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Jon Denney
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 17, 2014 13:57:09 GMT -5
Unless you know him or were there, I just don't see how anyone thinks they have the complete picture on who he is and what he'll become because they read 3rd-hand information in an article. This is getting ridiculous.
Probably won't be long before someone mentions that he was probably hungover when playing last season.
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Post by raftsox on Mar 17, 2014 14:03:45 GMT -5
Any time an athlete has a run-in with the law regarding drugs or alcohol, some posters cannot wait to defend the substance abuse. Any time drug or alcohol abuse adversely affects one or more major areas of your life, you have a substance abuse problem. These "It never hurt me to take a drink before I was of legal age" and "Just because you had arrests arising from drinking does not mean you have a problem" posts say much more about the lifestyles of the posters and a desire to defend that lifestyle than they do about the reality of a young man who is about to blow his chance of being a successful professional athlete.This is the only pertinant thing in this entire thread. I'm not going to get into the argument of whether he has a substance abuse problem or not because I don't know him or the particulars of his regular use. I'm also not going to get into suppositions about his personality; again, because I don't know him. What I do know is that he has made several bad decisions in a short period of time that have effected his career. Hopefully, this will teach him some control and self-awareness which will lead him to become a successful major leaguer with the Red Sox. Side note to the poster who commented on his performance last season: A partial season in SSA means less than nothing. There are many players who play poorly for one reason or another in the year they're signed. Additionally, it's hypocritical to believe that Denney is an ***hole and has alcohol abuse problems because of the reported news, but to ignore other news reports where he clearly states that his poor performace last season was because of bad habits he developed from being pitched around all season in HS.
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Post by oilcansman on Mar 17, 2014 14:05:22 GMT -5
Unless you know him or were there, I just don't see how anyone thinks they have the complete picture on who he is and what he'll become because they read 3rd-hand information in an article. This is getting ridiculous. Really? So the Red Sox are setting up a program and getting him off the field for no reason? So the Red Sox shouldn't do anything because Cherington wasn't a first hand witness to what occurred?
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 17, 2014 14:09:05 GMT -5
Unless you know him or were there, I just don't see how anyone thinks they have the complete picture on who he is and what he'll become because they read 3rd-hand information in an article. This is getting ridiculous. Really? So the Red Sox are setting up a program and getting him off the field for no reason? So the Red Sox shouldn't do anything because Cherington wasn't a first hand witness to what occurred? That's quite a leap from what I said. The Red Sox at least are in a position to know a lot more than any of us do so I haven't and won't question their actions. But they're not telling us anything as they shouldn't, so we're left being just as clueless as we were.
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Post by oilcansman on Mar 17, 2014 14:41:12 GMT -5
jimed:
We're not clueless. It's pretty clear what's going on. It's pretty hard not to notice when Denney's behavior is documented in police reports, discussed by Ben Cherington, subject to sanctioning by the Red Sox and covered by national media.
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Post by raftsox on Mar 17, 2014 15:14:40 GMT -5
jimed: We're not clueless. It's pretty clear what's going on. It's pretty hard not to notice when Denney's behavior is documented in police reports, discussed by Ben Cherington, subject to sanctioning by the Red Sox and covered by national media. Yes, his actions tell us what happened. They do not tell us if he's an alcoholic or if he's an ***hole. Assumptions can be made, but that doesn't make them correct. From Yahoo sports: He wasn't arrested, this time, for drinking and driving.
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Post by Gwell55 on Mar 17, 2014 15:58:32 GMT -5
Where is all this drinking/dui ending up... wasn't he being pulled over the first time and tried to throw out a bottle of whiskey he had in his car? Seems to me when your underage here if your blood alcohol is over .02 that is the license suspended and juvenile dui which isn't the same as an adult dui. Also when he threw the bottle out where did it say he threw it at a car... all I saw was it landed near a car on the road and that isn't throwing at. The latest incidence he wasn't drunk or they would of busted him for that and I don't see any mention their either. He has some issues to work out to grow up but it sure seems the internet is blowing them way out of shape.
