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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 23, 2024 16:07:12 GMT -5
Are we really gonna spend time questioning Soto’s age just because he happens to be Dominican?
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 23, 2024 16:29:28 GMT -5
So this is now 4 different David Ortiz interviews where I guess he's just there to hype up the fans about Juan Soto? Kinda weird tbh
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ematz1423
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Juan Soto
Nov 23, 2024 16:36:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ematz1423 on Nov 23, 2024 16:36:03 GMT -5
It seems to me the only obstacle is money which is probably the only obstacle to start with anyway. I think they actually may do it. Maybe I'm a fool, probably so but I think they're going to get him?
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Nov 23, 2024 17:24:45 GMT -5
This certainly has a different feel to it than some of the half-baked “pursuits” of other top guys recently, and I’m starting to get really emotionally invested in this, for better or worse. Still hard to feel super confident but it’ll be exciting regardless
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Post by patford on Nov 23, 2024 17:29:15 GMT -5
It seems to me the only obstacle is money which is probably the only obstacle to start with anyway. I think they actually may do it. Maybe I'm a fool, probably so but I think they're going to get him? Another factor is in spite of the Yankees somehow stumbling into the World Series they are a team in decline while the Red Sox might have the brightest future in MLB. Signing Soto would not only boost the Red Sox it would be devastating for the Yankees and would make the Red Sox a desirable "destination" again. |
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Post by sublime on Nov 23, 2024 17:31:47 GMT -5
So this is now 4 different David Ortiz interviews where I guess he's just there to hype up the fans about Juan Soto? Kinda weird tbh Im pretty sure he's doing a press run for his charity benefit. |
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Post by orion09 on Nov 23, 2024 17:38:38 GMT -5
I think it's highly likely that Soto is exactly the age he says he is. But I do wonder.... If he signs under the supposition that he is 26, but it turns out he's really 29, is the contract void? Chances are extremely slim. If he was older, there would have been something that would have come up by now. Also, I really don’t like these narratives about how foreign players lie about their age. It very rarely happens nor does it really matter in the grand scheme of the player’s performance. Here’s an article from a newspaper literally headlined “Lying about age not uncommon for Dominican baseball players.” It happens… Miguel Tejada, Wandy Rodriguez, that prospect who was recently in the news. I would push back against the poster above who suggests it’s only because Soto is Dominican - I don’t see anyone accusing Jose Ramirez, Rafael Devers, Ketel Marte, etc. Soto was uniquely really good at an insanely young age. He’s an outlier. That said, I think he’s really just that good. It happens with generational players: Ken Griffey, Mike Trout, A-Rod, etc. www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/lying-about-age-not-uncommon-for-dominican-1781935.php |
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 23, 2024 17:41:33 GMT -5
Chances are extremely slim. If he was older, there would have been something that would have come up by now. Also, I really don’t like these narratives about how foreign players lie about their age. It very rarely happens nor does it really matter in the grand scheme of the player’s performance. Here’s an article from a newspaper literally headlined “Lying about age not uncommon for Dominican baseball players.” It happens… Miguel Tejada, Wandy Rodriguez, that prospect who was recently in the news. I would push back against the poster above who suggests it’s only because Soto is Dominican - I don’t see anyone accusing Jose Ramirez, Rafael Devers, Ketel Marte, etc. Soto was uniquely really good at an insanely young age. He’s an outlier. That said, I think he’s really just that good. It happens with generational players: Ken Griffey, Mike Trout, A-Rod, etc. www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/lying-about-age-not-uncommon-for-dominican-1781935.php This article is from 2008. In 2000, the DR started issuing birth certificates. This is simply not as prevalent as it once was. |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 23, 2024 17:53:50 GMT -5
What are we doing here? Soto is 26 I'd bet my life savings on it. There is no tom foolery happening.
