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Jon Denney
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Post by greatscottcooper on Mar 15, 2014 13:10:44 GMT -5
We don't really know EXACTLY what happened. Do police embellish police reports? I can tell you first hand they do. But my instincts tell me there is a reason why that is happening, Denney may have said something to aggravate the police officers which may have made them report the incident in a more dramatic fashion. But to me, that means at least some of that report has to be true; which I still don't know for fact but seems logical to me. So yes Police can be D-Bags and make crap up, but if that story was 100% true or 90% true does Denney seem like the kind of guy that might lie about it as well!?!
In terms of him being an alcoholic, I agree that getting a dui is NOT indicative of such. People drink all the time who are not alcoholics and they can get DUI's. I don't drink and drive anymore, but when I did it was a night I only had a few beers I actually got a DUI. To me, it is more indicative of poor judgment than a drinking problem. Yes people who are alcoholics are probably more likely to get DUI's and may have multiple, but this doesn't really mean anything in terms of Denney having a problem....small sample size if you will : )
In the end, I'm much much more interested in HOW Denney responds to this and what he does over the next couple years than I am in how he got here.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,990
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Post by jimoh on Mar 15, 2014 14:02:05 GMT -5
Mar 15, 2014 13:45:56 GMT -4 wcsoxfan said: There seems to be a lot of confusion here so I'm going to try and clear it up a bit:
.. "Denney produced a passport and an Arkansas license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes because of a previous DUI arrest."
Wow, the story I see says "Denney furnished a license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes after an **alleged* DUI in Arkansas." Were you looking at a different story or did it change online?
The phrase "an alleged DUI" sounds like he was pulled over for apparent DUI but refused a breathalyzer or maybe even any sobriety test, in a jurisdiction in which that means you have to lose your license, or I suppose lose you license except for work and emergencies.
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alnipper
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Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Mar 15, 2014 15:28:07 GMT -5
The Red Sox may be prudent to give him a drug and alcohol assessment.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 15, 2014 15:37:45 GMT -5
Mar 15, 2014 13:45:56 GMT -4 wcsoxfan said: There seems to be a lot of confusion here so I'm going to try and clear it up a bit: .. "Denney produced a passport and an Arkansas license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes because of a previous DUI arrest." Wow, the story I see says "Denney furnished a license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes after an **alleged* DUI in Arkansas." Were you looking at a different story or did it change online? The phrase "an alleged DUI" sounds like he was pulled over for apparent DUI but refused a breathalyzer or maybe even any sobriety test, in a jurisdiction in which that means you have to lose your license, or I suppose lose you license except for work and emergencies. A DUI in which he was punished is a conviction and refusing a breathalyzer doesn't create a lesser charge unless you have a good lawyer and you plead to lesser charge. In that case it would not be a DUI but most likely a 'wet reckless' which has a lesser punishment. An alleged DUI and a DUI arrest is the same thing. The only issue at hand is conviction/plea and that has more to do with his lawyer than whatever he did. His license being suspended for work use only is a common result of a conviction/plea, in most states this lasts for 6-12 months after the conviction/plea is reached. "Denney produced a passport and an Arkansas license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes because of a previous DUI arrest." Is quoted from the Peter Abraham article I listed at the bottom of the original post - again listed here: www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2014/03/red_sox_prospect_denney_arrested.html?rss_id=Top+Stories
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Jon Denney
Mar 15, 2014 16:01:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stevedillard on Mar 15, 2014 16:01:59 GMT -5
I read it simply as the fla police report stating he list his license due to a DUI in another state. A cautious editor then notes that they have not independently verified that he had been arrested, so threw in the word alleged.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 15, 2014 16:07:01 GMT -5
Jason Mastrodonato ?@jmastrodonato 16m Ben Cherington on Jon Denney: "we're putting together a program for Jon... He's not likely to be on the field for a whil
Michael Silverman ?@mikesilvermanbb 8m #redSox not releasing Denney. Putting together program to address his needs, said Cherington. He's remorseful. Will be offfield for awhile
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 15, 2014 16:18:05 GMT -5
