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Jon Denney
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 14, 2014 16:50:42 GMT -5
Personally, I don't care about character issues. I do care about felonies though. I don't think this incident says anything about Denney's development as a baseball player but rather about his inability to be a functional member of society. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but if guilty he should be in jail.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Mar 14, 2014 17:23:06 GMT -5
Jon Denney is a real POS. Read the Yahoo story and see how little respect he has for society and the police. There's a heck of a lot more in play here than alcohol. He needs to be told by the Red Sox that he's on his last legs with the organization. I really can't believe the crap he pulled with the police. He also needs to be told to stop drinking - he's clearly a drunk. You are overreacting Classic case of the Oil Can calling the pot & kettle, black. While I do agree with a lot of what you said, he does need to clean his act up. But like a few have already mentioned on the Denney Thread, we've all done stupid things, we just weren't on the spotlight. I still think Britton's high speed drunken chase was far more offensive that spouting off to a couple Florida cops. Now let's just wait and see how he responds, Britton seemed to learn his lesson. Hopefully this is Denney's wake up call.
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Post by h11233 on Mar 14, 2014 17:30:41 GMT -5
Personally, I don't care about character issues. I do care about felonies though. I don't think this incident says anything about Denney's development as a baseball player but rather about his inability to be a functional member of society. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but if guilty he should be in jail. Is it only the driving under suspension he got busted for? I don't see anything about dui, etc. I recently got caught driving under suspension. I got a grand total of $0.00 fines and paid $80 in court fees. I highly doubt he'll see jail time, and honestly it seems kind of excessive to me that they put him in jail for the night (assuming that was the only charge).
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 14, 2014 17:33:15 GMT -5
Assuming this is all true, he's clearly and arrogant POS in a lot if respects, but people are complex and where a lot of labels. Britton seems to have changed big time from his incident and to write off Denny would be a mistake. It's a huge strike against him though and if he doesn't clean up his act he won't make it anywhere. He's not the transcendent talent who can sleepwalk his way to the big leagues.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Mar 14, 2014 17:41:56 GMT -5
Heh, intelligence doesn't matter in baseball right!
Signed,
thelavarnwayguy
Something tells me there was a reason why Mr. Denny dropped in the draft during his senior year of HS. Possibly he developed a close friendship with alchohol.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 14, 2014 17:49:23 GMT -5
Anyone else get a chuckle when Denney claimed to play for the Boston red sox and make 3 million a year? Like where did he get the 3 million number from?
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Jon Denney
Mar 14, 2014 18:29:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 14, 2014 18:29:30 GMT -5
He was drunk so from there.
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Post by burythehammer on Mar 14, 2014 20:59:33 GMT -5
We're also taking a police report as gospel, btw.
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Post by kylecleric on Mar 14, 2014 21:10:21 GMT -5
He's 19. Dumb kid needs to grow up. Now that's a headline.
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Jon Denney
Mar 14, 2014 22:01:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bluechip on Mar 14, 2014 22:01:13 GMT -5
We're also taking a police report as gospel, btw. Obviously not admissible in court, but why would the police lie In This situation? Anyway, I see nothing about him being drunk in that story. I simply see him being an *** to officers.
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Post by njsox on Mar 14, 2014 22:35:03 GMT -5
I don't doubt the story of Denney (or maybe I do) but I would like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt before assassinating his character based solely upon what police supposedly said that he supposedly said. It's just as likely that the cops embellished this story as it is that Denney is this big of a douche-bag
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Jon Denney
Mar 14, 2014 23:00:22 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bluechip on Mar 14, 2014 23:00:22 GMT -5
I don't doubt the story of Denney (or maybe I do) but I would like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt before assassinating his character based solely upon what police supposedly said that he supposedly said. It's just as likely that the cops embellished this story as it is that Denney is this big of a douche-bag Why would they embellish? Has Denney denied it? I really don't think it's that big a deal, to be honest. Yell at him, dock him a few game checks, keep an eye on him, assign him a mentor, give him a curfew, but I wouldn't do anything drastic.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 14, 2014 23:35:04 GMT -5
Bottom line, the hole he was in just got a lot deeper. For any prospect in his position a week ago, the odds of making the majors is low. Now, it's mind staggeringly low. The good news is that when it's over, McDonalds is always looking for fresh faces.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 14, 2014 23:48:35 GMT -5
I post the following neither condoning nor condemning Denney's actions, but rather to inform the discussion.
But note that the ramifications of this incident could run the gamut all the way from Jon Egan to Clay Buchholz, which is to say... it pretty much tells us nothing about what he does from here. (If you don't know what I'm talking about in either instance, use the Google machine.)
