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Post by incandenza on Nov 15, 2024 10:47:25 GMT -5
Passan actually reported that Teoscar specifically wouldn't wait for Soto to sign. but its possible a team on the other side of a Teoscar deal might, if they see him as an optionB behind Soto Well I guess that just means they would miss out on Teoscar. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 15, 2024 10:59:31 GMT -5
What do Pete Alonso, Teoscar Hernandez, Anthony Santander, Eugenio Suarez, Willy Adames, Alex Bregman, and Pete Alonso all have in common?
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 15, 2024 11:09:12 GMT -5
What do Pete Alonso, Teoscar Hernandez, Anthony Santander, Eugenio Suarez, Willy Adames, Alex Bregman, and Pete Alonso all have in common? They're the same person! |
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 15, 2024 11:13:45 GMT -5
What do Pete Alonso, Teoscar Hernandez, Anthony Santander, Eugenio Suarez, Willy Adames, Alex Bregman, and Pete Alonso all have in common? They're all baseball players? They're all older than Juan Soto? |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 15, 2024 11:20:27 GMT -5
but its possible a team on the other side of a Teoscar deal might, if they see him as an optionB behind Soto Well I guess that just means they would miss out on Teoscar. I would be very surprised, despite those comments, if Teoscar signed before Juan Soto. I can't imagine that there is going to be an eagerness to ignore a handful of teams that all have expressed a need for a high-end corner outfielder and that all seemingly have money to burn, just to get a deal done. There's a difference in "we won't wait for Soto" and "we are signing before Soto", I think the former can be true but why restrict your own market? |
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ematz1423
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Juan Soto
Nov 15, 2024 11:22:14 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2024 11:22:14 GMT -5
The only way I see Hernandez signing before Soto is if the dodgers decide they're sick of waiting around and gives him what he's asking for which is at least plausible.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 15, 2024 11:25:37 GMT -5
Well I guess that just means they would miss out on Teoscar. I would be very surprised, despite those comments, if Teoscar signed before Juan Soto. I can't imagine that there is going to be an eagerness to ignore a handful of teams that all have expressed a need for a high-end corner outfielder and that all seemingly have money to burn, just to get a deal done. There's a difference in "we won't wait for Soto" and "we are signing before Soto", I think the former can be true but why restrict your own market? Maybe it's a bluff. But he's also pretty much said he wants to stay with the Dodgers, the Dodgers could use him, they're apparently not in on Soto... There's a pretty clear path there. |
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Nov 15, 2024 11:46:31 GMT -5
Yankees Financial Commitments for Short-to-Medium Term ( Fangraphs Payroll) | Player | 2025 Salary | 2026 Salary | 2027 Salary | 2028 Salary | 2029 Salary | | Aaron Judge | 40 mil AAV | 40 | 40 | 40 | 40 | | Gerrit Cole | 36 mil AAV | 36 | 36 | 36 | - | | Carlos Rodon | 27 mil AAV | 27 | 27 | 27 | - | | Giancarlo Stanton | 25 mil AAV | 15* | 15* | 15* Club Option |
| | Stroman | 18 mil AAV | 18 mil** |
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| | DJ LeMahaieu | 15 mil AAV | 15 |
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| TOTAL
| 161 mil AAV | 151 mil AAV | 118 mil | 103 | 40 |
* For Stanton, Marlins retain $10 mil salary of 2026, 2027, 2028 per the opt-in ( Spotrac) **Stroman vesting player option Jazz is in his final year of arb in 2026. Volpe & Luis Gil enter arb in 2026. It looks like if they add Soto they'd only be in continued luxury tax hell for 2-3 more years. Maybe they haven't really thought things through, maybe they've talked themselves into "yeah we're willing to pay that" or they've convinced themselves the can move money if they need to. But I just don't know that it's going to be a huge deterrent because they've known the situation they've been in for a full year ahead of trying to re-sign Soto. Like are they going to re-crunch the numbers before their meeting and be like, "Oh crap, we have all this money on the books we forgot about, we're going to pull our 500 to 600 mil offer"? Where they're probably in a tough spot is if the bidding just goes up to another echelon - I know Michael Kay (Yankees broadcaster) has been saying if it gets to a certain number Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner might just not go pass it. It's unclear how much wiggle room they have beyond their initial bid. |
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kwodes
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Post by kwodes on Nov 15, 2024 12:01:26 GMT -5
Yankees Financial Commitments for Short-to-Medium Term ( Fangraphs Payroll) | Player | 2025 Salary | 2026 Salary | 2027 Salary | 2028 Salary | 2029 Salary | | Aaron Judge | 40 mil AAV | 40 | 40 | 40 | 40 | | Gerrit Cole | 36 mil AAV | 36 | 36 | 36 | - | | Carlos Rodon | 27 mil AAV | 27 | 27 | 27 | - | | Giancarlo Stanton | 25 mil AAV | 15* | 15* | 15* Club Option |