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Post by azblue on Mar 17, 2014 16:46:44 GMT -5
www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alcoholism/basics/definition/con-20020866 There is insufficient evidence to label Jon Denney as an alcoholic, but there is clear evidence that he is a "problem drinker" and a possibility that he is a "binge drinker." From the Mayo Clinic website: Alcoholism is a chronic and often progressive disease that includes problems controlling your drinking, being preoccupied with alcohol, continuing to use alcohol even when it causes problems, having to drink more to get the same effect (physical dependence), or having withdrawal symptoms when you rapidly decrease or stop drinking. If you have alcoholism, you can't consistently predict how much you'll drink, how long you'll drink, or what consequences will occur from your drinking. It's possible to have a problem with alcohol, even when it has not progressed to the point of alcoholism. Problem drinking means you drink too much at times, causing repeated problems in your life, although you're not completely dependent on alcohol. Binge drinking — a pattern of drinking where a male consumes five or more drinks in a row, or a female downs at least four drinks in a row — can lead to the same health risks and social problems associated with alcoholism. The more you drink, the greater the risks. Binge drinking, which often occurs with teenagers and young adults, may lead to faster development of alcoholism. If you have alcoholism or you have a problem with alcohol, you may not be able to cut back or quit without help. Denying that you have a problem is usually part of alcoholism and other types of excessive drinking.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 17, 2014 20:44:17 GMT -5
Any time an athlete has a run-in with the law regarding drugs or alcohol, some posters cannot wait to defend the substance abuse. Any time drug or alcohol abuse adversely affects one or more major areas of your life, you have a substance abuse problem. These "It never hurt me to take a drink before I was of legal age" and "Just because you had arrests arising from drinking does not mean you have a problem" posts say much more about the lifestyles of the posters and a desire to defend that lifestyle than they do about the reality of a young man who is about to blow his chance of being a successful professional athlete. No, no they don't. Without reading back through the entire thread, I feel comfortable saying that at the very least the majority, if not all the posters you're referring to aren't defending his bad behavior. They are trying to point out there are other things to consider rather than just jumping to a conclusion like Denney is an alcoholic or has a substance abuse problem, etc. Substance abuse can be a tricky thing and it's a pretty strong label that can mean a lot of different things. However, when putting that label to someone without any clarification, it's going to be taken like he's being called out for having an uncontrollable drinking issue. Which we don't know to be the case at all. The overall point is no one should be labeling anyone with the information at hand. We shouldn't label Denney as someone with a substance abuse issue or an alcoholic. We shouldn't label posters as living poor lifestyles... and we shouldn't label you as being holier-than-thou because you called out other posters for having some sort of poor lifestyle... Some things that are clear, at this point, are Denney has made bad choices and he shouldn't be drinking again for a long time because: a) he's only 19 and b) he needs to completely focus himself on his career. He has an opportunity many would kill for. His only job is to take care of himself and play baseball. Alcohol is not healthy (glass of red wine aside) and a professional athlete gets paid to take care of themselves and perform on the field. I'm not saying professional athletes should never drink, but it shouldn't be that much and it should be in moderation when they do, if they are truly doing what's best for themselves and their careers.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 17, 2014 21:12:38 GMT -5
Where is all this drinking/dui ending up... wasn't he being pulled over the first time and tried to throw out a bottle of whiskey he had in his car? Seems to me when your underage here if your blood alcohol is over .02 that is the license suspended and juvenile dui which isn't the same as an adult dui. Also when he threw the bottle out where did it say he threw it at a car... all I saw was it landed near a car on the road and that isn't throwing at. The latest incidence he wasn't drunk or they would of busted him for that and I don't see any mention their either. He has some issues to work out to grow up but it sure seems the internet is blowing them way out of shape. These are 2 separate incidents. He was a arrested for a DUI on a different occasion than the below arrest: "He was arrested on Dec. 7, 2013, in Washington County, Ark., for disorderly conduct, minor in possession of alcohol and littering after police said they witnessed Denney throwing a bottle of Malibu Black Rum into oncoming traffic." espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/10614399/jon-denney-boston-red-sox-prospect-disciplined-following-arrestWhere did you read about the above incident? This is the first I've heard of it.