Also, fwiw:
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 7h Talked very briefly to #RedSox prospect Jon Denney, the subject of arrest reports. "A lot of that is some crap," he said.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 15, 2014 4:46:22 GMT -5
The technical situation is more analogous to Exposito but to me the character issues seem more analogous to Austin Bailey. Would Expo have made it with Austin's character ?
In it's very best light, this is a major contrast to Garin Cecchini and Noe Ramirez.
Edited....
Prediction: third base.
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Post by sarasoxer on Mar 15, 2014 6:22:28 GMT -5
"Momma told me there'd be days like this...."
There is more here than just a guy picked up for driving with a restricted license. Is this guy a "Belieber"?
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Post by godot on Mar 15, 2014 6:47:24 GMT -5
The Sox will have to sort this out. Yeah, the story did not indicate he was drunk, and local cops can be a tad rough, especially when provoked, but the story suggested a previous DUI and other issues. Does he have a drinking problem? Is he somewhat adrift, which is not unusual for a kid his age. This is also a kid who was use to success playing ball at high school, but has hit some speed bumps. Sometimes the biggest challenge for a young player is dealing with failure. Regardless, this incident may be a blessing in disguise, if he is willing to recognize his problems.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Mar 15, 2014 7:07:48 GMT -5
I post the following neither condoning nor condemning Denney's actions, but rather to inform the discussion. But note that the ramifications of this incident could run the gamut all the way from Jon Egan to Clay Buchholz, which is to say... it pretty much tells us nothing about what he does from here. (If you don't know what I'm talking about in either instance, use the Google machine.) Also, fwiw: Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 7h Talked very briefly to #RedSox prospect Jon Denney, the subject of arrest reports. "A lot of that is some crap," he said. The Red Sox and Denney's agent needs to reel him in and get him a mentor to avoid these types of situations going forward. He also should not be talking to the media or anyone about this incident as it just fans the flames. He is 19 and he is going to make mistakes. Let's hope he gets his s--t together and focuses on improving his skills going forward.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Mar 15, 2014 7:36:17 GMT -5
I don't doubt the story of Denney (or maybe I do) but I would like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt before assassinating his character based solely upon what police supposedly said that he supposedly said. It's just as likely that the cops embellished this story as it is that Denney is this big of a douche-bag Why would they embellish? Has Denney denied it? I really don't think it's that big a deal, to be honest. Yell at him, dock him a few game checks, keep an eye on him, assign him a mentor, give him a curfew, but I wouldn't do anything drastic. Arrest reports are ... well ... not exactly ironclad reports. It probably varies widely by jurisdiction, but the Britton "gave us a debit card instead of his license" story, for instance, is sort of a running joke among Florida defense attorneys (according to one of the FL attorneys I know) because it shows up so often in DUI reports. Cops want to get convictions or at least plea bargains for their cases, and they are certainly feeling oppositional to whomever they just arrested (for obvious reasons!), so it's definitely the case that arrest reports are routinely at the very least colored by those perceptions and sometimes with some extra colorful details stuck in there. Doesn't mean they aren't generally true, but you just gotta read them from a certain perspective ... there's likely a little truthiness among the truth. I agree with the rest of what you're saying, though ... don't think it's all that big a deal that Denney very likely acted like an insufferable punk, and the morally righteous preening that goes on whenever a prospect gets caught doing something bad is tiresome.
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Post by mtsquad on Mar 15, 2014 9:01:33 GMT -5
I thought the lad looked old for his age in his profile here last summer. Now I understand, the lads a drinker. That'll do it to you.
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Post by njsox on Mar 15, 2014 10:35:14 GMT -5
Why would they embellish? Has Denney denied it? I really don't think it's that big a deal, to be honest. Yell at him, dock him a few game checks, keep an eye on him, assign him a mentor, give him a curfew, but I wouldn't do anything drastic. Arrest reports are ... well ... not exactly ironclad reports. It probably varies widely by jurisdiction, but the Britton "gave us a debit card instead of his license" story, for instance, is sort of a running joke among Florida defense attorneys (according to one of the FL attorneys I know) because it shows up so often in DUI reports. Cops want to get convictions or at least plea bargains for their cases, and they are certainly feeling oppositional to whomever they just arrested (for obvious reasons!), so it's definitely the case that arrest reports are routinely at the very least colored by those perceptions and sometimes with some extra colorful details stuck in there. Doesn't mean they aren't generally true, but you just gotta read them from a certain perspective ... there's likely a little truthiness among the truth. I agree with the rest of what you're saying, though ... don't think it's all that big a deal that Denney very likely acted like an insufferable punk, and the morally righteous preening that goes on whenever a prospect gets caught doing something bad is tiresome. Agreed. Not saying any of it is untrue, just saying this is America where the innocent are to remain that way until proven guilty. It's not like we haven't seen news reports and/or police reports that have been entirely wrong in the past. All I'm saying is that we should wait until this plays out until we make judgments about this kid's character.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 15, 2014 11:09:12 GMT -5
How does the story indicate a previous DUI? There are several ways to get a suspended or restricted license. However, anyone driving on one is irresponsible, unless it's a legitimate emergency. Most 19 years olds are irresponsible though.
