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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 16, 2024 10:09:20 GMT -5
Devers, Soto, Casas, Yoshida, Duran, Hamiltion, Anthony, Abreau......and talking about too many lefties is silly talk. Come on boys. I know some guys would be traded, but still.
I need to go on the record here, though. Not a fan of it. between him and Devers that is what....70 to 90 million a year, anywhere from 25-35 percent of Luxury tax payroll. For 2 guys. Not sure that is a good idea.
Plus we need pitching. Would rather they focus on extending Duran and Casas to team friendly deals and shop for pitching. Bailey is gonna thrown our guys arms out with this no fastball nonsense.
Hard Pass on da Soto. Great player though.
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Juan Soto
Nov 16, 2024 10:14:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pappyman99 on Nov 16, 2024 10:14:35 GMT -5
12 years $620 million
Really want this. Him and Devers for the next decade could be beastly, at least for the next 6-7 years.
Gives the Sox a clear plan to make sure the farm is stacked in the latter half of their contracts
Give us another generational hitter in LF
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 16, 2024 10:20:16 GMT -5
Devers, Soto, Casas, Yoshida, Duran, Hamiltion, Anthony, Abreau......and talking about too many lefties is silly talk. Come on boys. I know some guys would be traded, but still. I need to go on the record here, though. Not a fan of it. between him and Devers that is what....70 to 90 million a year, anywhere from 25-35 percent of Luxury tax payroll. For 2 guys. Not sure that is a good idea. Plus we need pitching. Would rather they focus on extending Duran and Casas to team friendly deals and shop for pitching. Bailey is gonna thrown our guys arms out with this no fastball nonsense. Hard Pass on da Soto. Great player though. The same nonsense that made the Sox almost a half run better pitching last year? Also, a crazy idea here - they can sign Soto AND address pitching |
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Post by incandenza on Nov 16, 2024 10:31:00 GMT -5
Devers, Soto, Casas, Yoshida, Duran, Hamiltion, Anthony, Abreau......and talking about too many lefties is silly talk. Come on boys. I know some guys would be traded, but still. I need to go on the record here, though. Not a fan of it. between him and Devers that is what.... 70 to 90 million a year, anywhere from 25-35 percent of Luxury tax payroll. For 2 guys. Not sure that is a good idea. Plus we need pitching. Would rather they focus on extending Duran and Casas to team friendly deals and shop for pitching. Bailey is gonna thrown our guys arms out with this no fastball nonsense. Hard Pass on da Soto. Great player though. - Is 8 out of 13 position players really excessively out of balance? They'd still have Story, Grissom, Campbell, Wong, Rafaela, Refsnyder; and it would not be terribly hard to trade Abreu and replace him with a righty bat.
- Devers' AAV is $29 million. I'm pretty sure Soto isn't getting a $60 million AAV so call it a $70-80 million range. That's what the Yankees are paying Judge/Cole; it's what the Dodgers are paying Ohtani/Glasnow; just slightly more than the Phillies are paying Wheeler/Turner or what the Rangers are paying DeGrom/Seager. That's just what it looks like to have a top-tier payroll (which I thought was what everyone wanted for the Red Sox!). But unlike all those other pairs Devers and Soto would still be in their 20s.
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Post by scottysmalls on Nov 16, 2024 10:31:05 GMT -5
Soto is better at hitting lefties than any righty they could conceivably get
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Post by incandenza on Nov 16, 2024 10:35:52 GMT -5
Soto is better at hitting lefties than any righty they could conceivably get I'm with you directionally but Soto's career wRC+ vs. LHP is 135. O'Neill's is 152. Teoscar's is 140.
Soto will probably be better than those guys as soon as 2 or 3 years from now, though, given the age difference.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 16, 2024 11:04:31 GMT -5
This might or might not matter in the least to Soto, but when he meets with the Mets I'm sure Steve Cohen will be there meeting with him front and center.
I'm wondering why John Henry wasn't there, deciding to have Werner represent ownership instead and if that makes an impression upon Soto one way or the other - and very perhaps it doesnt matter in the least.