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Juan Soto
Nov 23, 2024 17:58:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by orion09 on Nov 23, 2024 17:58:11 GMT -5
Here’s an article from a newspaper literally headlined “Lying about age not uncommon for Dominican baseball players.” It happens… Miguel Tejada, Wandy Rodriguez, that prospect who was recently in the news. I would push back against the poster above who suggests it’s only because Soto is Dominican - I don’t see anyone accusing Jose Ramirez, Rafael Devers, Ketel Marte, etc. Soto was uniquely really good at an insanely young age. He’s an outlier. That said, I think he’s really just that good. It happens with generational players: Ken Griffey, Mike Trout, A-Rod, etc. www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/lying-about-age-not-uncommon-for-dominican-1781935.php This article is from 2008. In 2000, the DR started issuing birth certificates. This is simply not as prevalent as it once was. Well Soto was born in 1998, so that doesn’t help in this case. It clearly still happens to some extent, as demonstrated by the top Padres prospect who was just caught lying about his age by five (!) years. I would imagine having universal birth certificates makes it harder to get away with - hard to say if it’s less prevalent now, though that would make sense. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 23, 2024 18:04:14 GMT -5
It seems to me the only obstacle is money which is probably the only obstacle to start with anyway. I think they actually may do it. Maybe I'm a fool, probably so but I think they're going to get him? Some may say you’re a dreamer. You certainly aren’t the only one. |
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Post by itinerantherb on Nov 23, 2024 19:29:50 GMT -5
A couple months ago, I was curious about whether age falsification was still an issue. I know that it used to be (I recall the scuttlebutt about Pujols perhaps being three years older than his listed age) but thought I'd read somewhere that through a combination of improved record keeping in the DR and league and team vigilance, it had seriously declined. But I did fine this apparently well-sourced article from The Athletic, reporting that age fraud is actually on the rise in the DR. (And this is really not intended to imply anything about Soto.) Included are the following:
"Age and identity fraud among amateur baseball players in the Dominican Republic — once a major issue in the country — is on the rise again, according to executives and agents familiar with the sport’s international signings. Teenagers who have already officially signed, and others who agreed to future deals, may face MLB-issued suspensions, disrupting both the young players’ livelihoods and Major League Baseball teams’ talent pipelines.
. . .
“Fifteen, 20 years ago, this was a huge problem with what was referred to as ‘age-gate,’” a team executive involved in international amateur signings told The Athletic. “MLB responded by basically establishing an investigations unit in the DR. And, there’s always a couple (incidents) here and there, but it certainly felt like it wasn’t close to the issue that it was. And all of a sudden, it’s reared its head again in a gigantic way.”
. . .
One player who was drawing interest from the Red Sox is believed to have been more than six years older than he was presented as, executives and agents in the industry said. The player was previously not going to be eligible to be signed until 2026 — when teams were told he would be 16 years old. His current age is now thought to be 21 years old, sources said.
. . .
The league does background checks on international amateurs across all countries through its Age and Identity Investigation department, which was put in place over a decade ago. But the league does not vet players who are more than a year away from being eligible to be signed. Some teams therefore hire their own private investigators to check paperwork and backgrounds of younger players. Some of the players whose ages were recently brought into question were investigated by teams and others by the league itself.
. . .
After the “age-gate” issues of 15 to 20 years ago, MLB worked to address the issue and the problem declined in scale. Executives and agents cite a number of possible reasons for the uptick now.
For a time, one scouting director said, MLB’s investigators managed to largely clamp down on the practice, and offenders “stopped doing it because they weren’t able to get away with it. But apparently it got a little lax, and they started figuring out what the investigators are looking for, and like anything else, they exploit it.
. . .
“The challenge is, say you give a kid $1.5 million. MLB approves and says he’s 16. Then you find out he’s 19. You wouldn’t sign him for $1.5 million if he was 19,” one executive said. “We still might like the player. But if he’s 19, we might give him 25 grand or 50 grand.”
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 23, 2024 20:11:20 GMT -5
Unless there is something specific about Soto’s age other than his nationality we can skip this “discussion.”