Mar 15, 2014 13:45:56 GMT -4 wcsoxfan said: There seems to be a lot of confusion here so I'm going to try and clear it up a bit: .. "Denney produced a passport and an Arkansas license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes because of a previous DUI arrest." Wow, the story I see says "Denney furnished a license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes after an **alleged* DUI in Arkansas." Were you looking at a different story or did it change online? The phrase "an alleged DUI" sounds like he was pulled over for apparent DUI but refused a breathalyzer or maybe even any sobriety test, in a jurisdiction in which that means you have to lose your license, or I suppose lose you license except for work and emergencies. A DUI in which he was punished is a conviction and refusing a breathalyzer doesn't create a lesser charge unless you have a good lawyer and you plead to lesser charge. In that case it would not be a DUI but most likely a 'wet reckless' which has a lesser punishment. An alleged DUI and a DUI arrest is the same thing. The only issue at hand is conviction/plea and that has more to do with his lawyer than whatever he did. His license being suspended for work use only is a common result of a conviction/plea, in most states this lasts for 6-12 months after the conviction/plea is reached. "Denney produced a passport and an Arkansas license that was restricted for business and emergency purposes because of a previous DUI arrest." Is quoted from the Peter Abraham article I listed at the bottom of the original post - again listed here: www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2014/03/red_sox_prospect_denney_arrested.html?rss_id=Top+StoriesNow I can see why this kid slid down to the second round. He's not exactly off the charts with his makeup - is he? Xander Bogaerts' maturity this guy certainly doesn't have. He strikes me as an egotistical kid with an alcohol problem and it makes me question his work ethic to improve as a player. He has some serious growing up to do. I agree with wcsoxfan that it's hard to root for a kid like this. I'd rather root for somebody without his ability but through sheer dedication and hard work makes the most of his opportunity. Hopefully this kid doesn't go the way of the Padres prospect (believe his name was Matt Bush), but I'm not optimistic. It'll be interesting to find out what kind of program Ben C is putting together for him.
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Post by azblue on Mar 15, 2014 19:53:39 GMT -5
Third round
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Post by elguapo on Mar 15, 2014 21:50:00 GMT -5
Now let's just wait and see how he responds, Britton seemed to learn his lesson. Hopefully this is Denney's wake up call. The progression so far isn't good: 1?. DUI, suspended license 2?. Arrested for disorderly conduct etc 3. Busted driving with suspended license 4. Immediately busted driving with suspended license again, opens his mouth and crap for brains falls out 5. Asked by reporter, says it's a bunch of crap Nothing there to hint of any change in perspective. Even after his 4th recent incident, his reaction was to diss the cops. That doesn't sound like a guy who is anywhere close to waking up and taking responsibility for his actions. At this point, he's not just a world class jerk, he's also a habitual criminal who deserves jail time. Denney doesn't need alcohol counseling, PR classes, reprimands, he needs to be handed over to Chuck Norris for a full reconditioning.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 15, 2014 22:14:40 GMT -5
The progression so far isn't good: 1?. DUI, suspended license 2?. Arrested for disorderly conduct etc 3. Busted driving with suspended license 4. Immediately busted driving with suspended license again, opens his mouth and crap for brains falls out 5. Asked by reporter, says it's a bunch of crap Nothing there to hint of any change in perspective. Even after his 4th recent incident, his reaction was to diss the cops. That doesn't sound like a guy who is anywhere close to waking up and taking responsibility for his actions. At this point, he's not just a world class jerk, he's also a habitual criminal who deserves jail time. Denney doesn't need alcohol counseling, PR classes, reprimands, he needs to be handed over to Chuck Norris for a full reconditioning. He was arrested on Dec. 7, 2013, in Washington County, Ark., for disorderly conduct, minor in possession of alcohol and littering after police said they witnessed Denney throwing a bottle of Malibu Black Rum into oncoming traffic. Wow - didn't even know about #2; thanks for the post. The below quote doesn't look good (appears that he has been arrested in at least 2 - probably 3 - different states). Agree completely. Looks like he needs a lot of work before we worry about the baseball part of it. "He was arrested on Dec. 7, 2013, in Washington County, Ark., for disorderly conduct, minor in possession of alcohol and littering after police said they witnessed Denney throwing a bottle of Malibu Black Rum into oncoming traffic." espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/10614399/jon-denney-boston-red-sox-prospect-disciplined-following-arrest"Cherington said the organization was not aware of any issues Denney had when it selected the 19-year-old catcher in the third round of last year's draft" Have to wonder if the above quote is true or if Cherington doesn't want to admit that they took a gamble on a messed up kid in the third round (not saying this is a bad idea - but the PR may not look so great).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 15, 2014 23:03:59 GMT -5
Ah, that's right. They drafted Stankiewicz in the second round.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 15, 2014 23:37:40 GMT -5
So, who's prospect #61 ?