I also wonder why Ortiz and Pedro werent present for the sales pitch, although I read that Ortiz was hanging with mother and sister whole this was going on?
Ultimately it sounds like money will be what decides this and I doubt Cohen has any lines drawn, which is why I expect him to be a Met, but I just wondered why instead of a Dominican heritage presentation featuring Pedro, Ortiz, and Manny, why not have those dudes actually present in the meeting? Nothing like a live testamonial.
Well, either way, now they've done it. I've gone from thinking they have no chance to thinking they might actually have the 2nd best chance, although I still think he winds up with the Mets and dont discount the possibility of him going back to the Yankees.
But damn it, now I'm emotionally invested and will go crazy if they get him and disappointed if they dont. Wasnt prepared to go there, lol
Ok rational self time...Soto can't pitch. Either way they do need pitching....
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asm18
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Juan Soto
Nov 16, 2024 11:08:07 GMT -5
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Post by asm18 on Nov 16, 2024 11:08:07 GMT -5
Are we just leverage
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Post by scottysmalls on Nov 16, 2024 11:11:49 GMT -5
Soto is better at hitting lefties than any righty they could conceivably get I'm with you directionally but Soto's career wRC+ vs. LHP is 135. O'Neill's is 152. Teoscar's is 140.
Soto will probably be better than those guys as soon as 2 or 3 years from now, though, given the age difference.
Fair was just thinking of the 2024 splits, but it's true their projections for 2025 vs. lefties are probably all within the margin of error of eachother's. |
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Post by incandenza on Nov 16, 2024 11:45:46 GMT -5
We knew at least the Yankees and Mets were still in line, right?
Has anyone mentioned any other teams at all or are we already down to these four? If Boras really wanted to play the leverage game he could at least get the Dodgers in the room to make their own "impressive presentation."
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Post by jmanny24 on Nov 16, 2024 11:57:52 GMT -5
Not trying to be snarky, but what does this even mean? Like no kidding Bora...I mean Heyman we all know two other teams are meeting him next week and we know those meetings will be equally impressive. So I'm not sure what this tweet is trying to convey. |
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 16, 2024 12:07:13 GMT -5
It just truly hit me that there’s a (wildly unlikely) world in which Juan Soto and Vlad Jr are both Red Sox this year and now I’m having a hard time focusing at work And it seems like their chances of having at least one seem to be… pretty decent? 25%? Apologies as I don't follow this stuff like I used to but what's the Vlad thing? They're gonna trade him? Then why are they going after Soto... |
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Nov 16, 2024 12:07:33 GMT -5
We knew at least the Yankees and Mets were still in line, right?
Has anyone mentioned any other teams at all or are we already down to these four? If Boras really wanted to play the leverage game he could at least get the Dodgers in the room to make their own "impressive presentation."
Haha fair. I guess I just have a reflexive negative reaction whenever Heyman says anything positive relating to the Red Sox. I also do not like to be mentioned in the same sentence as the Blue Jays, who I can only assume their pitch to Soto was: WE SUCK AND WE PLAY IN CANADA! |
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Post by incandenza on Nov 16, 2024 12:17:05 GMT -5
We knew at least the Yankees and Mets were still in line, right?
Has anyone mentioned any other teams at all or are we already down to these four? If Boras really wanted to play the leverage game he could at least get the Dodgers in the room to make their own "impressive presentation."
