacement level does happen, so that needs to be counterbalanced more for the team to take a step forward.
The young talent coming up is a major asset and Breslow has already tipped an obvious hand stating that he has too many middle infielders and too many left handed outfielders, so I expect to see trades from surplus. The question will be who does he trade? They need another ace to stack with Houck and they really have to fix the pen and balance out the lineup - an impact bat wouldn't hurt either as I'd love to see them get Soto but won't count on it.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 25, 2024 21:29:57 GMT -5
They are eliminated, but the funeral procession has just begun. This season will be sliced and diced ad nauseum. And it will be shown in all its glory in the Netflix special. Autopsy time, and everyone gets to be a coroner with a different opinion on what killed the team. Henry’s aversion to star players. |
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Post by ephus on Sept 25, 2024 22:00:25 GMT -5
Mediocrity sucks.
But there is something deep in me that truly believes that this team’s greatest nemesis is an overcorrection that sets us back more than we want to accept.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 25, 2024 22:06:54 GMT -5
Mediocrity sucks. But there is something deep in me that truly believes that this team’s greatest nemesis is an overcorrection that sets us back more than we want to accept. I still feel that they overreacted to the hangover 2019 season and their overcorrection has gotten the Sox 1 playoff appearance in 5 seasons. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 25, 2024 22:31:42 GMT -5
3 games left. .500 magnet, do your thing.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 25, 2024 23:33:55 GMT -5
Okay I no longer judge your lack of mettle if you root for the Red Sox to tank. That 9th slot is tantalizingly within reach...
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,792
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Post by asm18 on Sept 26, 2024 0:13:34 GMT -5
At a glance:
From 2023 -> 2024
MLB Ranks
Runs Scored - 11th -> 8th
Starter ERA - 22nd -> 6th(!)
Bullpen ERA - 20th -> 25th
Martin
1.05 ERA -> 3.53 ERA
Winckowski
2.92 ERA -> 4.76 ERA
Bernie
3.46 ERA -> 4.37 ERA
On the plus side, Kenley threw more innings and dropped his ERA, as did Greg Weissert in comparison to his doppleganger 2023 John Schreiber. And Slaten was just fantastic.
It speaks volumes that Dom Smith(!) had about as many scoreless relief appearances as a position player as several actual relievers on the team did this year.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 26, 2024 0:17:00 GMT -5
Okay I no longer judge your lack of mettle if you root for the Red Sox to tank. That 9th slot is tantalizingly within reach... Probably need to get swept to get it |
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Post by bluechip on Sept 26, 2024 4:05:46 GMT -5
At a glance: From 2023 -> 2024 MLB Ranks Runs Scored - 11th -> 8th Starter ERA - 22nd -> 6th(!) Bullpen ERA - 20th -> 25th Martin 1.05 ERA -> 3.53 ERA Winckowski 2.92 ERA -> 4.76 ERA Bernie 3.46 ERA -> 4.37 ERA On the plus side, Kenley threw more innings and dropped his ERA, as did Greg Weissert in comparison to his doppleganger 2023 John Schreiber. And Slaten was just fantastic. It speaks volumes that Dom Smith(!) had about as many scoreless relief appearances as a position player as several actual relievers on the team did this year. Looking at the innings pitched and performance of the top four starters, you would think this team would be better. Bullpens are fickle. This bullpen killed the team. |
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 26, 2024 6:15:07 GMT -5
Autopsy time, and everyone gets to be a coroner with a different opinion on what killed the team. Injuries to story and Casas, the bullpen turning every close game into what seemed to be a guaranteed L for that stretch after the ASB/trade deadline and the offense going absolutely lifeless a few weeks ago is what I'm calling the cause of death for the 2024 red sox season. This. Not only that but I think a lot of people really downplayed the importance of having a top of the rotation starter too. Getting a number 1 starter on this team needs to happen in order for them to have a shot. On the plus side Houck and Duran really emerged as pieces for the future. |
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Sept 26, 2024 7:07:49 GMT -5