| | Stroman | 18 mil AAV | 18 mil** |
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| | DJ LeMahaieu | 15 mil AAV | 15 |
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| TOTAL
| 161 mil AAV | 151 mil AAV | 118 mil | 103 | 40 |
* For Stanton, Marlins retain $10 mil salary of 2026, 2027, 2028 per the opt-in ( Spotrac) **Stroman vesting player option Jazz is in his final year of arb in 2026. Volpe & Luis Gil enter arb in 2026. It looks like if they add Soto they'd only be in continued luxury tax hell for 2-3 more years. Maybe they haven't really thought things through, maybe they've talked themselves into "yeah we're willing to pay that" or they've convinced themselves the can move money if they need to. But I just don't know that it's going to be a huge deterrent because they've known the situation they've been in for a full year ahead of trying to re-sign Soto. Like are they going to re-crunch the numbers before their meeting and be like, "Oh crap, we have all this money on the books we forgot about, we're going to pull our 500 to 600 mil offer"? Where they're probably in a tough spot is if the bidding just goes up to another echelon - I know Michael Kay (Yankees broadcaster) has been saying if it gets to a certain number Cashman and Hal Steinbrenner might just not go pass it. It's unclear how much wiggle room they have beyond their initial bid. I mentioned this earlier. The issue isn't just Soto's contract and tax bill for him. If they sign him to a $50 mill AAV then they'd still have to fill their other holes with money. They don't have much in the farm system to fill holes for league minimum or to trade to fill those holes. They'll most likely have to be filled with money. If they want to add Soto, a SP, bullpen arms, and an IF, that adds up to a lot of money and tax. |
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Nov 15, 2024 12:12:44 GMT -5
I mentioned this earlier. The issue isn't just Soto's contract and tax bill for him. If they sign him to a $50 mill AAV then they'd still have to fill their other holes with money. They don't have much in the farm system to fill holes for league minimum or to trade to fill those holes. They'll most likely have to be filled with money. If they want to add Soto, a SP, bullpen arms, and an IF, that adds up to a lot of money and tax. The Yankees seem to think they can backfill spots with minor leaguers (Dominguez, Caleb Durbin), very old - and potentially washed - veterans (LeMahieu) and finding cheap diamonds in the rough (aka more Luke Weavers & Tim Hills.) Now that might make sense to them. But you're right - that's not exactly an ideal way to build out the rest of your team for the foreseeable future. The Red Sox pitch meeting seems to have provided quite a contrasting vision of stud prospects coming and that they're now able/willing to spend. If the bids are close, we'll see what vision Soto likes more 🤷 |
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Juan Soto
Nov 15, 2024 12:14:15 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 15, 2024 12:14:15 GMT -5
2028 Volpe is third year arb with a big payday, Wells second year and Dominguez first year. Does not look promising for them to have much cheap talent behind them.
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ematz1423
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Nov 15, 2024 12:22:42 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2024 12:22:42 GMT -5
The Yankees could conceivably get under the LT in a few years if they decided to just punt on FAs in a couple seasons but considering their farm isn't terribly strong or so it seems anyway it's hard to imagine them fielding strong teams in 3-4 years if they do punt.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 15, 2024 12:24:26 GMT -5
This would be a good time for the Yankees to do an extension for Volpe, I'd think. But they don't seem to be into that sort of thing.
The more I look at this the more I think the Red Sox make the most rational sense as Soto's landing spot, and it's just a question of whether Steve Cohen decides to get irrational. And with that in mind I'd consider the Mets favorites.
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2024 12:26:36 GMT -5
This would be a good time for the Yankees to do an extension for Volpe, I'd think. But they don't seem to be into that sort of thing. The more I look at this the more I think the Red Sox make the most rational sense as Soto's landing spot, and it's just a question of whether Steve Cohen decides to get irrational. And with that in mind I'd consider the Mets favorites. Seems like a perfect storm situation to take the plunge on Soto but same as you I'm just having a hard time envisioning John Henry outbidding Cohen and this isn't me calling Henry cheap I just think Cohen is a mad man and if he sees Soto as his guy good luck. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 15, 2024 12:31:18 GMT -5
Steve Cohen? The guy who cried uncle after paying one year of the Steve Cohen tax?