Will be interesting to see how they handle this. Needs to be done in a way to teach a lesson, but I don't believe in punishing a guy and retarding his development as a result. Does the team no good and from a Red Sox perspective it's about the team. It does need to be handled sternly though so there's a behavioral change that will be positive developmentally. It's not the Red Sox responsibility to make good people just good ball players. Being responsible does help someone be a better ball player than they would if they were irresponsible, in most instances.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 15, 2014 11:13:01 GMT -5
Also, getting a DUI, or even 2, doesn't necessarily indicate a drinking problem, in the traditional sense. I would guess the majority of the people who've drank have driven when they technically shouldn't have a bunch of times. It's very easy to get one when you're "fine" to drive, especially if you get unlucky and hit a check point. It's a big reason why I don't even risk it anymore.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 15, 2014 12:45:56 GMT -5
There seems to be a lot of confusion here so I'm going to try and clear it up a bit: How does the story indicate a previous DUI? "Denney produced a passport and an Arkansas license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes because of a previous DUI arrest." However, anyone driving on one is irresponsible, unless it's a legitimate emergency. Most 19 years olds are irresponsible though. I fully agree on both counts. However, his actions seem to go past the average 19 year old's irresponsibility. I'm sure we all had a friend or two at 19 who is equally irresponsible if the report is taken at face - but they would (hopefully) be in the minority. Also, getting a DUI, or even 2, doesn't necessarily indicate a drinking problem, in the traditional sense. I would guess the majority of the people who've drank have driven when they technically shouldn't have a bunch of times. It's very easy to get one when you're "fine" to drive, especially if you get unlucky and hit a check point. It's a big reason why I don't even risk it anymore. Also good points. The most important thing for a person to realize once they get a DUI, or any arrest for that matter, is that they made a poor decision (it may not be drinking related at all) that led to the arrest. If the person can identify said decision, and make a new conscious decision to alter the previous decision making, then they can arise better off from the result. Personally, I don't care about character issues. As a fan I care about character issues as I find much less enjoyment cheering for an A$$hole than I do for a high-character player; but I can understand if you don't feel the same way. We should all be concerned about character as it relates to him being a good teammate, a hard workers, able to stay out of trouble, etc. Teams spen A LOT of money assessing players' characters.[/quote] I do care about felonies though. I don't think this incident says anything about Denney's development as a baseball player but rather about his inability to be a functional member of society. Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but if guilty he should be in jail. Nobody has yet mentioned the possibility of a felony (unless you are assuming that he was drunk during these arrests - which may not be a huge jump). A first-time DUI is not a felony and will only become a felony if there is a second arrest or if there were additional crimes committed which would make it a felony case (vehicular manslaughter for instance). Something tells me there was a reason why Mr. Denny dropped in the draft during his senior year of HS. Possibly he developed a close friendship with alcohol. This is a good point as when there is smoke there's fire. If the DUI occurred before the draft then this could have, and should have, caused a large number of teams to lower him on their draft boards. I don't doubt the story of Denney (or maybe I do) but I would like to give the kid the benefit of the doubt before assassinating his character based solely upon what police supposedly said that he supposedly said. It's just as likely that the cops embellished this story as it is that Denney is this big of a douche-bag Why would they embellish? Has Denney denied it? I really don't think it's that big a deal, to be honest. Yell at him, dock him a few game checks, keep an eye on him, assign him a mentor, give him a curfew, but I wouldn't do anything drastic. Chris posted Denney's partial denial, so I won't touch that. But here are two points to consider: 1. Would many police officer embellish their report to get someone back for hurting their feelings because they have big egos? Yes - not all, but this is fairly common 2. Would police officers normally lie about Denney driving twice within two hours on a suspended license? No - this would be a clear factual lie and most police wouldn't care enough, or be so stupid enough, to make this lie. This indicates that Denney may simply be an extremely arrogant kid or he may have a antisocial personality disorder. Let's hope that he's just an arrogant kid and he grows out of it. All of the above information was taken from the sources below and my own extensive first, second and third hand experience was added. Sorry about the long post - trying not to make it any longer with elaborations. -http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2014/03/red_sox_prospect_denney_arrested.html?rss_id=Top+Stories -Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 7h Talked very briefly to #RedSox prospect Jon Denney, the subject of arrest reports. "A lot of that is some crap," he said.
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Post by burythehammer on Mar 15, 2014 13:08:43 GMT -5
We're also taking a police report as gospel, btw. Obviously not admissible in court, but why would the police lie In This situation? They're police.
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