They're a team lacking in high end talent. They have a lot of average-ish players and they're above average players are negated by their really bad players which makes them basically a .500 team, which is not good enough to make the post season yet - although Rob Manfred wants to add a 4th wild card per league, not that a 4th wild card team would have gotten this year's team in - maybe when Manfred gets to adding 6 wild cards per league the Sox will be in business, lol. I think the #1 thing that killed the Sox this year was the bullpen. Individually most of the relievers aren't that bad, but collectively they were awful and they killed the team during the second half, particularly the second half of July when the Sox made their intentions for the rest of the season clear (I was too blind to see that so apologies to the other posters who did see it). The rotation was ok, not great. The lineup was good but not great. Really good Red Sox teams usually finish first in runs scored. The defense was bad again and gave away too many unearned runs. At their peak, they were highly athletic and entertaining, but that went away during the second half. It's nice to see players develop into being average, but when you're average the liabilities balance out the assets pretty much, not that it's a bad thing as it beats replacement level, but ultimately replacement level does happen, so that needs to be counterbalanced more for the team to take a step forward. The young talent coming up is a major asset and Breslow has already tipped an obvious hand stating that he has too many middle infielders and too many left handed outfielders, so I expect to see trades from surplus. The question will be who does he trade? They need another ace to stack with Houck and they really have to fix the pen and balance out the lineup - an impact bat wouldn't hurt either as I'd love to see them get Soto but won't count on it. But Soto is another LHH OF. |
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,603
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Post by radiohix on Sept 26, 2024 7:08:56 GMT -5
I don’t know about you guys but I, for one, can’t wait to hear Sam Kennedy on Monday (?). The “This is unacceptable” and “It’s on us” and “We owe it to our fans” are going to make laugh and cry at the same time.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 26, 2024 7:40:23 GMT -5
Okay I no longer judge your lack of mettle if you root for the Red Sox to tank. That 9th slot is tantalizingly within reach... Probably need to get swept to get it Is this correct: if TB loses to DET today and then takes 2 of 3 from the Red Sox, and if the Giants take 2 of 3 from the Cardinals, then the Red Sox are #9.
But if TB loses today or the Giants win only 1 of 3 the Red Sox would need to be swept to get #9.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 26, 2024 7:47:22 GMT -5
I don’t know about you guys but I, for one, can’t wait to hear Sam Kennedy on Monday (?). The “This is unacceptable” and “It’s on us” and “We owe it to our fans” are going to make laugh and cry at the same time. Here's what I would say if I were the Red Sox spokesperson:
"Listen, we really f'd up with that Sale trade. The thing is, we didn't really believe in this team this year. So we traded away Sale for future value. What's more, that future value turns out to be not that valuable because, again, we underestimated our own guys, like Hamilton and Campbell, who themselves have this team set at 2B for the long-term.
"We also spent money on extensions and on the Hendriks contract that weren't really going to help us in 2024 because, again, we had no faith in this team to win. If we'd spent that instead on winning the bidding for Flaherty, Lugo, or Imanaga, there's a good chance we'd have made the playoffs. Oopsies!
"Also Cora, the manager we just extended, has a pattern of his teams collapsing down the stretch, and we're gonna try to figure out what's up with that this offseason."
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Post by bluechip on Sept 26, 2024 7:55:19 GMT -5
My two cents on 2024:
Cora, like most managers struggles with bullpen management. His bullpens look okay, when he has three effective relievers healthy and he knows exactly how to use them. This team never had that. Without an effective bullpen (ie two lights out setup man and a shutdown closer) this team was going to struggle to win certain games.
Relief pitching is hard. Hard for GMs to find. Hard for managers to use.
This team wasn’t likely to win the World Series, regardless, but its bullpen certainly doomed it.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,792
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Post by asm18 on Sept 26, 2024 8:06:23 GMT -5
I don’t know about you guys but I, for one, can’t wait to hear Sam Kennedy on Monday (?). The “This is unacceptable” and “It’s on us” and “We owe it to our fans” are going to make laugh and cry at the same time. Here's what I would say if I were the Red Sox spokesperson:
"Listen, we really f'd up with that Sale trade. The thing is, we didn't really believe in this team this year. So we traded away Sale for future value. What's more, that future value turns out to be not that valuable because, again, we underestimated our own guys, like Hamilton and Campbell, who themselves have this team set at 2B for the long-term.
"We also spent money on extensions and on the Hendriks contract that weren't really going to help us in 2024 because, again, we had no faith in this team to win. If we'd spent that instead on winning the bidding for Flaherty, Lugo, or Imanaga, there's a good chance we'd have made the playoffs. Oopsies!
"Also Cora, the manager we just extended, has a pattern of his teams collapsing down the stretch, and we're gonna try to figure out what's up with that this offseason."
“According to Chris Cotillo of MassLive, Red Sox team spokesperson incandenza and the team parted ways following a shockingly candid press conference on Tuesday.” |
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