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Napoli re-signs for 2/$32mm
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Post by elguapo on Dec 6, 2013 21:44:13 GMT -5
Yeah, maybe I'm cynical, but to me it's not really material for sainthood when a player - Napoli or Pierzynski - takes the shorter deal at much higher annual value - but it will fit into the favored media narrative for the yahoos so that's what we've got. Heck, Victorino did it last year.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 6, 2013 21:45:52 GMT -5
Sweet Ben, Now Boras get us another pick and get Drew signed somewhere.
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Post by jmei on Dec 6, 2013 22:16:41 GMT -5
Yeah, maybe I'm cynical, but to me it's not really material for sainthood when a player - Napoli or Pierzynski - takes the shorter deal at much higher annual value - but it will fit into the favored media narrative for the yahoos so that's what we've got. Heck, Victorino did it last year. Eh, since Napoli is going to be 34 at the end of this deal and still has that degenerative hip disease that can only be treated, not cured, that $3-6m in guaranteed money he passed up matters a little to me. It's not especially likely that he'll get that kind of contract in 2016, though you're right that it's not that much of a sacrifice on his part. The front office's focus on short-year, high-AAV contracts is interesting to me. I think they recognize that teams generally hesitate to jettison overpaid, aging veterans, and so it's better to preemptively clear that roster spot and encourage roster turnover.
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Post by rangoon82 on Dec 6, 2013 22:20:00 GMT -5
Really want Drew to sign elsewhere now so the Sox get another pick. Besides its Xander time.
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Post by mainesox on Dec 6, 2013 22:24:01 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not too fond of this. I like that it's only two year, and it's cool that he was willing to take less to come here, but he's still not my first choice even at two years (also, we just gave up a pick for two years of a player, which I'm never a fan of), and that AAV probably just about gets you Choo.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 6, 2013 22:24:46 GMT -5
Rob Bradford @bradfo When looked like Texas might be in lead for Napoli today, large group of Red Sox players urged for front office to make push. They did.
Just speaks to how important he is to the team and how he is viewed in the room.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 6, 2013 22:31:00 GMT -5
I would have signed Hart instead... but failing that, the trade acquisition cost for a Belt type could have been quite high and we still have those chips to 'spend'. Hard to say how high the bidding could go on Choo.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 6, 2013 23:01:45 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not too fond of this. I like that it's only two year, and it's cool that he was willing to take less to come here, but he's still not my first choice even at two years (also, we just gave up a pick for two years of a player, which I'm never a fan of), and that AAV probably just about gets you Choo. Napoli is a fine player, but I am not going to be ecstatic about paying him 16,000,000 per year. It's not a back breaking deal, but that strike out rate and BABIP are concerning.
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Post by azblue on Dec 6, 2013 23:02:30 GMT -5
Hart plus a high draft pick for losing Napoli was an attractive alternative to re-signing Napoli.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2013 23:04:51 GMT -5
Indications were Hart preferred MIL if things were close money wise so we have to stop acting like this was a likely alternative.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,936
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 6, 2013 23:05:55 GMT -5
Awesome. It's great to wake up at 7 PM, have breakfast, and then go online to find great news about the team.
The lineup needed a RHB to hit behind Pedroia and Ortiz -- not to protect Papi, but to knock them both in, and to be able to do so against elite starting pitching. The only credible alternative I could find to Napoli was trading for Jose Bautista, and I hope they explored that thoroughly, because at the right price that's a much better solution. But the price would almost certainly have been too high.
I said long ago that the Sox should offer Napoli 2/$30 (IIRC) with a vesting option for a third year, during the exclusive negotiating period. They probably didn't bother because they knew Napoli would turn them down, because no matter how much he was committed to returning here, testing the waters can't hurt. So his willingness to do so earned him an extra $2M or so.
Looked at another way, this was essentially a retroactive re-negotiation of his original contract as 3/$45 rather than 3/$39, with the extra value deriving from his unexpected defensive prowess.
However, all that thinking about trading for a RH cleanup hitter has given me an appetite. So now I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that Bautsista and especially Giancarlo Stanton remain where they are, because there are scenarios where we can acquire one next winter (or at the dadline this year) without giving up Cecchini, Owens, or Swihart. Specifically, if Middlebrooks bounces back big-time but still looks like a lesser option to Cecchini, if Betts can match his 2013 and become an elite prospect, and/or if the young starting pitching collectively develops to the point where we have an elite prospect (or Lackey at MLB minimum) to burn, we'll be in an incredible trading position. (The formula for the latter is two from the group of Workman, Ranaudo, Webster, Barnes, De La Rosa, Hinojosa, and Wright stepping up and looking like #2, or high-floor #3 starters. Not saying that's likely, but it's certainly possible.)
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Post by mainesox on Dec 6, 2013 23:06:53 GMT -5
Indications were Hart preferred MIL if things were close money wise so we have to stop acting like this was a likely alternative. It was a possible alternative, we have no idea what they would have been offering, or how much it would have taken to beat it. Also, Choo plus Nava or Carp (or LoMo) at 1B was also an alternative.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 6, 2013 23:17:33 GMT -5
God help any baseball fan that was in the jungle with no internet for a week...
