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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Nov 20, 2024 16:37:32 GMT -5
As some of you have alluded, I'd have to imagine Driveline is a part of the pitch as well. Seems like we're one of the only teams extensively fortified on the cutting edge in that regard. I honestly don't think there's much room for improvement in his swing, but hopefully that appeals to him!
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Juan Soto
Nov 20, 2024 17:43:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by finaliz3d on Nov 20, 2024 17:43:10 GMT -5
I just don't see him going back to the Yankees, not that he necessarily goes to the Red Sox but the only advantage the Yankees is that he's played with them. But the Mets can offer more money and the Red Sox can offer the best farm system. Also if he cares about being the best player on a team, the Yankees and Dodgers are the two teams in the sweepstakes where he wouldn't be the top guy. What do the Yankees offer besides being his current team?
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Nov 20, 2024 17:46:29 GMT -5
Calling Juan Soto "a heck of a hitter" is underselling him pretty hard. You have to remember, when I first became a baseball fan it was watching Ted Williams. Juan Soto is a heck of a hitter. But he ain't no Ted Williams. But of course, Williams, it can be argued, wasn't a generational talent - he was an all-time talent. 100%. I grew up watching him too and, yeah he just different from anybody, probably ever. And as a reminder he missed his 24,25 and 26 year old seaons for WWII and his about 3/4 of his 33 and 34 age seasons for Korea. That's prime time and a lot of missing hits and HRs (and he was the first and greatest of the Sox regime of marginal defensive LF, he could play that wall though.)  |
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Post by curll on Nov 20, 2024 17:50:34 GMT -5
Soto isn't Williams or Bonds or maybe even Manny/Papi. But, his floor for the rest of his career is a better Bobby Abreu. That's easy to build a 10-15 year franchise plan around when you've already got money and talent.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Nov 20, 2024 17:59:26 GMT -5
Soto, age 26: 36.4 bWAR
Manny, age 26: 12.6 bWAR
Ortiz, age 26: 1.3 bWAR
Manny, career total: 69.3 bWAR
Ortiz, career total: 55.3 bWAR
Honestly, Soto will probably blow both out of the water fairly easily. No question to me he’s better than either of them by a long shot.
No disrespect to Papi.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 3,072
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Post by asm18 on Nov 20, 2024 18:13:26 GMT -5
Through age 25 season:
Juan Soto
.285/.421/.532
934 hits
179 doubles
201 homers
592 RBI
Hank Aaron
.323/.372/.559
1137 hits
205 doubles
179 homers
617 RBI
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Post by finaliz3d on Nov 20, 2024 18:17:33 GMT -5
Juan Soto has 36 fWAR in 7 years, realistically it's 34 in 6 years because of the shortened year. Ortiz's peak six years don't come close to that. Peak Manny is about 34 fWAR in his 6 best years, but that's not in 6 straight years like Soto pretty much has done. The only Red Sox hitter post 2000 who is better than him at a sustained peak fWAR wise is Mookie Betts. Even then, Soto is the superior hitter, Betts peak comes also from his baserunning and defense in addition to still being a crazy good hitter. There is no better pure hitter the Red Sox have had in a very long time if he signs here.
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Post by eyebob on Nov 20, 2024 18:19:12 GMT -5
Hank Aaron is in my personal all-time team as a starter in the OF. Incredible player. Incredible human.
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Post by dirtdog on Nov 20, 2024 21:22:44 GMT -5
Opinion: Hal didn't sound confident and he certainly has proven he isnt his father when it comes to will to win. The team to beat IMO is the Mets. Simple reason, Cohen has shown he will do what ever it takes to get players. In this case the quote I heard was he was willing to beat the highest offer by 50 million dollars. So if it is about money, the Mets are clearly the favorite.
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Post by badballhitter on Nov 20, 2024 21:44:29 GMT -5
Opinion: Hal didn't sound confident and he certainly has proven he isnt his father when it comes to will to win. The team to beat IMO is the Mets. Simple reason, Cohen has shown he will do what ever it takes to get players. In this case the quote I heard was he was willing to beat the highest offer by 50 million dollars. So if it is about money, the Mets are clearly the favorite. I wonder what that means exactly though. julyanmorley pointed out that if the Mets offer is $660M then the state tax implications mean that an equivalent Sox offer would only have to be $618M. Beating the Sox offer by by $50M barely covers the tax difference. |
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Post by taiwansox on Nov 20, 2024 21:56:10 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 20, 2024 21:57:28 GMT -5
You have to remember, when I first became a baseball fan it was watching Ted Williams. Juan Soto is a heck of a hitter. But he ain't no Ted Williams. But of course, Williams, it can be argued, wasn't a generational talent - he was an all-time talent. 100%. I grew up watching him too and, yeah he just different from anybody, probably ever. And as a reminder he missed his 24,25 and 26 year old seaons for WWII and his about 3/4 of his 33 and 34 age seasons for Korea. That's prime time and a lot of missing hits and HRs (and he was the first and greatest of the Sox regime of marginal defensive LF, he could play that wall though.) I deeply appreciate both of your recollections about Ted. They’re great to hear for us folks who are in their 30s and younger. But let’s remember that Soto by BRef metrics is comparable to Frank Robinson, Ken Griffey Jr., Eddie Matthews and Mickey Mantle. Those names ain’t Ted, but I’ll be damned that another hitter like this at this age comes along as a free agent for another 10-20 years. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 20, 2024 22:00:04 GMT -5
Opinion: Hal didn't sound confident and he certainly has proven he isnt his father when it comes to will to win. The team to beat IMO is the Mets. Simple reason, Cohen has shown he will do what ever it takes to get players. In this case the quote I heard was he was willing to beat the highest offer by 50 million dollars. So if it is about money, the Mets are clearly the favorite. I wonder what that means exactly though. julyanmorley pointed out that if the Mets offer is $660M then the state tax implications mean that an equivalent Sox offer would only have to be $618M. Beating the Sox offer by by $50M barely covers the tax difference. Understood, but I really thing Boras is targeting a record. He won't get Soto 70 million per year or whatever but with Soto's young age and the ability to get a 14 or 15 year deal, I think hes targeting a number higher than the reported 700 million Ohtani landed. It's like bagging a trophy. The first A-Rod deal that was 252 million? That number wasnt an accident. It was 2 times the Kevin Garnett deal which was the largest in sports at that time. I think this is one of Boras' patented moves. |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 20, 2024 22:02:48 GMT -5
This is the dumbest thing ever but i’m bought in |
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Post by southernbosox on Nov 20, 2024 22:10:07 GMT -5
This is the dumbest thing ever but i’m bought in Same. So dumb. But it really does feel different. If they go 600mm I think they’ll get him…. Again, I’m in idiot. |
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 3,019 
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 20, 2024 22:18:20 GMT -5
It's tough to find many hitters in history who compare to Soto through age 25 because he got an early start and was an instant killer.