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Post by GyIantosca on Mar 16, 2014 13:13:04 GMT -5
Wow that police dept. is on high alert when the Sox start spring training. Thank God that nobody was injured or killed. I just saw a good catch from Tampa's outfielder to rob a hit. That crap is no joke drinking and driving. Maybe since these kids are young the Sox should implement a driving service if not offered already. The kids health and well being is most important. I hope he takes this opportunity and run with it.
Wow nice grab Holt.
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Post by elguapo on Mar 17, 2014 8:36:04 GMT -5
The progression so far isn't good: 1?. DUI, suspended license 2?. Arrested for disorderly conduct etc Wow - didn't even know about #2; thanks for the post. To clarify, we have confirmation on #2 but I haven't seen a report on the DUI/suspension incident; I'm assuming they were two distinct events.
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Post by jrffam05 on Mar 17, 2014 9:01:55 GMT -5
Who here never drank at the age of 19?
I don't think this story tells us enough about Denney. He could be an ***hole, or he could be a normal kid who was caught in an ***hole moment(s). We really don't know his character. I think it could up working out well for Denney if he is humbled and refocuses on baseball. Time will tell, speculation won't.
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Post by stevedillard on Mar 17, 2014 9:10:52 GMT -5
No, the story tells us enough. Once arrested for a DUI, you toe the line. Once arrested for throwing bottles at cars, you toe the line. That means if you are pulled over twice for using a limited permit, you "yes sir" and "no sir" the cop, rather than escalate the situation. This isn't an immediate situation in which someone else escalatated. He did, while under the cloud of a prior invovlement. That's beyond being an asshole.
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Post by ramireja on Mar 17, 2014 9:49:25 GMT -5
Who here never drank at the age of 19? I don't think this story tells us enough about Denney. He could be an ***hole, or he could be a normal kid who was caught in an ***hole moment(s). We really don't know his character. I think it could up working out well for Denney if he is humbled and refocuses on baseball. Time will tell, speculation won't. C'mon dude, this conversation isn't about underage drinking....don't be ridiculous. You don't think we have enough from this story and series of events to make a character judgment? Just out of curiosity, what would it take?
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,827
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Post by steveofbradenton on Mar 17, 2014 9:54:14 GMT -5
Boy what a sad tale. I met his mom last GCL season in Port Charlotte, and she was down in Florida from Oklahoma for a week or two to support Jon. She, of course, was proud and they were both pleased with being selected by the Red Sox and disappointed by his being selected so low (3rd round). It is always so hard on parents and family when their child does something so stupid. Hopefully we hear again from Jon Denny and it is good news.