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 23, 2024 21:05:31 GMT -5
Here’s an article from a newspaper literally headlined “Lying about age not uncommon for Dominican baseball players.” It happens… Miguel Tejada, Wandy Rodriguez, that prospect who was recently in the news. I would push back against the poster above who suggests it’s only because Soto is Dominican - I don’t see anyone accusing Jose Ramirez, Rafael Devers, Ketel Marte, etc. Soto was uniquely really good at an insanely young age. He’s an outlier. That said, I think he’s really just that good. It happens with generational players: Ken Griffey, Mike Trout, A-Rod, etc. www.chron.com/sports/astros/article/lying-about-age-not-uncommon-for-dominican-1781935.php This article is from 2008. In 2000, the DR started issuing birth certificates. This is simply not as prevalent as it once was. I seem to recall credible stories in the few years after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks that said the U.S. government was checking this much more closely, making it harder for BB players to lie about their age. I've been under the impression for a long time that it's no longer much of an issue. |
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Juan Soto
Nov 23, 2024 21:27:42 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sxfan on Nov 23, 2024 21:27:42 GMT -5
Unless there is something specific about Soto’s age other than his nationality we can skip this “discussion.” It's natural for fans try to find some chink in Soto's reputation, since he appears clean on and off the field. But he's just a natural phenomenon. A unicorn that was naturally this good at baseball/hitting since he picked up a bat. It'll suck if he chooses the Mets, knowing what could have been the rest of his career here. |
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Juan Soto
Nov 23, 2024 21:40:08 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sxfan on Nov 23, 2024 21:40:08 GMT -5
Doesn't seem like Passan is dismissing the Sox with Soto.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Nov 24, 2024 14:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 24, 2024 15:01:11 GMT -5
The leaks ought to get more interesting now. I'll bet Boras wants this deal done before the Winter Meetings start so he can hold court with his chest puffed out.
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Juan Soto
Nov 24, 2024 15:20:29 GMT -5
via mobile
cdj likes this
Post by redsoxfan2 on Nov 24, 2024 15:20:29 GMT -5
The leaks ought to get more interesting now. I'll bet Boras wants this deal done before the Winter Meetings start so he can hold court with his chest puffed out. Probably wants to get it done to get his other clients going. Boras got embarrassed by the Montgomery situation. |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 24, 2024 16:48:55 GMT -5
The leaks ought to get more interesting now. I'll bet Boras wants this deal done before the Winter Meetings start so he can hold court with his chest puffed out. I hope you’re right, but my read is that he wants the offers in by the Meetings so that he can basically run around leveraging them in order to get a deal done at the Meetings. |
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Post by patford on Nov 24, 2024 17:18:24 GMT -5
The Red Sox should just send Soto a signed contract with open areas for him to fill in as he sees fit. Cover letter begins with "David knows your character and says you can be completely trusted so we're leaving the terms and conditions up to you. If David trusts you that's all we need to know."
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 3,019
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Post by TearsIn04 on Nov 24, 2024 17:53:29 GMT -5
The leaks ought to get more interesting now. I'll bet Boras wants this deal done before the Winter Meetings start so he can hold court with his chest puffed out. Probably wants to get it done to get his other clients going. Boras got embarrassed by the Montgomery situation. I have to think he doesn't want to take a chance on one or more teams deciding they can't wait for Soto to set up their roster for '25 and need to seize opportunities that might arise at the winter meetings. If the Red Sox, for instance, nail down deals with TEO and Fried, they probably won't be looking to add another $45M in AAV on Soto. That would be great news for Steve Cohen, bad news for Boras. |
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 24, 2024 18:31:24 GMT -5
BREAKING NEWS…
There is no news. I’m immensely bored by lack of news and speculation, and I expect it will be like this til the week after next. God help us all…
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Juan Soto
Nov 24, 2024 18:34:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 24, 2024 18:34:10 GMT -5
Probably wants to get it done to get his other clients going. Boras got embarrassed by the Montgomery situation. I have to think he doesn't want to take a chance on one or more teams deciding they can't wait for Soto to set up their roster for '25 and need to seize opportunities that might arise at the winter meetings. If the Red Sox, for instance, nail down deals with TEO and Fried, they probably won't be looking to add another $45M in AAV on Soto. That would be great news for Steve Cohen, bad news for Boras. This is a dang good assumption. You’d have to think this is part of Boras’s thought process. Soto not signing within a couple of weeks not only limits his market (albeit to the biggest bidder in Cohen), it also affects the deals of his other clients in a likely negative way. |
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Post by rhswanzey on Nov 24, 2024 20:26:40 GMT -5
BREAKING NEWS… There is no news. I’m immensely bored by lack of news and speculation, and I expect it will be like this til the week after next. God help us all… This November is as close to 2000s energy (ARod, Schilling, Dice-K) as we’re going to get. I can’t remember the last time I felt compelled to dig through rumor mill updates on a daily basis. Hopefully ownership is making the connection between offseason excitement (or lack thereof) and several thousand unsold seats for each one of their home dates. Even when you don’t win the player and/or don’t make the deep playoff run, there’s a cost to declining the opportunity for a momentum and atmosphere boost by punting on several consecutive offseasons. |
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