But his teammate Judge (well, former teammate because Soto is not an MFY at the moment) has put up an average of 8.5 b-Ref WAR/162 games with a .288/.406/.604 slash line, for an OPS+ of 173 since entering the ML at the age of 24.
Soto's career OPS+ is 160 and his WAR/162 games is 6.3.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892
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Post by cdj on Nov 20, 2024 22:24:24 GMT -5
I think Soto ages a lot more gracefully than Judge does too- he’s not lugging 280 lbs around and doesn’t have the injury history Judge already has
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Post by badballhitter on Nov 20, 2024 22:25:19 GMT -5
I wonder what that means exactly though. julyanmorley pointed out that if the Mets offer is $660M then the state tax implications mean that an equivalent Sox offer would only have to be $618M. Beating the Sox offer by by $50M barely covers the tax difference. Understood, but I really thing Boras is targeting a record. He won't get Soto 70 million per year or whatever but with Soto's young age and the ability to get a 14 or 15 year deal, I think hes targeting a number higher than the reported 700 million Ohtani landed. It's like bagging a trophy. The first A-Rod deal that was 252 million? That number wasnt an accident. It was 2 times the Kevin Garnett deal which was the largest in sports at that time. I think this is one of Boras' patented moves. I agree that Boras has his goals and targets, but Soto isn't taking a haircut in real dollars just to satisfy Boras' ego. |
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Juan Soto
Nov 20, 2024 22:31:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sxfan on Nov 20, 2024 22:31:11 GMT -5
I wonder if Sam Kennedy got the job he was looking for? What does this even mean? |
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 3,019
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 20, 2024 22:32:32 GMT -5
I think Soto ages a lot more gracefully than Judge does too- he’s not lugging 280 lbs around and doesn’t have the injury history Judge already has This is probably right, though body type doesn't always predict a player's ability to sustain greatness. Papi! Soto's defense could descend to downright fugly as his speed and quickness deteriorate in his early 30s. That'll cut into his WAR. B-Ref has him at -5.1 dWAR for his career and that's without the ravages of age. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 20, 2024 22:34:58 GMT -5
Understood, but I really thing Boras is targeting a record. He won't get Soto 70 million per year or whatever but with Soto's young age and the ability to get a 14 or 15 year deal, I think hes targeting a number higher than the reported 700 million Ohtani landed. It's like bagging a trophy. The first A-Rod deal that was 252 million? That number wasnt an accident. It was 2 times the Kevin Garnett deal which was the largest in sports at that time. I think this is one of Boras' patented moves. I agree that Boras has his goals and targets, but Soto isn't taking a haircut in real dollars just to satisfy Boras' ego. Agreed, but if Cohen goes to 700 and above the Sox will need to stay within 40 million to come close. I could see Cohen going bananas and bidding 700 - 750 if he must. If so ts hard to see the Sox stating in shouting distance if they tot to get up to 650 - 675 or even higher to be about even when taxes are factored in. If the Sox are in sniffing distance then if they get him that woukd be one helluva sales job. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 20, 2024 22:36:27 GMT -5
I wonder if Sam Kennedy got the job he was looking for? What does this even mean? Juan Soto said he was "impressed" by their presentation, lol And what exactly does it mean by "was quite pleased"? |
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 3,019
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 20, 2024 22:41:13 GMT -5
This is the dumbest thing ever but i’m bought in Same. So dumb. But it really does feel different. If they go 600mm I think they’ll get him…. Again, I’m in idiot. I am also an idiot, brother. My what-the-hell-do-I-know guess is that the Red Sox will offer $44 million/year for 14 years, a total payout of $616, with multiple opt-outs. I don't think that will get it done. I expect him to be a Met. |
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Post by taiwansox on Nov 20, 2024 22:59:31 GMT -5
This is the dumbest thing ever but i’m bought in Twitter has all the best click bait news, but sometimes it’s real, gotta love the suspense and thrill haha |
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 3,019
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 20, 2024 23:04:20 GMT -5
And how does one tell when Sam Kennedy is "quite pleased"? Does his dullness score on the 1-10 scale drop from a 9.7 to a 9.6?
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