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Post by mrnewengland on Mar 18, 2014 8:24:40 GMT -5
So the guy likes to party...
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Post by jrffam05 on Mar 18, 2014 10:08:27 GMT -5
Well I am done reading this thread for the foreseeable future.
Not trying to defend Denney. He made a series of bad decisions. Does it speak to his maturity level? Yea, it probably says something, but I still say we really don't have the context to judge his character, and how he will handle this moving forward. Reading debates on if he has a drinking problem or not reminds me of the conversations you would overhear in high school homeroom when a bunch of girls would group together and talk about rumors. The story of an underage kid getting caught drinking alcohol is not new, and in some states a minor can get a DUI or cited from any trace of alcohol. The same could have easily happened to me 100 times at age 17-20. I don't think I would of talked trash to cops, but go back in time and give me 900K and put me in Florida with a little bit of fame, I think I can get there. The question isn't who this kid is now, the question is who will this kid be, and right now we don't have the information to judge. Something like this could even be beneficial to a kid like Denney. Like I said, time will tell, speculation won't.
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Post by jmei on Mar 18, 2014 10:17:32 GMT -5
Let's try to steer this thread away from the semantics of whether he has an alcohol problem or Denney's personal character. Instead, focus on how this incident might affect Denney's on-field development and his future in the Boston Red Sox organization. Thanks.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2014 13:35:23 GMT -5
This incident might slow his development and make it harder for him to make the majors.
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Post by amfox1 on Mar 18, 2014 16:59:44 GMT -5
This incident might slow his development and make it harder for him to make the majors. Deep thoughts. At this point, it's not hard to envision Denney travelling along the Austin Bailey/Jon Egan road to oblivion. Not all of these stories end as well as Drake Britton's (thus far, knock on wood). One big difference favoring the Bailey/Egan outcome is that Britton was far enough along in his development to have people in the organization knock some sense into him; I think it is harder to "get religion" when you are less than a year out of high school and have no idea how hard minor league ball can be. Hope I'm wrong. My guess is that Denney will have to be on his best behavior to get out of Fort Myers this summer.
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Jon Denney
Mar 18, 2014 18:17:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 18, 2014 18:17:14 GMT -5
Kukuk has righted the ship after his earlier incident.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 18, 2014 18:27:58 GMT -5
Bailey and Egan had problems not just with legal troubles, but authority and structure in general. They simply couldn't handle the lifestyle of being professional baseball players.
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Post by curiousle on Mar 18, 2014 19:13:49 GMT -5
We need the season(s) to get underway so that we can put these kind of things behind us and get back to looking constructively at the farm system and the players who are making progress.
Egan, Bailey, Blue,...the sad reality is that there will always be a Jon Denney who for no reason ends up pissing it all away-these problems would exist for him even if he wasn't a professional ballplayer. These are problems that 'dog' people no matter what they choose to do in life-I'm sure we all know someone from our work world who just doesn't get it either, no matter what you do you should be a pro (show up early, stay late, work at your craft, take feedback, work to improve-the challenge is there are a lot of people who don't feel that way....
The Red Sox are a very good organization, they'll isolate this issue and get it under control and give him an opportunity to change this, however, I suspect the leash won't be long and the organization won't let a player continue to act in this behavior and make the organization look bad, I suspect they'll move on pretty quickly if they don't see a repentant and changed individual.