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Post by sarasoxer on Mar 17, 2014 10:31:22 GMT -5
No, the story tells us enough. Once arrested for a DUI, you toe the line. Once arrested for throwing bottles at cars, you toe the line. That means if you are pulled over twice for using a limited permit, you "yes sir" and "no sir" the cop, rather than escalate the situation. This isn't an immediate situation in which someone else escalatated. He did, while under the cloud of a prior invovlement. That's beyond being an asshole. Yup. Couldn't agree more. The fact that he fell to the third round carries some suspicion as to either his perceived make-up or on field performance. Regarding the latter I was not impressed with his throwing or batting in the SSS last summer in the GCL. Obviously we hope the story ends well but it needs a re-write before going to the publisher.
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Post by okin15 on Mar 17, 2014 10:40:05 GMT -5
"Cherington said the organization was not aware of any issues Denney had when it selected the 19-year-old catcher in the third round of last year's draft" Have to wonder if the above quote is true or if Cherington doesn't want to admit that they took a gamble on a messed up kid in the third round (not saying this is a bad idea - but the PR may not look so great). I think it's worse that the Sox didn't know. They should know this kind of stuff, at least before they sign the kid if not before they draft him. I mean, what a great way to get the price down. As for him being an ***, he does seem to be, doesn't mean he can't change. I mean, he has to change or he's not going to succeed in life.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 17, 2014 12:28:51 GMT -5
Were any of the incidents in question prior to the Sox signing him?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 17, 2014 12:41:46 GMT -5
Who here never drank at the age of 19? I don't think this story tells us enough about Denney. He could be an ***hole, or he could be a normal kid who was caught in an ***hole moment(s). We really don't know his character. I think it could up working out well for Denney if he is humbled and refocuses on baseball. Time will tell, speculation won't. C'mon dude, this conversation isn't about underage drinking....don't be ridiculous. You don't think we have enough from this story and series of events to make a character judgment? Just out of curiosity, what would it take? Exactly. No need to make up excuses for him. As popular as drinking is not all of us were drinking at 19 and most of us weren't getting pulled over for DUI, and most of us weren't being belligerent with police officers. He has an attitude problem in addition to his drinking issue. Fortunately for him he'll get a chance to turn his life around. Hope he seizes the opportunity and doesn't let his oversized ego and undersized brain get in the way.
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Post by oilcansman on Mar 17, 2014 13:15:55 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. I'm fascinated that some of people here can't see that Denney has a drinking problem. Those who have or a close to people who do see it pretty clearly. The Red Sox obviously see it - hence their decision to put Denney on the sidelines, get an assessment of him and put together a program. Very responsible. The last thing this kid needs right now is the pressure of baseball. I feel terrible for the parents. They've probably been dealing with this from him for a few years.
The kid is clearly worth saving but they've got to let him know if he continues to drink his career will end. He also needs to become a Friend of Bill. AA can do miracles.
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Post by azblue on Mar 17, 2014 13:36:24 GMT -5
Any time an athlete has a run-in with the law regarding drugs or alcohol, some posters cannot wait to defend the substance abuse. Any time drug or alcohol abuse adversely affects one or more major areas of your life, you have a substance abuse problem. These "It never hurt me to take a drink before I was of legal age" and "Just because you had arrests arising from drinking does not mean you have a problem" posts say much more about the lifestyles of the posters and a desire to defend that lifestyle than they do about the reality of a young man who is about to blow his chance of being a successful professional athlete.
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Post by elguapo on Mar 17, 2014 13:50:35 GMT -5
I'm fascinated that some of people here can't see that Denney has a drinking problem. Those who have or a close to people who do see it pretty clearly. It's possible, but drinking irresponsibly or illegally, being a jerk, and suffering performance declines do not necessarily validate an armchair diagnosis of alcoholism. In the latest incident, Denney was, seemingly, sober, since he was pulled over while driving and there was no mention that he was even given a sobriety test. Many alcoholics are insufferable or irrational when they've been drinking, but Denney is apparently insufferable, shows poor judgement & a rancid sense of entitlement sober.
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