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,936
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 6, 2013 23:17:52 GMT -5
Hart plus a high draft pick for losing Napoli was an attractive alternative to re-signing Napoli. Not just picking on you, but others who liked Hart ... Hart has essentially the same projections as Napoli (118 wRC+ versus 120), but those do not factor in the competitive imbalance between the NL Central of 2011-12 and the AL, which is really big. And, although I'm not going to bother to check now, it's highly unlikely that Hart has Napoli's highly unusual skill at hitting elite pitchers, a skill which may well have won us a WS this year by being the difference in ALCS Game 3. So it's a very likely offensive downgrade. Defensively, you've got the guy who was one of the two best in MLB last year, versus a guy with little experience who projects to be about -6. A big downgrade. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't putting the best team on the field a higher priority than acquiring draft picks? I was, in fact, under the impression that it was the goal.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2013 23:29:46 GMT -5
God help any baseball fan that was in the jungle with no internet for a week... Uh, how about my cousins who are on a cruise ship, and dont want to pay for internet!
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Post by elguapo on Dec 6, 2013 23:55:32 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't putting the best team on the field a higher priority than acquiring draft picks? I was, in fact, under the impression that it was the goal. Do you really need to make snide comments every time people disagree with your opinion? "But Napoli won a playoff game all by himself!" is not really a tremendous argument. What if he had had one fewer HR and one more K - as if that couldn't happen next time around? The Brewers are looking/hoping to get Hart relatively cheaply, I believe, and it's very likely he would have cost less than Napoli both in $ and talent (the pick). Even if Napoli's marginally better, the Sox could have used the $ and a current prospect (knowing they can refill talent pipeline next June) to upgrade at another position instead. How? Who knows? It seems there are moves to come on the trade front as it is. Reportedly the Sox were indeed considering Hart has a backup if Napoli was too expensive - which, seemingly, was a pretty near thing. What if the Rangers had upped their offer to 3x$15 and the Sox had gone with Hart - would you have lectured them on how stupid they were? Of course you would have.
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Post by ikonos on Dec 7, 2013 0:58:14 GMT -5
I think the fact that a large enough group of Sox players were concerned with the departure of Salty and Ellsbury and approached Farrell/Management inquiring if Sox is bringing back any of the remaining Sox FA's and the news that group of players implored the Sox to up their offer for Napoli is fascinating. I have not heard that kind of collective effort before and given that situation it is important for the Sox brass to listen to their concern and do something about it. I think it speaks for the cohesiveness of the team and Naploi gained that respect last year.
I was one of those guys in a jungle during the daytime with out internet but was keeping tabs once I get back to the hotel. Quite an interesting week for baseball.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Dec 7, 2013 0:58:28 GMT -5
I want to see what Hart gets before I call this a good deal. If Hart gets anything near Nap's deal, then I think it's a great deal for us.
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Post by jmei on Dec 7, 2013 0:59:25 GMT -5
I was maybe the biggest Hart advocate on the board and have previously posted my issues with Napoli's contact rates. But I do think Napoli is a pretty meaningful upgrade on Hart. The defensive difference between the two cannot be ignored and would be at least a win's worth. I also think the fact that Hart missed all of 2013 adds a lot of risk to his profile. Microfracture surgery is serious, traumatic business, and many athletes never recover fully from it. The risk of diminished performance (strong and healthy knees are important for swing mechanics) and future DL stints make Hart more of a question mark than Napoli's whiffs and hips (trademark pending) for me.
Yeah, Hart would have come $6m cheaper in 2014, come with an extra draft pick, and not required a commitment for 2015. But for an extra win's worth of defense and less risk, I think it's worth it. I don't think that $6m saved could be spent any more efficiently this offseason (Choo is a fine player, but is going to cost more than he's worth), and while the draft pick lost is a shame, there is something to be said about making the team as strong as possible while its still in the zone of contention (even if Eric, as always, has a way of saying it in a condescending tone).
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Dec 7, 2013 1:35:59 GMT -5
We should have let him walk and taken the pick. I'm not buying how great he was. I like the guy and am thankful for his effort but he is still a guy who will struggle to hit .250-.260 going forward and miss a ton of pitches. He is probably a 25 HR guy going forward with a .260 average at best. My bet is that Middlebrooks puts up better numbers next year. We could have used the same cash to sign other very valuable players which would have helped the team more while still retaining a very important draft pick.
I do grant that he was excellent defensively and a great clubhouse guy but sometimes it's best to just put him in the pantheon of Redsox heros and move on.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 7, 2013 1:43:54 GMT -5
God help any baseball fan that was in the jungle with no internet for a week... There's internet in the jungle.
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Post by jmei on Dec 7, 2013 1:45:39 GMT -5
He is probably a 25 HR guy going forward with a .260 average at best. My bet is that Middlebrooks puts up better numbers next year. I guess we're ignoring OBP.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 7, 2013 2:09:33 GMT -5
Now there's another shoe to drop before he's placed on the 40 man. At minimum Lavarnway to our trading buddies the Pirates (assuming they can fit in a 40 man).
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Dec 7, 2013 2:58:33 GMT -5
I think Middlebrooks comes back strong next year. I think a lot of his problems were injury related. He slugged .509 in 2012. I bet he outslugs Napoli in 2014 and hits for a better average as well, and is closer on obp than people are expecting.
The overall point was that the $16 mil we spent for Napoli would have come in real handy if spread over Rajai Davis, Michael Morse and a back up middle infielder or as a large part of what was needed for Choo, or to sign Beltran. Now we have no money and have to trade someone to even free up some.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Dec 7, 2013 2:59:40 GMT -5
I bet Lavarnway is in Pawtucket to start the year.
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