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Post by hockeypuck2008 on Mar 19, 2014 2:48:19 GMT -5
Well lets just remember when Buchholz was the same age he was stealing 29 laptops from a middle school. Denney has maturity problems but what 19 year olds don't? Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Mar 19, 2014 6:22:49 GMT -5
Well lets just remember when Buchholz was the same age he was stealing 29 laptops from a middle school. Denney has maturity problems but what 19 year olds don't? Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here. Lots of 19-year-olds don't. Denney looks to be pretty far on the "wild" end of the maturity scale. It is quite possible that his behavior and his attitudes could ruin whatever chance he has/had of becoming a valuable professional baseball player. Heck, at this point it appears that he isn't thinking all that much about optimizing his professional development, and maybe he simply doesn't care all that much about optimizing his development. It is an attitude he may deeply regret in 20 years -- or maybe 20 months. But regretting that you didn't take a different path at some point in your life is much more common to human existence than being a "bad boy."
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Post by oilcansman on Mar 19, 2014 14:54:04 GMT -5
His development already is being truncated by this problem as he's not on the field. As it is, the odds are against any prospect making it the MLB; at to that a behavioral and drinking problem at things become pretty bleak.
Hopefully, he'll make some smart decisions and do well outside of baseball.
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Post by p23w on Mar 19, 2014 17:31:36 GMT -5
Well lets just remember when Buchholz was the same age he was stealing 29 laptops from a middle school. Denney has maturity problems but what 19 year olds don't? Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here. +1
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Jon Denney
Mar 19, 2014 21:39:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by moonstone2 on Mar 19, 2014 21:39:55 GMT -5
Well lets just remember when Buchholz was the same age he was stealing 29 laptops from a middle school. Denney has maturity problems but what 19 year olds don't? Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here. I think what a player does as a youth can sometimes can give an insight into issues he'll face on his path to the majors. In Buccholz case, my understanding is that he followed his friends. It wasn't his idea to take the laptops but he didn't say no either. What that showed at the time was that Buccholz had trouble with adverse situations. That certainly hindered his development. We all can remember games where at key moments, Buccholz looked like he was going to cry. He's improved somewhat. Maybe getting married helped. But you can argue that maturity issues dog him even today. In Denny's case I am most worried that he seems very entitled. He doesn't seem to understand that he won't get to the majors on his pedigree alone. No one cares how big a bonus he got. Denny's career has been on the downswing for over a year now. Yet he still thinks his ticket to the majors is already written. Let's hope that this incident wakes him up and he starts to haul ass on the field and off. Time moves pretty quickly and soon his bonus will be gone. Hopefully for his sake it's not too late.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 19, 2014 23:26:16 GMT -5
Well lets just remember when Buchholz was the same age he was stealing 29 laptops from a middle school. Denney has maturity problems but what 19 year olds don't? Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here. I think what a player does as a youth can sometimes can give an insight into issues he'll face on his path to the majors. In Buccholz case, my understanding is that he followed his friends. It wasn't his idea to take the laptops but he didn't say no either. What that showed at the time was that Buccholz had trouble with adverse situations. That certainly hindered his development. We all can remember games where at key moments, Buccholz looked like he was going to cry. He's improved somewhat. Maybe getting married helped. But you can argue that maturity issues dog him even today. In Denny's case I am most worried that he seems very entitled. He doesn't seem to understand that he won't get to the majors on his pedigree alone. No one cares how big a bonus he got. Denny's career has been on the downswing for over a year now. Yet he still thinks his ticket to the majors is already written. Let's hope that this incident wakes him up and he starts to haul ass on the field and off. Time moves pretty quickly and soon his bonus will be gone. Hopefully for his sake it's not too late. +1 - well said. I, too, think Buchholz was more of a follower - more dumb than devious. Denny has been downright arrogant. He needs a serious wakeup call. Hope he heeds it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 20, 2014 0:54:25 GMT -5
I recall that in between the draft and the offer, Buccholz was flown to Boston to have a one on one with Theo. I'm pretty sure that Clay's after the event attitude was significantly different than Jon's attitude. These are not at all similar situations.
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