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Post by rkarp on Nov 15, 2024 12:36:30 GMT -5
this isn't a Soto or bust offseason for me
the big 4 are knocking on the door, and they can be used to fill holes in a big way thru a trade or two
Casas, Wilyer, Cedanne should all be better. Story should be healthy
I am fine signing Fried, Scott and bringing back Pivetta. Sign Teo.
Thats a great offseason for me
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 15, 2024 12:38:33 GMT -5
this isn't a Soto or bust offseason for me the big 4 are knocking on the door, and they can be used to fill holes in a big way thru a trade or two Casas, Wilyer, Cedanne should all be better. Story should be healthy I am fine signing Fried, Scott and bringing back Pivetta. Sign Teo. Thats a great offseason for me I agree and I don't think or at least hope most if not the full board agrees. There are a lot of avenues they can improve this team that don't include Soto. Soto is just the fun target right now since he's basically a unicorn in the baseball world. |
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Post by incandenza on Nov 15, 2024 12:39:03 GMT -5
Steve Cohen? The guy who cried uncle after paying one year of the Steve Cohen tax? I read that as him realizing that he can't actually purchase a championship by just spending all his money at once and he has to be at least a little strategic about how and when to spend. But I did not take it to mean that he isn't still the most free-spending owner in the league.
But... didn't I read somewhere that David Stearns might actually be inclined to spread the budget around rather than going all-in on Soto? At the very least it would be helpful for him to have Cohen's ear if that's the case.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Nov 15, 2024 12:49:15 GMT -5
Steve Cohen? The guy who cried uncle after paying one year of the Steve Cohen tax? I read that as him realizing that he can't actually purchase a championship by just spending all his money at once and he has to be at least a little strategic about how and when to spend. But I did not take it to mean that he isn't still the most free-spending owner in the league.
But... didn't I read somewhere that David Stearns might actually be inclined to spread the budget around rather than going all-in on Soto? At the very least it would be helpful for him to have Cohen's ear if that's the case.
Yeah Stearns is the interesting factor here. They eyed him from the Brewers for over a year to take over the Mets. Suffice to say he has likely not had negotiations of players asking for half a billion dollars from his Milwaukee days - whether he is like a kid in a candy store with Steve Cohen's money or painfully uncomfortable with that level of bidding (or if Boras is even speaking with him but instead has jumped straight to wooing Cohen) I guess we just don't know. Here's some trivia courtesy of Spotrac: The Mets luxury tax bill the last two years combined was 200 million dollars. That same amount would have been equal to the 15th highest payroll in baseball last year ahead of the Angels at 189 mil. Jesus |
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Post by evanstonredsox on Nov 15, 2024 13:37:45 GMT -5
It just truly hit me that there’s a (wildly unlikely) world in which Juan Soto and Vlad Jr are both Red Sox this year and now I’m having a hard time focusing at work
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 15, 2024 14:13:58 GMT -5
What do Pete Alonso, Teoscar Hernandez, Anthony Santander, Eugenio Suarez, Willy Adames, Alex Bregman, and Pete Alonso all have in common? They're the same person! OMG I'm so dumb, in my defense it's friday and I'm in the middle of a liquid lunch. They're all RHB in this years free agent class and they all have lower OPS vs LHP than Soto. |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 15, 2024 14:21:54 GMT -5
OMG I'm so dumb, in my defense it's friday and I'm in the middle of a liquid lunch. They're all RHB in this years free agent class and they all have lower OPS vs LHP than Soto. In all seriousness I did assume it was a RHB thing, the OPS stat is wild though. |
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kwodes
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Post by kwodes on Nov 15, 2024 14:32:58 GMT -5
It just truly hit me that there’s a (wildly unlikely) world in which Juan Soto and Vlad Jr are both Red Sox this year and now I’m having a hard time focusing at work I wouldn't even care if they didn't sign a single pitcher. I'd still love it. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 15, 2024 14:35:23 GMT -5
OMG I'm so dumb, in my defense it's friday and I'm in the middle of a liquid lunch. They're all RHB in this years free agent class and they all have lower OPS vs LHP than Soto. In all seriousness I did assume it was a RHB thing, the OPS stat is wild though. I know! I'm having fantasies of a team burning thru their LHP in the pen and then having to face Soto/Devers/Casas in the the 9th. Like good luck with that. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 15, 2024 14:36:04 GMT -5
It just truly hit me that there’s a (wildly unlikely) world in which Juan Soto and Vlad Jr are both Red Sox this year and now I’m having a hard time focusing at work I wouldn't even care if they didn't sign a single pitcher. I'd still love it. The crazy thing is they could still sign an elite pitcher or two and be in a position to reset in a year or two if they were deadset on resetting. |
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