Haha fair. I guess I just have a reflexive negative reaction whenever Heyman says anything positive relating to the Red Sox. I also do not like to be mentioned in the same sentence as the Blue Jays, who I can only assume their pitch to Soto was: WE SUCK AND WE PLAY IN CANADA!"2025. Twenty-twenty-five. Crazy, right? Sounds like science fiction, a year like that. Did you know that ' 2001' was set in the year 2001? And 2025 is 24 years after that! So far in the future. Anyway, we have a plan to be competitive all the way through 2025." |
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Juan Soto
Nov 16, 2024 12:17:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 16, 2024 12:17:19 GMT -5
And it seems like their chances of having at least one seem to be… pretty decent? 25%? Apologies as I don't follow this stuff like I used to but what's the Vlad thing? They're gonna trade him? Then why are they going after Soto... Because having not one but two future HOFs who are 26 years old gives you the best lineup in the AL? |
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Juan Soto
Nov 16, 2024 12:23:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 16, 2024 12:23:55 GMT -5
Devers, Soto, Casas, Yoshida, Duran, Hamiltion, Anthony, Abreau......and talking about too many lefties is silly talk. Come on boys. I know some guys would be traded, but still. I need to go on the record here, though. Not a fan of it. between him and Devers that is what....70 to 90 million a year, anywhere from 25-35 percent of Luxury tax payroll. For 2 guys. Not sure that is a good idea. Plus we need pitching. Would rather they focus on extending Duran and Casas to team friendly deals and shop for pitching. Bailey is gonna thrown our guys arms out with this no fastball nonsense. Hard Pass on da Soto. Great player though. I think you might be forgetting that Soto’s contact will be paid for in about two seasons from memorabilia, sponsorships, tickets, etc. There’s zero reason Henry shouldn’t want to sign him. If he doesn’t, it’s because he’s a greedy billionaire who’s penny pincher. |
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Post by fenwaydouble on Nov 16, 2024 12:46:13 GMT -5
Apologies as I don't follow this stuff like I used to but what's the Vlad thing? They're gonna trade him? Then why are they going after Soto... Because having not one but two future HOFs who are 26 years old gives you the best lineup in the AL? If you give Soto $600 million then you need Casas on his cheap deal more than ever. If anything it makes me more inclined to cash in on Duran before he gets expensive and roll with the young outfielders. |
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Juan Soto
Nov 16, 2024 13:06:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 16, 2024 13:06:34 GMT -5
Because having not one but two future HOFs who are 26 years old gives you the best lineup in the AL? If you give Soto $600 million then you need Casas on his cheap deal more than ever. If anything it makes me more inclined to cash in on Duran before he gets expensive and roll with the young outfielders. I think it’s safe to say that Casas is the one going to the Blue Jays if they swing a trade for Vladdy. Also, I love Duran, but I’m not giving him an extension with his type of player profile. |
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Post by fenwaydouble on Nov 16, 2024 13:09:07 GMT -5
If you give Soto $600 million then you need Casas on his cheap deal more than ever. If anything it makes me more inclined to cash in on Duran before he gets expensive and roll with the young outfielders. I think it’s safe to say that Casas is the one going to the Blue Jays if they swing a trade for Vladdy. Also, I love Duran, but I’m not giving him an extension with his type of player profile. My point is they shouldn’t trade Casas to Vlad. |
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Post by incandenza on Nov 16, 2024 13:23:07 GMT -5
And it seems like their chances of having at least one seem to be… pretty decent? 25%? Apologies as I don't follow this stuff like I used to but what's the Vlad thing? They're gonna trade him? Then why are they going after Soto... People sort of missed your point here, but the Blue Jays have said they're not interested in trading Vlad. There has nonetheless been speculation that they might be compelled to.
But yeah, it would make no sense for them to trade him as long as they're still trying to sign Soto. What could sorta maybe happen is if they miss out on Soto and other FA targets like Bregman and just decide to do a mid-stream reversal and trade Vlad at that point. But that seems really unlikely to me. I think they're ride-or-die for 2025 - at least until the trade deadline...
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Post by burythehammer on Nov 16, 2024 15:33:39 GMT -5
Apologies as I don't follow this stuff like I used to but what's the Vlad thing? They're gonna trade him? Then why are they going after Soto... Because having not one but two future HOFs who are 26 years old gives you the best lineup in the AL? I was referring to the Jays, not the Sox. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 16, 2024 15:42:31 GMT -5
Devers, Soto, Casas, Yoshida, Duran, Hamiltion, Anthony, Abreau......and talking about too many lefties is silly talk. Come on boys. I know some guys would be traded, but still. I need to go on the record here, though. Not a fan of it. between him and Devers that is what....70 to 90 million a year, anywhere from 25-35 percent of Luxury tax payroll. For 2 guys. Not sure that is a good idea. Plus we need pitching. Would rather they focus on extending Duran and Casas to team friendly deals and shop for pitching. Bailey is gonna thrown our guys arms out with this no fastball nonsense. Hard Pass on da Soto. Great player though. Also, a crazy idea here - they can sign Soto AND address pitching it is fair to point that out. it is also fair to say that the ridiculously hot start helped the overall. It wasn't that good for long stretches in the 2nd half, IIRC. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 16, 2024 15:48:30 GMT -5
Devers, Soto, Casas, Yoshida, Duran, Hamiltion, Anthony, Abreau......and talking about too many lefties is silly talk. Come on boys. I know some guys would be traded, but still. I need to go on the record here, though. Not a fan of it. between him and Devers that is what.... 70 to 90 million a year, anywhere from 25-35 percent of Luxury tax payroll. For 2 guys. Not sure that is a good idea. Plus we need pitching. Would rather they focus on extending Duran and Casas to team friendly deals and shop for pitching. Bailey is gonna thrown our guys arms out with this no fastball nonsense. Hard Pass on da Soto. Great player though. - Is 8 out of 13 position players really excessively out of balance? They'd still have Story, Grissom, Campbell, Wong, Rafaela, Refsnyder; and it would not be terribly hard to trade Abreu and replace him with a righty bat.
- Devers' AAV is $29 million. I'm pretty sure Soto isn't getting a $60 million AAV so call it a $70-80 million range. That's what the Yankees are paying Judge/Cole; it's what the Dodgers are paying Ohtani/Glasnow; just slightly more than the Phillies are paying Wheeler/Turner or what the Rangers are paying DeGrom/Seager. That's just what it looks like to have a top-tier payroll (which I thought was what everyone wanted for the Red Sox!). But unlike all those other pairs Devers and Soto would still be in their 20s.
a. my man, that is no murderers row. We can't rely on that, in any sense of the word, if the past is prologue. b. the Key here is that some of that money is going to pitching as well. Ours would be for 2 left handed bats. I am not seeing similarity. I been beating the door down for singing expensive FA, and this is a once in a generation opportunity, for sure. I just am very wary of putting it on him, given the overall talent structure in the organization. I would rather trade prospects for stud pitching, if that is necessary. Equilibrium. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 16, 2024 16:11:48 GMT -5
If you give Soto $600 million then you need Casas on his cheap deal more than ever. If anything it makes me more inclined to cash in on Duran before he gets expensive and roll with the young outfielders. I think it’s safe to say that Casas is the one going to the Blue Jays if they swing a trade for Vladdy. Also, I love Duran, but I’m not giving him an extension with his type of player profile. i think you could get Duran for 5 and between 70-80 million (likely more towards 80). He is a late bloomer. I can't imagine he wouldn't take the money. Plus, his profile doesn't scream greedy ballplayer to me. That seems like a great deal for a guy who put up 8.7 bWAR last year. He only needs to average 3 / 4 WAR to get surplus there. He and Houck should be first items on the agenda this offseason. |
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Nov 16, 2024 17:34:15 GMT -5
I think it’s safe to say that Casas is the one going to the Blue Jays if they swing a trade for Vladdy. Also, I love Duran, but I’m not giving him an extension with his type of player profile. i think you could get Duran for 5 and between 70-80 million (likely more towards 80). He is a late bloomer. I can't imagine he wouldn't take the money. Plus, his profile doesn't scream greedy ballplayer to me. That seems like a great deal for a guy who put up 8.7 bWAR last year. He only needs to average 3 / 4 WAR to get surplus there. He and Houck should be first items on the agenda this offseason. We have Duran for four more seasons which will take him into an age when his skills may decline. There is zero reason to think about trying to keep him in 2030 and beyond. |
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